Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[Zao is life]

This is all private interpretation.

The dead body of Christ was in the grave for three days. But His spirit went immediately back to God in heaven. You therefore build your premise on a false assumption. Nowhere does it say His spirit was in Hades for 3 day, nor does it teach that Abrahams bosom is paradise.

Whether His spirit descended to Hades before or after His ascent to His Father is not clear. Scripture does not really give a detailed outline of this, thus so much speculation.

Where in Scripture teaches that Abrahams bosom is paradise? Give us heart Scripture! You know it is not there.

I have a question for you:

Does Acts 2:27 & 31, or Psalm 16:10-11 say that Christ's Spirit went to hades when His body died?

Acts 2:27:
Because thou wilt not leave my soul [psuche] in hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:31:
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul [psuche] was not left in hades, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Psalm 16:10-11
For thou wilt not leave my soul [nephesh] in sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Jesus was fully human: Body [soma], soul [psuche] and Spirit [pneuma].

According to scripture, His soul went to hades when His body died. His dead body was quickened by the Spirit of Christ / God, which is omnipresent:

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit [pneuma]:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The Spirit of God is omnipresent:
​

Psalm 139
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in sheol, behold, thou art there.

 

[WPM]

I have a question for you:

Does Acts 2:27 & 31, or Psalm 16:10-11 say that Christ's Spirit went to hades when His body died?

Acts 2:27:
Because thou wilt not leave my soul [psuche] in hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:31:
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul [psuche] was not left in hades, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Psalm 16:10-11
For thou wilt not leave my soul [nephesh] in sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Jesus was fully human: Body [soma], soul [psuche] and Spirit [pneuma].

According to scripture, His soul went to hades when His body died. His dead body was quickened by the Spirit of Christ / God, which is omnipresent:

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit [pneuma]:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The Spirit of God is omnipresent:
​

Psalm 139
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in sheol, behold, thou art there.

Did He go to hell for 3 days as you say?

As soon as Christ died it seems like there was a mass evacuation from Hades.

Ephesians 4:8-10 says, “when he (Christ) ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.).”

The result of this can be where the New Testament locates the dead in Christ after the victory of the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is this group that is called “captivity” here? It is those sinful men that would be set free by Christ’s victory over death. They were miserably bound in solid spiritual chains. They were imprisoned in a dark prison without any hope of pardon or release. Isaiah 14:17 succinctly tells us that Lucifer “opened not the house of his prisoner.” They had no ability to free themselves from their awful jail. With Christ’s triumphant resurrection, all those who bow the knee to Christ and His shed blood at Calvary are liberated from the ugly clutches of Satan.

Whilst they were captives of the devil from birth, they found in Christ an escape from their awful bondage. Christ indeed “led captivity captive” when He defeated Satan at the cross and rose victorious to the splendor of heaven. He confronted Lucifer on the believer’s behalf and roundly defeated him. He was their representative. Jesus paid their enormous debt the believer owed and took their sentence upon Himself. We are therefore the spoils of war. We are the trophies of His grace.

 

[WPM]

I have a question for you:

Does Acts 2:27 & 31, or Psalm 16:10-11 say that Christ's Spirit went to hades when His body died?

Acts 2:27:
Because thou wilt not leave my soul [psuche] in hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:31:
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul [psuche] was not left in hades, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Psalm 16:10-11
For thou wilt not leave my soul [nephesh] in sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Jesus was fully human: Body [soma], soul [psuche] and Spirit [pneuma].

According to scripture, His soul went to hades when His body died. His dead body was quickened by the Spirit of Christ / God, which is omnipresent:

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit [pneuma]:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The Spirit of God is omnipresent:
​

Psalm 139
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in sheol, behold, thou art there.

1 Peter 3:18-20 declares, "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

Some imagine that Christ descended into hell for three days and preached the Gospel to the wicked of Noah's day. The Bible doesn’t say that. I think it is simply saying that God spoke to those who were “disobedient” (or imprisoned spiritually) through Noah when he was building the ark. Anyway, we don’t need to speculate as to its fulfilment, it is in the text. It is expressly occurred in: “the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing.” Not only was Noah a righteous witness, he was also a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:6).

• This is not talking about hell. Hell is not mentioned.
• There is no mentioned of a 2nd chance. There never has been or ever will be.
• I believe it is talking about Christ speaking to the wicked by "the Spirit" through His servant Noah back thousands of years ago.
• The wicked are continually portrayed as being in a spiritual prison. This is what I believe it is saying.
• The result of the preaching in question is mentioned here – 8 converts. This is telling us that Noah and his family were the only response to the Gospel message “in the days of Noah.”

If 1 Peter 3:18-20 is speaking about Jesus descending into hell 2000 years ago to give the ignorant dead a second chance, and this is what happens to the ignorant dead, who is doing that at the moment? After all, we are looking at an actual event. Is Jesus continually leaving heaven to preach to a new generation of dead in hell?

 

[Zao is life]

Did He go to hell for 3 days as you say?

As soon as Christ died it seems like there was a mass evacuation from Hades.

Ephesians 4:8-10 says, “when he (Christ) ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.).”

The result of this can be where the New Testament locates the dead in Christ after the victory of the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is this group that is called “captivity” here? It is those sinful men that would be set free by Christ’s victory over death. They were miserably bound in solid spiritual chains. They were imprisoned in a dark prison without any hope of pardon or release. Isaiah 14:17 succinctly tells us that Lucifer “opened not the house of his prisoner.” They had no ability to free themselves from their awful jail. With Christ’s triumphant resurrection, all those who bow the knee to Christ and His shed blood at Calvary are liberated from the ugly clutches of Satan.

Whilst they were captives of the devil from birth, they found in Christ an escape from their awful bondage. Christ indeed “led captivity captive” when He defeated Satan at the cross and rose victorious to the splendor of heaven. He confronted Lucifer on the believer’s behalf and roundly defeated him. He was their representative. Jesus paid their enormous debt the believer owed and took their sentence upon Himself. We are therefore the spoils of war. We are the trophies of His grace.

You're not interested in scripture.

Firstly there was a resurrection the moment He rose and those people appeared in the holy city.

Secondly the only passage talking about Jesus ascending into heaven is the passage that tells us He ascended bodily 40 days after He was crucified. That is when the gifts could be given to men - and the gifts given to men came 10 days later on Pentecost.

If you want to argue about scripture and the historical facts of scripture to maintain your positions I'm done with talking about this with you.

Now GO AHEAD and say that I'm done with you "because I have nothing to bring to the table" and your usual blah blah blahs and false insinuations - because the reason I'm done with talking to you about this is because I'M DONE WITH YOUR ABUSE OF SCRIPTURE.

 

[WPM]

You're not interested in scripture.

Firstly there was a resurrection the moment He rose and those people appeared in the holy city.

Secondly the only passage talking about Jesus ascending into heaven is the passage that tells us He ascended bodily 40 days after He was crucified. That is when the gifts could be given to Lol. men - and the gifts given to men came 10 days later on Pentecost.

If you want to argue about scripture and the historical facts of scripture to maintain your positions I'm done with talking about this with you.

Now GO AHEAD and say that I'm done with you "because I have nothing to bring to the table" and your usual blah blah blahs and false insinuations - because the reason I'm done with talking to you about this is because I'M DONE WITH YOUR ABUSE OF SCRIPTURE.

Yea right!

Why not just be honest? You have no answer to the biblical evidence. I obviously suitably refuted your claims.

 

[Scott Downey]

This is all private interpretation.

The dead body of Christ was in the grave for three days. But His spirit went immediately back to God in heaven. You therefore build your premise on a false assumption. Nowhere does it say His spirit was in Hades for 3 day, nor does it teach that Abrahams bosom is paradise.

Whether His spirit descended to Hades before or after His ascent to His Father is not clear. Scripture does not really give a detailed outline of this, thus so much speculation.

Where in Scripture teaches that Abrahams bosom is paradise? Give us heart Scripture! You know it is not there.

Well saying Christ did not descend into Hades is the general reformed viewpoint today.

From several scriptures, I can believe Christ did descend into Hades
Such as this here
Ephesians 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [d]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

Christ can't fill all things unless He descended in Hades.
I also believe Hell, Hades, are deep in the earth. And that Hades and Hell are not the same place.
Down there it is hot and fiery and hell has typically been considered to be under out feet.

And that Paradise (Abraham's bosum) was also in the earth next to hellfire, but is not there now, Christ took it and them into Heaven when He ascended back into heaven after His resurrection.

Do you not believe Abraham's bosum was a real place?
And there was a great chasm fixed between it and hell fire where each side could see each other and even speak?
The scripture does not describe it as a parable.

I won't be changing my POV.
If the OT saints went into heaven at their deaths, then what Christ said makes no logical sense.

John 3:13
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

We can not enter heaven except with Christ.
Christ is the door into the Father's house who is in heaven, not one enters into heaven without Him.

John 10

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'll highlight the part that needs your attention. First, Paul quotes a Psalm of David, where he declares, "You have put all things under his feet." This was true during David's time, when he wrote a poem about his wonder that God would place everything under the direct authority of a human being.

Hebrews 2:8 For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

Paul clarifies that Psalm 8:6 has not yet been fully realized as of his time. Hebrews 2:8 states that God has placed all things under Christ's authority, but it acknowledges that we do not yet see everything fully subjected to Him. This verse highlights the tension between Christ’s already established sovereignty and the not-yet-fully-revealed nature of His rule on earth.

In the context of our discussion, this aligns with the idea that Christ’s ultimate reign is certain, but the full realization of His authority over all creation will be completed in the future—especially when He defeats all enemies, including death, as described in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28. Right now, His rule is spiritual and unfolding, but one day, it will be fully visible and undeniable.

I completely disagree.

Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

This verse is speaking in the present tense. At the time this was written God the Father had already "put all things in subjection under his feet" and "left nothing that is not put under him". That is present tense, so it means all current things are under Him. That lines up with what Jesus Himself said in Matthew 28:18 when He said He was given all power and authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18) and with what Paul taught here:

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Here, Paul gives the same timing of when God the Father "put all things under his feet" as when He "gave him to be the head over all things to the church". Surely, you would not dare say that He was not made "the head over all things to the church" upon His resurrection! So, why deny that all things were put under His feet at that time as well when Paul explicitly said so?

The reason it then says "But now we see not yet all things put under him." in Hebrews 2:8 is that all CURRENT things are under His feet, but there are things that do not yet exist that are not yet under His feet. There will be many babies born tomorrow. They are not yet under Him, but once they are born they will be.

 

[WPM]

And that Paradise (Abraham's bosum) was also in the earth next to hellfire, but is not there now, Christ took it and them into Heaven when He ascended back into heaven after His resurrection.

Stop avoiding my question. Give me one clear Scripture that teaches that Paradise was Abraham's bosom? You have given nothing but your own personal opinion.

 

[WPM]

Well saying Christ did not descend into Hades is the general reformed viewpoint today.

From several scriptures, I can believe Christ did descend into Hades
Such as this here
Ephesians 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [d]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

Christ can't fill all things unless He descended in Hades.
I also believe Hell, Hades, are deep in the earth. And that Hades and Hell are not the same place.
Down there it is hot and fiery and hell has typically been considered to be under out feet.

And that Paradise (Abraham's bosum) was also in the earth next to hellfire, but is not there now, Christ took it and them into Heaven when He ascended back into heaven after His resurrection.

Do you not believe Abraham's bosum was a real place?
And there was a great chasm fixed between it and hell fire where each side could see each other and even speak?
The scripture does not describe it as a parable.

I won't be changing my POV.
If the OT saints went into heaven at their deaths, then what Christ said makes no logical sense.

John 3:13
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

We can not enter heaven except with Christ.
Christ is the door into the Father's house who is in heaven, not one enters into heaven without Him.

John 10

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

I did not say Christ did not descend into Hades. Read my post. I am not sure whether it occurred after the initial ascent of His Spirit to be with His Father or after. However, I do not believe He was there for 3 days.

He conquered Hades. He then emptied it. He did not belong there.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But now, of this present time, we see not yet all things put under him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Hebrews 2:8b-9.

Ephesians 1:19 describes the glory and honor He has been crowned with: "..Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this AGE [aion], but also in that which is to come.."

Jesus: My kingdom is not of this world [kosmos]: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now, of this present time, is my kingdom not from hence.

You have an unbalanced view of these things brother. Your ship is listing.

What exactly are you intending to say here? Please communicate more clearly. I don't know what your issue is. Ephesians 1:19-22 indicates that all things are under His feet in this age and also will be in the age to come. I'm not saying anything different.

 

[WPM]

John 3:13
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

We can not enter heaven except with Christ.
Christ is the door into the Father's house who is in heaven, not one enters into heaven without Him.

This was said before the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. This was the reality from the Fall to the cross. But everything changed after the cross. The Old was fully fulfilled. He emptied Hades upon death, He descended into Hades and released the redeemed spirits. He did not raise the redeemed physically. That will occur at the second coming. We are talking about the disembodied dead in Christ in Abraham's bosom. They followed Christ into glory to reign with Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus is NOT reigning over His enemies now - according to Scripture

He reigns over all things, including His enemies, now - according to Scripture.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

If Jesus is not reigning over all things, including His enemies right now then that would mean He's also not the head over all things to the church right now because Paul gave the timing of the Father putting all things under His feet as being the same as when He "gave him to be the head over all things to the church". But, we all know that Jesus right now is "head over all things to the church".

 

[Scott Downey]

This was said before the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. This was the reality from the Fall to the cross. But everything changed after the cross. The Old was fully fulfilled. He emptied Hades upon death, He descended into Hades and released the redeemed spirits. He did not raise the redeemed physically. That will occur at the second coming. We are talking about the disembodied dead in Christ in Abraham's bosom. They followed Christ into glory to reign with Christ.

I agree with that.
I also believe there is only ONE people of God, in both the Old and New testaments.

8 "All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. "

Christ exposes that in verse 8. Meaning all the other competitors to Christ being the only way to the Father including in the Old testament times of any other nations were antichrists. The ROCK that followed Israel in the desert was Christ, and Abraham rejoiced in Christ.

1 Samuel 2:2
“No one is holy like the Lord, For there is none besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.

1 Corinthians 10
3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

John 10

7 Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who ever came [a]before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.