Limited atonement !

[Rockerduck]

God does all the work, all anyone has to do is to simply not resist Him but receive. Jesus came unto His own but they would not receive Him...."ye do always resist the Holy Spirit." People can chooe to resist Him. Mankind was made in the image of God....that means for one thing that man is capable of exercising his will.

God does all the work is correct. Man does none of it. But, you just said two contradicting phrases. If God does all the work, man cannot excercise his own will. That is Freewill theology. Man is incapable of saving himself and choosing when God will save him. God has sovereign control over all aspects of your salvation. You have none.

 

[brightfame52]

It is not given to all, because not all are willing to receive it, that's all. It is not the kind of gift that can be forced on someone against their will. The door is open to "whosoever will". A humble and contrite heart He will not turn away. God is not a respecter of persons, and He doesn't violate His own righteousness as to force Himself on anyone. Even the church is admonished not to exercise authority (force) on anyone like the world does. We need to understand the spiritual language of scripture in spirit, because it is spiritual language speaking in spirit.

Its not given to all because all arent Christs/abrahams Seed

Salvation is given only to a seed,not all mankind, Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

He came for the help of the seed of abraham, not all mankind Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. NKJV

 

[Runningman]

Salvation is given only to a seed,not all mankind, Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Paul was telling this to Gentiles in Rome and elsewhere in the Roman empire. His point is that being a child of God, regardless of being male or female, and regardless of ethnicity, is through faith in Christ Jesus. Being of the seed of Abraham is for anyone. All you need to do is have faith which essentially means to just trust God on this one.

Galatians 3
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 10
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Runningman]

You havent believed a verse yet Ihave provided

I say amen to all of the verses you provide, but the controversy is with the commentary you provide about them.

 

[Lizbeth]

God does all the work is correct. Man does none of it. But, you just said two contradicting phrases. If God does all the work, man cannot excercise his own will. That is Freewill theology. Man is incapable of saving himself and choosing when God will save him. God has sovereign control over all aspects of your salvation. You have none.

Man can choose to resist the Spirit my friend. That is scriptural. There are even testimonies of people being drawn and wooed by the Lord, who for a time resist Him. Then later on down the road they finally yield to Him.

 

[Lizbeth]

Its not given to all because all arent Christs/abrahams Seed

Salvation is given only to a seed,not all mankind, Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

He came for the help of the seed of abraham, not all mankind Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. NKJV

We need to take God's foreknowledge into account.....the language of scripture is taking it into account in places. No-one is really the seed of Abraham until they become so through receiving Christ.

 

[Rockerduck]

Man can choose to resist the Spirit my friend. That is scriptural. There are even testimonies of people being drawn and wooed by the Lord, who for a time resist Him. Then later on down the road they finally yield to Him.

Its called being pursued by the Lord, and he will not give up once you have been chosen. You can run away but he will cause something drastic to make you accept Jesus. I know of many examples of this. When one is called of the Lord in church, he might resist the calling for a time, even a month, but that person will not miss a church service to see if that calling is still there, but again Jesus will cause you to come down to the alter. I have examples of this, as this is the most common.

 

[Runningman]

Its called being pursued by the Lord, and he will not give up once you have been chosen. You can run away but he will cause something drastic to make you accept Jesus. I know of many examples of this. When one is called of the Lord in church, he might resist the calling for a time, even a month, but that person will not miss a church service to see if that calling is still there, but again Jesus will cause you to come down to the alter. I have examples of this, as this is the most common.

Absolutely, God does pursue those who belong Him, but they can resist God. People can change, become unfaithful, start giving lip service, denying God, take the mark of the beast, etc. Of course God doesn't want that, but people can go astray. Jesus taught on this very matter, saying that sheep can go astray. While it's true the sheep who have gone astray are hunted down aggressively, there is still a possibility they can be lost.

Matt 13
12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

 

[Rockerduck]

Absolutely, God does pursue those who belong Him, but they can resist God. People can change, become unfaithful, start giving lip service, denying God, take the mark of the beast, etc. Of course God doesn't want that, but people can go astray. Jesus taught on this very matter, saying that sheep can go astray. While it's true the sheep who have gone astray are hunted down aggressively, there is still a possibility they can be lost.

Matt 13
12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

I like this one better

Luke 15:4-7 - “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

 

[Runningman]

I like this one better

Luke 15:4-7 - “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Seems Matt and Luke remembered this differently. Surely there are some teachings by Jesus that suggest those who go astray can be lost.

 

[brightfame52]

Christs death is limited to them He obtained Eternal Redemption for, since what He obtains for us He lives to ensure the application of it Heb 9:12

neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now by His own Blood signifies His Death, which by it He obtained eternal redemption for certain ones. Now who are they?

Recall back in Chapter 1 vs 14

Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Its the heirs. Notice again Heb 6:17-18

. 17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18 that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us

And the heirs of promise dont just consist of some jews, but some Gentiles, the Church the Body of Christ Gal 3:29

And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. 17

 

[brightfame52]

Paul was telling this to Gentiles in Rome and elsewhere in the Roman empire. His point is that being a child of God, regardless of being male or female, and regardless of ethnicity, is through faith in Christ Jesus. Being of the seed of Abraham is for anyone. All you need to do is have faith which essentially means to just trust God on this one.

Galatians 3
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 10
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Salvation is given to and limited to a seed, some gentiles are included in that seed. Christ died specifically for a seed, seen vividly here Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

 

[brightfame52]

I say amen to all of the verses you provide, but the controversy is with the commentary you provide about them.

Again, you havent believed one verse I have shared in this communication, you are just talking

 

[brightfame52]

We need to take God's foreknowledge into account.....the language of scripture is taking it into account in places. No-one is really the seed of Abraham until they become so through receiving Christ.

False, that statement isnt in scripture

 

[Rockerduck]

Seems Matt and Luke remembered this differently. Surely there are some teachings by Jesus that suggest those who go astray can be lost.

5 Christians Walk into a room and sit at a table.
One says, " I believe in Universalism", here are the scriptures.
One says, " I believe you can lose your salvation", here are the scriptures
One says, "I believe in OSAS", here are the scriptures.
One says, "I believe Calvinism is of the devil", here are the scriptures.
The Last one says, "I'm a Calvinist", here are the scriptures.

The bible actually has verses that support all these positions.

 

[Lizbeth]

I like this one better

Luke 15:4-7 - “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Only one problem....that is not the point of the parable and not what it is teaching. Jesus didn't give that parable for the purpose of teaching that everyone who goes astray will necessarily be brought back to the fold. He was making a point about having a shepherd's heart, as opposed to a judgmental superior pharisaical attitude, towards those who go astray. We need to not take things further than the Lord intends by them.

 

[Ritajanice]

Its called being pursued by the Lord, and he will not give up once you have been chosen. You can run away but he will cause something drastic to make you accept Jesus. I know of many examples of this. When one is called of the Lord in church, he might resist the calling for a time, even a month, but that person will not miss a church service to see if that calling is still there, but again Jesus will cause you to come down to the alter. I have examples of this, as this is the most common.

That never happened to me,I became Born Again with no Bible in sight...... I will share this though, God gave me heart revelation in a church, at first it scared me silly, I didn’t understand it and I said NO out of ignorance and not understanding what he had revealed to my heart.

You are right though, I had to keep going to that church, I could not run away ...I found out eventually by walking in faith and trusting God, that it was He who gave me that heart revelation....it’s a long story and I’m still waiting for the fruit of my labour to come to pass...3 years it took God to bring me to his truth, that he revealed to my heart....

When it does, all Glory will go to God....I was just obedient to what he asked me to do, once I knew that my heart revelation came from him...Praise God always.

 

[Rockerduck]

Only one problem....that is not the point of the parable and not what it is teaching. Jesus didn't give that parable for the purpose of teaching that everyone who goes astray will necessarily be brought back to the fold. He was making a point about having a shepherd's heart, as opposed to a judgmental superior pharisaical attitude, towards those who go astray. We need to not take things further than the Lord intends by them.

I believe the point of the parable was simple; Jesus will not let you go; He will bring you back to Him. Simple truth.

 

[Hey You!]

I believe the point of the parable was simple; Jesus will not let you go; He will bring you back to Him. Simple truth.

I agree...

Exegesis...

Not Private Interpretation...

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe the point of the parable was simple; Jesus will not let you go; He will bring you back to Him. Simple truth.

I believe the point of the parable was simple; Jesus will not let you go; He will bring you back to Him. Simple truth.

How on earth can he let us go, when we know in our spirit that we belong to Jesus, and that the Father gave us to the Son, whoever the Father gives to Jesus he won’t lose one...because he gave birth to our spirit...Spirit gives birth to spirit.

If one believes they can lose their salvation, then I don’t think that they know that their spirit is Born Again...they are relying on scripture to understand what Born Again means imo @Rockerduck .

I know that my spirit is Born Again by Gods Living Witness/ testimony, the Living Spirit Of Christ...scripture can’t testify with our spirit who we are in Christ...it confirms who we are in Christ.