Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[Scott Downey]

Philippians 1

27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

hmmm, granted on behalf of Christ, now what does that really mean.... answer is v29

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 

[Scott Downey]

Again John 8 tells us the truth about those who are of God, as in born again and those who are not of God as in not born of God.
One has God as their Father God (born of Him), the other the devil is their father. Each one desires to do the will of their father

Keep fighting the truth and God will break your neck and eventually you will accept what He says, hopefully in this life you learn as much truth as is possible as God wants you to know the truth, it is why these things are written down.
To be one of His family, you must be born into His family as a babe. The babe had no choice of its parents.
It just happens.
If you're not of God, then God's word will have no place in your heart.


John 8
37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Again John 5 tells us these same things, those not born of God, will not have God's word abiding in them, and they will not believe.
Those not born of God will not have the love of God inside themselves.
And they will not believe the scriptures either.

John 5

The Fourfold Witness​

31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not [e]true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.

37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men.

42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.

43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 13 regarding the seed on the good ground, v23 is the only one that bore good fruit.
We must bear good fruit or we will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

That good ground was the heart God had prepared.
He does this by making a man born again so as to believe the gospel message when he hears it.
Then the heart is good fertile ground for the word of God to grow and bear good fruit to God.

Do you make for yourself the good heart? Are you God?

The Parable of the Sower​

1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

The Purpose of Parables​

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I [b]should heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

The Parable of the Sower Explained​

18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

 

[Scott Downey]

If some people are just naturally the good ground with a good heart, that would make God a liar
It is not in man's power to make his own heart good.

Genesis 8:21
And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Jeremiah 18
11 “Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.” ’ ”

God’s Warning Rejected​

12 And they said, “That is hopeless! So we will walk according to our own plans, and we will every one [a]obey the dictates[b] of his evil heart.”

Ecclesiastes 8:11
Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

Ecclesiastes 9:3
This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Jeremiah 3:17
“At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the Lord, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.

Jeremiah 4:14
O Jerusalem, wash your heart from wickedness, That you may be saved. How long shall your evil thoughts lodge within you?

Jeremiah 7:24
Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but followed the counsels and the dictates of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward.

Jeremiah 11:8
Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but everyone followed the dictates of his evil heart; therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do, but which they have not done.’ ”

etc...

 

[Scott Downey]

All of that is why this New Covenant is so good
How does God establish in people this covenant?
read v10-12

You can see God simply overrules the evil heart, and writes His laws on their heart and puts them constantly in their mind.

A New Covenant​

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Scott Downey]

For the Israel of God, as in those that obtain the blessing of Abraham
God gives them a new heart and a new spirit
God does this for His own sake, that Christ would have brethren
God is growing the church, Himself adding to it daily.
The washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit is described here.


Ezekiel 36
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will [e]loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations.

32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”

 

[Scott Downey]

Titus 3

1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

Simply we are saved and justified by grace alone.
Everything and anything we did was according to the purposes of God working in our life.
He did this by making us born of God.
Only a person born of God will confess and believe in Christ

It is only by the Holy Spirit that any person can say and believe Jesus is Lord.
So then this is all of Him and not of ourselves, being the gift of God towards those He has purposed to save

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

It is not within your own self or power to confess Jesus is Lord.
And this is a good thing otherwise no one would have believed in Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

Do you believe in corroboration?

You were shown irrefutable proof of Holy Spirit Corroboration in the Scriptures.

Holy Spirit Says: 1,000 literal years

 

[CadyandZoe]

Paul said that to be absent from the body (bodily dead) is to be present with the Lord and he said being present with the Lord is much better than being in the body (2 Corinthians 5:6-8, Philippians 1:20-24). With that being the case, why do you believe that being bodily dead is worse than being alive? Why don't you agree with Paul that being absent from the body means you are then present with the Lord which is far better than being in the body and absent from the Lord?

For efficiency, Paul concludes his remarks with an unbalanced comparison: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The balanced comparison is understood to be the following: to be absent the Lord in [my corrupt body] is to be present with the Lord [in my immortal body.]

Nonsense! So, you don't believe in a real place called hell? You don't believe that Abraham and Moses are real people? Why does Jesus give the detail that the rich man had 5 brothers if He was just "teaching a moral lesson"? How does it aid his moral lesson to mention how many brothers the rich man had?

The term "Hell" encompasses three distinct realms, each with its own characteristics and significance. First, there is Hades, a mythical underworld from ancient Greek mythology, often depicted as a shadowy place where the souls of the deceased reside. Within this realm lies Tartarus, a dark and tormenting abyss where the most wicked are punished for their sins. In contrast, the third representation of Hell is the Lake of Fire, a real concept found in various religious texts, described as a place of eternal suffering and fiery torment for those condemned. Together, these three interpretations of Hell illustrate a complex tapestry of beliefs surrounding the afterlife and the consequences of one's actions.

In his writings, Josephus recounts the beliefs of the Jewish people regarding an enigmatic realm known as "Abraham's bosom." This mythical place was viewed as a comforting haven, a serene resting ground for the righteous after death. Interestingly, Josephus equated this concept with "Hades," suggesting that both terms referred to a similar underworld experience, one that was layered with meaning and symbolic significance in the Jewish spiritual narrative.

Jesus often used metaphors to convey profound truths, and one such metaphor was "Gehenna." This term referred to a specific location outside the city, known for its perpetual fires that burned refuse and waste. The foul stench of burning garbage permeated the air, symbolizing decay and despair. In this vivid imagery, he illustrated a reality that John later described as "The Lake of Fire," evoking a powerful sense of judgment and separation from the divine.

The fable of "The Rich man and Lazarus" is based on the mythical place known as "Abraham's bosom."

Yes, I agree, but the fact is that they are portrayed as being conscious and not asleep. Why would they be portrayed that way if they are not actually conscious?

Why did God portray Abel's blood as being conscious? Fabulous language helps communicate the idea that justice is deeply connected to divine intervention. The idea that Abel’s blood “cries out” symbolizes the injustice of his murder, demanding God’s attention and judgment. It’s a vivid way of expressing the gravity of Cain’s crime and emphasizing that even silent acts of wrongdoing are noticed by the divine.

John portrays the souls of the martyrs underneath the altar, a place where the Levites would typically throw the blood of the sacrifices. According to the instructions given in the Book of Leviticus, the blood of sacrificial animals was often sprinkled or poured out at the base of the altar as part of the atonement process. This act symbolized purification and the covering of sins, emphasizing the sacredness of life and the seriousness of sin.

In this way, John associates the martyr of believers with the ritual service of God. This is just as Jesus said, when they kill you they will think that they are serving God. (John 16:2)

 

[David in NJ]

Yeah right! Everybody does that but you.

Right now, between the three of us, the only person believing God's words on a 1,000 literal years is David.

Amils are bound in unbelief/error = same as pre-fibbers, except their error is far far greater.

Unbelief has no power to prevent the future LITERAL thousand year REIGN = on earth!!!

 

[David in NJ]

What is your hermeneutics?

her
men
ene
unics

Wisdom looks like this = Matthew 18:1-5

 

[CadyandZoe]

I must have missed it. What is the post number?

A. Amos Chapter 9 Summary

God’s Judgment on Israel (Verses 1-10): Amos describes a vision of God standing by the altar, ready to bring destruction upon Israel. No one can escape His judgment—whether they flee to the heights of heaven or the depths of the sea, God will find them. He reminds them that His power extends over all nations, and just as He brought Israel out of Egypt, He can also uproot them. However, despite the harsh punishment, God will not completely destroy Israel—only the sinful ones will perish.

Restoration and Hope (Verses 11-15): The chapter shifts from destruction to a promise of renewal. God declares that He will restore the fallen house of David, rebuild Israel, and bless the land. The people will prosper, planting vineyards and gardens, and they will never be uprooted again. It’s a beautiful vision of hope and redemption, showing that even after judgment, God remains faithful to His covenant.

B. As it relates to the Second Advent

Judgment and Purification: The chapter speaks of God shaking Israel and removing the sinful, much like how the Second Advent is associated with the final judgment, where evil is confronted and righteousness is established.

Restoration of David’s House: The prophecy of restoring the "fallen tent of David" (Amos 9:11) is often linked to the Messianic Kingdom. Some see this as a foreshadowing of Christ's reign at His Second Coming, when He establishes His eternal kingdom.

Permanent Restoration and Peace: Verses 13-15 describe a future where Israel is secure, fruitful, and never uprooted again. Some believers view this as pointing to the ultimate fulfillment in Christ’s return, when His followers will experience everlasting peace and blessing.

 

[WPM]

I don't mean to offend, but I find this to be a cop out response that is typical of Calvinism. Scripture has a great deal to say about salvation, but somehow nothing about how salvation is determined by God? I don't buy it.

Do you also say that it's a mystery as to why God punishes unbelievers for eternity? It can't be because of them making the wrong choice about whether to believe or not because Calvinism says that salvation is of God alone and faith is given by God rather than coming from man. So, why does He punish people for not repenting and believing if they have no choice in the matter? That's just a mystery? Does that line up with God wanting all people to repent and to be saved?


No, you are.


I am not. I quoted the scripture. No games here. Don't act like you are talking to someone like Doug here. I don't play games with scripture and you know that. You KNOW that.


It matters a great deal. From the foundation of the world means it started being written when the world began. Before the foundation of the world means it was already written before the world even began.


Give me evidence that such a book ever existed.

You seem to be ignoring the context of the passage. A book of the living as a record of Israel's population would have included both the righteous and wicked and one's inclusion would not have been based on whether he or she was righteous or not. Read the passage again.

Psalm 69:27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Notice here that the book of the living was a book that was intended to only contain the names of "the righteous". That's why those who were adding "iniquity unto their iniquity" needed to have their names blotted out of it. That lines up with the Lamb's book of life that only contains the names of the righteous (those who are saved) and does not line up with a book that records people who were living in Israel, which would have included both the righteous and the wicked. A book recording the population of Israel would not be based on whether someone is righteous or not, but whether they were living in Israel or not.

This is just another example of how Calvinism takes scripture out of context.


Yes, I know that, but you're missing the point. Why would He even say that if it was not possible for someone's name to be blotted out of the book of life? What a strange thing for Him to say if that was not even possible.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

What if someone does not overcome? If overcoming means He will not blot your name out of the book of life, then not overcoming would mean He will blot your name out of the book of life. There was no point in saying that He wouldn't blot their name out of the book of life if that wasn't even possible. It would go without saying in that case. The Calvinist interpretation of Revelation 3:5 makes Jesus's statement meaningless and pointless, in my opinion. Of course He would not blot out anyone's name out of the book of life if that's not even possible.

Why would Jesus make such an obvious point as that since everyone would already know that if it was not possible for someone's name to be blotted out of the book of life?

Bro, I respect you too much to keep this going. We are not getting anywhere. We are both embedded in our view. We are not going to shift each other. Also, I come here to discuss end-times. That is what my passion is here. That is where we are in agreement.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Bro, I respect you too much to keep this going. We are not getting anywhere.

As I said would be the case.

We are both embedded in our view.

Yep.

We are not going to shift each other. Also, I come here to discuss end-times. That is what my passion is here. That is where we are in agreement.

Right. I'm fine with just agreeing to disagree on this. But, this doesn't mean I won't talk about this topic with other people if it comes up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right now, between the three of us, the only person believing God's words on a 1,000 literal years is David.

Amils are bound in unbelief/error = same as pre-fibbers, except their error is far far greater.

Unbelief has no power to prevent the future LITERAL thousand year REIGN = on earth!!!

The next time you make a convincing argument to back up your Premill view will be the first time. You're all about eisegesis with no exegesis.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

For efficiency, Paul concludes his remarks with an unbalanced comparison: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The balanced comparison is understood to be the following: to be absent the Lord in [my corrupt body] is to be present with the Lord [in my immortal body.]

Nice job of twisting his words. I can't take you seriously. Paul was speaking in the context of what would happen immediately upon departing his body.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Titus 3

1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

Simply we are saved and justified by grace alone.
Everything and anything we did was according to the purposes of God working in our life.
He did this by making us born of God.
Only a person born of God will confess and believe in Christ

It is only by the Holy Spirit that any person can say and believe Jesus is Lord.
So then this is all of Him and not of ourselves, being the gift of God towards those He has purposed to save

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

It is not within your own self or power to confess Jesus is Lord.
And this is a good thing otherwise no one would have believed in Christ.

Scott, who do you imagine is reading all of these posts? I'm not. I know my posts are what spawned all these posts. You are wasting your time. No one is reading these. You are not addressing anything I said specifically, so I'm not going to bother reading and addressing your posts, either.

 

[Scott Downey]

Scott, who do you imagine is reading all of these posts? I'm not. I know my posts are what spawned all these posts. You are wasting your time. No one is reading these. You are not addressing anything I said specifically, so I'm not going to bother reading and addressing your posts, either.

Actually, you do not know who is reading whatever is posted.
These threads are more than about anyone one person.
I don't write to always expect a response.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Has to do with the natural carnally minded man which while it may be intrigued by Christ will not believe in Him.

Romans 8 shows this

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Enmity against God will not allow the carnal mind to believe in Christ.

Explain this then...

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

How were these people that Paul rebuked "in Christ" if the carnal mind cannot believe in Christ? You are interpreting Romans 8 in such a way that contradicts 1 Corinthians 3. You are not being careful with how you are interpreting scripture. You can't interpret any passage in isolation from the rest of scripture without making sure you are not contradicting any other scripture.