More on the deity of Christ

[David Lamb]

That’s right. But that is not a claim by Jesus that he himself is Yahweh.



There is a functional equality of Jesus with Yahweh. His enemies did recognize that was what he was claiming.

Jesus didn’t make himself God. Yahweh himself made Jesus God to them, and to everyone.

Yet right back at the opening of John's gospel we read:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Joh 1:1 NKJV)

And v 14 makes clear that by "the Word," John is referring to Jesus Christ:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

No suggestion there that Yahweh made Jesus God to them, Jesus Christ is the Word Who has always been God.

 

[Matthias]

The Father is YHVH
The Son is YHVH
The Holy Spirit is YHVH

The hebrew word for "one" here actually proves the Trinity. The Hebrew word for one here is "Echad" It means a unity out of plurality. It is the same word used here:

Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one (Echad) flesh.

Dt 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one (Echad) Lord:

God is ONE just as a man and wife are one. Separate beings bound together in unity.

I’ve commented on this many times here over the past three years. The thing that is somewhat unique in your comment is your suggestion that the Triune God isn’t (or may not be) one being but multiple beings.

That’s something for the trinitarians to address. I’m a Jewish monotheist, not a trinitarian.

 

[Matthias]

Yet right back at the opening of John's gospel we read:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Joh 1:1 NKJV)

We’ve already discussed this. You see two persons (why not three persons?) in John 1:1. A Jewish monotheist sees only one person in John 1:1.

And v 14 makes clear that by "the Word," John is referring to Jesus Christ:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

Yes.

 

[shepherdsword]

I’ve commented on this many times here over the past three years. The thing that is somewhat unique in your comment is your suggestion that the Triune God isn’t one being but multiple beings.

That’s something for the trinitarians to address. I’m a Jewish monotheist, not a trinitarian.

Any true "Trinitarian" would agree that:
1)The Father is YHVH
2)The Son is YHVH
3)The Holy Spirit is YHVH

You seem to be confusing Modalism ((aka Sabellianism or Modalistic Monarchianism) with the Trinity

 

[Matthias]

Any true "Trinitarian" would agree that:
1)The Father is YHVH
2)The Son is YHVH
3)The Holy Spirit is YHVH

Dr. Witherington is a “true“ trinitarian. There are other “true” trinitarians who agree with him that Jesus wasn’t and isn’t Yahweh. I’ve quoted some of them on the forum.

You seem to be confusing Modalism ((aka Sabellianism or Modalistic Monarchianism) with the Trinity

I’m not. I’m an ex-trinitarian. I’m now, and have been for many years, a Jewish monotheist, a Dynamic Monarchian; not a Modalistic Monarchian. I know the difference between them.

 

[shepherdsword]

Dr. Witherington is a “true“ trinitarian. There are other “true” trinitarians who agree with him that Jesus wasn’t and isn’t Yahweh. I’ve quoted some of them on the forum.

LOL....you can't be a true Trinitarian and reject the deity of Christ.

I’m not. I’m an ex-trinitarian. I’m now, and have been for many years, a Jewish monotheist,

You got trapped in deception at some time

a Dynamic Monarchian; not a Modalistic Monarchian. I know the difference between them.

You say you do but your remark on my post suggests otherwise

 

[Matthias]

No suggestion there that Yahweh made Jesus God to them ...

I affirm Moses typology.

… Jesus Christ is the Word Who has always been God.

You will find - as I’m sure you must have in the years you’ve been speaking with people about John’s Gospel - some unitarians, binitarians and of course trinitarians who will agree with your comment.

It isn’t compatible with Jewish monotheism.

 

[Matthias]

LOL....you can't be a true Trinitarian and reject the deity of Christ.

Dr. Witherington doesn’t reject the deity of Christ.

You got trapped in deception at some time

I’ve spoken about that elsewhere.

You say you do but your remark on my post suggests otherwise

Among other things, I was a professor of theology and taught historical orthodox trinitarianism to college students.

 

[Behold]

It isn’t compatible with Jewish monotheism.

And Jewish monotheism, is not compatable with the NT and is especially not compatable with CHRISTianity.

However, if you are an unsaved Jew, then its designed for you.......and if the person is a Christian, and hates the doctrine that is "the Trinity" then they will LOVE monotheism.

 

[Matthias]

And Jewish monotheism, is not compatable with the NT and is especially not compatable with CHRISTianity.

I’ve previously shown you from scripture, church history, and trinitarian scholarship that it is.

 

[Behold]

I’ve previously shown you from scripture, church history, and trinitarian scholarship that it is.

You posted verses, quoted opinions, and then said......"proved it".

A.) Failed again next time.

 

[Matthias]

You posted verses, quoted opinions, and then said......"proved it".

A.) Failed again next time.

Others have been and are persuaded. Success.

Let everyone be convinced in his or her own mind.

 

[Behold]

Others have been and are persuaded. Success.

Yes, its possible for you to deceive people., as you are the same.

You read John 1:10, where it says that Jesus ""made the world"", and you cant conceive of it, because that is how mind blindness operates.

This is like the Calvinist, who reads that "For God so loved the WORLD", and they will howl that "that does not mean everyone"......because they too can't SEE truth, as being deceived does not allow Truth to enter them.

 

[Matthias]

Yes, its possible for you to deceive people., as you are the same.

You read John 1:10, where it says that Jesus ""made the world"", and you cant conceive of it, because that is how mind blindness operates.

This is like the Calvinist, who reads that "For God so loved the WORLD", and they will howl that "that does not mean everyone"......because they too can't SEE truth, as being deceived does not allow Truth to enter them.

All commentary is opinion. I’ve read yours. As with all commentary, I accept what I’m persuaded is correct and reject what I’m persuaded is incorrect.

I also read something the other day that helped me and I’m sure will help others:

“The blood of the Lamb silences the accuser.” - D.A. Carson

 

[Behold]

All commentary is opinion.

False.

only false commentary is opinion.

Real Theology, that has its firm foundation rooted in Paul's Doctrine, is fact.

Jesus said that "you can KNOW the Truth", and you deny this, when you say that "all commentary is opinion".
Understand @Matthias ?

See, you are one of those who believes that all Truth is relative and all theology is "anybody's guess" and that is why you have the opinions you have regarding the Bible.
Sometimes a person like you, a relativist, becomes a MOD on a Forum, and that is the worst of all, for the forum.. the absolute curse found on a forum, other then a Mod being a CALVINIST.

 

[Matthias]

False.

only false commentary is opinion.

Real Theology, that has its firm foundation rooted in Paul's Doctrine, is fact.

Jesus said that "you can KNOW the Truth", and you deny this, when you say that "all commentary is opinion".
Understand @Matthias ?

See, you are one of those who believes that all Truth is relative and all theology is "anybody's guess" and that is why you have the opinions you have regarding the Bible.
Sometimes a person like you, a relativist, becomes a MOD on a Forum, and that is the worst of all, for the forum.. the absolute curse found on a forum, other then a Mod being a CALVINIST.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

***

A word now to wise readers. What this man brazenly asserted about me isn’t true. I’ve never been, nor will I ever be, a relativist. Anyone who knows me knows that.

Decide for yourselves. I don’t have anything further to say about his comment.