Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[Spiritual Israelite]

One thing we do know is that Psalm 22:27 has to take place prior to an Amil NHNE where there is no more death.

Psalm 22:29(NIV) All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive.

And I said that I believe it relates to His first coming and how He currently has all power and authority over heaven and earth. If you read Psalm 22 from the beginning you can see that it prophesies a number of things in relation to the first coming of Christ.

 

[Davidpt]

Amils don't take Revelation 19 literally in terms of it talking about birds literally eating the bodies of those who are killed. But, the text clearly reflects physical destruction instead of the nonsense you showed by trying to relate it to communion.

And while you're at it since you do take 2 Peter 3:10-12 literally, that it means the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning babies, children, adults, animals, etc, to a crisp, why don't you point out for us anywhere in Revelation 19 since it too involves the 2nd coming, where it ever gives the impression the entire planet is engulfed in flames at the time.

And don't even dare argue that this won't be including babies and children as well, since you know good and well that God never spared any babies and children during Noah's flood, therefore, so why would He do it this time around then? Right? Imagine that, as bad as drowning has to be to begin with, this time around He's going to burn babies and children to a crisp, something thousands of times worse than being drowned to death.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes people die during the thousand years.....

So, how can that be the age to come when Jesus said that people get married and die during this age but will not get married or die in the age to come?

...these are those that came out of the tribulation and physically enter the millennial kingdom on earth......those resurrected in the first resurrection will not die.......the first resurrection is made up of the old testament saints and those in Christ thru Christ's and Peter and the apostles preaching

It's not saying just those who are resurrected won't die, it's saying that those who are worthy to obtain the age to come will not die. Yet, you have people dying in the age to come. Jesus said there will be no death in the age to come. The age to come is eternal and will come in the form of the new heavens and new earth.

 

[WPM]

The sword is the word of God and I would say the great supper of God is referring to communion, where we are to eat His flesh and drink His blood. Those in Revelation 19 are not worthy so they are pictured eating the flesh of kings, captains, mighty men …



You still haven’t given a direct answer as to when Psalm 22:27 gets fulfilled. It appears that you want it to be fulfilled prior to Christ’s future coming but that would be in direct conflict with Satan being loosed prior to His coming.

You talk such nonsense.

 

[WPM]

And while you're at it since you do take 2 Peter 3:10-12 literally, that it means the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning babies, children, adults, animals, etc, to a crisp, why don't you point out for us anywhere in Revelation 19 since it too involves the 2nd coming, where it ever gives the impression the entire planet is engulfed in flames at the time.

And don't even dare argue that this won't be including babies and children as well, since you know good and well that God never spared any babies and children during Noah's flood, therefore, so why would He do it this time around then? Right? Imagine that, as bad as drowning has to be to begin with, this time around He's going to burn babies and children to a crisp, something thousands of times worse than being drowned to death.

You promote a false humanistic gospel. What about all the babies in Noah's day? What about all the babies in Sodom? What about all the babies that were destroyed in the old testament?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And while you're at it since you do take 2 Peter 3:10-12 literally, that it means the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames, therefore, burning babies, children, adults, animals, etc, to a crisp, why don't you point out for us anywhere in Revelation 19 since it too involves the 2nd coming, where it ever gives the impression the entire planet is engulfed in flames at the time.

LOL. How many times do we have to go over this before you stop acting like we haven't already discussed this before? Do you not understand that Revelation 19:11-21 is full of symbolism? Do you think that Jesus will be literally riding a white horse when He comes? Do you think He will have a literal sword coming out of His mouth that He will use to literally slay people? Do you think He will literally have many crowns on His head when He comes? Do you think the armies of heaven who are with Him will all literally be riding white horses? Do you think He will be literally treading a literal winepress?

None of it is literal. So, why would you expect that it would describe literal fire there when it clearly is describing everything figuratively? Does context mean anything to you at all? The context of Revelation 19 involves symbolic text. There is no such indication when it comes to 2 Peter 3:10-12. Peter refers to that same event in 2 Peter 3:7 and compares it directly to a literal, physical global event of the past (the flood in Noah's day) just as Jesus did in Matthew 24:35-39 and Luke 17:26-30.

And don't even dare argue that this won't be including babies and children as well, since you know good and well that God never spared any babies and children during Noah's flood, therefore, so why would He do it this time around then? Right?

You make one thing very clear when you make comments like this. You interpret scripture based on emotion and based on what you want to happen instead of what it says will happen.

This event described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 occurs at the end of time, which is a different circumstance. In the flood, while babies and children were killed, that doesn't mean their souls went to hell. God wanted to start all over with one family. The flood was His wrath against an unbelieving world, but that doesn't mean Him allowing babies and children to be killed means that it was His wrath against them and they ended up in hell. His wrath was against their parents and grandparents and He intended to destroy them. He obviously couldn't just let all the babies and children survive without any parents or anyone to take care of them.

Since 2 Peter 3:10-12 happens at the end of time, I believe babies and children will be changed to have immortal bodies and will be raptured at that time rather than killed. It would be pointless to kill them only to immediately resurrect them and change their bodies to be immortal moments later. I think their bodies will be immediately changed just like ours will and they will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air with the rest of us.

Imagine that, as bad as drowning has to be to begin with, this time around He's going to burn babies and children to a crisp, something thousands of times worse than being drowned to death.

LOL. First of all, I never said that, so once again you are making a straw man argument. You waste your time doing that over and over and over and over again. Why? What is the reason that you don't find out what I actually believe first before making assumptions and making these ridiculous comments that don't even relate to what I believe?

Also, it's ridiculous to claim that being people being burned up when Jesus returns is thousands of times worse than drowning to death. How do you figure? Think of what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah. How long do you think it took for the fire to kill the people in those cities? I think it was likely instant. Think of Lot's wife. How long did it take for her to turn into a pillar of salt? It happened instantly. So, you think being instantly killed by fire is thousands of times worse than drowning? That's complete nonsense. It's the other way around, if anything. You juts make ludicrous comments over and over again and I'm forced to correct your nonsense repeatedly. Do you never tire of that?

 

[Doug]

So, how can that be the age to come when Jesus said that people get married and die during this age but will not get married or die in the age to come?


It's not saying just those who are resurrected won't die, it's saying that those who are worthy to obtain the age to come will not die. Yet, you have people dying in the age to come. Jesus said there will be no death in the age to come. The age to come is eternal and will come in the form of the new heavens and new earth.

During the millennial there are those who will die but it is rare.......when there is a new heavens after the thousand years there is no death..............[Rev 21:4 KJV] 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.................does this help explain?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You promote a false humanistic gospel. What about all the babies in Noah's day? What about all the babies in Sodom? What about all the babies that were destroyed in the old testament?

Somehow, that's different in his mind.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

During the millennial there are those who will die but it is rare.......when there is a new heavens and death after the thousand years there is no death..............[Rev 21:4 KJV] 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.................does this help explain?

No, it doesn't help at all. You seem to not be accepting what Jesus taught in Luke 20:34-36 which is that there will be no death in the age to come. The age to come is the age of the eternal new heavens and new earth.

 

[covenantee]

Jesus was given all authority of heaven and Earth. If it was merely authority in heaven, then the claim of the kingdom not being of this world EVER might have merit. So, the verse strongly implies what you are looking explicitly for.

Matthew 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus provides the explanation in the subsequent verses. Because all power in heaven and in earth is given to Him, therefore that power is available to His followers on earth to go and teach and baptize all nations.

Nothing whatever to do with a kingdom of this world or earth.

 

[Wrangler]

All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth

Nothing whatever to do with a kingdom of this world or earth.

Some people just don't have eyes to see.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The NT quotes from the LXX version of psalm 2, are you unaware of this?

So? I showed that even in that version of Psalm 2, it doesn't mean what you think it means. You have Jesus correcting heathen, when in reality He only corrects His own people. He disciplines those He loves (Revelation 3:19).

Where did I state revelation 19 was about Jesus correcting the nations?

I already stated previously that I think the main point of revelation 19 was Jesus dashing to pieces those that would not serve the Lord or accept correction.

You said that Psalm 2:9 is explained in the verses which follow it which, in the LXX version talks about people accepting correction. Revelation 19:15 quotes Psalm 2:9, so it came across that you were saying Revelation 19 relates to Jesus correcting people. Don't blame me for your lack of clarity.

I think revelation 19:19 alludes to psalm 2:1-2 (which acts 4 declared was about the crucifixion) using the apocalyptic motif, but ultimately revelation 19 is about Christ dashing to pieces those that wouldn’t serve the lord or accept correction

It can't be alluding only to the crucifixion because Jesus will be destroying more than just those who had Him killed when He returns. He will be destroying "all people, free and slave, great and small" (Revelation 19:18) which are all "those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" (2 Thessalonians 1:7-8).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Some people just don't have eyes to see.

Do you have eyes to see that a kingdom of this world would mean a kingdom that is evil and worldly rather than righteous and heavenly?

You need to think about what it means to be of this world. It doesn't mean to be on this earth or to be earthly. You know that Jesus said He and His followers are not of this world, right (John 17:14-18)? Yet, He and His followers were in the world (on the earth) when He said that.

To be "of this world" means to be sinful and means you go along with this evil world's ways instead of God's ways (John 8:21-24). So, Jesus's kingdom will never be "of this world" even though it is spiritually here in the world (on the earth) right now.

 

[Davidpt]

You promote a false humanistic gospel. What about all the babies in Noah's day? What about all the babies in Sodom? What about all the babies that were destroyed in the old testament?

This means you have no issue with God burning babies and children to a crisp during the 2nd coming? Right? IOW, you find that perfectly acceptable, for example, that a saved mother that recently gave birth to a child, that she is then raptured to safety while her recently born child is left behind in order to be burned to a crisp? BTW, things like this can't happen to begin with when one doesn't take these things recorded in 2 Peter 3:10-12 in a literal sense like that.

 

[Doug]

No, it doesn't help at all. You seem to not be accepting what Jesus taught in Luke 20:34-36 which is that there will be no death in the age to come. The age to come is the age of the eternal new heavens and new earth.

I am saying the same thing as far as I can see..........in the thousand year kingdom there will be death.......in the new heavens and earth there will be no more death

 

[Wrangler]

Do you have eyes to see that a kingdom of this world would mean a kingdom that is evil and worldly rather than righteous and heavenly?

What application is their for Jesus’ authority on Earth IF ‘this world’ is excluded from it?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am saying the same thing as far as I can see..........in the thousand year kingdom there will be death.......in the new heavens and earth there will be no more death

But, you are saying the thousand years is the age to come. No, it is not because there will be no death in the age to come according to Jesus (Luke 20:34-36). Are you familiar with Amillennialism and Premillennialism? You are a Premillennialist and I am an Amillennialist who disagrees with that doctrine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What application is their for Jesus’ authority on Earth IF ‘this world’ is excluded from it?

Did you even read what I said? What more can I do to explain what being "of this world" means? What do you think it means to be "of this world", keeping in mind that while He was on the earth Jesus said He and His followers are not of this world (John 17:21-24)?

 

[Doug]

But, you are saying the thousand years is the age to come

Maybe I didnt make myself clear......I wasnt meaning to say that the world to come is the millennial reign.......the world to come is the new heavens and earth.....we were talking about Jesus saying his kingdom was not of this world and I was saying he was focused on the world to come in the new heavens and earth where he will reign over the nations.......... [Psa 22:28 KJV] 28 For the kingdom [is] the LORD'S: and he [is] the governor among the nations............................[Rev 21:24 KJV] 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

 

[Doug]

Are you familiar with Amillennialism and Premillennialism? You are a Premillennialist and I am an Amillennialist who disagrees with that doctrine

Please expound.....are you saying there is no thousand year kingdom even though the scripture says there is