Limited atonement !
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That is exactly what he is saying, vs 13 could not be more clear. If those verses are not clear to you, then drop down a few, I Cor 15:21-22. It is an equation.
Could you explain to me in vs 18 when it says, as through one man's offense judgement came to all men resulting in condemnation, Now if it is as you say that this is speaking about the elect, where are all those who did not come under the judgement of Adam. Are they still alive since they did not suffer death? Where in Genesis does it speak of some who were not judged to return to dust. There should either be a lot of people living in this world, several millenniums old to date. OR, there were many who lived perfect lives and were translated to eternal life as Adam would have if he did not sin.
As I keep pointing out, you do not understand the ramifications of your theory vis-a-vie scripture.
Ah, so your theology does not need to be consistant. You can pick and choose certain texts or deny most texts of scripture when it does not align with your theory. Explain just how your non-elect could be risen? They were not part of the "all mankind" of I Cor 15:12-22 or I Cor 15:52-53. They were not part of Rom 5:18 either, nor Rom 5:12.
So, once again it is not misrepresentation, according to scripture.
Only because if you included I Cor 15 your whole theory falls apart which is why limited atonement is a false teaching based on scripture. The same context of I Cor 15 carries right through to vs 52-53, All the dead will be raised immortal and incorruptible. Those are the same all dead that Christ by His Incarnation, death and resurrection gave life too. The very same that He will raise in the last day to stand in judgement.
This is why your theory denies that hell even exist because you believe non-elect were never given life so they could stand in judgment. You left them eternally dead, non-existent. They are all still under the condemnation of death, which in I Cor 15:21-22 states clearly that all the dead were given life, The same for Rom 5:12 and 18,
False teaching always shows itself as unscriptural when matched against all of scripture. There are always many inconsistencies.
Heb 2:9 says He tasted death for everyone. It makes it possible for Him to have people believe in Him and have an eternal existence. I John 2:2 says not just for our sins but the sins of the whole world. Well, our sins that Paul references is about the elect, but the rest covers the world of all others.
Again, you show your inconsistancies with the rest of scripture. Actually, per scripture you have not even shown any text that even infers any kind of limitation on Christ's redemptive work.
Runningman
Active Member
Oh ok. The below verses are true or no?
1 John 2
2He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 3
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
I know what those verses say, and they dont say anything about any offer, and they are about the elect
I have already taken time to explain to you my views before. Rom 5:18-19 they are about the elect
Misrepresenting me shows your true character, 1 Cor 15 is about the elect, them in Christ
Runningman
Active Member
The verses I just showed you are not compatible with limited atonement. I am thinking you just don't agree or believe with what the Bible says. It would be difficult to begin with verses that explicitly do not negotiate with a limited style of atonement and then work backwards. Your foundation rests on a few verses that seem to say what your premise is rather than a broad foundation of what the Bible says. I hope that helps. I don't see the need to continue because this will just become an argument thread going forward.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
You still haven't shown us where this is attached to the Gospel message?
Let me help.
As I mentioned, the "gospel" is summarized in this passage:
"Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. 1 Cor. 15:1-4
So where in this message is "limited atonement"?
Furthermore, the theme of this gospel is reiterated throughout the scriptures. So which these following scriptures contains the attached message of limited atonement as you so claim?
Isaiah 53:5
John 3:16
Mark 10:45
Acts 10:43; 13:38-39
Romans 1:16-17; 4:25; 5:8; 6:23; 10:9-10
2 Cor. 5:19
Titus 2:14; 3:4-7
Heb. 9:28
Eph. 2:8-9
1 John 4:10
Matthew 28:18-20
Do a search of any of these scriptures and their context and show me where limited atonement is part of the message?
Limited atonement is the blessed truth that God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ became incarnate in order to satisfy all the conditions of the salvation of God's elect, sheep, His Church and, thereby, acquire for them all grace here and all glory hereafter, an eternal redemption Heb 9:12. Christ's finished work, His bloody sacrifice of His sinless humanity upon the altar of His infinite Deity, was the culmination of His whole work of redemption. This included His incarnation, obedience, and death, as the Representative and Substitute for chosen sinners. He was obedient unto death, even the death of the cross Phil. 2:6-8. Christ's entire satisfaction, the merit of His whole work of mediation, is called the Righteousness of God. This is the only ground of salvation, and it is revealed in the Gospel to those it was specifically for, the elect Rom 1:16-17.Definitely , Christ's righteousness is the entire merit of His whole work of redemption. It was brought in and established by the obedience unto death which Christ Himself accomplished as a Substitute/Surety for His people. Rom 5:19 Christ's righteousness alone demands the salvation of every sinner whom He represented (God's elect). 8
@Ronald David Bruno
I started this thread to show why for my conviction, I cant help it if you dont share the same, nevertheless if you reject limited effectual atonement, you have no Gospel Message that Glorifies God/Christ
I started this thread to show why for my conviction, I cant help it if you dont share the same, nevertheless if you reject limited effectual atonement, you have no Gospel Message that Glorifies God/Christ
The confusion is that yes the word of God is meant for everyone but not everyone is going to respond to the Gospel, some will reject it outright some will turn to evil some are just evil.Not everyone is going to accept it as the truth or have faith in it.It puts salvation into the hands of the person to decide and many will reject it.It is limited atonement based on accepting Jesus as the Savior and having faith in the sacrifice he made.
It is actually described in the Parable of the sower.
“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Ritajanice
Born-Again
(2 Peter 1:1–2) 1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the elect who are exiles of the Dispersion throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, chosena 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. A Living Hope 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birthb into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in various trials 7so that the proven character of your faith—more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 10Concerning this salvation, the prophets who foretold the grace to come to you searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, when they foretold the things now announced by those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. A Call to Holiness (Hebrews 12:14–17) 13Therefore prepare your minds for action.c Be sober-minded. Set your hope fully on the grace to be given you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. 15But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, 16for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”d 17Since you call on a Father who judges each one’s work impartially, conduct yourselves in reverent fear during your stay as foreigners. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot. 20He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake. 21Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him; and so your faith and hope are in God. The Enduring Word (Isaiah 40:6–8) 22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.e 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24For, “All flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, 25but the word of the Lord stands forever.”f And this is the word that was proclaimed to you. |
Runningman
Active Member
The alternative to limited atonement is the Gospel.
The premise of limited atonement is that Jesus’ death on the cross was intended to save only the elect, which are those who are predestined to salvation, but not all of humanity.
Contrary to limited atonement stating salvation is only for the elect...
John 3:16 mentions the world.
1 John 2:2 mentions the whole world.
2 Peter 2:1 mentions unbelievers who were "bought" by the Master.
1 Timothy 2:6 says Jesus was a ransom for all.
2 Corinthians 5:14,15 says Jesus died for all.
Hebrews 2:9 says he tasted death for everyone.
Titus 2:11 says salvation for all people.
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