The Coming Rapture

[Taken]

The pretrib rapture is literally impossible because Jesus makes it clear that the rapture will occur "AFTER that tribulation".

The Seals, Trumps, Bowls ARE 21 Negative Judgements.

Why is God MAD at men who, body, soul, spirit have become MADE Converted?

Please inform us, why God wants, will, Cast negative Judgements and Wrath UPON “His Own Holy Spirit”, that dwells IN converted men??

Why? And the Supporting Scripture?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ewq1938]

The Seals, Trumps, Bowls ARE 21 Negative Judgements.

Especially that negative and peaceful silence in heaven the 7th seal speaks of.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Seals, Trumps, Bowls ARE 21 Negative Judgements.

Why is God MAD at men who, body, soul, spirit have become MADE Converted?

He's not. His wrath is only against unbelievers.

Please inform us, why God wants, will, Cast negative Judgements and Wrath UPON “His Own Holy Spirit”, that dwells IN converted men??

He doesn't want to do that and won't do that. Do you think He is incapable of taking His wrath out on unbelievers without it affecting believers? Look at this, for example...

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Who do you think is commanding the locusts to torment those without the seal of God in their foreheads? It's God doing that. Where are those with the seal of God? On the earth with those who are tormented. Are those with the seal of God affected by this judgment from God? No. So, you are not proving pre-trib at all with this argument you are trying to make here.

Why? And the Supporting Scripture?

Ask your straw man for the supporting scripture as I do not believe that any of God's judgments are against believers.

 

[JLB]

The mortality being swallowed by life means the ability to die is removed, not a reference to the actual mortal body.

No, our actual physical body that is buried will be resurrected.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 1 Corinthians 15:42

 

[ewq1938]

No, our actual physical body that is buried will be resurrected.

Not according to Paul who spoke of a new body that is already in heaven. Can you comment on that?

So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 1 Corinthians 15:42

That is a bad translation. This is better:"

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


See? Not one body, which died and resurrects but TWO BODIES. You are speaking of one body but there isn't one body. One is the mortal body that will die, but a different body will be received, called a spiritual body.

 

[Taken]

He's not. His wrath is only against unbelievers.

Non specific. Vague.

Do you think He is incapable of taking His wrath out on unbelievers without it affecting believers?

Capable? Yes.
Your Way? No.
Gods Way? Yes.

Look at this, for example...

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

And?
Are you one of the 144,000 virgin Tribesmen of ISRAEL, sent to Holy Ground On Mt ZION, Receiving the Seal of God in your Forehead?

Who do you think is commanding the locusts to torment those without the seal of God in their foreheads? It's God doing that. Where are those with the seal of God?

Gods Works are neither in Question or Dispute.

On the earth with those who are tormented.

Specifically ON holy ground ON Mt ZION.

Are those with the seal of God affected by this judgment from God? No.

Are these Sealed all over the world? No.
Are these Sealed specifically ON Holy Ground? Yes.

So, you are not proving pre-trib at all with this argument you are trying to make here.

Are you one of of the 144,000 ?

Ask your straw man for the supporting scripture as I do not believe that any of God's judgments are against believers.

I have asked, and you didn’t answer.

You, Not the Lord God, gives “Converted BELIEVERS” a, re-Make and Escape, to Not be Affected by Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven.

The Lord God, Not you, GIVES …
“Heartful Committed Converted Believers, a MAKE-Over and Escape From the Earth, Before Tribulations and Wrath are Sent down from Heaven”.

Billions of People This Day “Believe” (as you say)…and tomorrow those Same, “can STOP” Believing.

FEW of the worlds Population at ANY given time IN HISTORY, “ARE-CONVERTED Believers”….

YOU LUMP, believers and Converted Believers “Together”… God Expressly “Divides Them.” AND “Separates Them”.. AND “Bodily Raises Them Separatly.

John 10: (Jesus speaking)
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Divided!

1 Thes 4: (Converted “IN” Christ, the Lord RAISES “THEM”, at His Coming….TO the Clouds…Not His Return TO Earth!)
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rapture.

1Thes 4: IF…a non Converted Believer, NOT “IN” Christ…And “IF” one Bodily Dies Believing “IN Jesus and His Resurrection….
IF…THEN…God shall Raise his Body…

And WHEN…you should have heard, read, studied, learned that is called…
The FIRST Resurrection of the Dead..

[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep “in Jesus” will “God” bring with him..

Divided!
In Christ, raised by the Lord, before Trib.
Rapture.

In Jesus, raised by God, after Trib.
First Resurrection.

Gods Order and WAY!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

And as I pointed out, the door was shut................. after the grain harvest.

It is the Jews.........the seed of the woman......the 12 tribes across the earth, that get victory over the beast during the tribulation as the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

Shut Door… same as Shut Door - Dividing those IN the Ark FROM those NOT IN the Ark.

Gen 7:
[16] And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

The Word says alive believers REMAIN UNTIL the coming of the Lord.

Coming of the Lord…
From where TO where?
High Heavens…TO the Clouds
(1 Thes 4: 15 / 16)
Are the Clouds ABOVE the Earth the Lords “RETURN” TO Earth? No.

The only way that is possible is if He comes for the dead in Christ first and then returns for the alive that remain.

No.
You have the Lord Jesus, effecting HIS Moves, according TO YOU.
When The Lord “effects” His Moves, according TO GOD.

The Lord Jesus is IN the High Heavens.
He descends to the Clouds.
He summons UP to Him, they WHO can Hear His Calling.
They (bodily) IN and ON the Earth WHO CAN Hear His Calling…Bodily RISE up to MEET Him, IN the Air, the Clouds…
**That IS NOT Him returning to Earth!

In the AIR, the Clouds, ALL “IN” Christ are “THUS” gathered Together….Risen “IN” their glorified Bodies…invisible to Men “ON” Earth!

Thereafter…
The Son of man ( ie. The Body God Prepared For Human men TO SEE…)
With “His” Saints (invisible to men on Earth) and His Angels (invisible to men on Earth)….”He” SHALL be Seen By ALL, above the Earth, on the Earth, in the Earth…
Sitting ON a White Cloud.
(Still He has NOT Yet Returned to Earth!)

In case you missed it, HOW DID YOU LEARN THERE WILL BE TWO RAPTURES. What website or who taught you????????????

Not two Raptures.

One Rapture;
Exclusively, For those “IN” Christ.

Two Resurrections
First;
Exclusively, for those Having died, (Anciently, historically, modernly, future) believing IN God and Jesus, since knowledge of He was Revealed.
Last;
Exclusively, for those Having died, (Anciently, historically, modernly, future), Rejecting, Denying, believing IN God, IN Jesus, since knowledge of He was Revealed.

You seem to not know the Difference between a Believer and A Converted Believer.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rebuilder 454]

What do you do with the fact that the elect will be gathered from the uttermost part of the earth when Jesus comes AFTER the tribulation? In your view, the elect will all be dead by then. So, what do you think, that the angels will be gathering their dead bodies? LOL.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The pretrib rapture is literally impossible because Jesus makes it clear that the rapture will occur "AFTER that tribulation".

The "uttermost part of the earth" is earth's atmosphere.
( the reason it is "heaven" and "angels" is because it is angels , not Jesus, gathering saints , FROM HEAVEN, to the white horses in Rev 19.


But even if you use "earth" as your point, there are 2 "heaven" references to your one pinpoint.
So naturally some will ignore the 2 heaven references gathering altogether.
Even though it is incorporated twice as much

But that is so minor.
I have CONCLUSIVELY Demonstrated via revelation 14., and the last supper dialogue, and actschapter one, And Matthew 25, and Matthew 24. ( The ones taken and the ones left behind.)
And the fact that the Antichrist kills every man woman and child without the mark.
And the fact that the Antichrist is given power to overcome the saints.
And the fact that they overcame the antichrist via martyrdom.
So we know for a fact there's no such thing as a middle, or post trib rapture.

 

[JLB]

Not according to Paul who spoke of a new body that is already in heaven. Can you comment on that?

I have commented on that.

The new body we will have at the resurrection is eternal, and comes from God not from man, as our natural body we have came by procreation.

The new resurrected body we will receive at His coming will be like Jesus’ body.


Jesus received His eternal resurrected body on earth when He was raised from the dead. He spent three days and nights in the heart of the earth, and on the third day He rose.

His same body that was in the tomb was changed. He still had the nail prints in His hands and the wound in His side.

Likewise it will be the same for us.


in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
1 Corinthians 15:52-54

• For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

• “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Our dead bodies will put on a new immortal body.

Our dead bodies will be swallowed up with life.

 

[The Light]

Are the Clouds ABOVE the Earth the Lords “RETURN” TO Earth? No.

I'm missing the part where I said it was.

No.
You have the Lord Jesus, effecting HIS Moves, according TO YOU.
When The Lord “effects” His Moves, according TO GOD.

I have the Lord effecting HIS moves according to me? According to you.

I just understand that barley is not harvested the same time as wheat.

The Lord Jesus is IN the High Heavens.
He descends to the Clouds.
He summons UP to Him, they WHO can Hear His Calling.
They (bodily) IN and ON the Earth WHO CAN Hear His Calling…Bodily RISE up to MEET Him, IN the Air, the Clouds…
**That IS NOT Him returning to Earth!

If I have said different............what is the post # and what is my quote?

In the AIR, the Clouds, ALL “IN” Christ are “THUS” gathered Together….Risen “IN” their glorified Bodies…invisible to Men “ON” Earth!

When the Lord comes for the Church He will be visible ONLY to Christians. When the Lord comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal, all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. All will go to heaven for the marriage supper during the seventh seal wrath of God.

Thereafter…
The Son of man ( ie. The Body God Prepared For Human men TO SEE…)
With “His” Saints (invisible to men on Earth) and His Angels (invisible to men on Earth)….”He” SHALL be Seen By ALL, above the Earth, on the Earth, in the Earth…
Sitting ON a White Cloud.
(Still He has NOT Yet Returned to Earth!)

This is the rapture at the 6th seal (the second rapture) when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. He will remain in the clouds and send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper and those on earth are cast into the wrath of God. Those in the nation of Israel to fled to a place of protection will remain on the earth during the wrath of God.

Not two Raptures.

One Rapture;
Exclusively, For those “IN” Christ.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests. The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest. But they served Baalpeor. The Gentiles become the first harvest. After this harvest blindness is removed from part of Israel. Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest.

You seem to not know the Difference between a Believer and A Converted Believer.

If I use the term Christian will that help you?

You seem to not know the difference between the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God.

 

[Davy]

I post verses.
You deflect and omit, then bizarrely point to Hal Lindsay.
Nothing new.
Carry on

Now you have reverted to lies, simply because you show you cannot handle the Bible Scriptures as written.

Lord Jesus was clear in His 'direct' statements of Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 showing that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation.


That means the Church will... be here still alive on earth going through... that coming "great tribulation".

And the Biblical FACT of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and Mark 13:27, is that Christ when He comes after that tribulation, He gathers His still alive saints from the earth, their being "caught up" to Him per Paul in 1 Thess.4:17.

That means NOT ALL of Christ's Church will be delivered up to give that Testimony of Mark 13 against the beast with The Holy Spirit speaking through them.

As a matter of fact, Lord Jesus when speaking to those of the Church of Philadelphia, because they KEPT His Word of patience, Jesus said He will keep them from the "hour of temptation", which is actually about NOT being deceived by the coming false-Messiah in Jerusalem when he gets here.

But how do the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors treat that "hour of temptation" idea? They instead inject a false pre-trib rapture into that, showing how deceived they are.

And deception in wanting to 'fly away' and PHYSICALLY escape the coming "great tribulation" is exactly the stuff that authors like Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye wrote, nothing but sensationalism appealing to deceived brethren who refuse... to actually study their Bible for themselves. And LaHaye wrote something like, what... 13 books with his false Left-Behind series??

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The Seals, Trumps, Bowls ARE 21 Negative Judgements.

Why is God MAD at men who, body, soul, spirit have become MADE Converted?

Please inform us, why God wants, will, Cast negative Judgements and Wrath UPON “His Own Holy Spirit”, that dwells IN converted men??

Why? And the Supporting Scripture?

Glory to God,
Taken

You wrote ‘The Seals, Trumps, Bowls ARE 21 Negative Judgements.

Why is God MAD at men who, body, soul, spirit have become MADE Converted?’(Does it have to mean God is mad at men reconciled unto Him? Why can’t it be so they share in His Holiness?

You wrote ‘Please inform us, why God wants, will, Cast negative Judgements and Wrath UPON “His Own Holy Spirit”, that dwells IN converted men??’ < if what you said here is true God will not cast anything negative upon His Holy Spirit, then we might want to rethink what is said often that Jesus Christ has Bourne God’s Wrath in our stead. Which (Imo) is a contradiction to why would God cast anything negative upon His Holy Spirit? What of the Crucifixion where Peter begged Jesus not to go, yet Jesus said “Get behind me Satan. I must go”
if what you said here is true God will not cast anything negative upon His Holy Spirit, then we might want to rethink: Isaiah 53:2-10 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he has no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. [3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. [4] Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. [6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. [7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. [8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. [9] And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. [10] Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
^1 Peter 4:1-2Forasmuch then as Christ has suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin; [2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
^regardless of whether you believe in the rapture before or after. To ask why God would pour out wrath on Those who have been made Sons and have His Holy Spirit within? Think of the furnace in the Old Testament turned up 7 times hotter…and they saw men walking in the Fire unharmed, their being bound no more. But wait …I see another with them!?!? Walking in the Fire. Tons of our assertions, where we refuse to consider anything that destroys those assertions.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Now you have reverted to lies, simply because you show you cannot handle the Bible Scriptures as written.

Lord Jesus was clear in His 'direct' statements of Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 showing that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation.


That means the Church will... be here still alive on earth going through... that coming "great tribulation".

And the Biblical FACT of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and Mark 13:27, is that Christ when He comes after that tribulation, He gathers His still alive saints from the earth, their being "caught up" to Him per Paul in 1 Thess.4:17.

That means NOT ALL of Christ's Church will be delivered up to give that Testimony of Mark 13 against the beast with The Holy Spirit speaking through them.

As a matter of fact, Lord Jesus when speaking to those of the Church of Philadelphia, because they KEPT His Word of patience, Jesus said He will keep them from the "hour of temptation", which is actually about NOT being deceived by the coming false-Messiah in Jerusalem when he gets here.

But how do the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors treat that "hour of temptation" idea? They instead inject a false pre-trib rapture into that, showing how deceived they are.

And deception in wanting to 'fly away' and PHYSICALLY escape the coming "great tribulation" is exactly the stuff that authors like Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye wrote, nothing but sensationalism appealing to deceived brethren who refuse... to actually study their Bible for themselves. And LaHaye wrote something like, what... 13 books with his false Left-Behind series??

You da man!!!
Carry on !!!!
You really showed em!!!!
Your greatness in your brochure is impressive!!!

 

[rebuilder 454]

I'm missing the part where I said it was.

I have the Lord effecting HIS moves according to me? According to you.

I just understand that barley is not harvested the same time as wheat.


If I have said different............what is the post # and what is my quote?


When the Lord comes for the Church He will be visible ONLY to Christians. When the Lord comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal, all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. All will go to heaven for the marriage supper during the seventh seal wrath of God.

This is the rapture at the 6th seal (the second rapture) when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. He will remain in the clouds and send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper and those on earth are cast into the wrath of God. Those in the nation of Israel to fled to a place of protection will remain on the earth during the wrath of God.



Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests. The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest. But they served Baalpeor. The Gentiles become the first harvest. After this harvest blindness is removed from part of Israel. Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest.

If I use the term Christian will that help you?

You seem to not know the difference between the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God.

QUOTE
"When the Lord comes for the Church He will be visible ONLY to Christians. When the Lord comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal, all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. All will go to heaven for the marriage supper during the seventh seal wrath of God."

IT does not say that. It is not said or infered that Jesus sitting on a cloud is visible to all.

Have you read Rev 6, 7 and 8?????

That is NOT CHRONOLOGICAL.
NO WAY.
BUT if you insist it is, then the Tribes are sealed AFTER they are gathered in Rev 14.
The stinging scorpions are told to "not harm them" after they have left earth.

The innumerable number are from every nation, which , in your timeline of 6th seal , is AFTER the Jews are Gathered.
In fact the Jews are gathered after the innumerable number and AFTER they are sealed.
Read all of Rev 6,7, and eight carefully.
It is jumping around and NOT in chronological order.
So anyone can take a bad starting place,and make their DOCTRINE fit , after carefully torturing it for their own fitment.

 

[rebuilder 454]

"""I just understand that barley is not harvested the same time as wheat."""

Barley ....1 these 4, last supper dialogue, acts 1 " like manner", mat 25 virgins parable, mat 24 "one taken/left",

Wheat... the innumerable number (billions?) In heaven DURING THE GT.

FRUIT... Jews.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

YOU LUMP, believers and Converted Believers “Together”… God Expressly “Divides Them.” AND “Separates Them”.. AND “Bodily Raises Them Separatly.

This is not taught anywhere in scripture. Nowhere does scripture speak of "believers" and "Converted Believers", whatever that even means. You speak nothing but gibberish and you can't be "Taken" seriously at all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The "uttermost part of the earth" is earth's atmosphere.

LOL. You can't be taken seriously even a tiny bit when you say nonsense like this. Tell me exactly how the elect will be gathered from the earth's atmosphere? Who are the elect that hang out in the earth's atmosphere that the angels will be gathering? LOL. Such nonsense.

( the reason it is "heaven" and "angels" is because it is angels , not Jesus, gathering saints , FROM HEAVEN, to the white horses in Rev 19.


But even if you use "earth" as your point, there are 2 "heaven" references to your one pinpoint.

LOL. What is your point here? What difference does this make?

So naturally some will ignore the 2 heaven references gathering altogether.

I don't ignore that, liar. The ones gathered from heaven are the souls of the dead in Christ. The ones gathered from earth are the resurrected dead in Christ who unite with their souls and those who are alive and remain. Very simple.

Even though it is incorporated twice as much

LOL. As if that means anything at all! LOL. You are hilarious. That Matthew 24:31 doesn't refer to the elect being gathered from the earth does not change the fact that it is recorded in Mark 13:27 and doesn't make Mark 13:27 any less true. Good grief, your comments are more ridiculous than anyone could even imagine.

 

[Taken]

I'm missing the part where I said it was.

I have the Lord effecting HIS moves according to me? According to you.

I just understand that barley is not harvested the same time as wheat.


If I have said different............what is the post # and what is my quote?


When the Lord comes for the Church He will be visible ONLY to Christians. When the Lord comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal, all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. All will go to heaven for the marriage supper during the seventh seal wrath of God.

This is the rapture at the 6th seal (the second rapture) when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. He will remain in the clouds and send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper and those on earth are cast into the wrath of God. Those in the nation of Israel to fled to a place of protection will remain on the earth during the wrath of God.



Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests. The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest. But they served Baalpeor. The Gentiles become the first harvest. After this harvest blindness is removed from part of Israel. Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest.

What a mess.

If I use the term Christian will that help you?

Wondering if adding More confusion would be helpful? Funny!

You seem to not know the difference between the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God.

Not an issue.

* Anger is a negative EMOTION of God.
* Gods INCREASED Emotion of Anger IS WAXING.
* Waxed Anger Manifested IS WRATH.
* Wrath of God, IS Godly Sanctioned Tribulations Sent Down from Heaven.
* Tribulations SENT down from Heaven, Are 7 Seals Judgements, 4 Trumps Judgements, 3 Woes Judgements, 5th, 6Th, 7th Trumps Judgements, 7 Bowls Judgements.

They IN Christ, ARE excepted, Not appointed to Suffer the Wraths God HAS Sanctioned.
They Are Escaped, Delivered FROM, the Wrath to come upon the Whole Earth and it’s Occupants…WHO are Not Marked/ in their Foreheads With the Seal of God.

Only 144,000 of the Tribes of ISRAEL ARE marked with Gods SEAL on their foreheads.

Will there be, millions upon the face of the Earth, Believing, Rejecting, Denying, God, without the Seal / Mark upon their Forehead, and Suffer the Tribulations Sent down From Heaven? Uh yes!

WHO definitively will Not be upon the face of the Earth during Gods Sanctioned Tribulations Sent down from Heaven?
Dead and buried Men.
ManKIND that IS “IN” Christ!

 

[Taken]

This is not taught anywhere in scripture. Nowhere does scripture speak of "believers" and "Converted Believers", whatever that even means. You speak nothing but gibberish and you can't be "Taken" seriously at all.

You per usual are mistaken.

A believer, can Believe one day and another day NOT Believe.

Scripture gives knowledge of Conversion.
Seems you are unfamiliar with such teaching…and unknowing of How one becomes Converted.

Pss 51:

1. [13] Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Isa.60​

1. [5] Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

Matt.13​

1. [15] For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should beconverted, and I should heal them.

Matt.18​

1. [3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye beconverted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mark.4​

1. [12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luke.22​

1. [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

John.12​

1. [40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Acts.3​

1. [19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts.28​

1. [27] For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You per usual are mistaken.

A believer, can Believe one day and another day NOT Believe.

Scripture gives knowledge of Conversion.
Seems you are unfamiliar with such teaching…and unknowing of How one becomes Converted.

I know how someone is converted. Show me where scripture talks about believers and contrasts them with converted believers.

Pss 51:

1. [13] Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

How does this contrast believers with converted believers? It's talking about sinners being converted. They're not converted until they believe. You make no sense. I can say the same thing about the other verses that you try to use to support this idea that comes only from your imagination and not from scripture.