JOHN 14:12 WHATSOEVER YOU ASK

[Doug]

I’m not understanding do you think a day has yet to come when God will make a new covenant with Israel

[Eze 36:24, 26 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. ... 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The new covenant will be made when Israel is given the promised land

 

[VictoryinJesus]

[Eze 36:24, 26 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. ... 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The new covenant will be made when Israel is given the promised land

If we look at the parables the ground is the heart. The New heart God gives unto you …it is out of the New Heart Christ is being formed, the Spirit of Christ, seed, flourishing and bearing Fruit unto God. He is the promised land. (Imo) the good ground (which God gives)which bears Fruit unto God. Not in stony ground. It still fits with all God said He will do as promised unto them.
“I will bring you into your own land” odd how we even acknowledge some plant, some water(what land?), but it is God who gives the increase.

 

[Doug]

“I will bring you into your own land” odd how we even acknowledge some plant, some water(what land?),

All the land promised Abraham..................[Gen 15:18 KJV] 18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

All the land promised Abraham..................[Gen 15:18 KJV] 18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

We could go back and forth for weeks. Thanks for clarifying your perspective.

 

[Keiw]

Few on earth DO know the REAL JESUS . now that statement in and of itself is TRUE .
SO , so how does one truly truly know if the jesus they follow IS THE TRUE JESUS .
OH the answer is real simple . IN fact its so simple a child can know it .
But what says you .

His teachings in every translation on Earth are the same-( except some have land instead of Earth at Matt 5:5 to try to mislead)--Those teachings back the JW,s all the way.

 

[Wick Stick]

Is God’s purpose a new covenant he will make only in those days with Israel and Judah or > and again, I don’t see how the New Covenant is not the New Testament of God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The New covenant actually started in Old Testament times. Here's the prophet Jeremiah talking about it:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This "new" covenant actually started right after the return from Babylon. It can be observed historically that the Jews after the captivity stopped worshiping idols and foreign gods almost completely.

But what Doug would like to convince you, is that Jesus was an Old Testament prophet, that Paul preached an entirely different gospel, and that you should follow Paul rather than Jesus. This, of course, is a little crazy, since Paul himself warns us not to do that.

 

[Wick Stick]

His teachings in every translation on Earth are the same-( except some have land instead of Earth at Matt 5:5 to try to mislead)--Those teachings back the JW,s all the way.

What were Jesus' teachings? I find many believers have a hard time producing a concise list of them. Clearly, His own death and resurrection are only hinted at, so what was the core of His doctrine?

 

[Keiw]

What were Jesus' teachings? I find many believers have a hard time producing a concise list of them. Clearly, His own death and resurrection are only hinted at, so what was the core of His doctrine?

His Fathers name and his Fathers will and his Fathers kingdom=the 3 most important things for all involved.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The New covenant actually started in Old Testament times. Here's the prophet Jeremiah talking about it:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This "new" covenant actually started right after the return from Babylon. It can be observed historically that the Jews after the captivity stopped worshiping idols and foreign gods almost completely.

But what Doug would like to convince you, is that Jesus was an Old Testament prophet, that Paul preached an entirely different gospel, and that you should follow Paul rather than Jesus. This, of course, is a little crazy, since Paul himself warns us not to do that.

I’m so confused with what you both are saying. This New covenant God will make writing not in tables made of stone, but the Spirit of God writes them on fleshly tables of the heart.
Hebrews 7:20-28 And it was not without an oath. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath, [21] but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him: "The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, 'You are a priest forever.'" [22] This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant. [23] The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, [24] but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. [25] Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. [26] For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. [27] He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. [28] For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews 8:4-8 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: [5] Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. [6] But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. [7] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new (better) covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


2 Corinthians 3:2-6 You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3] Forasmuch as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [4] And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: [5] Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; [6] Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills , but the spirit giveth life.



This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant.
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry (who has also made us able ministers of the New Testament), by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
As promised …Behold, the days come, says the Lord, when I will make a new (better) covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; <written on the inwards parts, within the heart.

the letter kills , but the spirit gives life.
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

^all that is why I’m confused by what you both say. Did God do what He promised He would do in making a better (new)covenant established on better promises, with a better Ministry given which is the Ministration of the Spirit which kills not but gives Life? having a High Priest over the House of God which is not prevented by death which makes Him different from all men with infirmities prevented by death from continuing.

 

[amigo de christo]

What were Jesus' teachings? I find many believers have a hard time producing a concise list of them. Clearly, His own death and resurrection are only hinted at, so what was the core of His doctrine?

The core of His doctrine .
YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS , for IF YE BELIEVE NOT that I AM HE ye shall die in your sins .
HE who beleives IS NOT CONDEMNED but he who believes NOT is condemned already for he has NOT
beleived in the name of the ONLY begotten SON of GOD .
What must we do to do the works of GOD .
BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND . that is the CORE .
TO BELIEVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST , TO KEEP , to LEARN adn TO HEED all things HE did say .
NOT to twist and omit His words and pick and choose only what parts we want to heed and beleive .
JESUS told the unbeleiving jews
HAD YOU LOVED GOD you would have LOVED ME for i came forth OF GOD .
but they didnt beleive HE was WHO HE IS . YE shall DIE IN YOUR SINS if you beleive NOT that JESUS IS THE CHRIST .
And unto all who truly do so they have THE SPIRIT by which HE WORKS IN US
the works of GOD that are pleasing to GOD .
HE who hears us IS OF GOD
HE who hears us not IS NOT of GOD . the real apostels both knew and taught TRUTH . i suggest we do THE SAME .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The New covenant actually started in Old Testament times. Here's the prophet Jeremiah talking about it:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I’m not saying this is right but in considering what you said about the New covenant started in Old Testament times …and then what Jeremiah foretold of…. I can see where there may be some truth to what you said. In >
1 Peter 1:10-12 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, [11] inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. [12] It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.

Considering the Nature of the Spirit where Jesus Christ became poor that others be made rich towards God. Also, the Spirit of Christ in Paul which Nature of the Spirit of Christ reveals again “for this cause we will be weak, that you be made strong”
Also, in those who “prophesied about the grace that was to be yours” and also “they were serving not themselves but you,”
How much more manifest can the Spirit of Christ be in them then revealing “they were not serving themselves but you.” As Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow:
1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Acts 13:32-33 And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, [33] this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm, "'You are my Son, today I have begotten you.'

Over and over again the Spirit of Christ …is not seeking your own profit, but the profit of many. time and time again…Philippians 2:3-5 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. [4] Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Was this mind (which mind was also in Christ Jesus) also in those who “prophesied about the grace that was to be yours” and also “they were serving not themselves but you,”

 

[Doug]

^all that is why I’m confused by what you both say. Did God do what He promised He would do in making a better (new)covenant established on better promises, with a better Ministry given which is the Ministration of the Spirit which kills not but gives Life? having a High Priest over the House of God which is not prevented by death which makes Him different from all men with infirmities prevented by death from continuing.

Yes Jesus is surety of a better covenant being made a priest after the order of Melchizedek as you say
The new covenant has not been put into effect yet............... [Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land..............Israel is not in the promised land yet

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes Jesus is surety of a better covenant being made a priest after the order of Melchizedek as you say
The new covenant has not been put into effect yet............... [Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land..............Israel is not in the promised land yet

i get what you are saying concerning land. But there is another perspective of land which shouldn’t be ignored. (Imo).
Isaiah 44:3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land(as He said I will give to those who thirst), and streams on the dry ground; I will pour my Spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants.

And
Hebrews 6:4-9 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. [7] For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. (sounds like those who 8] But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned. [9] Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things-things that belong to salvation.


To me it’s like in the beginning where Adam and Eve were told to be fruitful and multiply. There is procreating in having offspring that populates the earth. But there is (again Imo) an undeniable difference in “to be fruitful and multiply” spoken of regarding the offspring of Christ, spiritual children born unto God. Where Adam and Eve didn’t fail to produces children born after the flesh. Yet Christ upholds “be fruitful and multiple” which increase is of God. We should be able to discern the difference in that born of flesh, and that born of Spirit.

Same is attire or decked with jewels in outward adornments and all the cups and gold and silver adorning churches…yet there is a difference in those things and the adornments of the fruit of the Spirit of God. Peace, love, mercy, patience, long-suffering, brotherly kindness…

I do get what you assert of the land promised. But I don’t think that is what is better but instead the ground of the heart where God pours His Spirit. More than dirt is the land God dresses, that land promised bringing forth the Fruit of Christ.

 

[Keiw]

Yes Jesus is surety of a better covenant being made a priest after the order of Melchizedek as you say
The new covenant has not been put into effect yet............... [Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land..............Israel is not in the promised land yet

It was actually speaking to those would be Gods chosen--These follow Jesus. Judaism does not, they have rejected him for over 2000 years give or take.

 

[Jack]

It was actually speaking to those would be Gods chosen--These follow Jesus. Judaism does not, they have rejected him for over 2000 years give or take.

Luke 1:68
68 Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people,

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Luke 1:68
68 Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people,

What of
Romans 9:6-8 Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

These follow Jesus. Judaism does not,

What does that mean to you?

 

[Jack]

What of
Romans 9:6-8 Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Another Israel wannabee?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Another Israel wannabee?

Nope. I asked you what it means to you.

 

[Jack]

Nope. I asked you what it means to you.

Israel was still God's people even tho they forsook Him.

Luke 1:68
68 "Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people,

 

[soberxp]

Another Israel wannabee?

Romans
2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.