To the only God our Savior

[Matthias]

Jesus is Yahweh to us. Hold firmly to this thought. It is the bedrock, undeveloped, christology of New Testament Jewish monotheism.

The Church gradually developed it (over a period of several centuries) and thereby moved from primitive Christianity to Nicene Christianity.

 

[Matthias]

Yes. Yahweh and Jesus. Father and Son. God and Messiah.

Jesus wasn’t and isn’t Yahweh. Jesus is Yahweh to us.

***

Jesus himself didn’t talk / pray to himself. Jesus himself talked / prayed to Yahweh himself.

Yahweh is the God of Jesus. Jesus is not the God of Yahweh.

 

[soberxp]

Jesus once asked me, who do you think I am? I could not answer at that time.
He is the son of man and son of God.
He is the way of life.
He is the second Adam.
He is the living word of God in the flesh.
He is the image of the God.
He is the Messiah.
He is my lord and my God(my word of God,the word was God.).
He is the way that I could go to the Father.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus once asked me, who do you think I am? I could not answer at that time.
He is the son of man and son of God.
He is the way of life.
He is the second Adam.
He is the living word of God in the flesh.
He is the image of the God.
He is the Messiah.
He is my lord and my God(my word of God,the word was God.).
He is the way that I could go to the Father.

His God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Has Jesus told you that?

 

[David Lamb]

Yahweh is the God of Jesus. Jesus is not the God of Yahweh.

Well, John 1:1-3 says:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

It is clear from verse 14 that by "the Word", John is referring to Jesus Christ:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

 

[soberxp]

His God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Has Jesus told you that?

Unfortunately, he didn't tell me the answer directly. But I saw a vision of Jesus on the cross, the soldiers who stabbed him praying before him, and a huge face of an old man with a long beard laughing beside him, He's on Jesus' left, Jesus is on his right.. I think the old man with the beard is the Yahweh.

 

[Matthias]

Well, John 1:1-3 says:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 NKJV)

Please quote the passage to me using the Geneva Bible.

It is clear from verse 14 that by "the Word", John is referring to Jesus Christ:

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 NKJV)

 

[Matthias]

Unfortunately, he didn't tell me the answer directly. But I saw a vision of Jesus on the cross, the soldiers who stabbed him praying before him, and a huge face of an old man with a long beard laughing beside him. I think the old man with the beard is the Yahweh.

Jesus affirmed that his Jewish contemporaries believe in God. Then he asked them to also believe in him (John 14:1).

Let’s reverse that. You believe in Jesus. Believe also in God.

Jesus isn’t asking anyone to believe in God and also in God. Jesus is asking everyone to believe in Yahweh himself and also in Jesus himself.

If someone doesn’t believe in Yahweh, they don’t believe in God.

Yahweh is the God of the Jews.

 

[David Lamb]

Please quote the passage to me using the Geneva Bible.

Willingly. Here is John 1:1-3:

“In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. This same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 GenevaBible)

And verse 14:

“And that Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw the glory thereof, as the glory of the only begotten Son of the Father) full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 GenevaBible)

Incidentally, verse 14 shows that the use of "it" for the Word is not the best translation.

 

[Matthias]

Willingly. Here is John 1:1-3:

“In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. This same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.” (Joh 1:1-3 GenevaBible)

And verse 14:

“And that Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw the glory thereof, as the glory of the only begotten Son of the Father) full of grace and truth.” (Joh 1:14 GenevaBible)

Incidentally, verse 14 shows that the use of "it" for the Word is not the best translation.

Thank you. The Geneva Bible rendering is precisely what I believe, teach and preach.

P.S.

All English translations published before 1611 directly from Greek render the prologue in the same manner the Geneva Bible does. It accurately captures John’s allusion to the Genesis creation and retains the Old Testament meaning of the Hebrew word equivalent of the Greek logos. it caused no problems for the Reformers. They were, and remained, trinitarian.

Many English translations published since 1611 follow the same idea that is presented in the Geneva Bible.

It allows John to be what he is - a 1st century Jewish monotheist who believed that a fellow 1st century Jewish monotheist (Jesus the Nazarene) is the Messiah promised, raised up and sent by Yahweh.

 

[GeneZ]

Yes. Yahweh and Jesus. Father and Son. God and Messiah.

Jesus wasn’t and isn’t Yahweh. Jesus is Yahweh to us.

***

Jesus himself didn’t talk / pray to himself. Jesus himself talked / prayed to Yahweh himself.

What do you mean by Yahweh?

The Father is not the Son.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

God would not be a Trinity if all were the same.
But, as each one is?
Each one is the same God behind it all being God.

 

[Matthias]

What do you mean by Yahweh?

The personal name of the Messiah’s God and Father.

The Father is not the Son.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

God would not be a Trinity if all were the same.
But, as each one is?
Each one is the same God behind it all being God.

 

[Matthias]

I didn’t think it was necessary for me to say that the Trinity isn’t the Messiah’s God but maybe it is. For the sake of clarity, I am.

The Messiah is a Jewish monotheist. By definition, that places him outside the category of trinitarian.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

“to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.”

(Jude 1:25, NASB)

Who is “the only God our Savior” in this verse?

Is it not one person, the Father, who Jude has in mind here?

Is it not Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus Messiah, who saves us through the Messiah our lord (Psalm 110:1)?

Typically, the New Testament writers use the title "God" for God the Father, while they refer to Jesus as "Lord." The Hebrew word "Yahweh" is three Persons in one God, as the Gospel of John clearly shows. Jesus definitely identifies himself as the second Person of Yahweh in the account of the burning bush (Exodus 3:6,13,14; 4:5) with his many "I am" claims in that gospel:

Exo 3:6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Exo 4:5 “that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”

Jhn_6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Jhn_8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness but will have the light of life.”

Jhn_8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Jhn_9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Jhn_10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Jhn_10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Jhn_10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,

Jhn_11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

Jhn_14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jhn_15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
Jhn_15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

I didn’t think it was necessary for me to say that the Trinity isn’t the Messiah’s God but maybe it is. For the sake of clarity, I am.

The Messiah is a Jewish monotheist. By definition, that places him outside the category of trinitarian.

Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah @Matthias?

 

[Matthias]

Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah @Matthias?

You can’t possibly have read my posts and ask me that question. So much of what I post here is nothing but words scattered in the wind, even after almost three years of posting.

Do I believe that Jesus is the Messiah? Yes.

 

[Matthias]

Typically, the New Testament writers use the title "God" for God the Father, while they refer to Jesus as "Lord." The Hebrew word "Yahweh" is three Persons in one God, as the Gospel of John clearly shows. Jesus definitely identifies himself as the second Person of Yahweh in the account of the burning bush (Exodus 3:6,13,14; 4:5) with his many "I am" claims in that gospel:

Exo 3:6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

Exo 4:5 “that they may believe that the LORD, the God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has appeared to you.”

Jhn_6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

Jhn_8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness but will have the light of life.”

Jhn_8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Jhn_9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Jhn_10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.

Jhn_10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Jhn_10:14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,

Jhn_11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

Jhn_14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jhn_15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
Jhn_15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

You aren’t reading scripture written by a Jew about a Jew like a Jew. You’re reading it like a trinitarian.

 

[GeneZ]

The personal name of the Messiah’s God and Father.

We are to call Him "Father."

I did not call my human father by his first name.

 

[Matthias]

We are to call Him "Father."

It doesn’t change the fact that his personal name is Yahweh.

He is addressed by his personal name thousands of times (6,828) in the Hebrew Bible.

 

[GeneZ]

It doesn’t change the fact that his personal name is Yahweh.

Its disrespectful to call even your human parent by his name.

It saddens me to see believers getting caught up in 'clique dogma' so they can draw attention to themself when entering into a meeting of the saints.
It only serves to cause division......
Unlike the Son and Holy Spirit, The Father has only one nature.
We can call the Son, Jesus, because He is also having a human nature.

Better we grow in doctrine in grace as to mature in Christ.


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