Is the Judgment Seat of Christ separate from the Great White Throne Judgment?

[Davy]

Many bible teachers are claiming the believers will be facing the Judgment Seat of Christ, while the unbelievers will be facing the Great White Throne judgment. It is also being taught that these judgments shall take place separately. Does the scriptures support that teaching? Let's see what the Bible says...

John 5:22 (KJV)
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

Matthew 16:27 (KJV)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 22:12 (KJV)
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I hope these verses are enough for everybody to understand that Jesus Christ will be the one sitting at the Great White Throne to judge every man, including unbelievers according to their works.

So, what did our scholars missed? Simple... the judgment seat of Christ (Romans 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10) is the same as the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). What John described as a great white throne, Paul simply called it the judgment seat of Christ.

You won't find other books in the Bible where an author other than Paul mentioned the judgment seat of Christ. And you won't find a verse where Paul mentioned a great white throne.

Hope this post helps introduce some of you to the next level of understanding the Scriptures. Just make sure to ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding. You will be thrilled to realize how much heavenly truth we don't yet know.

I have to LAUGH at your LIMITED COVERAGE of that TOPIC!

You obviously thought to push a certain agenda of men with that, because you completely bypassed the future events written of about the unsaved and wicked still existing AFTER Christ's future return and separation of His sheep from the goats.

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

That above verse has NEVER happened during this present world, nor will it happen during this present world. That "synagogue of Satan" is about Christ's greatest enemies, servants of the devil.

ONLY... during Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 will that above verse happen. That is when those of that "synagogue of Satan" will bow at the feet of Christ's elect to worship Him.

So if your post was an attempt to support man's FALSE theory of Amillennialism, it definitely failed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have to LAUGH at your LIMITED COVERAGE of that TOPIC!

You obviously thought to push a certain agenda of men with that, because you completely bypassed the future events written of about the unsaved and wicked still existing AFTER Christ's future return and separation of His sheep from the goats.

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

That above verse has NEVER happened during this present world, nor will it happen during this present world. That "synagogue of Satan" is about Christ's greatest enemies, servants of the devil.

ONLY... during Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 will that above verse happen. That is when those of that "synagogue of Satan" will bow at the feet of Christ's elect to worship Him.p

So if your post was an attempt to support man's FALSE theory of Amillennialism, it definitely failed.

You just failed once again to refute Amillennialism. Where does Revelation 3:9 say that those who say they are Jews, and are not, will come and worship before the feet of those believers in the church of Philadelphia for a thousand years? Nowhere. That will happen at the judgment AFTER the thousand years when every knee will bow before Jesus and confess that He is Lord. They will do so just before being cast into the lake o fire.

 

[Davy]

You just failed once again to refute Amillennialism. Where does Revelation 3:9 say that those who say they are Jews, and are not, will come and worship before the feet of those believers in the church of Philadelphia for a thousand years? Nowhere. That will happen at the judgment AFTER the thousand years when every knee will bow before Jesus and confess that He is Lord. They will do so just before being cast into the lake o fire.

LOL, what I posted completely DESTROYED... man's False theory of Amillennialism!

And the FACT that you BYPASSED Bible Scripture about Christ's future REIGN over the wicked (which we now know you INTENTIONALLY bypassed), it only proves you are on a False Agenda FROM MEN'S DOCTRINES, and NOT staying in God's Word as written.

It would take me quite a bit of time to quote the many Bible Scriptures about Christ's FUTURE REIGN OVER THE WICKED for AFTER His future coming, but here's just a few which YOU INTENTIONALLY BYPASSED...

Zechariah 14:16-19 is one of the best evidences.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 that Christ MUST reign over all His enemies, their being made His footstool.

The Revelation 3:9 verse I already mentioned, when the FALSE Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" will be made to come worship Christ at the feet of His elect in Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

The Psalms 2 Scripture about Christ's future reign over the nations with the "rod of iron".

The Revelation 2:25-27 Scripture where Jesus says those who overcome in Him remaining faithful to the end will reign with Him over the nations with that "rod of iron" of Psalms 2.

Isaiah 60 points to Arab Islamic nations that will come worship Jesus Christ in His future Kingdom after His future return, and that is linked to the Zechariah 14:16-19 Scripture about Egypt, etc.

And then of course the Revelation 20 Chapter which reveals Christ's future "thousand years" LITERAL REIGN over the unsaved nations AFTER His future return. And per the Revelation 20:7-9 Scripture, we learn that when Satan is loosed one final time after Christ's future "thousand years" reign, that Satan will lead the 'deceived' and wicked one final time against that "camp of the saints" on earth at the "beloved city" on earth, which means Christ's Church in the holy land of the future. That proves... beyond all doubt, that Christ's future REIGN over the nations with the "rod of iron" INCLUDES unsaved nations that will still rebel during that future Millennium.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL, what I posted completely DESTROYED... man's False theory of Amillennialism!

LOL!!! Not even close, bud. Leave the Amil vs. Premil debate to people who actually know what they're talking about and stick to defending post-trib instead. You're not half bad at doing that.

And the FACT that you BYPASSED Bible Scripture about Christ's future REIGN over the wicked (which we now know you INTENTIONALLY bypassed), it only proves you are on a False Agenda FROM MEN'S DOCTRINES, and NOT staying in God's Word as written.

Comments like this are an utter WASTE of time. Your time. So, if you insist on wasting time like this, that's on you.

It would take me quite a bit of time to quote the many Bible Scriptures about Christ's FUTURE REIGN OVER THE WICKED for AFTER His future coming,

LOL. There are NONE, so it would take no time at all.

but here's just a few which YOU INTENTIONALLY BYPASSED...

Zechariah 14:16-19 is one of the best evidences.

Which I have already refuted MANY times and have NEVER bypassed it. Your lies do nothing to support your case. It just makes you a liar.

Do you understand that interpreting Zechariah 14:16-19 in a literal, futurist way contradicts other scripture? Do you even care about that?

Are you somehow not aware that Jesus made animal sacrifices OBSOLETE forever by way of His "once for all" sacrifice? Have you never read Hebrews 8-10?

Also, are you somehow not aware that God changed things long ago to make it so that people did not have to go to Jerusalem to worship Him anymore and He instead required people to worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:19-24)? And you think He's going to revert back to the old way again in the future? that's the opposite of progression, that's regression. It's INSANE to think that God would ever want to revert things back to the old covenant ways after replacing the old covenant with the new covenant by way of the shed blood of His Son. Why do you not even think of these things? I'll tell you why. Because you are IGNORANT of much New Testament scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 that Christ MUST reign over all His enemies, their being made His footstool.

That does not support Premill. He reigns now and will continue to reign until the last enemy, death, is defeated at the last trumpet when Jesus returns at which point death will be swallowed up in victory (1 Cor 15:50-54).

The Revelation 3:9 verse I already mentioned, when the FALSE Jews of the "synagogue of Satan" will be made to come worship Christ at the feet of His elect in Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

I already addressed this. That relates only to the judgment and not the thousand years.

The Psalms 2 Scripture about Christ's future reign over the nations with the "rod of iron".

The Revelation 2:25-27 Scripture where Jesus says those who overcome in Him remaining faithful to the end will reign with Him over the nations with that "rod of iron" of Psalms 2.

Do you just ignore that Psalm 2:7-9 talks about Jesus BREAKING (DESTROYING) the heathen with that rod of iron like a vase being shattered into pieces? Do you just ignore Revelation 19:15 which correlates Him ruling with a rod of iron with smiting (destroying) the nations (heathen) and treading them i nthe fierceness and warath of Almighty God? Why do you never consider the CONTEXT?

Isaiah 60 points to Arab Islamic nations that will come worship Jesus Christ in His future Kingdom after His future return, and that is linked to the Zechariah 14:16-19 Scripture about Egypt, etc.

We already know that you misinterpret Zechariah 14:16-19, so it's safe to assume you also misinterpret any passage you relate to that one.

And then of course the Revelation 20 Chapter which reveals Christ's future "thousand years" LITERAL REIGN over the unsaved nations AFTER His future return.

And, of course, you interpret that passage in such a way that contradicts many other passages. But, far be it from you to be careful not to do that.

And per the Revelation 20:7-9 Scripture, we learn that when Satan is loosed one final time after Christ's future "thousand years" reign, that Satan will lead the 'deceived' and wicked one final time against that "camp of the saints" on earth at the "beloved city" on earth, which means Christ's Church in the holy land of the future.

LOL. Why do you ignore what is written in Hebrews 11:8-16 which says that we should be looking for a heavenly city and country rather than an earthly one? Why do you ignore 2 Peter 3:13 where Peter says we look for new heavens and a new earth where righteousness dwells in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming? Why do you instead look only for an earthly city? Your way of thinking is so LIMITED and CARNAL.

That proves... beyond all doubt, that Christ's future REIGN over the nations with the "rod of iron" INCLUDES unsaved nations that will still rebel during that future Millennium.

The only thing you proved in this post is that you lack discernment about these things and that you interpret those passages in such a way that contradicts other passages and you're not even careful at all about avoiding that. You just cherry pick certain passages that you make say what you want them to say while ignoring many other passages that your interpretations contradict.

 

[Davy]

LOL!!! Not even close, bud. Leave the Amil vs. Premil debate to people who actually know what they're talking about and stick to defending post-trib instead. You're not half bad at doing that.

Notice that Spiritual Israelite provided NO SCRIPTURE PROOF to support his vanity against those Scriptures that I quoted. Anyone with common sense can go read those Bible Scriptures I quoted and understand them exactly... how I have understood them, because like Apostle Peter said, God's Word is of NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION (2 Peter 1:20-21).

 

[marks]

You are changing the text. There are two groups mentioned there, figuratively represented as sheep and goats.

No, there are three. The chosen who are gathered before Jesus takes His throne, and the nations composed of sheep and goats. 3.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Notice that Spiritual Israelite provided NO SCRIPTURE PROOF to support his vanity against those Scriptures that I quoted.

LOL. I post SCRIPTURE PROOF all the time to support what I believe. Are you kidding me? You posted one scripture, which was Revelation 3:9 and I gave my understanding of that verse. What other scriptures are you referring to? Give me a post number and I will give my understanding of whatever scriptures you're talking about if I haven't already (I probably have).

Anyone with common sense can go read those Bible Scriptures I quoted and understand them exactly... how I have understood them, because like Apostle Peter said, God's Word is of NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION (2 Peter 1:20-21).

This illustrates your problem. You think that human common sense (human wisdom) is all anyone needs to understand scripture. That blatantly contradicts what Paul said.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Instead of relying on the Holy Spirit and "the mind of Christ" for understanding you rely completely on "common sense" or human wisdom like the natural man and that is why the truth of these things is foolishness to you. Instead of spiritually discerning them like you should be, you use your own flawed "common sense" and human wisdom instead.

Also, nice job of misapplying 2 Peter 2:20-21. That passage is saying that the prophets interpretation of God's prophecies was not their own but came from God Himself. That passage has nothing to do with our interpretations of what the prophets wrote. But, even if it did, my interpretation is not one I have all to myself. Many people agree with me about this. So, either way, you misapplied that passage just like you do many other passages.

 

[marks]

You are deciding that if one passage about an event does not contain all the same details as another passage about an event then they can't both be talking about the same event, but that is not a wise way of interpreting scripture.

No. That's not correct. Not that one has details the other does not. One has details that conflict with the other, that is, if you are reading them as the same event.

I'll tell you what's not wise. What's not wise is to read the Bible and tell yourself it means something different from what the words say.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, there are three. The chosen who are gathered before Jesus takes His throne, and the nations composed of sheep and goats.

No, the sheep are the chosen. What is the difference between the chosen and the sheep in your mind? Please be as specific as possible.

Also, do you agree that everything described in Matthew 25:31-46 happens right after Christ's second coming with His angels? If so, please tell me the difference between what is described in Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:15.

Also, please answer one other question. Do you believe that the sheep have mortal or immortal bodies?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. That's not correct. Not that one has details the other does. One has details that conflict with the other, that is, if you are reading them as the same event.

And, what supposed conflicting details are those exactly? Why do you always make claims about something and not offer any explanation for how you came to your conclusions?

I'll tell you what's not wise. What's not wise is to read the Bible and tell yourself it means something different from what the words say.

I agree. I'm glad I'm not doing that. You certainly are not proving otherwise.

 

[marks]

How can this:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Be any different than this:

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Because something in one prophecy makes you think of something in another prophecy, they must be the same? There's more to it than that. Pay attention to all the details, and accept what is written in the customary meaning of the words when they were spoken.

 

[marks]

And, what supposed conflicting details are those exactly?

Well, right off the top . . . one occurs on the earth, the other after the earth is gone.

See the thing is, you won't agree with me on the basics, I'm supposed to spend my time writing up this long treatise for you to reject out of hand? No thank you.

And all your personal comments get boring.

So I answer what I feel like, in the manner I feel like, and I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, the sheep are the chosen. What is the difference between the chosen and the sheep in your mind? Please be as specific as possible.

Read the passage. When are the chosen gathered? When are the nations gathered? Do you consider these gatherings to be one and the same?

One occurs before Jesus takes his throne, one after, and I'm tired of repeating myself again and again.

Enough.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because something in one prophecy makes you think of something in another prophecy, they must be the same?

Not necessarily, but in this case doesn't Revelation 20:15 indicate that all whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the fire at the same time? I believe so. So, with that in mind, how can Matthew 25:41 be talking about people whose names are not written in the book of life being cast into the fire at some other time?

There's more to it than that. Pay attention to all the details, and accept what is written in the customary meaning of the words when they were spoken.

So, why don't you show me what the difference is between Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:15 then? I'm not sure why you say things like you do here without bothering to show me what you think the verses mean. Am I the only one who should share his interpretations? Why can't you?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, right off the top . . . one occurs on the earth, the other after the earth is gone.

Where is your evidence to support this claim?

See the thing is, you won't agree with me on the basics, I'm supposed to spend my time writing up this long treatise for you to reject out of hand? No thank you.

Why does it have to be long? The truth isn't that complicated.

So I answer what I feel like, in the manner I feel like, and I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

So, you just like to share vague opinions without doing anything to back them up, which seems rather meaningless and serves no purpose whatsoever.

 

[dremnant]

I see no basis for the distinctions you are making here. All who are mentioned in verses 12 and 13 are judged within the jurisdiction of the books based on their works.

Take another look...before "the sea gave up the dead" and before "death and hell delivered up the dead" in verse 13...there were dead people in verse 12 already standing before God and were judged based on "the books".

But all the dead in verse 13 were not judged based on the books, and are only judged according to their works. Probably the explanation to this is the text in Romans 2:12.

Only in verse 15 were those two groups judged based on what is written in the book of life.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Take another look...before "the sea gave up the dead" and before "death and hell delivered up the dead" in verse 13...there were dead people in verse 12 already standing before God and were judged based on "the books".

No, verse 13 explains where the dead in verse 12 came from. I believe you're making this more complicated than it is.

But all the dead in verse 13 were not judged based on the books, and are only judged according to their works.

Being judged according to their works requires being based on the works described in the books. So, I disagree.

Probably the explanation to this is the text in Romans 2:12.

Only in verse 15 were those two groups judged based on what is written in the book of life.

That verse is referring to the law of Moses and Revelation 20:11-15 has nothing to do with being judged by the law of Moses.

 

[dremnant]

I have to LAUGH at your LIMITED COVERAGE of that TOPIC!

You obviously thought to push a certain agenda of men with that, because you completely bypassed the future events written of about the unsaved and wicked still existing AFTER Christ's future return and separation of His sheep from the goats.

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

I don't know which "agenda of men" you are talking about. In fact, I have yet to find another person who sees the prophetic texts with the same understanding that is given to me.

The only timeline where the members of the Synagogue of Satan can have no other choice but to worship the Christians (without the Christians committing blasphemy) would be on the Judgment Day (Revelation 20:11-15). This is because that is the time when the haters of Christ shall bow and worship Him...

Romans 14:10-12 (KJV)
[10] But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. [11] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. [12] So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

That is unless you count the instances of Roman Catholics worshipping the images of the saints as valid fulfillment of the Rev 3:9 prophecy.

 

[dremnant]

No, verse 13 explains where the dead in verse 12 came from. I believe you're making this more complicated than it is.

That interpretation would only be valid if verse 13 did not start with the word "And".

 

[Davidpt]

I don't know which "agenda of men" you are talking about. In fact, I have yet to find another person who sees the prophetic texts with the same understanding that is given to me.

The only timeline where the members of the Synagogue of Satan can have no other choice but to worship the Christians (without the Christians committing blasphemy) would be on the Judgment Day (Revelation 20:11-15). This is because that is the time when the haters of Christ shall bow and worship Him...

Romans 14:10-12 (KJV)
[10] But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. [11] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. [12] So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

That is unless you count the instances of Roman Catholics worshipping the images of the saints as valid fulfillment of the Rev 3:9 prophecy.

Your interpretation of this makes no sense. Because of your doctrinal bias you have to deny that a time period post that of the 2nd coming is required in order to fulfill this.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

This is what we are focusing on here---I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Now compare that with the following in Isaiah 60.

Isaiah 60:14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.


How can verse 14 not be what Jesus was meaning in Revelation 3:9? Isaiah 60:14 says---and all they that despised thee. How can that not also be true of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, that they despised the 'thee' meant in Isaiah 60:14 the fact Jesus said, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee? The 'thee' obviously meaning the same 'thee' meant in Isaiah 60:14.

Where do you see anywhere in Isaiah 60 that it gives the impression that the judgment seat of Christ is in view, that it is involving what Romans 14:10-12 is involving?

We also have to keep in mind, in Revelation 3:9 Jesus is the speaker, therefore, the 'thy' and the 'thee' meant, obviously can't be meaning Him. Per Romans 14:10-12 though, they are bowing to Christ Himself. Per Revelation 3:9 no one is bowing to Christ since Christ is going to make these bow to someone or something else. But let's just ignore details like this and have it meaning Romans 14:10-12, regardless. Where it then renders Revelation 3:9 nonsensical since Jesus is the speaker, therefore, He would not be using pronouns such as 'thy' and 'thee' if He was referring to Himself.

I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Imagine this meaning this instead---I will make them to come and worship before my feet, and to know that I have loved me--utterly rendering this part nonsensical---and to know that I have loved me---what is that supposed to mean, that Jesus says of Himself, to know that I have loved me? LOL what absurd things doctrinal bias' can cause one to do to the texts involved, as if it is a better idea to render the text nonsensical rather than trying to make sense out of the text instead. But since most ppl are too prideful to ever admit their interpretation has been debunked, when it has clearly been debunked, I might as well be talking to a wall then.