When does the judgment happen?

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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Hobie,
And when does this happen my brother, read Gods Word...
According to God's Word the New Heaven and Earth of Isaiah 65:17-25 starts at the beginning of the 1000 years describing the Kingdom of God upon the earth, and there will be mortals and death during this 1000 years.

The New Heaven and Earth of Revelation 21 is the new period after the 1000 years when death is abolished. Refer also to 1 Corinthians 15.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

GracePeace

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There comes a close of probation as Christ declares..

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And then the application of the judgement, the punishment which is final..
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
It seems you would agree with the notion that judgment/justification is not something that happens just once (I ask bc the topic seemingly probes this question)?
 

Hobie

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Greetings again Hobie,

According to God's Word the New Heaven and Earth of Isaiah 65:17-25 starts at the beginning of the 1000 years describing the Kingdom of God upon the earth, and there will be mortals and death during this 1000 years.

The New Heaven and Earth of Revelation 21 is the new period after the 1000 years when death is abolished. Refer also to 1 Corinthians 15.

Kind regards
Trevor
The thousand-year millennium begins at the Second Coming of Christ, when the righteous dead will be resurrected and join the living saints and be taken to heaven. The wicked will then be slain, notice they are not destroyed with fire at this time.
Isaiah 11:4
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

During the thousand-year millennium, their is no one living on earth and it will be in a state of desolation, and Satan will therefore be "bound" by no one to deceive or tempt for one thousand years.
Jeremiah 4:23-26
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

Revelation 20:2-3
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

While the saints will be reigning with Christ in heaven, for one thousand years, they will go over the books and judge the wicked.
1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

At the end of the thousand-year millennium, Christ returns to the earth with the redeemed in the New Jerusalem and His angels. The wicked dead will be resurrected as Christ declared
John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. So we find two resurrections at the end of time:

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
and supported by many verses..

And the first resurrection is of the saints not the wicked as the verses make clear. The wicked are going to suffer the second death which is damnation in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Thus it is plain that there are two resurrections, one at the beginning of the 1000 years of the Millennium, in which true believers in Christ are raised to eternal life; and one at the opposite end of the Millennium or the end of the 1000 years of the Millennium, in which the 'unjust' awake to something else entirely.

The New Jerusalem descends from heaven, and Christ, with the redeemed and the angels. Satan being loosed from his prison, deceives his followers to take possession of the city. Then fire comes down from God upon His enemies and consumes them leaving neither root nor branch.
 

Hobie

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Here is the best explanation I can find...

The millennium is one of the most important Christian beliefs about the end of the world. Revelation 20 talks about a period of 1,000 years that Christians generally refer to as “the millennium.”​

Beginning of the Millennium​

Revelation 19:11-21 describes Christ riding out of heaven on a white horse, and He is followed by the armies of heaven, who are also riding white horses (verses 11, 14). Their purpose is to make war with the kings of the earth and their armies (verses 11, 19). Chapter 19 concludes with the enemies of Christ being defeated (verses 20, 21). This symbolic description of the second coming of Christ is immediately followed by the millennium in chapter 20. From this it’s evident that Christ’s second coming will occur at the beginning of the millennium.

Resurrection of the Righteous​

Paul said that “the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first” (1 Thessalonians 4:16; see also 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). Thus, one of the events to occur at the beginning of the millennium will be the resurrection of the righteous.

Paul then added that “we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them [the resurrected saints] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever (1 Thessalonians 4:17). This suggests that God’s people will be taken to heaven at Christ’s second coming, and a statement that Jesus made while He was still on the earth confirms this conclusion. He promised His disciples that “I am going there [heaven] to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back [His second coming] and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am” (John 14:2, 3). Jesus is now in heaven (Acts 2:32, 33; Hebrews 9:25), and He promised that at His second coming He would take His people to be with Him, where He is.

Destruction of the Wicked​

In 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Paul said that at Christ’s second coming the wicked “will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord.” And in the symbolic description of Christ going to war against the kings of the earth and their armies, Revelation 19:18 says that the birds of the air will “eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, . . . and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.” From this it’s evident that the wicked will all be slain at Christ’s second coming.

Satan will also be bound during the millennium. Revelation 20:2, 3 says that an angel from heaven “seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.”

The word “abyss” (sometimes translated “bottomless pit”) is from the Greek “abussos.” In the Greek version of Genesis 1:2, the word abussos, translated “the deep,” is used to describe the pre-Creation condition of the earth—”formless and empty.” Revelation simply means that during the millennium Satan will be confined to this desolate earth with no one to tempt.

Revelation says that at Christ’s second coming the entire world will be shaken by an earthquake that is so powerful that it will cause the mountains to flatten out and the islands in the sea to disappear (Revelation 6:12— 14; 16:18-20). An earthquake that powerful would collapse all of the skyscrapers in the world’s large cities, and it would buckle and destroy all of the world’s highways and rail lines. In other words, the earth will be a wreck—”formless and empty.”

Some Christians claim that Christ will reign on the earth during the millennium and that the righteous and the wicked will live side-by-side during that time. Adventists disagree with this view for two reasons. First, there isn’t the slightest evidence in the New Testament that the righteous and the wicked will live together after Christ’s second coming. To the contrary, in His parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus said that at His second coming the righteous and the wicked will be separated from each other “as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats” (Matthew 25:32; see also Matthew 13:40-43).

During the Millennium​

From what we’ve already learned, we can draw several conclusions about what will happen during the millennium. Satan will be confined to this earth, where he can spend the time contemplating the terrible mess he’s made of things. The bodies of the wicked will be strewn all over the earth.

The righteous, on the other hand, will be in heaven, and Revelation 20 says that they will be “given authority to judge. . . . They will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years” (verses 4, 6).

Other verses in the New Testament give us some idea of the nature of this judgment. Paul said that “the saints will judge the world” and “we will judge angels” (1 Corinthians 6:2, 3). Also, Jesus said that “when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Matthew 19:28). In this verse, Jesus combined both the idea of reigning with Him and judging that John spoke about in Revelation 20:4.

After the Millennium​

At the end of the millennium, all of the wicked will be resurrected. Revelation 20:5 says, “The rest of the dead [the wicked] did not come to life [were not resurrected] until the thousand years were ended. Verse 7 says that “when the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison.” What does this mean? Verse 3 said that Satan was locked in the abyss “to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.” The reason why Satan cannot tempt anyone during the millennium is that, with the righteous in heaven and the wicked dead, there will be no one to tempt. At the close of the millennium, when the wicked are resurrected, there will once again be people to join him in his rebellion against God. This is what we understand Satan’s release from prison to mean.

In Revelation 21:2, John says that he saw “the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.” In Revelation 20:9, John says that he saw the wicked surrounding “the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.” This city is the New Jerusalem, so the descent of the New Jerusalem to earth will occur simultaneously as the wicked are resurrected and Satan is released from his prison.

In Revelation 20:8, Satan gathers the wicked for battle, and they try to attack the New Jerusalem. At this point, Satan still has not abandoned the purpose he has pursued throughout the millennia of earth’s history; his purpose is to defeat God and make his rulership of the world permanent.

However, God will interrupt Satan’s strategy. John says, “I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it…. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and the books were opened. … The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books” (Revelation 20:11, 12). This scene also reveals the reason why the wicked are raised to life after the millennium—so they can be judged for their evil deeds and condemned once and for all.

Following the judgment of the wicked, they will be destroyed in a lake of fire. However, Peter also describes this lake of fire, and he says that the earth itself will be burned up (2 Peter 3:10-12). Thus, hell is not off in some distant part of the universe, it is not in the center of the earth and it is not happening now. Hell will be the destruction of the entire planet by fire at the end of the millennium.

The lake of fire in Revelation 20:14, 15 is followed immediately by the re-creation of our planet into “a new heaven and a new earth” (Revelation 21:1). Peter used the very same language when, after describing the destruction of the world by fire, he said that there will be “a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness” (2 Peter 3:13). Some people argue that the wicked will burn in hell throughout eternity. However, since hell and the lake of fire that destroys the earth are one and the same, hell cannot last forever if the world is to be re-created as the home of the righteous.

The good news about the millennium is that at its conclusion evil will be completely cleansed from the earth and from the universe. All wars, natural disasters, pain and weeping will be a thing of the past (Revelation 21:4), and God’s people will enjoy fellowship with God, Jesus and the angels throughout all eternity.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again Hobie,
The thousand-year millennium begins at the Second Coming of Christ, when the righteous dead will be resurrected and join the living saints and be taken to heaven.
Your exposition ignores Isaiah 2:1-4, 65:17-25, Ezekiel 38-39, Daniel 2:35,44, Micah 4:1-8, Zechariah 14, Malachi 4 and Acts 3:19-21.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

GracePeace

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Greetings again Hobie,

Your exposition ignores Isaiah 2:1-4, 65:17-25, Ezekiel 38-39, Daniel 2:35,44, Micah 4:1-8, Zechariah 14, Malachi 4 and Acts 3:19-21.

Kind regards
Trevor
Eschatology is hard, maybe we all "understand in part" "as through a mirror dimly"?
 

Hobie

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Greetings again Hobie,

Your exposition ignores Isaiah 2:1-4, 65:17-25, Ezekiel 38-39, Daniel 2:35,44, Micah 4:1-8, Zechariah 14, Malachi 4 and Acts 3:19-21.

Kind regards
Trevor
The core Christian belief has always been the saints go to heaven, only recently have some of these other ideas been pushed on the people as the devil strives to prepare for his appearing as Christ warned of the 'false messiah'. here on earth.
 

Hey You!

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Judgment Days ~ by ReverendRV * June 15

Romans 2:5 ESV; But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

Theology sometimes presents us with a System to explain difficulties in the Bible. I often say that if you cannot find an answer for a possible mistake in the Bible, and no one is able to give you the answer; it doesn’t mean there’s nobody out there who can give an answer. There is a Principle in Theology known as ‘Dual Fulfilment’. Isaiah 7:14 is a dual fulfillment; a Promised son was born in the Old Testament; and in the New Testament. Jesus read from the Book of Isaiah; but stopped at a certain point, saying that in this day the reading was fulfilled in their hearing. The Reason Jesus stopped was because the next Verse he could have read, will be fulfilled on Judgment Day. ~ Another Verse also has a Double fulfillment; ‘The Sun will darken and the Moon turn blood red, before the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord comes’. In Ellicott’s Commentary, He says the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord is the Day Jesus Christ died. Saint Peter teaches us it was Christ’s Judgment Day. Saint Paul teaches this Judgment Day is coming again…

Why is there a Judgment Day? It is due to the Sin of the World. ~ What do you call people who Lie? Have you ever Lied? Then you belong in their Category. Do you not believe in God? Now you broke the First Commandment to believe in God. Have you ever thought of God as anything other than what the Bible says he is? Then you broke the Second Commandment not to make a god to suit yourself. Have you ever Hated someone? Jesus said this means you’ve Murdered them in your Heart. He also said, ‘Unbelievers, Murderers, Idolaters, and all Liars deserve to go to Hell’. Will you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or Hell? ~ What you need is an Alternative Judgment Day where God’s Wrath can be revealed…

For God so Loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ was born of a Virgin, that he could be Sinless. He lived a life of maintaining his Sinlessness, and this is why God his Father was well pleased with him. He earned his way to Heaven by being Good, but volunteered to pay the Penalty for the Sins of every new Believer; by being a Substitute for them, on a Substitute Day of Judgment and Wrath. Jesus Christ died on the Cross by bleeding to death, was buried; but arose from the Grave Alive! He was seen by five Hundred people before he Ascended to Heaven. We’re Saved by the Grace of God through Faith in the Risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, without Works lest we boast. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your lord God; and learn from him at a Gospel Church. ~ Are you not convinced that the Day of Christ’s Crucifixion is the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord’s Judgment? How could that Day be Great at all?? As Christians we celebrate the day every year; after all, why in the world do we call that Terrible day, ‘Good Friday’?

Isaiah 53:5 ESV; But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.
 

LuxMundi

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So when does this judgment happen?

We read in Scripture that the spirit (soul) returns to God upon the physical death of the body (Ecc. 12:7), and it's then that it appears before Jesus in the individual judgment. But it is only a partial resurrection. Rather than a resurrection, it could be called the liberation of the spirit from the sheath of the flesh and the spirit's waiting to rejoin the flesh so as to reconstitute the living temple, created by the Father, the temple of man created in the image and likeness of God. (Gen. 1:26;2:7)

A work in which one part is missing is incomplete and thus imperfect. Man as a work, perfect in his creation, is incomplete and imperfect if not joined together again in his different parts. Destined to the Kingdom of light or the dwelling of darkness, men must eternally be in one or the other with their perfection as flesh and spirit. The first and second resurrection are thus spoken of. But observe.

The one who has [spiritually] killed his spirit with an earthly life of sin comes to Jesus, in the particular judgment, with a spirit that is already dead. The final resurrection will cause his flesh to take on again the weight of the spirit so as to die [spiritually] with it completely. Whereas the one who has overcome the flesh in earthly life comes to Jesus, in the particular judgment, with an alive spirit that, on entering Paradise, increases his mode of living.

Those being purged (the souls in Purgatory [a place which precedes Heaven]) are also "alive". Sick [spiritually], but alive. When healing is obtained in expiation, they will enter the place which is Life. In the final resurrection their spirits, alive with Jesus's Life, to which they will be indissolubly united, will take on the flesh again to make it glorious and live with it totally, just as He lives with it. (Ezek. 18:4;5;17, Matt. 25: 31:46, I Cor. 15:35-58)

That's why the first and second death are spoken of and, consequently, the first and second resurrection.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again Hobie,
The core Christian belief has always been the saints go to heaven, only recently have some of these other ideas been pushed on the people as the devil strives to prepare for his appearing as Christ warned of the 'false messiah'. here on earth.
It is true that the SDAs follow a number of the corrupt "Christian Churches", but even here the SDAs have a modified version of heaven going. Most Churches believe in immortal souls, and that their immortal souls go to heaven when they die. You should not claim to be united with the "Christian" Churches and their teaching. I am not sure what documentation that you can produce which is distinct from those who taught the immortality of the soul.

You have ignored the verses that I quoted and what they clearly teach that the 1000 years Kingdom will be upon the earth. Edward Gibbon in his book The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire states the following regarding the transition from the concept of the Land Promised to Abraham and the Throne Promise to David and I assume that this was mainly because of the introduction of the erroneous doctrine of immortal souls.

Gibbon states: “The ancient and popular doctrine of the Millennium was intimately connected with the second coming of Christ. As the works of creation had been finished in six days, their duration, in their present state, according to a tradition which was attributed to the prophet Elijah, was fixed to six thousand years. By the same analogy it was inferred that this long period of labor and contention, which was now almost elapsed (as they supposed), would be succeeded by a joyful Sabbath of a thousand years; and that Christ, with the triumphant band of the Saints and the elect who had escaped death, or who had been miraculously revived, would reign upon earth till the time appointed for the last and general resurrection. So pleasing was this hope to the minds of believers, that the New Jerusalem, the seat of this blissful kingdom, was quickly adorned with all the gayest colors of the imagination. A felicity consisting only of pure and spiritual pleasure would have appeared too refined for its inhabitants, who were still supposed to possess their human nature and senses. A garden of Eden with the amusements of pastoral life, was no longer suited to the advanced state of society which prevailed under the Roman Empire. A city was therefore erected, of gold and precious stones, and a supernatural plenty of corn and wine was bestowed on the adjacent territory; in the free enjoyment of whose spontaneous productions, the happy and benevolent people was never to be restrained by any jealous laws of exclusive property. The assurance of such a millennium was carefully inculcated by a succession of fathers, from Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, who conversed with the immediate disciples of the apostles, down to Lactantius, who was preceptor to the son of Constantine. Though it might not be universally received, it appears to have been the reigning sentiment of the orthodox believers; and it seems so well adapted to the desires and apprehensions of mankind, that it must have contributed in a very considerable degree to the progress of the Christian faith. But when the edifice of the church was almost completed, the temporary support was laid aside. The doctrine of Christ’s reign upon earth was at first treated as a profound allegory, was considered by degrees as a doubtful and useless opinion, and was at length rejected as the absurd invention of heresy and fanaticism. A mysterious prophecy (the Apocalypse) which still forms a part of the sacred canon, but which was thought to favor the exploded sentiment, has very narrowly escaped the proscription of THE CHURCH.”

Kind regards
Trevor