Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe that WPM's interpretation is flawed because it diverges from the true intentions of the author. My reasoning lies in the fact that WPM struggles to grasp the nuances and context that the author intended to convey. This misalignment suggests a fundamental disconnect between the author's message and the way it was interpreted, which I will further elaborate on.

Malachi addresses his community about their diminishing spiritual fervor and the consequences that this may have for their future as a people. He emphasizes the importance of personal and communal faithfulness, urging them to recognize the spiritual void that has developed among them. It is essential to note that his observations and warnings are specific to his own people and their relationship with God, and it would be a misinterpretation to extend his remarks to suggest a universal spiritual crisis affecting the entire world. Malachi's message serves as a poignant reminder for his audience to reflect on their spiritual state and to reclaim their devotion and connection to their faith.

So, it seems that you probably have a serious problem with Paul then when he relates Old Testament scriptures that seem, on the surface, to refer only to Abraham and his physical descendants and then applies them globally and spiritually to Jesus and His church instead, such as in Galatians 3:16 and Galatians 3:29 where he says that God's promises to Abraham and his seed were made to Christ and those who belong to Christ?

Your understanding is flawed because you do not accept how the NT authors interpreted OT scripture. There was sometimes a broader meaning to those scriptures which is not obvious without consulting the NT. Who would know that Gentile believers are fellow heirs with Jewish believers of God's promises if Paul didn't reveal that mystery in Ephesians 3:1-6? You need to start allowing the NT to help you interpret the OT. Until you do, you will continue to misinterpret Malachi 4:1 and other OT passages.

So, in your view, you are willing to excuse WPM when he quotes a verse out of context without proof? Typical.

He didn't do that, so there's nothing to excuse. Why would you think I would agree with you about that? Typical ignorance on your part.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amils spiritualize verses that don't fit their doctrine, and they don't think the OT profits know what they were saying.

Premils literalize verses that don't fit their doctrine, such as Revelation 20. And your second claim you made there is an outright lie. Instead of the lie you told there, we believe that the NT authors, who clearly didn't teach Premill, knew what they were saying when they gave their understanding of the OT prophets. You try to interpret the OT using your own fallible human wisdom instead of allowing the NT authors to help you interpret it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe that the scriptures indicate that sacrifices will be performed again, but not for the reasons one might imagine.

So, how about you tell us what those reasons are and what scriptures you use to support your opinion about that.

 

[KUWN]

Until you do, you will continue to misinterpret Malachi 4:1 and other OT passages.

How can a believer "misinterpretation" a scripture if the Holy Spirit is teaching him?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can a believer "misinterpretation" a scripture if the Holy Spirit is teaching him?

What are you talking about? The person I was talking to denies the deity of Christ. But, you think he is taught by the Holy Spirit? You need to stop being so naive.

 

[WPM]

No.. I admitted they would literally take place.. They will

No. this happens at the end, after the 1000 years are done, after satan is loosed. after the final rebellion. after jesus puts down that rbellion.

21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

which Peter mentioned in 2 Peter 3.

2 peter 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Now are you going to give me examples that show the OT prophecies I showed literally came true?

These passages do not say that. They show the NHNE comes at the3 second coming, not 1000 years after.

 

[WPM]

How can a believer "misinterpretation" a scripture if the Holy Spirit is teaching him?

That is because the Holy Spirit is not teaching you in regard to this.

 

[WPM]

I believe that the scriptures indicate that sacrifices will be performed again, but not for the reasons one might imagine.

For what purpose?

 

[WPM]

Amils spiritualize verses that don't fit their doctrine, and they don't think the OT profits know what they were saying.

Premils are fixated with twisting the Old Testament and the book of Revelation. They totally explain away and negate the clear consistent teaching of Christ and the New Testament writers. They pitch their tent in the obscure, and use that to twist the truth.

Let the New Testament interpret the Old! The bottom line is, the New Testament shines light and detail on the Old Testament prophecies. It gives greater clarity and perspective. It is the fuller revelation. You would have to be blind not to see that. The New Testament frequently quotes Old Testament prophecies and explains them, expands upon them and locates them. It is not the other way around. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look at the Old Testament, but we should use the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament whenever possible.

 

[Scott Downey]

The scriptures they had in Jesus's day spoke of Him. And Jesus now has the preeminence with all authority and power given to Him by the Father. So, the old is gone and the new is here. Never let the Old Covenant interpret the New Covenant. The New Covenant is how we understand the Old Covenant.

One interesting example is this about the Rock that followed the wilderness wanderers being Christ, meaning clearly Christ Son of the Father is also God. Christ gives to us that living water that he who drinks of Him, in this New Covenant, will not die. Yes our New Covenant in Christ's blood is the superior and perfect covenant between God and men.

Old Testament Examples​

1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink.

For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us [a]tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now [b]all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our [c]admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

 

[Scott Downey]

John 6

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

Many Disciples Turn Away​

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more.

 

[KUWN]

That is because the Holy Spirit is not teaching you in regard to this.

Should I take your human wisdom and change my life? I mean, you possess human wisdom but how do I know what
you say is truth?

 

[KUWN]

What are you talking about? The person I was talking to denies the deity of Christ. But, you think he is taught by the Holy Spirit? You need to stop being so naive

Where does it say that you have to believe in the deity of Christ to have the Holy Spirit teach you? Do you have to have your theology right before you accept Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

These passages do not say that. They show the NHNE comes at the3 second coming, not 1000 years after.

Well thanks for your opinion. But the word must agree.

And God tells us when it happens and it happens after the tribulation, after all time of Gods wrath, after the 1000 years, and after satan is released and the last human resistance is put down

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For what purpose?

for what purpose were they done before Christ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Premils are fixated with twisting the Old Testament and the book of Revelation. They totally explain away and negate the clear consistent teaching of Christ and the New Testament writers. They pitch their tent in the obscure, and use that to twist the truth.

Let the New Testament interpret the Old! The bottom line is, the New Testament shines light and detail on the Old Testament prophecies. It gives greater clarity and perspective. It is the fuller revelation. You would have to be blind not to see that. The New Testament frequently quotes Old Testament prophecies and explains them, expands upon them and locates them. It is not the other way around. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look at the Old Testament, but we should use the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament whenever possible.

We are fixated on the literal interpretation of prophecy..

Now alot of prophecy just happens to be letters from Daniel and John (revelation) which are a continuation of the message Daniel started in chapter 2. they flow together in harmony so yes. we do take these two books alot. because they have relevance.

we do not just ignore them or try to spiritualize them so we can force the word to fit our belief

 

[CadyandZoe]

Premils literalize verses that don't fit their doctrine, such as Revelation 20. And your second claim you made there is an outright lie. Instead of the lie you told there, we believe that the NT authors, who clearly didn't teach Premill, knew what they were saying when they gave their understanding of the OT prophets. You try to interpret the OT using your own fallible human wisdom instead of allowing the NT authors to help you interpret it.

What if your interpretation of the NT is incorrect?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The scriptures they had in Jesus's day spoke of Him. And Jesus now has the preeminence with all authority and power given to Him by the Father. So, the old is gone and the new is here. Never let the Old Covenant interpret the New Covenant. The New Covenant is how we understand the Old Covenant.

One interesting example is this about the Rock that followed the wilderness wanderers being Christ, meaning clearly Christ Son of the Father is also God. Christ gives to us that living water that he who drinks of Him, in this New Covenant, will not die. Yes our New Covenant in Christ's blood is the superior and perfect covenant between God and men.

Old Testament Examples​

1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink.

For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us [a]tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now [b]all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our [c]admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Lets use Jesus own word

Luke:
16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are [j]oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

Now can you tell us when everythign else happened?

Is 61: “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

This is what Jesus quoted and said it is literally fulfilled.

when will the rest of this happen?


And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”
4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,
They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore in their land they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.

if part literally came true. should not the whole come true?

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, how about you tell us what those reasons are and what scriptures you use to support your opinion about that.

Why did Jesus teach his disciples to pray "make your name holy"?

 

[CadyandZoe]

For what purpose?

Why did Jesus teach his disciples to pray, "Make your name holy?"