The Doctrines of Grace

[Titus]

Hi Titus
I make no claim to be knowledgeable re Revelation. There are just a few verses I'd use in that book for support of any doctrine.

Just want to say that I agree with you....I don't see anything about praying to the souls in heaven.

My main question would be: HOW could they hear? Only God is omnipresent.

If Bread were really honest, he'd take the time to explain Rev. 5:8 to clarify his position.

No matter. I kind of hope those up in heaven DO NOT see us or can hear what is going on down here.
Heaven is supposed to be a happy place, and if they knew what we go through, I don't think they'd be too happy about it.

Thanks.
You are very kind to me.
I love you.

My Dad has diabetes he's 85.
We eat a high carbohydrate diet. Lots of beans, rice, potatoes, pasta, bread, fruit.

No refined sugar, just whole foods.
Only drink water.

I'm wondering if there is anything that Italians do to keep blood sugar down after meals.
I know Mediterranean countries like Spain and Italy eat lots of carbohydrates.
Do you have any diabetics in your family or maybe friends?

My Dad is not on any drugs for his diabetes.
He takes cinnamon and apple cider vinegar with meals.

I just bought a $1300 rowing machine so he can exercise.
Exercise really helps keep blood sugar down.

Any foods or native herbs that Italians use for diabetes?

 

[Titus]

Ohhhh.
I'm soooo bitter!
Wanna have a cappuccio with me?


View attachment 57923

BreadofLife is the meanest person I've come across on religious forums.
He cant seem to keep himself from insulting others.

 

[amigo de christo]

And this is why He passed the mantle of Authority to His CHURCH (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23, 1 Tim. 3:15, Eph. 1:22-23) – which He promised would never succumb to the gates of Hell (Matt. 16:18).

YOUR problem is that you reject Jesus by rejecting His Church . . .

I reject neither Christ or HIS church . I do , however , reject a den of harlots .
HIS CHURCH dont preach interfaith bud . However it seems many a church do that .
HIS church dont tell other religoins the anti christ lie of interfaith .
Peter would never have done what the mother of harlots and her daughters do .
Paul nor any other true sheep would even dare dream of doing such a thing.
Its NOT HIS church i reject . But you go and learn what that means . Please hurry too .

 

[amigo de christo]

BreadofLife is the meanest person I've come across on religious forums.
He cant seem to keep himself from insulting others.

friend he is not the meanest . though he is far from the most honest or friendly person too .
You want to see cruel
walk into these inclusive WHORE following churches
bring a bible and read said bible . I have seen grown men shoved , punched at , swung and kicked at
by the very ones who holler TEN TRILLION times a day , WHEN DEFENDING SIN , GOD is love , be tolerant
be inclusive . DONT SEEM very tolerant , loving , Towards men with bibles .
And the so called love rainbow , you aint seen squat to as how these will treat one .
Not so friendly if you dont bow and kneel before their rainbow . The churches have PROBLEMS and BIG TIME TOO .

 

[Titus]

friend he is not the meanest . though he is far from the most honest or friendly person too .
You want to see cruel
walk into these inclusive WHORE following churches
bring a bible and read said bible . I have seen grown men shoved , punched at , swung and kicked at
by the very ones who holler TEN TRILLION times a day , WHEN DEFENDING SIN , GOD is love , be tolerant
be inclusive . DONT SEEM very tolerant , loving , Towards men with bibles .
And the so called love rainbow , you aint seen squat to as how these will treat one .
Not so friendly if you dont bow and kneel before their rainbow . The churches have PROBLEMS and BIG TIME TOO .

Yes, those "churches" are just trying to deceive people into thinking they are christian.
They are really the devils church. Churches of satan.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, those "churches" are just trying to deceive people into thinking they are christian.
They are really the devils church. Churches of satan.

interfaith and the judge not correct not will not enjoy this lovely song of truth .
oh but if you hate your brother you wont be one of the chosen few .
Ye shall not hate your neighbor in your heart you shall in any way CORRECT HIM and NOT ALLOW sin upon him .

 

[amigo de christo]

Sorry ' bout that Pin.

Suck it up.
You gave ME plenty of cute emoji that I have to accept as replies to my serious posts to you.

And the rest of what's above is nonsense.
Your explanation of God loving Jacob and hating Esau by stating that IT'S SCRIPTURE is laughable.

Sorry...I like to speak to members that are knowledgeable about both their belief system and Christianity in general and HOW TO exegete the bible using hermeneutics.

 

[amigo de christo]

Remember he who HATES his brother is in darkness .
Remember he who hates his brother wont be one of the chosen few , no matter how they danced around a pew .
And remember THIS
judge not correct not IS BAD NEWS .
Ye shall not hate your neighbor in your heart you shall in ANY way CORRECT him and NOT allow SIN upon Him .

 

[PinSeeker]

Please tag me in when speaking about me or it's like gossip.

I just mentioned you, that's all. No, it wasn't gossip, or like it, at all.

And I'd appreciate it if you'd state that you DO NOT AGREE with mainline Christianity...

I do not agree with many mainline Christians about certain things in God's Word (especially in the West, as I said) because they are wrong about those things, But I am a member of a church of a (very) mainline, (very) orthodox denomination.

instead of stating that I have misconceptions or misunderstandings about the reformed/calvinist faith.

Well that's a different thing altogether. And you do, as the record clearly shows. That doesn't mean I think you're dumb, or ignorant, or unintelligent, or anything like that; you're none of those things. It is what it is, though.

...the fact that I don't AGREE with you means that I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR UNORTHODOX SOTERIOLOGY...

You don't agree; that's very clear. But calling it unorthodox... now that's ignorant. And just demagoguery, I think. An attempt to build oneself up by tearing another down. Again, it is what it is. But my soteriology (the doctrine of salvation) I adhere to is aligned with what Paul says in Romans 8:29-30. I would hope everyone's is.

It does not mean that I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

Okay, so you're lying. I mean, if you do understand about a thing, but keep getting things wrong about that thing, then you either don't understand, or your're lying. There is no in-between. So I don't really know which it is, nd I don't care, to tell you the truth, but it is what it is.

I don't dislike Calvinists per se...although they are the most arrogant Christians I deal with....

AH! Now this... Yes, Calvinists can be very, very arrogant. Especially ones that grew up in a dispensational church, as I did. Especially newly minted Calvinists... they often think they have to go out with their newly acquired "bazooka of knowledge"... LOL! Yes, I totally agree with that. But I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that. But, we're all sinners, and sometimes, you just have to forgive folks, which... yeah, can be very, very difficult. Agree. That being said, haven't you been quite arrogant yourself at least in parts of this conversation? Yeah, I think we're both guilty of that.

But I do believe calvinism is not orthodox...

It's not, it's just that dispensationalism has taken off in the West, especially America since the Enlightenment. And, as Americans, it's abhorrent to think we don't control everything around us, being the "rugged individualists" we are...

...was never taught until Calvin, Knox, Zwigli and the rest --- Calvin being the most charismatic of course.

That's not correct at all. It wasn't called Calvinism until Calvin, and until his very public disagreement with Arminius. But Calvin himself credits Augustine for understanding Scripture the way he did, and Augustine lived over a thousand years before Calvin. The discussion we were having is along the same lines as the disagreement between Calvin and Arminius ~ you are an Arminian, whether you realize it or even accept it or not ~ and their disagreement was along the very same lines as Augustine and Pelagius around 400 A.D. So, we could also say that I am an Augustinian and you are a Pelagian...

Continued...

 

[PinSeeker]

Okay, ordaining and decreeing...

God decreeing something and God ordaining something IS EXACTLY THE SAME.

You know, I went for my afternoon run a little while ago and I was thinking about what I had posted to Lambano...

NOTE: I'm not gossiping about Lambano, I just mentioned him ...see what I did there? <smile>

So, okay, I'll agree that essentially, they are the same thing, at least in a certain sense. But even so, this decree, this ordainment... it should be understood to be a conscription to a state of being. In other words, God told Adam in Genesis 2:17 that if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he would "surely die in that very day." So God did not foreordain that sin in Adam ~ else He would be guilty Himself of sin ~ but rather He foreordained Adam's death ~ his slavery to unrighteousness, as Paul defines it in Romans 5. And, we are all born in this state. Again, this foreordainment/decree is a conscription, a consignment to death in sin, slavery to unrighteousness, not a foreordainment of sin itself. This is what Paul is talking about in Romans 5 and Romans 9 (both of which I've cited before) when he writes, respectively:

• "...just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned..." (Romans 5:12)
• "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" (Romans 9:21-24)

It is very similar in this respect to what will happen at the final Judgment, to be executed by Christ Jesus: many will be resurrected to judgment, and in the Judgment, they will be the ones on Jesus's left (referring to Matthew 25), and they will be foreordained to... will go away by Jesus's decree ~ conscripted to, consigned to, ~ well... a place away from the New Heaven and New Earth (I hope you don't adher to annihilation <smile>).

The problem really, GodsGrace, is the origin of evil. What is the true origin of evil. Satan was in Eden, right? Well, why? And how did Satan get there? Well, we don't know. So what is the origin of evil? Calvinists ~ and I would hope every Christian ~ would say, "I don't know." If God is self-existing and eternal ~ He is, of course ~ and He is perfect and holy and absolutely without sin ~ He is, of course ~ and He created the universe and everything in it by speaking it into existence ~ He did ~ then, yes, what... how... when... why... all of that... what is the origin of evil? We cannot possibly answer that question. You can't, I can't, no theologian of any ilk has ever been able to do that... Nobody. We can't possibly know. And, I kind of think that, if in the Bible there were some explanation, that probably still none of us would understand it.

Any plain dictionary will attest to this.

Sure, but that is only one sense of the word. The word itself can appear in different contexts and mean similar but different things.

Continued...

 

[PinSeeker]

See. It's you that does not understand Calvinism.

I'm going to dismiss this too, graciously. <smile>

God decrees everything that happens.

Right, but that doesn't mean He sanctions it or approves of it, or is the author of it. Some will think that, but, okay.

1. God ordains WHATSOEVER comes to pass.

Right, but again... well, see directly above.

2. However, God is not the creater of sin. So, IOW, God decrees the murder, but He is not responsible for it.

Right. Something decreed is not necessarily actively caused or ordered; it can merely be allowed. And in the case of God, if He allows sin to happen, can He not have a purpose ~ even a good... even a holy... ~ purpose in doing so? And this He does.

3. Then we hear of second causes. But, God is the REASON other causes exist...which means He's the cause of the 2nd cause.

What I said immediately above holds true here, too. God is the reason that anything exists, but that doesn't make him the reason that evil/sin in His Creation takes place.

You can align the above with

The Institutes of the Christian Religion
Book 1
Chapter 16
Paragraph 2

Yes. Again, what is the origin of evil? We can't possibly know. What we do know is that we cannot attribute evil or sin to God. God hates sin But some do... "Got Questions" is sometimes... questionable <chuckle> ...but is pretty good on this:

"God hates sin because it is the very antithesis of His nature. The psalmist describes God’s hatred of sin this way: “For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; no evil dwells with You” (Psalm 5:4). God hates sin because He is holy; holiness is the most exalted of all His attributes (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8). His holiness totally saturates His being. His holiness epitomizes His moral perfection and His absolute freedom from blemish of any kind (Psalm 89:35; 92:15; Romans 9:14)."​

So of course God is not the author of sin.

According to YOUR faith...God not only KNEW what people would have to be saved from..

Yes...

He CAUSED the object of the fall, the reason for the fall, and thus, the fall itself because God had, in YOUR faith...
CAUSED the fall by DECREEING it, ORDAINING it, PREDESTINATING it.

No. And John Calvin didn't believe this either. This is not the Reformed view of the Fall, or what caused it.

Please stop peddling a "soft" Calvinism....

Ah, you know what, this is an interesting comment. Because what you're attributing to John Calvin and, well, historical Calvinists, is something called hyper-Calvinism, which is not really historical Calvinism at all, but a terrible distortion of it. You can read about it at the following link (it's brief, which is good for you, because... <smile> ...it won't take much time effort or patience to read it):
Reformed Theology vs. Hyper-Calvinism

which DOES NOT EXIST.

Unfortunately, hyper-Calvinism is a real thing. Calvinism, too, but the two are very different.

Actually, your theology has many MYSTERIES in it because it creates CONFLICT in scripture...

More demagoguery. And untrue. But you're not alone in thinking that.

...scripture cannot contain conflict.

Absolutely true.

Kind of silly to bring up the fact that God is infinite but we're not. Thanks for the news.

Not silly at all; I knew you'd agree, but I thought it necessary at that juncture. I mean, by the same token, I could say it's "kind of silly" that you felt it necessary to say "scripture cannot contain conflict." But yeah, good that we agree on that at least.

God allowed us to know everything we need to know about Him and the method of our salvation.

Agree.

You sure like to talk about NOTHING.

Ah, so talking about something is talking about nothing. Noted...

Calvinism does not require a devil because they make God to be the devil.

Absolutely not. But that is the perception of some, but you know what they say about perception...

Your theologians of right now attest to the fact that God creates sin: Doug Wilson, John Piper, even RC Sproul.

Good men... Well, as much as any of us can be called good, anyway... R.C. Sproul said this (emphasis mine): “The distortion of double predestination looks like this: There is a symmetry that exists between election and reprobation. God WORKS in the same way and same manner with respect to the elect and to the reprobate. That is to say, from all eternity God decreed some to election and by divine initiative works faith in their hearts and brings them actively to salvation. By the same token, from all eternity God decrees some to sin and damnation (destinare ad peccatum) and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative. In the case of the elect, regeneration is the monergistic work of God. In the case of the reprobate, sin and degeneration are the monergistic work of God. Stated another way, we can establish a parallelism of foreordination and predestination by means of a positive symmetry. We can call this a positive-positive view of predestination. This is, God positively and actively intervenes in the lives of the elect to bring them to salvation. In the same way God positively and actively intervenes in the life of the reprobate to bring him to sin. This distortion of positive-positive predestination clearly makes God the author of sin who punishes a person for doing what God monergistically and irresistibly coerces man to do. Such a view is indeed a monstrous assault on the integrity of God. This is not the Reformed view of predestination, but a gross and inexcusable caricature of the doctrine. Such a view may be identified with what is often loosely described as hyper-Calvinism and involves a radical form of supralapsarianism. Such a view of predestination has been virtually universally and monolithically rejected by Reformed thinkers.”

WE mainline Christians believe God ALLOWS evil....

Ah, well we're on the same page, then, which makes me (and Calvinists, and Reformed folks)... mainline Christians... at least on this subject. <smile>

In case you haven't heard, YOUR faith believes God CREATES evil.

Ah calamity... Well, yeah, yet another hyper-Calvinist distortion of that text... And people like you falsely attribute it to Calvin and to, well, the vast majority of Reformed folks. Yeah, there are a few outliers out there...

And, again, YOU make God to be evil....

More demagoguery. Not true at all.

No need to lecture @Lambano regarding this.

I wasn't. No need for such arrogance...

Enough of this.

Ohhhh, if only you really meant that... And then actually stuck to it...

study up on what you believe Pin....

Sure, we all should. You included.

And I would suggest you study up on what Calvin really believed. Yes, you quoted from the Institutes, but you don't quite get it... <smile> I mean... up to a certain point you do, maybe, but it's kind of like watching Infinity War and then thinking that's the end of the story because you never heard of Endgame and of course didn't go see it... <smile> Spoiler alert! <smile> Thanos didn't really win after all. Iron Man died, though. And so did Black Widow. Oh, man, Natalie... That fight between her and Clint for who got to be the sacrifice for the soul stone... greatest scene in the whole saga, in my opinion...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Hey You!]

Am I a regenerated man in Christ because I believe in the 5 points of TULIP?

Grace and peace to you.

No; you are not Regenerate because you Accept TULIP...

You are Regenerate despite your Creed...

You are Regenerate because your heart has been Pricked by God and his Word...

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks.
You are very kind to me.
I love you.

My Dad has diabetes he's 85.
We eat a high carbohydrate diet. Lots of beans, rice, potatoes, pasta, bread, fruit.

No refined sugar, just whole foods.
Only drink water.

I'm wondering if there is anything that Italians do to keep blood sugar down after meals.
I know Mediterranean countries like Spain and Italy eat lots of carbohydrates.
Do you have any diabetics in your family or maybe friends?

My Dad is not on any drugs for his diabetes.
He takes cinnamon and apple cider vinegar with meals.

I just bought a $1300 rowing machine so he can exercise.
Exercise really helps keep blood sugar down.

Any foods or native herbs that Italians use for diabetes?

Hi Titus,
I'm very sorry to hear about your dad.
Italians eat a lot of salad and fruit.
They don't like desert too much.

I think that for diabetes eating carbs is not such a good idea since
they turn into sugar....but I don't know enough about this to say anything that
might be of help to you.

Also, if there are no other problems, walking about 30 minutes a day is also good for
diabetes. A friend of mine stopped taking pills just from cutting out sugar and walking.
The row machine is also very good.

It's good of you to be concerned about your father.
He's fortunate to have you.
God bless you and stay informed.
GG

 

[GodsGrace]

BreadofLife is the meanest person I've come across on religious forums.
He cant seem to keep himself from insulting others.

Well, I couldn't agree with you more Titus.
He's called me a liar many times because I don't agree with something or other that he states.
Also, he's not doing the Catholic Church any favors....many protestants dislike the CC anyway, and
then they meet up with him and, wow, what a terrible example.
Of course I've told him this to his face, so no problem.
But let's leave it at that.
I know Catholic doctrine....if you ever really want to know something about the CC you could
always ask me...I'd be happy to help out.

 

[GodsGrace]

I just mentioned you, that's all.

Pin,,,,when you mention another member on a forum...
YOU MUST tag that member and make him part of the conversation.
I'm more than sure this is a rule here.

Plus, it's common courtesy.

Now. I don't intend to have a convo with you....
sorry.

I'll just be making comments, at times, when the Holy Spirit so leads me.

No, it wasn't gossip, or like it, at all.


I do not agree with many mainline Christians about certain things in God's Word (especially in the West, as I said) because they are wrong about those things, But I am a member of a church of a (very) mainline, (very) orthodox denomination.


Well that's a different thing altogether. And you do, as the record clearly shows. That doesn't mean I think you're dumb, or ignorant, or unintelligent, or anything like that; you're none of those things. It is what it is, though.


You don't agree; that's very clear. But calling it unorthodox... now that's ignorant. And just demagoguery, I think. An attempt to build oneself up by tearing another down. Again, it is what it is. But my soteriology (the doctrine of salvation) I adhere to is aligned with what Paul says in Romans 8:29-30. I would hope everyone's is.


Okay, so you're lying. I mean, if you do understand about a thing, but keep getting things wrong about that thing, then you either don't understand, or your're lying. There is no in-between. So I don't really know which it is, nd I don't care, to tell you the truth, but it is what it is.


AH! Now this... Yes, Calvinists can be very, very arrogant. Especially ones that grew up in a dispensational church, as I did. Especially newly minted Calvinists... they often think they have to go out with their newly acquired "bazooka of knowledge"... LOL! Yes, I totally agree with that. But I don't think you can make a blanket statement like that. But, we're all sinners, and sometimes, you just have to forgive folks, which... yeah, can be very, very difficult. Agree. That being said, haven't you been quite arrogant yourself at least in parts of this conversation? Yeah, I think we're both guilty of that.


It's not, it's just that dispensationalism has taken off in the West, especially America since the Enlightenment. And, as Americans, it's abhorrent to think we don't control everything around us, being the "rugged individualists" we are...


That's not correct at all. It wasn't called Calvinism until Calvin, and until his very public disagreement with Arminius. But Calvin himself credits Augustine for understanding Scripture the way he did, and Augustine lived over a thousand years before Calvin. The discussion we were having is along the same lines as the disagreement between Calvin and Arminius ~ you are an Arminian, whether you realize it or even accept it or not ~ and their disagreement was along the very same lines as Augustine and Pelagius around 400 A.D. So, we could also say that I am an Augustinian and you are a Pelagian...

Continued...

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay, ordaining and decreeing...


You know, I went for my afternoon run a little while ago and I was thinking about what I had posted to Lambano...

NOTE: I'm not gossiping about Lambano, I just mentioned him ...see what I did there? <smile>

So, okay, I'll agree that essentially, they are the same thing, at least in a certain sense. But even so, this decree, this ordainment... it should be understood to be a conscription to a state of being. In other words, God told Adam in Genesis 2:17 that if he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he would "surely die in that very day." So God did not foreordain that sin in Adam ~ else He would be guilty Himself of sin ~ but rather He foreordained Adam's death ~ his slavery to unrighteousness, as Paul defines it in Romans 5. And, we are all born in this state. Again, this foreordainment/decree is a conscription, a consignment to death in sin, slavery to unrighteousness, not a foreordainment of sin itself. This is what Paul is talking about in Romans 5 and Romans 9 (both of which I've cited before) when he writes, respectively:

• "...just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned..." (Romans 5:12)
• "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" (Romans 9:21-24)

It is very similar in this respect to what will happen at the final Judgment, to be executed by Christ Jesus: many will be resurrected to judgment, and in the Judgment, they will be the ones on Jesus's left (referring to Matthew 25), and they will be foreordained to... will go away by Jesus's decree ~ conscripted to, consigned to, ~ well... a place away from the New Heaven and New Earth (I hope you don't adher to annihilation <smile>).

The problem really, GodsGrace, is the origin of evil. What is the true origin of evil. Satan was in Eden, right? Well, why? And how did Satan get there? Well, we don't know. So what is the origin of evil? Calvinists ~ and I would hope every Christian ~ would say, "I don't know." If God is self-existing and eternal ~ He is, of course ~ and He is perfect and holy and absolutely without sin ~ He is, of course ~ and He created the universe and everything in it by speaking it into existence ~ He did ~ then, yes, what... how... when... why... all of that... what is the origin of evil? We cannot possibly answer that question. You can't, I can't, no theologian of any ilk has ever been able to do that... Nobody. We can't possibly know. And, I kind of think that, if in the Bible there were some explanation, that probably still none of us would understand it.


Sure, but that is only one sense of the word. The word itself can appear in different contexts and mean similar but different things.

Continued...

I read a little at the beginning.
You mentioned @Lambano....
you tag him when you mention him.
Otherwise we use the expression: "the other member".

You should learn what you believe Pin.
If you're going to be reformed...
BE REFORMED.

Find out what the reformed mean and stop trying to confuse those that can be confused.
This is VERY dishonest of you.

Let me make this clear to some that might be reading along and don't understand what you post very well.....

GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD
GOD LOVES EVERY ONE OF HIS CREATURES THAT HE CREATED.
ANY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CREATURES COULD HAVE THEIR SOUL SAVED FOREVER
BY SIMPLY DOING THE FOLLOWING:

1. Believe in God. God has revealed Himself to man from the beginning of time.
Romans 1:19-21

2. Obey God. This is what Jesus asks.
John 3:36
John 14:15

Everything else is talk.

 

[KUWN]

By the same token, from all eternity God decrees some to sin and damnation (destinare ad peccatum) and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative. In the case of the elect, regeneration is the monergistic work of God. In the case of the reprobate, sin and degeneration are the monergistic work of God.

Just to bring up one aspect of this discussion. Personal sins are not the basis for eternal condemnation. Nobody is condemned to the lake of fire because of their sins. Christ paid the penalty for all sins; that's the good news (gospel). In fact, God did not impute the sins onto the person who committed them, but put all sins on Christ's account. Today, personal sins are only related to temporary condemnation, not eternal condemnation.

See 2 Pt 2.1, 1 John 2.2, 2 Cor 5.19 for starters.

 

[Hey You!]

@KUWN Jesus only Bore Confessed Sins that were Nailed by God to the Cross...

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm going to dismiss this too, graciously. <smile>


Right, but that doesn't mean He sanctions it or approves of it, or is the author of it. Some will think that, but, okay.

How distorted of a view of God you have.

What you're saying above is:
GOD DECREES, PREDESTINATES EVERYTHING
BUT
That doesn't mean He approves of it or is the author of it.


I make no further comment...
those reading along could TRY for themselves to understand the juxtaposition you just created.

Think of it: WHY would God decree something He does not agree with?

Rhetorical question of course.

Right, but again... well, see directly above.


Right. Something decreed is not necessarily actively caused or ordered; it can merely be allowed. And in the case of God, if He allows sin to happen, can He not have a purpose ~ even a good... even a holy... ~ purpose in doing so? And this He does.

Try to learn the difference between
DECREE
and
ALLOW


As I've said, EVERY Christian denomination EXCEPT the reformed believe God allows.
ONLY the reformed believe God decrees.

If you don't like your faith system...
come on over to ours...
It more properly represents God Almighty
and it also makes more sense because God is not a God of confusion.

What I said immediately above holds true here, too. God is the reason that anything exists, but that doesn't make him the reason that evil/sin in His Creation takes place.


Yes. Again, what is the origin of evil? We can't possibly know. What we do know is that we cannot attribute evil or sin to God. God hates sin But some do... "Got Questions" is sometimes... questionable <chuckle> ...but is pretty good on this:

"God hates sin because it is the very antithesis of His nature. The psalmist describes God’s hatred of sin this way: “For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; no evil dwells with You” (Psalm 5:4). God hates sin because He is holy; holiness is the most exalted of all His attributes (Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8). His holiness totally saturates His being. His holiness epitomizes His moral perfection and His absolute freedom from blemish of any kind (Psalm 89:35; 92:15; Romans 9:14)."​

So of course God is not the author of sin.


Yes...


No. And John Calvin didn't believe this either. This is not the Reformed view of the Fall, or what caused it.


Ah, you know what, this is an interesting comment. Because what you're attributing to John Calvin and, well, historical Calvinists, is something called hyper-Calvinism,

NO SIR!

Hyper is a cute way of saying CALVINIST.
A CALVINIST IS A CALVINIST.

As I said, if you want to be reformed,
then be it.
But at least accept that what you believe WAS NEVER BELIEVED THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF THE CHURCH...
and NO OTHER FAITH ACCEPTS IT EXCEPT THE REFORMED.

which is not really historical Calvinism at all, but a terrible distortion of it.

Funny Pin.
Read the Insitutes.
The more one reads, the more horrific it becomes.

I'm sure you understand that you cannot even be secure in your salvation because you don't really
know that God really chose you.
I posted the paragraph to you but you don't reply....
You just follow your agenda.

You can read about it at the following link (it's brief, which is good for you, because... <smile> ...it won't take much time effort or patience to read it):
Reformed Theology vs. Hyper-Calvinism

No need to read Pin.
It's all the same.

Unfortunately, hyper-Calvinism is a real thing. Calvinism, too, but the two are very different.


More demagoguery. And untrue. But you're not alone in thinking that.


Absolutely true.


Not silly at all; I knew you'd agree, but I thought it necessary at that juncture. I mean, by the same token, I could say it's "kind of silly" that you felt it necessary to say "scripture cannot contain conflict." But yeah, good that we agree on that at least.


Agree.


Ah, so talking about something is talking about nothing. Noted...


Absolutely not. But that is the perception of some, but you know what they say about perception...


Good men... Well, as much as any of us can be called good, anyway... R.C. Sproul said this (emphasis mine): “The distortion of double predestination looks like this:

EVERYTHING CALVINISTIC IS DOUBLE PREDESTINATION.

Think it over.
If God chooses some for salvation, what happens to the rest?

Right. They go to hell.
DOUBLE PREDESTINATION.

There is a symmetry that exists between election and reprobation. God WORKS in the same way and same manner with respect to the elect and to the reprobate. That is to say, from all eternity God decreed some to election and by divine initiative works faith in their hearts and brings them actively to salvation. By the same token, from all eternity God decrees some to sin and damnation (destinare ad peccatum) and actively intervenes to work sin in their lives, bringing them to damnation by divine initiative. In the case of the elect, regeneration is the monergistic work of God. In the case of the reprobate, sin and degeneration are the monergistic work of God. Stated another way, we can establish a parallelism of foreordination and predestination by means of a positive symmetry. We can call this a positive-positive view of predestination. This is, God positively and actively intervenes in the lives of the elect to bring them to salvation. In the same way God positively and actively intervenes in the life of the reprobate to bring him to sin. This distortion of positive-positive predestination clearly makes God the author of sin who punishes a person for doing what God monergistically and irresistibly coerces man to do. Such a view is indeed a monstrous assault on the integrity of God. This is not the Reformed view of predestination, but a gross and inexcusable caricature of the doctrine. Such a view may be identified with what is often loosely described as hyper-Calvinism and involves a radical form of supralapsarianism. Such a view of predestination has been virtually universally and monolithically rejected by Reformed thinkers.”

There are so many errors...it's sad really.
But yes, you have explained calvinism.
Surely not the God the rest of us are worshipping.

Ah, well we're on the same page, then, which makes me (and Calvinists, and Reformed folks)... mainline Christians... at least on this subject. <smile>


Ah calamity... Well, yeah, yet another hyper-Calvinist distortion of that text... And people like you falsely attribute it to Calvin and to, well, the vast majority of Reformed folks. Yeah, there are a few outliers out there...

Get up to speed Pin....
Hyper calvinism IS Calvinism.

No difference.
Just makes you think you sound a little nicer....
But you're still BLASPHEMING God.

Maybe you could figure out how?
If not, I could help you along.

More demagoguery. Not true at all.


I wasn't. No need for such arrogance...


Ohhhh, if only you really meant that... And then actually stuck to it...


Sure, we all should. You included.

And I would suggest you study up on what Calvin really believed. Yes, you quoted from the Institutes, but you don't quite get it... <smile> I mean... up to a certain point you do, maybe, but it's kind of like watching Infinity War and then thinking that's the end of the story because you never heard of Endgame and of course didn't go see it... <smile> Spoiler alert! <smile> Thanos didn't really win after all. Iron Man died, though. And so did Black Widow. Oh, man, Natalie... That fight between her and Clint for who got to be the sacrifice for the soul stone... greatest scene in the whole saga, in my opinion...

Grace and peace to you.

Are you talking about a video game?!

I won't be replying.

But retain the right to make comments as I see fit.

 

[Titus]

Personal sins are not the basis for eternal condemnation. Nobody is condemned to the lake of fire because of their sins.

I cant agree about this.
Our sins seperate us from God.
Do you know of any passage that teaches our sins don't?
If so please share.

Isaiah 59:2,
- it's your sins that have seperated you from God, your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear

Hi Titus,
I'm very sorry to hear about your dad.
Italians eat a lot of salad and fruit.
They don't like desert too much.

I think that for diabetes eating carbs is not such a good idea since
they turn into sugar....but I don't know enough about this to say anything that
might be of help to you.

Also, if there are no other problems, walking about 30 minutes a day is also good for
diabetes. A friend of mine stopped taking pills just from cutting out sugar and walking.
The row machine is also very good.

It's good of you to be concerned about your father.
He's fortunate to have you.
God bless you and stay informed.
GG

I cant believe an Italian told me not to eat carbs. I've lost my will to live.
What kind of world are we living in when Italians tell us not to eat bread, pasta etc.
My dreams gone, there dead. Come Lord Jesus, come