You see Brakelite the oneness spoken in John 17 which Trinitairans and possibly yourself don't understand is the same oneness God has been revealing through His works in the OT.
Do you know the
Prophet like unto Moses? And what of Moses' experience with the Angel of the Lord? The oneness Yahweh sought with Israel in the Wildreness?
It is my principle complaint against the councils and those who established the various creeds, that they attempted to formulate the"oneness" of the Father and Son, by defining it, then enforcing it on the church. But you and your church can?
No, the Bible has declared in so many ways this oneness! Forget the Godhead Brakelite - if you think the Oneness of God is found in Him Alone then you know not the Father or the way in which He shares His Character and Glory.
We cannot understand how the Father and Son are one.
Again you continue to show you lack of understanding the oneness Jesus is seeking for all God's Children in John 17.
We are told they are one certainly but how that oneness is ontologically explained we are left in ignorance.
Oneness with God is based in His Divine Nature which he shares with His Children. The Glory & Character of God is Divine Nature.
I don't know how the Father and Son, despite being 2 individuals, are one.
They share the same nature as Spirit beings—holy and pure. God is light, unapproachable, and Christ now embodies that same light. However, only Christ and the angels can diminish that light enough for us to be in their presence, while the one true God remains eternally unapproachable in His full light.
who alone has immortality,
who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. 1 Tim 6:16
Maybe now you might begin to understand how Christ cannot be God but shares a oneness with Him along with all the Angels and the Saints to come!
That they are both holy, righteous, with the Son being the express image of the Father, in character, nature, and I presume appearance (as we are, although imperfectly), and while I agree with you that Jesus was 100% human, He was also connected intimately with the Father through His divine nature, and it was through that connection that He was able to be or example in living a holy sinless life.
You are super close - you should study carefully John 17 and then go back and look in the OT at how God works through the Angelic Host.
Truth will follow.
All the above is an expression of unity, but there's that unity in substance that scripture speaks of. It is that we cannot define our explain. Just as we cannot explain how the Father begot a Son in eternity. But we can believe He did based on the fact that He sent His Son into the world to become human, gave the same trials and temptations as we do, and overcome as we can through faith.
He sent forth "living manna" in symbol into the womb of Mary and prduce a Son from a handmaiden. Let's make that aboundantly clear. This in the only way God could overcome our nature and reveal His Righteouness through sins flesh. Any other way would be a fruad.
His divinity at times flashed through His humanity, (as in the temple when everyone fled from him except those who loved him, and in the garden when Judas and his friends fell backwards)
This was the righteous indignation of a man who, on three separate occasions, cleansed the temple. God's character is goodness and severity so we should not be surprised a Son of His would not reveal severity on the odd occasion. You wait till he returns not as a lamb but the Lion of the Tribe of Judah! You will see wrath like its never been senn in the Earth before.
but never did Jesus take advantage of divinity in order to live a loving selfless life in service to others.
He had no divinity if you mean it in nature? He had his Fathers mind, thinking and reasoning. You should take more care how you use the word Divinity - in mind he was His Fathers Son but in nature 100% human.
If He used His divine nature at all, He couldn't be our example.
See?
Even the miracles of healing and providence He acted in faith in the Fathers love... as He said, My Father doeth the works.
The HS (God's Power) was at his disposal and has nothing to do with nature as many men and women had these gifts.
I fail to see any disadvantage by believing as I do, and why anyone would be so vehemently opposed.
If you hold to dualism you are as far as the furtherst Trinitarian.
If you hold a correct understanding of the nature of Christ you cannot believe in pre-existence.
If you understand that God sent His Word, which will
not return void, and that His son, born of a woman, grew to be the wisest and most selfless man to ever live, then you will recognize Him when He returns. You would also know why the Angels revered him not for Deity but for being worthy!
I have great respect for you, Brakelite, and I've long admired your thoughtful and respectful online demeanor and if you are to know these things for yourself God will open your understanding as I believe He has done for Wrangler and APAK.
If you ever want to study John 17 - happy to do so anytime even privately...no doubt there are many treasures awaiting there.
God bless
F2F
