It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[covenantee]

Right…..

Matthew 11:25-26 says how God has closed the minds of the so called 'wise' peoples.
Isaiah 29:9-12 says that those who choose false teachings will become locked into them.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 The coming of this wicked person is the work of Satan, it will be accompanied by all the powerful signs and miracles that falsehood can devise and every sort of evil that deceives those who do not open their minds to the truth. They are doomed to perish, because they refuse to listen to the Gospel of the truth, so God has put them under a compelling delusion; which makes them believe what is false. So all will be judged and condemned who have rejected the truth, but have made sinfulness their choice.

But there is yet time for anyone to reject unbiblical teachings and to clear the mind, enabling the truths of scripture to dawn in your understanding.

So you know more about Paul's temples than Paul knows about Paul's temples.

How impressive!

Better exhume and correct him.

 

[Keraz]

So you know more about Paul's temples than Paul knows about Paul's temples.

How impressive!

Better exhume and correct him.

Your misapplication of Pauls Words, is very unimpressive.

 

[covenantee]

Your misapplication of Pauls Words, is very unimpressive.

Your denial of Paul's consistent hermeneutic is singularly depressive.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right…..

Matthew 11:25-26 says how God has closed the minds of the so called 'wise' peoples.
Isaiah 29:9-12 says that those who choose false teachings will become locked into them.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 The coming of this wicked person is the work of Satan, it will be accompanied by all the powerful signs and miracles that falsehood can devise and every sort of evil that deceives those who do not open their minds to the truth. They are doomed to perish, because they refuse to listen to the Gospel of the truth, so God has put them under a compelling delusion; which makes them believe what is false. So all will be judged and condemned who have rejected the truth, but have made sinfulness their choice.

But there is yet time for anyone to reject unbiblical teachings and to clear the mind, enabling the truths of scripture to dawn in your understanding.

Oh, so you have decided that how someone interprets Revelation 20 (premil or amil) is a basis for whether or not someone will inherit eternal life or will be condemned to the lake of fire? You apparently don't even know what is required for salvation which makes me concerned for your soul. What someone believes in relation to Revelation 20 has nothing to do with whether someone is saved or condemned.

 

[Keraz]

Oh, so you have decided that how someone interprets Revelation 20 (premil or amil) is a basis for whether or not someone will inherit eternal life or will be condemned to the lake of fire? You apparently don't even know what is required for salvation which makes me concerned for your soul. What someone believes in relation to Revelation 20 has nothing to do with whether someone is saved or condemned.

Beliefs about the end times -right or wrong are NOT a Salvation issue.
You are disgustingly rude to accuse me of such a thing.

The problem with false beliefs, is when they don't happen, people may lose their faith. My efforts here, are to help some understand what God really has planned for His peoples.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Beliefs about the end times -right or wrong are NOT a Salvation issue.

You make it one by trying to associate others here with 2 Thess 2:9-12 which is a passage about people who are NOT saved.

You are disgustingly rude to accuse me of such a thing.

You are disgustingly rude for associating a passage that is clearly referring to unsaved people with people who disagree with your end times views.

The problem with false beliefs, is when they don't happen, people may lose their faith. My efforts here, are to help some understand what God really has planned for His peoples.

Your efforts are in vain because you don't present the truth. Your focus is entirely on physical things and never on spiritual things.

 

[Keraz]

You make it one by trying to associate others here with 2 Thess 2:9-12 which is a passage about people who are NOT saved.

That Prophecy refers to all who have made sinfulness their choice.
We do not know everyone who has done that, but I can confidently assert that many Church goers would fit that category. It fits those who promote and teach false theories and who mislead the flock.
As you know; even Satan believes Jesus is real.

My aim is not to cause upset, but to make people realize that the Prophesies will be fulfilled as Written. NOT twisted and misapplied as some would have it. Accusations of being insufficiently Spiritual, are false, as the whole outcome of the Bible narrative is Spiritual. But before that, we do live in a physical world and it is physical things which will happen before the final Judgment, after the Millennium.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How do you think that 1 Thessalonians 5:2 supports pretrib? It doesn't support pre-trib whatsoever. The day of the Lord will result in the destruction by fire of the heavens and the earth and will not be followed by a 7 year time period of tribulation as pre-tribs imagine.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Why does it say "they shall not escape" when the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night? Because no one except those who are in the spiritual light instead of spiritual dark and are made immortal can escape the "sudden destruction" that will occur on that day.

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Probably because you guys have never been able to unpack. What Jesus said that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles,till at time of the Gentiles is complete. Which in fact is Romans 9, 10, 11,

Your deal has zero provision for unpacking God regrafting in his Wayward wife...the Jews.

 

[covenantee]

Probably because you guys have never been able to unpack. What Jesus said that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles,till at time of the Gentiles is complete. Which in fact is Romans 9, 10, 11,

Your deal has zero provision for unpacking God regrafting in his Wayward wife...the Jews.

These Jews?

Matthew 21
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

1 Thessalonians 2
14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

[Keraz]

Your deal has zero provision for unpacking God regrafting in his Wayward wife...the Jews.

Paul does say the Jews can be re-grafted back onto the Tree of Life, but nowhere in scripture is it said that any Jews other than a remnant, will be. Many Prophesies tell of their virtual destruction.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That Prophecy refers to all who have made sinfulness their choice.

Yes, and it refers to people who are not saved and are instead damned. So, why are you trying to apply that passage to anyone here when mostly all you know about anyone here is what they believe about end times prophecy?

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The truth being talked about here is the gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. It's not about what end times doctrine you believe in. So, to apply this passage to people just because they disagree with your end times doctrine is wrong.

We do not know everyone who has done that, but I can confidently assert that many Church goers would fit that category. It fits those who promote and teach false theories and who mislead the flock.
As you know; even Satan believes Jesus is real.

Do you think people like WPM and myself fit that category? While you may disagree with our amil doctrine, have we done anything to suggest that we don't fully embrace the gospel and don't have faith in Jesus Christ for our salvation?

My aim is not to cause upset, but to make people realize that the Prophesies will be fulfilled as Written.

Then don't try to apply a passage like 2 Thess 2:9-12 to someone just because you disagree with their end times doctrine. That passage is referring to people who are deceived and not saved and are damned instead.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Probably because you guys have never been able to unpack. What Jesus said that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles,till at time of the Gentiles is complete. Which in fact is Romans 9, 10, 11,

Your deal has zero provision for unpacking God regrafting in his Wayward wife...the Jews.

Weak response from you, as usual. You didn't address anything I said. Because you can't.

As for the Jews, there have been plenty who were regrafted in for the past almost 2,000 years, including some in Paul's day. That's why he said in Romans 11:11-14 that he hoped to help save some of those who had been blinded in his day. And I'm sure he did. But, you completely ignore that and postpone the salvation of the Jews for at least 2,000 years or so despite a good number of Jews being saved during that time.

 

[WPM]

Probably because you guys have never been able to unpack. What Jesus said that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles,till at time of the Gentiles is complete. Which in fact is Romans 9, 10, 11,

Your deal has zero provision for unpacking God regrafting in his Wayward wife...the Jews.

It has been happening for 2000 years. Open your eyes and read history.

 

[Keraz]

Do you think people like WPM and myself fit that category? While you may disagree with our amil doctrine, have we done anything to suggest that we don't fully embrace the gospel and don't have faith in Jesus Christ for our salvation?

I am very sorry if my posts seem to be accusing you or anyone specifically.
We all know in our hearts, our own status with God.
But the truth is, that all have sinned and gone astray, so at the end of it all, everyone must rely on Gods saving grace and forgiveness.

I post against false theories, because I don't like to think any Christian should have the wrong belief about what is Prophesied for the end times.
A 'rapture to heaven' is never said to happen. We must endure until the end.

The idea we are in the Millennium now, is refuted by the fact of Satan being still able to deceive people and the plain Words of Revelation 20.

The Christian peoples are the Israelites of God and all the Promises of God to Israel, now pertain to us; His Chosen ones. 1 Peter 2:9-10

 

[covenantee]

The Christian peoples are the Israelites of God and all the Promises of God to Israel, now pertain to us; His Chosen ones. 1 Peter 2:9-10

Amen to that.

 

[shepherdsword]

Wow...WPM is like the energizer bunny of false eschatology. All of these years and he is still rambling on about the same old topic. He is still using the same old arguments that were destroyed on bibleforums.org back when it was active Hi @WPM

 

[Scott Downey]

Wow...WPM is like the energizer bunny of false eschatology. All of these years and he is still rambling on about the same old topic. He is still using the same old arguments that were destroyed on bibleforums.org back when it was active Hi @WPM

How bizarre to just come out like that. Do you do that with everyone ?

 

[Davidpt]

Wow...WPM is like the energizer bunny of false eschatology. All of these years and he is still rambling on about the same old topic. He is still using the same old arguments that were destroyed on bibleforums.org back when it was active Hi @WPM

I remember those days back then on bibleforums.org. He had some issues with me back then and I with him. And it still continues to this day. I went by the username divaD at the time, David spelled backwards. I guess because the username David was already taken by someone else at the time.

 

[Davidpt]

How bizarre to just come out like that. Do you do that with everyone ?

Nothing bizarre about it. You just don't understand that some of us have a history with each other that goes way back. I don't think any of us hate each other though it is possible that @WPM might hate me. I don't think he's ever had anything good to say about me. But it is what it is, I guess.

 

[shepherdsword]

I remember those days back then on bibleforums.org. He had some issues with me back then and I with him. And it still continues to this day. I went by the username divaD at the time, David spelled backwards. I guess because the username David was already taken by someone else at the time.

I remember you well as divaD. You and he and David Taylor were always in a rumble...lol