If God is real, then how did Noah’s Ark happen?

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Skovand

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It's a story that backs up the fact that David killed Goliath and someone else killed his brother.
And David hit Goliath with a stone and knocked him out then cut off his head with Goliath's sword.
That's not a contradiction.
There are two accounts where David and Saul seem to be meeting for the first time and there are several possible explanations.
Sure there are several possible stories to harmonize them. But they are not actually based off of any data, but a goal to create a systematic theology which requires mental gymnastics.

The idea of the stories being in a different order could be true. But even if true it does not change the issues I’ve highlighted.
The idea that scribal error happened could be true. But there is not any actual evidence to suggest the stories should all be systematic. Instead we see three separate stories from three different groups and sects of Jews from completely different eras who had different collections of the bible. Then we see these stories being redacted and seamed together to respect all traditions and Jews have been perfectly fine with it. We see almost all biblical scholars who are part of international high level academic societies either peer reviewed material in archeological and historical journals all landing on the same basic ideas. Then we see several concepts put forth by various men who predetermined the Bible must be inerrant and systematic who also tend to fail to get much published in peer renewed well respected journals and often are the same people who think android literally happened despite all scientific literature stating otherwise. Then people try to pretend these works are equal to one another as just opinions.
 

RLT63

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Sure there are several possible stories to harmonize them. But they are not actually based off of any data, but a goal to create a systematic theology which requires mental gymnastics.

The idea of the stories being in a different order could be true. But even if true it does not change the issues I’ve highlighted.
The idea that scribal error happened could be true. But there is not any actual evidence to suggest the stories should all be systematic. Instead we see three separate stories from three different groups and sects of Jews from completely different eras who had different collections of the bible. Then we see these stories being redacted and seamed together to respect all traditions and Jews have been perfectly fine with it. We see almost all biblical scholars who are part of international high level academic societies either peer reviewed material in archeological and historical journals all landing on the same basic ideas. Then we see several concepts put forth by various men who predetermined the Bible must be inerrant and systematic who also tend to fail to get much published in peer renewed well respected journals and often are the same people who think android literally happened despite all scientific literature stating otherwise. Then people try to pretend these works are equal to one another as just opinions.
Sounds like you prefer liberal scholars, peer reviewed by liberal scholars.
 

Galgal

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How did Noah’s Ark actually happen? Does anyone else think that seems a little far fetched? I’m just asking what other people opinion is on this? Also, why does the bible constantly contradict itself.
The story of Noah's Ark is a parable. All the first chapters of the book of Genesis are a parable. The Bible does not describe the creation of the material Universe, God created the world INSIDE man, these are our internal ideas about the world, and not the world itself.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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So in the 1 Samuel 16 did Saul make David his Armour Bearer and know who David’s family was?
No. That occurred in 17 as is written. In verse 15 of Chptr 17 we see David returned home. We simply do not know how much time passed and if Saul as king would even remember someone as lowly as a harp player. If we extrapolate from other kings and their attitudes. when David went home, saul probably forgot all about him as he had so many other issues to deal with. we just don't know.
 

Skovand

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Sounds like you prefer liberal scholars, peer reviewed by liberal scholars.
Sounds like I prefer where the 80%+ of biblical scholars land regardless of race, age and ethnicity that went through the most qualified colleges and not the backwards uncredited colleges. These colleges are made up of people of all faiths, including atheists, and of all political stances including republicans.

So you have that manuscript yet showing Goliath’s brother being killed within the same book?
As for Noah, have any data on the distribution of fossils? Was it by size? Was it by mass? Was it completely disorganized? Was it very organized by chemical half-lives and basal forms taking on more and more diverging traits?
Have any manuscripts of Genesis 6-9 that’s older than the oldest manuscripts of the epic of Gilgamesh?
What’s the three dates most leaned on for the age of Sampson, Chronicles and Kings? What’s the sources for these manuscripts? Do they use specific language that showcases distinct cultures and eras?
 

Skovand

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No. That occurred in 17 as is written. In verse 15 of Chptr 17 we see David returned home. We simply do not know how much time passed and if Saul as king would even remember someone as lowly as a harp player. If we extrapolate from other kings and their attitudes. when David went home, saul probably forgot all about him as he had so many other issues to deal with. we just don't know.
I suggest just rereading the last handful of posts since yours and seeing if it’s already been discussed.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I suggest just rereading the last handful of posts since yours and seeing if it’s already been discussed.
Well you asked me why I believe why I do and I answered. what will reading others do for the issue at hand.

I tried to best answer apart from opinion (though I did give a possibility). I do not see a conflict between 16 and 17 at all.

YOu have something else?
 

Skovand

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Well you asked me why I believe why I do and I answered. what will reading others do for the issue at hand.

I tried to best answer apart from opinion (though I did give a possibility). I do not see a conflict between 16 and 17 at all.

YOu have something else?
Well I already answered those questions. Reread the previous posts after I asked you 24 hours ago. I don’t see a need to repeat it. Besides, I can’t imagine you know half of what the other guy knows and so I imagine he presented a stronger argument than you can.
 

talons

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@Skovand , wow good day for a hike in NA .
I also want to highlight this.
1 Samuel 16 says this about David .
17 So Saul said to his servants, “Provide for me someone who can play well, and bring him to me.” 18 One of the young men answered, “I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite who is skillful in playing, a man of valor, a warrior, prudent in speech, and a man of good presence, and the Lord is with him.”

He is a man.
He is a man of valor.
He is a skillful Warrior.

He’s a man, not a boy and he’s a warrior.
The servant gives Saul a description of David . But what did David look like when Saul saw him ? I believe Saul saw a young man of good countenance who could play the harp and carry his armor when needed . The two other attributes said to belong to David , "man of valor" and "skillful warrior " would not need to be demonstrated at all for the tasks David now performed for the King Saul . Just because the servant gave a description of David as such wouldn't mean that Saul would believe all he was told without seeing David in battle .

In chapter 17 though….
33 Saul said to David, “You are not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him, for you are just a boy, and he has been a warrior from his youth.

He’s a boy.
He’s not a warrior but a sheep herder.
He’s not a warrior man or valor.
David has been around Saul a lot by now but has David ever proved himself in battle before King Saul , not yet . We are told Saul loved David and now David is going to fight the mighty Philistine , Saul was taken aback because he knew David well and David was just a youth in the eyes of Saul no matter what the servant said of David in CH 16 .

Do you see what I am saying here @Skovand ?
 

RLT63

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Sounds like I prefer where the 80%+ of biblical scholars land regardless of race, age and ethnicity that went through the most qualified colleges and not the backwards uncredited colleges. These colleges are made up of people of all faiths, including atheists, and of all political stances including republicans.

So you have that manuscript yet showing Goliath’s brother being killed within the same book?
As for Noah, have any data on the distribution of fossils? Was it by size? Was it by mass? Was it completely disorganized? Was it very organized by chemical half-lives and basal forms taking on more and more diverging traits?
Have any manuscripts of Genesis 6-9 that’s older than the oldest manuscripts of the epic of Gilgamesh?
What’s the three dates most leaned on for the age of Sampson, Chronicles and Kings? What’s the sources for these manuscripts? Do they use specific language that showcases distinct cultures and eras?
What college did you go to?
What is your degree in?
If you have already said, I apologize, I missed it
 
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Skovand

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@Skovand , wow good day for a hike in NA .

The servant gives Saul a description of David . But what did David look like when Saul saw him ? I believe Saul saw a young man of good countenance who could play the harp and carry his armor when needed . The two other attributes said to belong to David , "man of valor" and "skillful warrior " would not need to be demonstrated at all for the tasks David now performed for the King Saul . Just because the servant gave a description of David as such wouldn't mean that Saul would believe all he was told without seeing David in battle .


David has been around Saul a lot by now but has David ever proved himself in battle before King Saul , not yet . We are told Saul loved David and now David is going to fight the mighty Philistine , Saul was taken aback because he knew David well and David was just a youth in the eyes of Saul no matter what the servant said of David in CH 16 .

Do you see what I am saying here @Skovand ?
I do not. I think it’s grasping at straws and not consistent with an authentic reading of the available data.
 

RLT63

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Well I already answered those questions. Reread the previous posts after I asked you 24 hours ago. I don’t see a need to repeat it. Besides, I can’t imagine you know half of what the other guy knows and so I imagine he presented a stronger argument than you can.
You don't have to insult people to disagree with them
 

Skovand

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What college did you go to?
What is your degree in?
My main degree is unrelated to theology. It’s in biology with a focus on evolutionary ecology with an extra emphasis on coevolution within habitat systems. Mostly nocturnal blooming fragrant angiosperms and moths.

Learning about science is what lead to me wanting to dive more deeply into theology 15 years ago. A focus on data over dogma. As for the specific college I don’t ever list it in these kinds of forums just like I don’t drop the name of the church. 2 years of theology though was through liberty (which is terrible theology ) but good surveying followed by 2 years at Portland.
 
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Skovand

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This is the issue with these forums. It’s dominated by the dumbest groups of people who lack almost any sense of qualifications to talk about anything. I’m struggling with sticking here until the 10th and leaving. I don’t care if I get kicked. I don’t care if I get banned. When I made my initial post about the masses in here a handful of people said to give it time. So I did and all it has done is further and further affirm what I initially said. There are a handful of decent people. But it’s overwhelmingly one of the stupidest forums I have ever been in full of people I can’t stand and don’t like. People who I think are the cause of the majority of hell in America. The majority of people here are people I consider my enemy because of what they support. The pain and suffering they generate with their backwards thinking. They are the same to me
as the KKK and flat earthers.
 

talons

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I do not. I think it’s grasping at straws and not consistent with an authentic reading of the available data.
That is the best you can do . There is no conflict between 1Samuel 16 and 17 , it is only in the mind of the scoffers of the bible .
 

RLT63

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This is the issue with these forums. It’s dominated by the dumbest groups of people who lack almost any sense of qualifications to talk about anything. I’m struggling with sticking here until the 10th and leaving. I don’t care if I get kicked. I don’t care if I get banned. When I made my initial post about the masses in here a handful of people said to give it time. So I did and all it has done is further and further affirm what I initially said. There are a handful of decent people. But it’s overwhelmingly one of the stupidest forums I have ever been in full of people I can’t stand and don’t like. People who I think are the cause of the majority of hell in America. The majority of people here are people I consider my enemy because of what they support. The pain and suffering they generate with their backwards thinking. They are the same to me
as the KKK and flat earthers.
You would find more people who agree with you at Christian Forums. Com
And the people you consider your enemies will not miss you when you're gone
I remember your avatar from way back so you must have been here a while or left and came back
 
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talons

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This is the issue with these forums. It’s dominated by the dumbest groups of people who lack almost any sense of qualifications to talk about anything. I’m struggling with sticking here until the 10th and leaving. I don’t care if I get kicked. I don’t care if I get banned. When I made my initial post about the masses in here a handful of people said to give it time. So I did and all it has done is further and further affirm what I initially said. There are a handful of decent people. But it’s overwhelmingly one of the stupidest forums I have ever been in full of people I can’t stand and don’t like. People who I think are the cause of the majority of hell in America. The majority of people here are people I consider my enemy because of what they support. The pain and suffering they generate with their backwards thinking. They are the same to me
as the KKK and flat earthers.
I think you are saying , in the Alabama vernacular , that most of the posters on this forum don't have "walking around sense " .
As Christians we are to love our enemies . If you abandon us how can you show your enemies you love them ?
 

Skovand

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I think you are saying , in the Alabama vernacular , that most of the posters on this forum don't have "walking around sense " .
As Christians we are to love our enemies . If you abandon us how can you show your enemies you love them ?
It’s far more loving for me to bounce than the alternative. Which is why I’m bouncing. I rather not start to drop cuss word after cuss word and pictures no one will appreciate.
 

Rich R

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How did Noah’s Ark actually happen? Does anyone else think that seems a little far fetched? I’m just asking what other people opinion is on this? Also, why does the bible constantly contradict itself.
Yes, it does seem far fetched when looked at from a 21st century Western worldview. However, it was written to an ancient people in a far away land that had a very different worldview. God spoke on their terms and to their interests, not to ours. To understand the flood story it is necessary to see it from their point of worldview. If you do that it makes perfect sense.

There are many questions people ask about the Genesis flood. Was it universal or local? Where did the water go after the flood? How could all the animals fit on the ark along with all the food they would need? How did Noah get panda bears from China and giraffes from Africa? Why didn’t the lions eat the other animals? These and many other questions like them are fodder for Bible naysayers. But are they even the right questions to ask? They all arise from a modern scientific mindset. But the Bible is not a science book and therefore offers no answers to those questions. The Bible is a theology book, a book that explains how to live in the right relationship with God and that is what the original audience, the people to whom God actually spoke, would have cared about. The people of the Ancient Near East, including the Jews, had concerns about life that were vastly different from those of the modern West. I believe the primary things they would have been concerned about regarding the flood account was what the people did that caused God to send the flood, as well as what God meant to accomplish by sending it. Those are the questions which the flood account addresses.

What the people did to cause God to send the flood is rather obvious. Genesis 6:5 says that every thought was only evil continually. They never got anything right when it came to ensuring a just and equitable society. Everything they did, without exception, caused further damage to God’s perfect creation. Ignoring God’s wisdom, they were hell bent on determining for themselves what was good and what was evil, what was functional and what was dysfunctional. God could have let things continue as they were, but that would mean injustice, greed, violence, sexual perversions, and other such unsavory things would not only continue, but grow at an ever increasing rate. Life would be lost forever and death would reign in its stead. Such a state of affairs would have made it quite impossible for God to fulfill the promise He made in Genesis 3:15 to send a redeemer, of rescuing the people from the disaster they themselves created.

Given the hand that was dealt to Him (He doesn’t always get a royal flush), the only thing He could do was to start all over from scratch. In order to rescue mankind from the ravages of sin and death He had to destroy the original creation, now ruined by the actions of people, and replace it with a brand new one. Such an extreme measure was certainly not His desire, let alone His delight. Ezekiel 18:23 says that God has no pleasure in seeing even the wicked die. Verse 32 in that same chapter says the same thing (on a side note; what is between repeated phrases is usually significant). When God says something twice it means that it is established, leaving no doubt whatsoever that God wants all men and women to choose good over evil so that they may live and not die. But He wouldn’t have forced them to turn from their evil ways. They had free will, they could make their own choices. God had nothing to do with the people burning their hands when they themselves stuck them in the fire. While true that God made the fire, He intended it to be used for cooking food, not their hands! To put it in simple terms, the people brought the flood on themselves.

That brings us to the second question the original reader of the flood account would have asked, namely, what did God intend to accomplish by sending the flood? I believe that they would have gleaned from the account that He meant to renew the now ruined land He originally created in Genesis. He wanted to make it a land where people could once again live in perfect fellowship with Him. I believe those who knew the Torah would have seen the unmistakable commonalities between God’s original creation activities and those seen in the aftermath of the flood. I believe they would have understood that despite man’s depravity, God still wanted to live with them in a veritable paradise, and that He would do whatever necessary to bring it about.

In the aftermath of the flood, the first thing God did was to restrain the waters (Gen 1:7 & 8:2) after which He caused dry land to appear (Gen 1:9 & 8:5). Next we see the dove returning with an olive branch, the reappearance of vegetation (Gen 1:12 & 8:11). God then told Noah and his family to go into the land and to release the animals into the land so they can be fruitful and multiply (Gen 1:20-26 & 8:16-17), after which God told Noah and his sons to multiply and fill the land (Gen 1:27-28 & 9:1). Finally, God provided food for them (Gen 1:29 & 9:3).

However, God didn’t just renew the land and call it quits. That just wasn’t good enough for Him. No siree! That’s just not how He rolls. He also felt compelled to make a promise that would reverberate through the ages, namely, that He would never again destroy the land by water. But, as if that weren’t good enough, it gets even better: Genesis 8:21 says that God made that promise to a people that He knew would be more or less just like the ones that caused the flood in the first place, to a people whose hearts imagined evil from youth.

Gen 8:21,

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

But that wouldn’t deter God from continuing with His plan of redeeming those people. He just loved people that much and that was that. Case closed!

The renewal of the land after the Genesis flood was not God’s end game. It was just the beginning of God showing His relentless generosity and loyalty which was motivated solely by His deep personal care for people. Time and time again, for some 4,000 years, He persisted in demonstrating that care despite the never ending insults He got in return. God experienced disappointment after disappointment because of the actions of those whom He so dearly loved and cared for. He relentlessly pleaded with them over and over to choose life but each time they chose death instead. Nonetheless, He wouldn’t give up on His plan of a new Eden, a garden of delight where He could dwell with the people He so loved. That was His desire from the day He created Adam, it’s never changed, and it never will change. Yahweh is the gold standard when it comes to determination.

The love story reached its zenith when He sent His only begotten son to die on the cross in order to save us. He no more wanted to see His son suffer such a horrible death than he wanted to send the flood in Genesis. But He knew that it was the only way to redeem us from the power of darkness. Just like the corrupted land of Genesis had to be destroyed to make room for a new land, so does our flesh have to first die in order to be raised in glory.

John 12:24,

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

1 Cor 15:36,

[Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

If we are asleep when trumpet sounds and Jesus makes his second advent in glory, God will surely raise us up from the grave with a new body, a body fashioned like unto that of the resurrected Christ Jesus. Unfortunately, as both Jesus and Paul said, we have to die in order to get resurrected. He’d rather we didn’t die in the first place, but since Adam brought death to all, God had to make lemonade out of lemons, something at which He excels beyond imagination. Never overstepping man’s free will, including that of Jesus, God, through His infinite resourcefulness, was able to convince enough people through the millennia to do what was required to accomplish His goal of a renewed Eden in which a new tree of life would provide healing for those whom He so dearly loved.

Rev 22:2,

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.

Whereas death still reigned after the flood, the sting of death will be destroyed and life will reign into the ages. Moreover, whereas the renewed land after the flood was still filled with people whose hearts imagined evil from their youth, the future earth will be filled with people whose hearts overflow with the love of God. I can’t think of a better closing than Paul’s homage to God in Romans:

Rom 11:33,

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
 
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