Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

[MA2444]

I understand the concept of spiritual belief. But I take issue with an appeal to spiritual discernment because it unfairly and unjustly condemns those with which we disagree. I don't know another person's heart. And I should never presume that I am always right. I might be the one who is wrong.

Everyone will not agree with you at times. That's to be expected. But why dwell on it and trouble your spirit over it?

I know where you're coming from though, I've wondered those things myself before. In fact what would happen if somehow we were both right? From the perspective of, we are all of the body of Christ, right? But perhaps I am a foot or a toe, and the man I'm arguing with is a hand or finger? They are of the same body, but can a foot understand a hand? Maybe not.

So why argue with them, while we know some things that the Lord has shown us we certainly don't know everything yet and prolly wont on this earth. Lots of times when two people are arguing on the board and both of them are very very adamant. You can tell that each of them believe it what they say.

I don't think it's our job to argue doctrine with people. We plant seeds with our words and some will hear and some will not, but it is the Holy Spirit's job to water the seed. So just concentrate on speaking the truth and no more.

Do you see how many threads get ruined and go off topic over an inane argument between two people or more? I used to argue with them but we have to be careful not to get distracted and stay focused.

 

[MA2444]

Hmmm. I subscribe to Hebrews 4:12, the Word of God is alive. Did you ever read Confessions by St. Augustine? It delves into this point very eloquently.

Consider Jesus simple command, “Follow me.” Objectively, it is a simple thing to be led. However, one can discern it means quite a bit more than merely literally following in the foot steps of another.

That's a great scripture that I also subscribe to.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart..../KJV

The word of God is a discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart and if it is a discerner then of course it is alive. So that means that, when we read the bible, that it's reading us at the same time!

So all we have to do to determine the spiritual state of our soul is to open the bible and read it. Anyone don't believe me? Just go read the Beatitudes and you will plainly see yourself all over the beatitudes! In a good way or in a bad way.

I don't think most Christians can accept this yet, as a truth. It's just a book. well, God only wrote one book so it's the only book on earth with those attributes. And every word of it is the absolute truth, we just don't understand it all yet.

 

[CadyandZoe]

True…Agree…regarding knowing an others heart.

Nor on a forum of strangers is intent clearly revealed…
Genuine interest for godly path walkers?
Genuine interest in a point not thought of?
Get a rise with nonsense issues?
A place to daily whine about silly stuff?
On and on there is a mix.

As far as myself…I go to the SOURCE.
Meaning I read Gods Word, Study Gods Word…and Consult God for His Understanding.

I notice others citing long lists of their sources outside of Scripture…which neither impressed me or captures my time.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

God bless you also.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Those sound like good questions for a moderator, who am I?

Thanks. I am attempting to moderate the discussion by asking leading questions instead of simply answering questions myself.

If one guy says a passage means X and you believe it to mean Y, then someone is lacking in spiritual discernment for sure.

Really? What if they are simply mistaken?

Accusing someone of having a lack of spiritual discernment isn't the best course of action because it will touch the other mans pride and the argument is on. So that would be sort of a distraction into a rabbit hole and not even the topic any more? How edifying is that?

This is very insightful in my opinion.

Yeah, it usually comes across as I know I'm right because the Lord said thus...so thus sayeth the Lord is not prone to be accepted by many people. It sounds sort of arrogant. If you know something is true and someone don't believe you, so what? They might not have eyes to see or ears to hear with yet, so arguing with them never edifies anyone. If one soul comes along and has eyes to see and ears to hear then you hve planted a seed, right?

Yes, I think so.

But if you argue with the non-believer for 3 pages then it's easy to lose your credibility through emotions and poor choices of words.

I agree.

I don't even know the Angels name or anything. I'd like to shake his hand one day and meet him again, and Praise the Lord.

I hope we all get to meet those who helped us along the way. :)

 

[Taken]

As I said, the formula leads to the conclusion that we are all God.

I find that a very strange comment.

• If “the Father and I are one” means Jesus is God, why is the HS excluded from this account? [/QUOTE]
  
  Reviewing Scripture…it is not always in chronological order.
  
  The Jews were expecting a Messiah.
  Shepherds were given knowledge the Messiah Christ’s revealing was soon to be.
  His birth occurs, He reaches 30 years.
  He chooses 12 willing Disciples, teaches Them.
  Jesus Challenges who they think He is.
  They have no full answer.
  God tells “Simon Barjona”
  Simon repeats the Answer aloud.
  Jesus commends and Verifies, it’s True, Jesus IS The Christ.
  The Disciples Voice Agreement.
  Jesus commands they Tell no one.
  
  Can’t say when you first learned, Jesus IS the Christ, although some 2.000 + years later, that Knowledge Is well world wide Known, and accepted by many.
  
  Back in Jesus’ Day…(2,000+ago). The Disciples were still learning, Recorders hand Writing and Copying and book binding scant.
  And the People at large learning slowly, bits and pieces.
  
  Today we have mass produced bound books of Scripture…Full of Jesus’ teachings…with the flare of “according to” what each Disciple/Apostle heard and saw.
  
  *Clearly who the Christ IS is uncovered…
  *Jesus IS the Word of God. He is the Maker.
  *Christ IS Jesus IS the Seed, the Wisdom, the Power of God.
  
  ONE human man has multiple names, titles, descriptions, can and do name their own body parts, name cities, lands, estates, cars, boats, homes, etc.
  
  The same applies to The ONE God…
  
  Not a mystery.
  
  Glory to God,
  Taken

 

[Wrangler]

If “the Father and I are one” means Jesus is God, why is the HS excluded from this account?

Reviewing Scripture…it is not always in chronological order.

The trinitarian formula and the verse were Jesus makes the anti-trinitarian statement that ‘the Father and I are one’ have nothing to do with chronological order.

 

[Taken]

The trinitarian formula and the verse were Jesus makes the anti-trinitarian statement that ‘the Father and I are one’ have nothing to do with chronological order.

Since who was being taught little bits of information in Scripture is not a consideration… and you Know Jesus IS the Christ….why were you wondering About The “HS” not being mentioned… in …
John 10:30…I am my father are one…..?

If you Know Jesus IS the Christ… don’t you also KNOW…WHAT the Christ IS?

Do you Understand WHAT IS Gods Glory? …
It IS His “His Almighty Supreme Power”!
And KNOW…God “Gives” His Glory To…
No one
Jesus…The Light
Christ…The Power
Yet CHRIST JESUS…IS the Glory of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keiw]

Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

Yes? Please offer Scriptural Quote.

Glory to God,
Taken

None did. Every bible writer knew 100% the Messiah has a God-Psalm 45:7- God anointed Jesus with the oil of exultation more than his companions( angels)
Most translations are error filled to make it look like Jesus is God. Done by satans will centuries ago.

 

[Keiw]

would we not simply understand that Jesus was both fully human and fully God and that he ascended to heaven to return back to God - to exist as God as he came out of God .

He is the mediator and the propitiation for our sins... God lowered himself to come to earth in the form of flesh as a man and provided his gift of salvation

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood..

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jn 4:10 ... he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.


this word " propitiation " means to make reconciliation for - to be merciful for. i am in need of the mercy of God. It is a cold, dark and lonely world filled with many paths that lead to destruction and i need Jesus every moment of every day,

Rev 3:12-While back in heaven, Jesus assures all that he has a God--Do you teach--God has a God. That is impossible since all know there is one God to all= the Father-1Cor 8:6

 

[chandlere880]

yes, I do believe that God himself has a God - God prays to himself and God even worships himself

and even God Repents to Himself .

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth........
Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Jdg 2:18 ............. it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them.

I believe God is capable of repenting, worshiping and glorifying himself and even speaking to himself

every time God speaks, declaring " I am the Lord God and I alone receive worship " this is God speaking to himself and speaking about himself at the same time.


Please consider the passage Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

also
God said, Let there be light
God said, Let there be a firmament
God said, let the dry land appear
God said, Let the earth bring forth grass,
God said, Let there be lights........for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
God said, Let the waters bring forth

here, God is speaking to himself ︸✒
God can speak through the wind,
God can speak through the animals - a donkey
God can speak by writing on a wall
God can speak through an Angel
God can speak through dreams and visions

God can speak through his Son - Jesus

His son was conceive by God whom is an invisible Spirit and when His Son speaks it is the Spirit Of God In Him that speaks - the way God speaks to himself is exactly the way we as humans speak to ourselves

as humans - our spirit or mind will tell us what to say and we speak and our mind will hear and know and perceive we are speaking - this is how God speaks through his Son - Spirit to the mind - mind speaking what the Spirit says therefore and spirit receives and understands the mind is speaking correctly.

I believe that God prayed to himself as Jesus prayed to the Spirit of God that was within him, inside him - the spirit he submitted to and obeyed.

 

[Wrangler]

yes, I do believe that God himself has a God - God prays to himself and God even worships himself

Crazy. Just crazy.

 

[Keiw]

yes, I do believe that God himself has a God - God prays to himself and God even worships himself

and even God Repents to Himself .

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth........
Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Jdg 2:18 ............. it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them.

I believe God is capable of repenting, worshiping and glorifying himself and even speaking to himself

every time God speaks, declaring " I am the Lord God and I alone receive worship " this is God speaking to himself and speaking about himself at the same time.


Please consider the passage Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

also
God said, Let there be light
God said, Let there be a firmament
God said, let the dry land appear
God said, Let the earth bring forth grass,
God said, Let there be lights........for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
God said, Let the waters bring forth

here, God is speaking to himself ︸✒
God can speak through the wind,
God can speak through the animals - a donkey
God can speak by writing on a wall
God can speak through an Angel
God can speak through dreams and visions

God can speak through his Son - Jesus

His son was conceive by God whom is an invisible Spirit and when His Son speaks it is the Spirit Of God In Him that speaks - the way God speaks to himself is exactly the way we as humans speak to ourselves

as humans - our spirit or mind will tell us what to say and we speak and our mind will hear and know and perceive we are speaking - this is how God speaks through his Son - Spirit to the mind - mind speaking what the Spirit says therefore and spirit receives and understands the mind is speaking correctly.

I believe that God prayed to himself as Jesus prayed to the Spirit of God that was within him, inside him - the spirit he submitted to and obeyed.

Unsound reasoning.

 

[Taken]

None did.

Disagree.

Every bible writer knew 100% the Messiah has a God-

Every Bible Reader should Know…
God IS His own God and His Own Counselor and Limited by His Own Word.

Earthly Kings ARE their own King, have counselors and limited by their own laws, death or assassins.

Earthly Presidents ARE their own President, have advisors and limited by their own laws, death or assassin.

Most translations are error filled to make it look like Jesus is God. Done by satans will centuries ago.

I would say Kings HAVE …
A Kingdom … A Throne….A Crown.


John 18:
36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Where would you say Jesus’ Kingdom was?

Pss 10:
[16] The LORD is King for ever and ever:

Whom specifically is the King forever and ever ?

Rev 19:
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Whom specifically is this King over all kings?

 

[chandlere880]

i understand and thank you for replying and enjoy writing as responding to you.

I believe that most all Christians understand that it is not the body of the man Jesus that is worshiped as God but the Spirit Holy of God inside the man.

Many people in Christianity do not put much thought and dept into the Trinity Doctrine because it is a word that simply does not exist in the Scriptures.

the words such a " CO ETERNAL " CO EQUAL " - ? these type of words are nowhere found in scriptures, so it is all theory and perspective of how the Christian world attempts to understand God and his Son.

Jesus is the Christ or the ANOINTING of the Spirit of God in how God's Spirit is is being applied, ANOINTED - placed, applied, positioned, stationed, appointed, working, rubbing, moving

the Greek word Anointing / Christ means - the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, to handle); to furnish what is needed; , to apply and to use.

Therefore, everything Jesus does is God himself also doing

Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son

we receive the spirit of Jesus, { { the Spirit Of Jesus }} this Spirit is the Anointing of the Holy Spirit of God in our life.

God is speaking through his son, inhabiting and dwelling in his son - ✦ Simply put - God is invisible Spirit who speaks through his only born son whom is the physical manifestation of God - that is inhabited by the invisible spirit of God himself. SPIRIT OF THE SON IS ETERNAL GOD

 

[Taken]

Did anyone claim Jesus Was God, Including Jesus?

None did.

John 10:
[30] I and my father are one.

John 10:
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

And?

Maybe you…could Quote the Scripture whereby JESUS’ “corrects His accusers” ??


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keiw]

Disagree.



Every Bible Reader should Know…
God IS His own God and His Own Counselor and Limited by His Own Word.

Earthly Kings ARE their own King, have counselors and limited by their own laws, death or assassins.

Earthly Presidents ARE their own President, have advisors and limited by their own laws, death or assassin.



I would say Kings HAVE …
A Kingdom … A Throne….A Crown.


John 18:
36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

Where would you say Jesus’ Kingdom was?

Pss 10:
[16] The LORD is King for ever and ever:

Whom specifically is the King forever and ever ?

Rev 19:
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Whom specifically is this King over all kings?

Psa10=Jehovah-LORD all capitols=Jehovah
Jesus kingdom is in heaven.
1Cor 15:24-28--Prior to this=Rev 21:1 when all is back to perfection-Jesus hands the kingdom back to his God and Father and subjects himself.
God is in subjection to no one
Jehovah was king here-1Chron 16:31--- Jesus had to be appointed as a king-Dan 7:13-15( only one greater than Jesus can give him a kingship)--so Jehovah is king forever.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Crazy. Just crazy.

The idea that God prays to himself is a logical and reasonable conclusion of the Trinitarian Doctrine, is it not? :)

 

[Keiw]

Did anyone claim Jesus Was God, Including Jesus?



John 10:
[30] I and my father are one.

John 10:
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

And?

Maybe you…could Quote the Scripture whereby JESUS’ “corrects His accusers” ??


Glory to God,
Taken

Yes-ONE in purpose
The Israelite religious teachers were liars-See Matt 12:24-- did you believe them here as well? Thats what hate filled hearts do=lie.

 

[Wrangler]

The idea that God prays to himself is a logical and reasonable conclusion of the Trinitarian Doctrine, is it not? :)

It’s the abandonment of logic to suppose such a scenario where Sovereign will is dispersed.

There is not one verse that indicates God The Father, YHWH, prays to anyone or submits to the will of anyone.

 

[Taken]

Psa10=Jehovah-LORD all capitols=Jehovah
Jesus kingdom is in heaven.
1Cor 15:24-28--Prior to this=Rev 21:1 when all is back to perfection-Jesus hands the kingdom back to his God and Father and subjects himself.
God is in subjection to no one
Jehovah was king here-1Chron 16:31--- Jesus had to be appointed as a king-Dan 7:13-15( only one greater than Jesus can give him a kingship)--so Jehovah is king forever.

Uh… consider this tidbit..
God “purposed” in a Few Hebrews to hear, believe and Teach other Human Hebrews Gods Word ..
(Commonly called Prophets)…

Eh…troubles from the get go…common men Trying to Believe…
What they could NOT…
See, hear, smell, taste, touch…
Bummer!

Gods “solution”…
God will use His Prophets…to FORETELL men What God SHALL Do….Before He Does it…Then see IF common men can Believe His Works and Believe in God.

Okay…oops… not good enough…How So?
Uh…(Men living astronomical Decades)….and they Having TO WAIT…forty, fifty + years TO SEE….a Prophecy come into fruition.

Sheesh…!!
Okay y’all stubborn, short-sighted, stiffed necked men…

Gods gives a Prophecy.. and within a few short years…the Prophecy comes to Pass …
So how about NOW….can y’all Trust to Believe IN God?

Well…um…but look at…the Gentiles…how They who DO NOT Believe …Work their Angles And PROSPER …

Gentiles….hum…Have a close Look…See WHO among them are PROSPERING…and WHO is the majority of forced Servants….maids cooks, seamstresses. sex objects, soilders, metal forgers, builders, etc.

So moving Along…From Prophets…To God establishing an Exclusive group of People…offsprings of the Hebrews…
*Appointing Them… A King.
(like Gentiles have kings)
*Appointing them LAND.
*Appointing each LAND a governor of sorts
*Appointing them a group To Hear, Write Distribute, to All the Land holding Groups… a LIKE Doctrine For all those in the Lands To likewise adhere to, and help one another.
(Commonly called the 12 Sons of Jacob ( ie as Governors so to Speak).
And Each “Group) collectively called the Tribes of ISRAEL,,, (with the Tribof LEVI, not being appointed LAND….rather…He, his people, the listeners of Gods Word, the Recorders, Writers, Copiers, and Distributers.)

Meantime…Levi’s works, traveling, slow, tedious….the Tribsmen…have NOT lost their Interest IN them SEEING The “seemingly” quickly Prospering Gentiles…
….AND Gentile Kings…ways had routinely BEEN… More LAND…equals MORE Wealth, More Power, More Status…More Comfort…!
Nothing new!

…And there you have it…Gentiles invading…ISRAELS LANDS with Soldiers….AND….where is the Israelites Power House Of Soldiers?
…One Invisible GOD…They “are” slowly “learning ABOUT…little by little.”

So now What…??
God gave the Hebrews a king out of their own as they wanted…they just didn’t GET (because they Could Not SEE, God was their Power/House SOLDIER….rather they saw…thousands of Gentile men with weapons of Iron…poised and able for a slaughter of their men, women, children.

I can not say Who has or has not Paid attention To Gods Creation, Making, Design, Intents, Interventions….
However what ONE who does read, study…
Should be going Step by Step..of HOW and WHAT God, Has Anciently, Historically, and modernly, (past 2,000 Years)… Given and TO WHOM…and FOR WHAT.

Nothing from the Beginning HA Changed Regarding GODS Desire….
Being THAT created MEN… Will Willingly Choose to Hear, Trust, Believe Gods Word…and Willing MAKE their Choice To BELIEVE and TRUST In God.[/]

So what’s the TID-BIT ???

Prophets…humans failed.
Kings….….humans failed.
Tribes…..…humans failed.
Gentiles….humans failed.


A short Revealing IN Scripture….

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Gods Word IS God…as much as your word is you.

Gods Power is God …as much as your power is you.

Gods Wisdom is God…as much as your wisdom is you.

If you want to call your word “truth”...
And want to call your power “bicepts”…
And call your wisdom “great”…
And call your habitat “keiw’s place”…

Your prerogative ….Same as it is For God to call what is He…per His Perogative.

Gods Word…God called…a NAME Above ALL others…Jesus.

Gods Light (Power) God called…Jesus…and Titled THE CHRIST.

Gods SEED, God called The Christ.

Gods WISDOM, God called by the Title CHRIST.

Gods KING of kingdAnd LORD of lords God called …Jesus…

Are you getting it Yet?

Father God, Son of God…are Not multiples, duplicates OF God, but IS God who (like men have multiple names, titles, things they accomplish while Fulfilling the Role of a CEO, an Employer, A Husband, A daddy, A Brother,
A neighbor, A toilet fixer, A teacher, A counselor….etc.
One Same MAN, effecting the “lives” of numerous Different people, In Different capacities)…

The SAME applies To the ONE Holy, without Begining or Ending, Creator and Maker…
The Lord God Almighty….

And Jesus Confirmed…

John 10:
[30] I and my father are one.

Jesus emphasized for men to believe Him…

John 14:
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Yours….any human mans perogative to hear, learn, trust, believe….or not.

Glory to God,
Taken