Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
The Greeks loved mathematics 'cuz it's purely a mental exercise, not conditioned on imperfect material tools like measurement sticks. Euclid's geometry was considered the epitome of Absolute Truth for centuries, but...
Euclidian geometry is based on 5 assumed postulates, the 5th being:
If a straight line falls on two straight lines in such a manner that the interior angles on the same side are together less than two right angles, then the straight lines, if produced indefinitely, meet on that side on which are the angles less than the two right angles.
That one is a bit more cumbersome than the other 4. A lot of mathematicians tried to find a simpler way of phrasing it, like "the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees". However, a Jesuit priest named Giovanni Saccheri got the brilliant idea of assuming that Euclid's 5th postulate was false (but the other 4 were still assumed true), and then seeing if that led to a contradiction. (Which would raise the 5th postulate to the level of "theorem".)
He couldn't find a contradiction. You can construct a geometry system that is equally valid as Euclid.
This bothered Father Saccheri a lot, because, to him, that was an attack on the possibility of Absolute Truth, which would be an attack on the existence of God Himself. Totally unacceptable. He couldn't find a contradiction, so he manufactured an imaginary one and published a book titled, Euclid Cleared of Every Flaw. Other mathematicians repeated his work found the so-called "contradiction" was not really there, and they got credit for discovering what's called "Hyperbolic Geometry".
Both Euclidean and Hyperbolic geometry is logically valid. Which one corresponds to reality? (The real test of Truth.) I read that one of our Deep Space probes went out beyond the orbit of Pluto with an experiment to measure the angles of a triangle as far outside the Sun's gravitational well as possible. The sum of the angles was within measurement uncertainty of 180 degrees, so the experiment was inconclusive.
Euclidian geometry is based on 5 assumed postulates, the 5th being:
If a straight line falls on two straight lines in such a manner that the interior angles on the same side are together less than two right angles, then the straight lines, if produced indefinitely, meet on that side on which are the angles less than the two right angles.
That one is a bit more cumbersome than the other 4. A lot of mathematicians tried to find a simpler way of phrasing it, like "the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees". However, a Jesuit priest named Giovanni Saccheri got the brilliant idea of assuming that Euclid's 5th postulate was false (but the other 4 were still assumed true), and then seeing if that led to a contradiction. (Which would raise the 5th postulate to the level of "theorem".)
He couldn't find a contradiction. You can construct a geometry system that is equally valid as Euclid.
This bothered Father Saccheri a lot, because, to him, that was an attack on the possibility of Absolute Truth, which would be an attack on the existence of God Himself. Totally unacceptable. He couldn't find a contradiction, so he manufactured an imaginary one and published a book titled, Euclid Cleared of Every Flaw. Other mathematicians repeated his work found the so-called "contradiction" was not really there, and they got credit for discovering what's called "Hyperbolic Geometry".
Both Euclidean and Hyperbolic geometry is logically valid. Which one corresponds to reality? (The real test of Truth.) I read that one of our Deep Space probes went out beyond the orbit of Pluto with an experiment to measure the angles of a triangle as far outside the Sun's gravitational well as possible. The sum of the angles was within measurement uncertainty of 180 degrees, so the experiment was inconclusive.
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Wow. That's hilarious. (to me)
Perhaps the reason absolute truth seems so illusive is because faith is required.
[
Lambano
Well-Known Member
It is. In this case, our ability to know "Truth" is limited by the accuracy of our measurement devices, and the fact that the means used can only prove that space is NOT Euclidean; it can't prove that it IS Euclidean.
The one thing I find sad about that story is that Father Saccheri felt it necessary to turn his back on Truth in order to defend knowing "Absolute Truth" absolutely.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Stop being so self-centered. I was not talking about you but moral relativists and the philosophy, which is inherently contradictory.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Word games.
Anyone can irrationally debate anything. Normal debate is about things that are doubtful, compelling and contradictory evidence.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
of course my friend . when i made mention it , what i mean to say is NOT all who claim
to be christain are of Christ . in other words a ton of what is commonly known as christendom is not OF CHRIST .
They CINO , christain in name only . That there pope most now love and embrace even within
what is commonly called protestant realm , that man is doing the work of anti christ . This entire site can rise up
against what i said and have me banned . But given the chance , I WOULD SAY IT AGAIN .
But why . why would and why do i say intefaith is of anti christ
Before i answer that question . DO you beleive that it is possible for one to claim to BELEIVE
and yet come to DECIEVE . If not , YA BETTER BELEIVE IT . paul knew it well .
false brethren brought in UNAWARES to spy out our liberty which we have in CHRIST .
false brethren DO EXIST . and THEY SURE CAN LIP HIS NAME , BUT MAN DO THEY DECEIVE .
If any man , woman or child , or a speaking ass , donkey , ass , says I BELIEVE but then implies
in any way shape for fashion its not necessary for others to believe they come only to deceive .
Now for another question . IS IT POSSIBLE for the decieved to believe THEY DO SERVE GOD
and yet , and yet , THEY DO NOT , DO NOT KNOW HIM . YOU BET IT IS .
WE have one father , GOD .
And one answered them , WHOM THEY KNEW NOT and REJECTED , IF GOD WERE YOUR FATHER , said HE ,
YOU WOULD HAVE LOVED ME for i came forth of GOD .
INTERFAITH IS OF ANTI CHRIST . and no matter how darn good and loving it sounds to so very very many
THEY LOVE A FAT OL LIE that DENIES GOD . FOR IT DENIES JESUS THE CHRIST WHOM THE FATHER SENT
And yet day by day and hour after hour THEY CLIAM oh we do love JESUS we do love GOD .
HAD THEY LOVED JESUS , THEY HAD NEVER DENIED HIS WORDS . TO BELIEVE ON HIM . take note my friend for john wrote well
TO BELIEVE ON HIM , ON JESUS , ON JESUS , ON JESUS as THE CHRIST , and loved one another .
THE crap pile dung pile feces pile of love i see getting preached by many , has omitted the ONE THING that can save a man
And preaches just lovey do for it matters not what ye beleive , who ye beleive .
That love IS NOT THE LOVE OF GOD . many lip but in no way KNOW JESUS and thus KNOW NOT GOD .
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Silly question and one that Jesus clearly answered:
See John 16:13, and John 17:17
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
What is the difference between "Belief" and "Knowledge"?
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I am sure you have heard this already several times on the thread.
What is written in Scripture is absolute truth! And all that absolute truth is bound in Jesus who is the TRUTH!
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Take a look at the first line of the graphic I posted in #51.
"TRUTH, in essence, is the correspondence between a statement or belief and objective reality".
TRUTH is what IS. We have Truth if what we believe and what (and in whom) we trust in corresponds to the how things REALLY ARE. Your OP boils down to, "Can we know how things REALLY ARE?"
Lambano
Well-Known Member
It the same sense of sadness I get as when I see brothers who, in defending the "Absolute Truth" of the Bible, have to turn their backs on what the Bible actually says.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
The truth comes from God "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little." Which has been revealed in part and is written--only in part, because "the world itself could not contain the books that would be written" if it were all written in full (John 21:25). Even so, each age has its own revelations from God, "here a little there a little." The finish of which was not to come until just before the end and the sounding of the seventh angel (Revelation 10:7).
What did Jesus say?
| "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14;6 |
| "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12 |
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
People quote that "precept upon precept, line upon line" stuff like it was a good thing. I strongly recommend reading the context around that KJV quote from Isaiah 28:10 / 28:13. I also recommend looking it up in NET Bible or NIV. The prophet is saying that God's people hear the word as droning gibberish or baby talk...
Isaiah 28:10 (Hebrew) said:
(tsav latsav, tsav latsav,
qav laqav, qav laqav
z'er sam, z'er sam)
Zzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzz
... which leads to them getting exiled
Isaiah 28:13 NIV said:
So for God's sake (and yours, people), DON'T read the Bible as "Precept upon Precept, Line Upon Line, Here a Little, There a Little".
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