Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

[St. SteVen]

Take a look at the first line of the graphic I posted in #51.

"TRUTH, in essence, is the correspondence between a statement or belief and objective reality".

TRUTH is what IS. We have Truth if what we believe and what (and in whom) we trust in corresponds to the how things REALLY ARE. Your OP boils down to, "Can we know how things REALLY ARE?"

Objective reality requires perception, which can be wrong. We believe an illusion at times.

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[Lambano]

Objective reality requires perception, which can be wrong. We believe an illusion at times.

Do you believe objective reality exists?

 

[ScottA]

People quote that "precept upon precept, line upon line" stuff like it was a good thing. I strongly recommend reading the context around that KJV quote from Isaiah 28:10 / 28:13. I also recommend looking it up in NET Bible or NIV. The prophet is saying that God's people hear the word as droning gibberish or baby talk...



(tsav latsav, tsav latsav,
qav laqav, qav laqav
z'er sam, z'er sam)
Zzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzz

... which leads to them getting exiled



So for God's sake (and yours, people), DON'T read the Bible as "Precept upon Precept, Line Upon Line, Here a Little, There a Little".

Who's method is this, man's or God's?

I tell you--it is God's, regardless of men's doing...rather that the times should be fulfilled in spite of men and their folly.

 

[Lambano]

What is the difference between "Belief" and "Knowledge"?

One is emotional and the other is factual, or vice versa. - LOL

This came up in a discussion with another user (whom I will not name) in the non-Christian discussion forums. In his experience with issues regarding the determination of what objective reality really is and responding to it appropriately in real life, he was criticizing Christians for acting on the basis of "beliefs" rather than "knowledge". But as I understand it, "knowledge" is only that subset of "beliefs" that are arrived at by approved reasons, such as by direct observation and/or proper logical methods.

 

[Lambano]

Who's method is this, man's or God's?

In the verses cited, it was Man's method of hearing the word. Not God's method of conveying the Truth.

 

[Lambano]

Objective reality requires perception, which can be wrong. We believe an illusion at times.

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But is reality knowable, even if not every time?

(I found an even better graphic regarding squirrels and nuts, but I want to stay on good terms with the mods.)

 

[ScottA]

In the verses cited, it was Man's method of hearing the word. Not God's method of conveying the Truth.

So, God spilled all truth from the beginning, and man came along after picking and choosing like a boss? No, that is not at all what the Lord has done.

On the contrary, the light of God's truth came to men evening and morning, and to each according to the Lord's will until the times are fulfilled.

But what and how you have been seeing it all even as written--yes, men have indeed bumbled their/our way through; and while each pillar should have added to our progress in knowledge of the Lord, we failed each and every time only to be rescued again and again.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you believe objective reality exists?

Yes.
But I am not convinced that it can be trusted.
Isn't objective reality based on our perception?
Which could be wrong. ???

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[St. SteVen]

But is reality knowable, even if not every time?

Even a blind nut finds a squirrel now and then. - LOL

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[St. SteVen]

But as I understand it, "knowledge" is only that subset of "beliefs" that are arrived at by approved reasons, such as by direct observation and/or proper logical methods.

That sounds backwards to me for some reason.
I assign an emotional aspect to beliefs. They are not logical or factual. ???

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[MA2444]

Does God reveal the same truth to everyone? The "absolute" truth?

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Sure he does. The truth is the truth. What's true for you is true for me in God's eyes.

You can tell if something is true when you read it or hear it. It sound true to you. It will have a ring of truth within you when you receive it. It's sorta like intuition but it's really the Holy Spirit.

Everyone has the truth inside of them. When you do a oood deed, you know the truth is that you should have done that! OTOH, when you do something wrong, you know it right away through your conscience. Your conscience accuses you. You know that was wrong and you shouldn't have done it! Everyone has this, except for the ones who have scorched their conscience by disobeying it! If you keep disobeying your conscience then at some point you have no conscience, just a black heart.

Even the gays who were born that way. They only lie seeking acceptance, but inside they know the truth.

 

[MA2444]

That sounds backwards to me for some reason.
I assign an emotional aspect to beliefs. They are not logical or factual. ???

But as I understand it, "knowledge" is only that subset of "beliefs" that are arrived at by approved reasons, such as by direct observation and/or proper logical methods.

That wasn't backwards. And God doesn't operate logically or factually, He is above our laws of Physics! It's spiritual.

Instead of assigning an emotional aspect to Belief, I think it might be more proper to assign an action taken in the flesh. That would be walking in your faith. Taking it someplace. Like, into a situation where you stand down and trust the Lord in actions and not just mere words.

Like say a guy pulls a knife on you and wants to rob you. Now you have a 45 on your hip and you can tell by the look of the guy that you could draw in one fluid motion and shoot him easily. But you don't. You think, Lord get me out of this with no shots fired.
That's walking in it! Belief.

 

[St. SteVen]

when you do something wrong, you know it right away through your conscience. Your conscience accuses you.

I don't think our God-given human conscience is proof that we know absolute truth.
That just informs us of right and wrong behavior, and can be seared if we ignore it.

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[St. SteVen]

New topic:

The Best Revenge?

A situation at work gave me an idea for a topic. One of our supervisors doesn't like me due to a bad experience when I was working in her department. I don't work with her anymore, but she has obviously held a grudge. Which is obvious from some of her snarky comments when I do encounter her...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Lambano]

That sounds backwards to me for some reason.
I assign an emotional aspect to beliefs. They are not logical or factual. ???

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[IronMaiden]

Jesus said to Pilate, "... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - John 18:37-38 NIV

Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

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Yes, believers know the Truth. The TRUTH is what’s written in the Bible, and the author of this Book we call the Bible is God. For those of us who believe the Truth, we know (not just suppose) that Scripture never contradicts Scripture. Now, if you don’t know the Scriptures, you’ll never understand Truth when you hear it. What is it that Jesus tells us? He said, “Behold, I have foretold you all things” and He asks in various places, “Have you not read?” Believers are given the Holy Spirit and it’s the Holy Spirit that gives us those eyes to see and those ears to hear all the spiritual truths that are found in the Bible.

 

[Lambano]

That sounds backwards to me for some reason.
I assign an emotional aspect to beliefs. They are not logical or factual. ???

Look at it this way. You KNOW the apple is red. You also BELIEVE the apple is red. You may even be emotional about it because you like the color red (and you like apple pie too, and you're hungry). What is the reason you believe the apple is red? Is it a valid reason? And as far as Truth (absolute or garden-variety) is concerned, is the apple REALLY red?

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes.
But I am not convinced that it can be trusted.
Isn't objective reality based on our perception?
Which could be wrong. ???

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is objective reality based upon what man sees as reality . If so you bet it can often be dead wrong .
Many base reality , truth upon what seems right unto a man . But there is a way that seems right unto man
but the end be death .
Its real simple really . Truth is aboslute and the word of GOD be truth . What God said is TRUTH .
Let GOD be true but every man a liar that ye may be justified in your sayings and might overcome when you are judged .
Men love to turn to the wise philosophies of men and yet the wisdom of man is foolishness .
If objective reality is based upon how man views it , NO WONDER we have this so called relative truth junk
that has gained the ground . My truth is truth , lil johnnies truth is his truth , and so on and so forth .
HERE IS TRUTH . GOD is TRUTH , HIS WORD is TRUTH , HIS SPIRIT is TRUTH , His words are TRUTH .
the sooner we become as wee little children and simply TRUST IN HIM and in HIS words , far far better off would many have been .
Time to trust , as do a child , time to beleive as does a child IN GOD , IN HIS CHRIST
and How does one know they are trusting in HIM , IN HIS CHRIST ,
a fat hint , If ya jesus , ya spirit is contradicting HIS WORDS , well it aint HE YA trusting in at all . Its men who twist things

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, believers know the Truth. The TRUTH is what’s written in the Bible, and the author of this Book we call the Bible is God. For those of us who believe the Truth, we know (not just suppose) that Scripture never contradicts Scripture. Now, if you don’t know the Scriptures, you’ll never understand Truth when you hear it. What is it that Jesus tells us? He said, “Behold, I have foretold you all things” and He asks in various places, “Have you not read?” Believers are given the Holy Spirit and it’s the Holy Spirit that gives us those eyes to see and those ears to hear all the spiritual truths that are found in the Bible.

 

[St. SteVen]

For those of us who believe the Truth, we know (not just suppose) that Scripture never contradicts Scripture.

Sorry, that is not the truth.
Can we know ABSOLUTE truth?

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