Why does everyone seem to need to come up with their own belief and doctrinal formula?

[ScottA]

Not so much the metaphysics but the epistemology that keeps our sanity.

When our metaphysics is wrong, that is our opportunity to reconcile with cognitive dissonance.

Getting back to the need for a world view, it explains the human need all over the world, across every culture, for myths, legends and folklore. Our identity is tied to our story.

Some stories are true.

 

[ScottA]

So I am aware that the world is not flat with a dome over it. I’m asking how do you solve those
Biblical claims with the questions I asked.

That is God's business, which is a matter of revelation over times.

 

[ScottA]

Not many christians read and pray thru the scriptures.

Most just listen to their pastors who are promoted thru seminary which comes from denominational adherences.

Add to this the spiritual disease of 'respect of persons' and you have man centered beliefs which cause conflict.

Question: Are we part of the problem or part of the solution that God outlined in the Scriptures???

God made a Way for us = IF we choose to follow

As wheat among tares, I suppose we are both part of the problem and the solution. Thank God that He is working all things together for good for those who love Him according to His purpose.

 

[Wrangler]

Some stories are true.

The psychological importance of having a story to explain the world in which we live does not depend on it being true.

Look at kids. They ask questions about the world they see and often accept whatever story a trusted adult tells them that explains what they observe. The belief in Santa shows this.

Look at Adam and Eve. The believed the story the serpent told them. @Aunty Jane has pointed out many times that the first lie was that we will not die in defying God. Yet, they believed the story. Sure, people are quick to explain their acceptance of this story being believed due to sin. However, the renown clinical psychologist, Jordan Peterson literally wrote a book on the psychology of the event.

What's common between kids and Adam and Eve before the fall is the lack of awareness, lack of knowledge of Good and Evil. It takes curiosity to transcend our gullible state, where we accepted a story as true for important psychological reasons. And by the same token, one experiences apathy if not antagonism if one tries to educate someone who lacks such curiosity, keeping their mind closed to what is true, yes?

A third example is how so many people continue to believe the government no matter how many times they lie. Not included in the list below is the fraud of manmade global warming, the 2020 election being stolen, Biden's dementia and most recently, drones over military bases and UFO's. This explains Socrates quip that the unexamined life is not worth living.

 

[Lambano]

What does that scripture mean?

2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Are you asking for my private interpretation of it?

 

[Skovand]

Verse please?

Instead of me showing you verse I suggest you take a few weeks and do what I did.

First google it. Tons of blogs already cover this. You’ll find a few verses. The first thing you are going to do is say…… oh it’s just a figure of speech. We say “sunrise and sunset” also and don’t mean it literally. But to mean something figuratively first means that you don’t think it’s literally true. So then you’ll have to dig a little deeper and see what did ancient Jewish people think about the cosmos, earth and so on. If you are capable of doing that, and reading these texts you’ll quickly realize they did not think of the world like you do. When you read “god created the earth” the image in your modern mind is of a satellite image or earth. But they did not have that image 2,000 years ago and definitely did not have that image 3500 years ago. So you’ll have to do some historical and literary digging to see what did they believe.

Then you can decide if those verses are literal or figurative. Remember Copernicus in the 1500s is the man who begin to really popularize the idea of earth rotating around the sun. It was not until mid 1600s though that it became widely accepted. Now we seen some brilliant minds like Aristarchus in 200bc put forth a heliocentric argument but it has always been overwhelmingly a sort of geocentric view that dominated not only the common mind but also the educated minds of history until a few hundred years ago.

So find the verses.
Find the historical consensus from 3500-500 years ago and see what was predominantly held as true by the masses.
Then look at the verses again.

 

[MatthewG]

The question I have is do I have to trust man or trust God in faith? Man can only do so much; but God much greater things. I do trust the Bible. Most don’t really read it though from what I gather. My encouragement would be to read the Bible we have today. But if you don’t want to, that’s okay. Many people can read, some can’t due to having issues with reading or blindness.

The Bible is able to help renew our mind and increase our hope and trust in God. It’s definitely not something to use as a weapon; in the end though all that will matter is faith and love.

 

[MatthewG]

It definitely talks about our natural ways vs the spiritual ways. There are two types of wisdom. Earthly and heavenly.

“If you are wise and understand God’s ways, prove it by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you are bitterly jealous and there is selfish ambition in your heart, don’t cover up the truth with boasting and lying. For jealousy and selfishness are not God’s kind of wisdom. Such things are earthly, unspiritual, and demonic. For wherever there is jealousy and selfish ambition, there you will find disorder and evil of every kind. But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and the fruit of good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere. And those who are peacemakers will plant seeds of peace and reap a harvest of righteousness.”
‭‭James‬ ‭3‬:‭13‬-‭18‬ ‭NLT‬‬

James 3:13-18 If you are wise and understand God’s ways, prove it by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you are bitterly jealous and there is selfish ambitio | New Living Translation (NLT) | Do

If you are wise and understand God’s ways, prove it by living an honorable life, doing good works with the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you are bitterly jealous and there is selfish ambitio

bible.com

Jesus speaks of what’s in our hearts.

“And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7‬:‭20‬-‭23‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Mark 7:20-23 And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, | New Living Translation (NLT) | Dow

And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit,

bible.com

Jesus speaking on his disciples not keeping up for even an hour.

“Then he returned to the disciples and found them asleep. He said to Peter, “Couldn’t you watch with me even one hour? Keep watch and pray, so that you will not give in to temptation. For the spirit is willing, but the body is weak!” Then Jesus left them a second time and prayed, “My Father! If this cup cannot be taken away unless I drink it, your will be done.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26‬:‭40‬-‭42‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Matthew 26:40-42 Then he returned to the disciples and found them asleep. He said to Peter, “Couldn’t you watch with me even one hour? Keep watch and pray, so that you will not give in to temptation. For the spirit is | New Living Translation (NLT) |

Then he returned to the disciples and found them asleep. He said to Peter, “Couldn’t you watch with me even one hour? Keep watch and pray, so that you will not give in to temptation. For the spirit is

bible.com

 

[Lambano]

What does that scripture mean?

2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

"Private Interpretation" is the buzzword some of our Catholic brothers and sisters (yes, I do regard them as my brothers and sisters in Christ, though many would not reciprocate that status back to me) have used to criticize the Protestant practice of allowing the laity to interpret scripture. Interpreting God's Word (and that has a broader scope than just "prophesy") is much too important a job to let every Tom, Dick, and Harry do it. 40,000 different denominations and nasty internet forum debates and "everyone coming up with their own beliefs and doctrine" is the natural and logical consequence of this practice. It is a systemic problem with its historical roots in the Protestant Reformation.

I believe that is the "Official" Catholic interpretation of the Second Pete scripture. I've heard the "private interpretation" buzzword during interdenominational Bible discussions going all the way back to my Catholic college roomie.

Did you see this thread? (And pick up on the "solo" instead of "sola"?)

The Problems with Solo Scriptura

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
What does that scripture mean?

2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Are you asking for my private interpretation of it?

Yes. But it's not a prophecy of scripture, so no worries. - LOL

I don't know why verse 20 is there. ???
Of course prophecy is not of private interpretation.
That goes without saying. The Prophet is a conduit.
God speaks through them. Maybe that's the point.
(which doesn't need to be made)

[

 

[Lambano]

Yes. But it's not a prophecy of scripture, so no worries. - LOL

"Prophecy" as a category is God conveying to His people what He want them to hear. So, if you take a high view of Scripture, it all falls into that category.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
What does that scripture mean?

2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

"Private Interpretation" is the buzzword some of our Catholic brothers and sisters (yes, I do regard them as my brothers and sisters in Christ, though many would not reciprocate that status back to me) have used to criticize the Protestant practice of allowing the laity to interpret scripture. Interpreting God's Word (and that has a broader scope than just "prophesy") is much too important a job to let every Tom, Dick, and Harry do it. 40,000 different denominations and nasty internet forum debates and "everyone coming up with their own beliefs and doctrine" is the natural and logical consequence of this practice. It is a systemic problem with its historical roots in the Protestant Reformation.

Thanks for your response.
Interesting that they landed on that phrase "private interpretation" and ignored what it referred to. ("prophecy of the scripture")
Preferring to apply it to the entirety of scripture. In order to defend their practice of controlling the interpretation.

I believe that is the "Official" Catholic interpretation of the Second Pete scripture. I've heard the "private interpretation" buzzword during interdenominational Bible discussions going all the way back to my Catholic college roomie.

Good point.

Did you see this thread? (And pick up on the "solo" instead of "sola"?)

The Problems of Solo Scriptura (from Keith Matthison)

LOL
I'll check it out.


[

 

[St. SteVen]

"Prophecy" as a category is God conveying to His people what He want them to hear. So, if you take a high view of Scripture, it all falls into that category.

That broad definition would support the practice of institutionally controlling biblical interpretation.

That seems like a very watered down definition of literary prophecy to me.
I reserve the term prophecy to be a direct message (word-for-word) from God.
Not even the whole of an OT Prophet's book would be prophecy to me.
Only the messages delivered from God through the Prophet to the hearer.

2 Peter 1:21 KJV
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

[

 

[Lambano]

I don't know why verse 20 is there. ???

Take a look at the immediately preceding verses:

For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such a declaration as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory: “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well pleased”—and we ourselves heard this declaration made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. And so we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. (2 Peter 1:16-19)

In verse 20-21, Pete is claiming Prophet status, and saying, "Hey, we prophets don't make this stuff up ourselves".

But, we've already shown in your other thread that pulling verses out of context is a valid hermeneutic, so the Magisterium is justified in interpreting verse 20 the way they do.

 

[Lambano]

That broad definition would support the practice of institutionally controlling biblical interpretation.

Yeah, how about that? But that's a logical consequence of "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

 

[Lambano]

That seems like a very watered down definition of literary prophecy to me.

Not watered-down; expanded. Jesus often broadened the scope of scripture. See His interpretation of adultery and murder in "Mount, Sermon on". But once again, it logically follows "All scripture is God-breathed"

Late edit: In retrospect, Peter himself broadens the definition of "prophecy" here by applying it to his description of the events on the Mount of Transfiguration.

 

[St. SteVen]

But, we've already shown in your other thread that pulling verses out of context is a valid hermeneutic, so the Magisterium is justified in interpreting verse 20 the way they do.

Thanks for your response in three posts.

What bothers me is the institutional conclusion that the layman, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, is incapable of hearing from God while privately reading the scriptures. If that's true, what would be the point of reading the Bible?

And of course, there are abuses on both sides of the issue.
On one side the institutional church has a strangle hold on "interpretation". Thus discouraging, or even outlawing other views.
On the other side we have wackos creating their own cult religions. Thus opening the floodgates to error.

I would like to think that personal Bible study is a fruitful practice. And that God is capable of speaking to me without the filter of the institutional church.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

But, we've already shown in your other thread that pulling verses out of context is a valid hermeneutic, so the Magisterium is justified in interpreting verse 20 the way they do.

Interesting to see you write that. I had thrown that out as a possibility. Seems to have resonated on some level.

Does that create a bit of a conundrum? Prophecy being of no "private interpretation", when biblical writers pull something out-of-context to support their point as if the quote/misquote was prophetic?

[

 

[Lambano]

On the other side we have wackos creating their own cult religions. Thus opening the floodgates to error.

Isn't it great that this forum gives us wackos a platform where we can be heard?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Lambano,

If that is the case concerning no private interpretation. The conclusion to me is that Jesus was truly coming soon, as stated in the Revelation. I believe that what Yahavah intended to do, came to fruition in the day and age it was written. How could it have not been? Therefore we do live in the new Heaven and new earth under the administration of Yeshua. Which then we can see all sins have been paid for on behalf of Yeshua for all people today. And that Yahavah calls to all people every day of their life. However even still there are some who travel the road less traveled the narrow and difficult strait, and others choose the broad way. Only one of them leads to life. Yeshua stated that “anyone who loses their life for my name sake will keep it.” That’s why I trust in Him, and he helps me in and through all my weakness of my flesh by producing spiritual and heavenly ways which can only come by and through the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ through me, and I take no credit for those means. It’s all because of his righteousness which you shared “all scripture which leads which is the leading to training in righteous,” of whom? Yeshuas’.