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ProDeo

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John 1:1 - JW translation
In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.

In all other translations -
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

That's pretty fundamental, softly speaking.
 
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Stumpmaster

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The Rock

Believers in the personal preexistence of Christ often appeal to the words of the apostle Paul in I Cor 10:4 where he says of the Israelites in the wilderness, that they all drank "the same spiritual drink for they drank of that spiritual rock that followed them; and that rock was Christ." It is argued from this that Christ Himself personally accompanied the people of Israel as they journeyed through the wilderness to the promised land. The verse is often tied in with several Old Testament texts which describe Yahweh as a Rock (Deut 32:4; Ps 18:2,31).

Since Yahweh is the rock, and Christ is also the rock who accompanied Israel, Christ must therefore be Yahweh, it is believed. This interpretation, common though it is, suffers from a number of serious defects. The first of these concerns the meaning of the term "Christ". Too often we use it simply as a proper name for Jesus as if it were His surname. "Christos" is the Greek form of the Hebrew word "Messiah", meaning "the anointed one". It was a title given to the Kings of Israel. David was a "messiah" and was a type, or forerunner, of the one who would deliver the people of Israel and establish the Kingdom of God. the coming of the Messiah is a common theme of OT prophecy. He was to be the "seed of Abraham" Gen 3:15; Gal 3:8,16, "the seed of Judah" Gen49:10; I Chron. 5:2, and the "seed of David" II Sam &:12~14; Isa 11:1,10;Rom.1:3;II Tim2:8. "Seed" in all these scriptures means "descendant" This points to the fact that the Messiah was prophesied to arise from the human race.

Nothing in the OT suggests that the promised seed was already in existence in another form. For Paul to have taught that the Messiah was personally present with Israel would have been a staggering contradiction of the words of the prophets. The second major objection to this theory is the fact that God used angels to minister to Israel.

The NT declares in three places that the law was given by angels, Acts7:38,53, Gal 3:9 & Heb2:2. In each of these passages the angelic giving of the Law forms an important part of the debate. Study each in its context with care and you will see that the common theme is the superiority of the Gospel to the Law. The Law was given only by angels but the Gospel was brought by the Son of God and is therefore vastly superior to it. Christ could not have had any part, therefore, either in giving the Law to Israel, or in ministering to the Israelites in the wilderness. Since the Messiah could not have been present personally in the wilderness, Paul's statement must mean that the Rock represented or typified Christ in some way. It is not uncommon for Scripture to use the verb "to be" in a representational sense. Jesus said "I am the Door" Jn 10:7, "I am the true Vine" Jn 15:1. In the instution of the Lord's supper he said that the bread "is my body" and the cup "is my blood" I Cor11:24,25, clearly meant that they symbolized his broken body and shed blood.

This interpretation is strengthened by a close study of the whole passage from verse 1 to verse 11 of 1 Corinthians 10. Twice Paul states that the experiences of Israel were examples for us (vv.6,11). the Greek word used here actually means "types". The passing of the Israelites through the cloud and through the Red Sea was a type of Christian baptism. They were baptized "into Moses" (v. 2, NASB) as we are baptized "into Christ" (Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:27). Verses 3 and 4 continue the typological parallel by referring to the incidents of the giving of the manna in Exodus 16, and the incidents at Rephidim and Kadesh when God miraculously supplied water out of a rock (Ex. 17:1-7; Num. 20: 1-13). The "spiritual" food mentioned in verse 3 is clearly the manna miraculously given daily to Israel over a period of 40 years. The giving of the manna is recorded in Exodus 16 and forms the background to John 6.

There are two incidents involving a rock recorded during the wilderness wanderings of the Israelites and it is important to notice the difference between them. The first incident occurred just after the miraculous giving of the manna. Israel arrived at Rephidim (Ex. 17:1) and immediately began to complain about lack of water, whereupon God commanded Moses to strike the rock. Water gushed out and the people's thirst was satisfied. The striking of the rock typifies the fact that Christ our Rock was smitten for us. The miraculous giving of the water typifies the giving of the Holy Spirit, the water of Life (John 7:37-39).

The second incident occurred toward the end of the wandering in the wilderness. Again, Israel complained for lack of water and again God provided for their needs. This time, however, he clearly instructed Moses to speak to the rock, but in his anger Moses disobeyed and struck the rock twice (Num. 20: 1-12). In smiting the rock instead of speaking to it Moses was guilty of destroying the type. The rock in Exodus 17 typified Christ in the flesh, smitten to give to us the water of life while the rock in Numbers 20 typified Christ our High Priest, not to be smitten twice (cp. Heb. 6:6), but only to be spoken to to supply the water of life.

The first incident occurred at the beginning of the wanderings, the second at the end; both incidents thus form a parable of Christ's continuous presence with his people during their "wilderness wanderings." The two incidents we have looked at took place in entirely different locations and there is a different Hebrew word for "rock" used in each place. In Exodus 17 the word is tsur and in Numbers 20 it is sela.

So what does Paul mean when he states that "they drank of that spiritual rock which followed them"? Obviously, a literal rock did not accompany Israel through the wilderness and many feel that this is proof that Christ himself went with them. The answer is that Paul is using the language of Christian experience and reading it back into the Old Testament type. This is shown clearly by his reference to baptism in verses 1 and 2. The Israelites were not literally "baptized". In fact, we are told that the water did not come near them; they walked dryshod through the Red Sea. But their experience is a close enough parallel for Paul to say they were baptized "into Moses". Likewise the rock did not literally follow them. It was simply a type of Christ accompanying us through life.

Well, this is about the best I can do to help you understand this topic. I hope it helps.
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Land Of Midian Split Rock Of Moses Tours
 

ProDeo

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Paul, speaking for all the apostles said….at 1 Cor 8:5-6…
”For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; AND there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”
For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist,
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Slightly different translation, but did you notice the listed powers (and creation in particular) of the Father are the same of the Son?

Reminds me of -
Gen 1:26 - Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

We know Christ existed before Creation.
 
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Aunty Jane

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For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist,
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Slightly different translation, but did you notice the listed powers (and creation in particular) of the Father are the same of the Son?
Did you notice the difference though?
God is the the one “FROM WHOM“ are all things….whereas The one Lord Jesus Christ is the one “THROUGH WHOM are all things….so not the same at all.
If I do something “through” someone else, but I provide the materials and the plans….who is the end result credited to? The architect who supplied all the instructions and ordered the needed materials to his exact specifications….or the builder who just followed the architects plans and specifications?
There is no doubt that the son and the Father worked closely in creation, but not once is Christ called the Creator….that designation is for Yahweh only.

Proverbs 8: 22-31 is said to be “wisdom personified” but it’s about that very creation, where the “master workman” at the Father’s side was telling us all about how it was done…and how he assisted his Father in creation.
Reminds me of -
Gen 1:26 - Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
Yes it does, but not in the way you imagine.

Col 1:15-17 fills us in I believe….
“ He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of ALL creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.“ (ESV)

Again…”THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM”…..what an odd thing for God to say about his other self….?
Creation was God’s gift to his son…..allowing him to participate in the process…..and what did he find delight in?…”the sons of men”. (Prov 8:31)
We know Christ existed before Creation.
We sure do…..but who was he before creation? That is the question. No scripture says he was God.
 
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TheHC

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In all other translations -
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
“In all other translations”?

No, actually….

▪ 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.

▪ 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)

▪ 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)

▪ 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)

▪ 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)

▪ 1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible

▪ 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)

▪ 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)

▪ 1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)

▪ 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago

▪ 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.

▪ 1956: "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation[15]

▪ 1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed (J. L. Tomanec, 1958)

▪ 1966, 2001: "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible

▪ 1970, 1989: "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible

▪ 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany

▪ 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);

▪ 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin.

(In the following paragraph, bold type, italics, and underlining are mine.)

Some use the term "divine." [Divine simply means “of God”, or “from God”; it doesn’t mean God](1) Trinitarian Moffatt's highly acclaimed New Translation of the Bible and (2) trinitarian Smith-Goodspeed's An American Translation both say that the Word "was divine." The translations by (3) Boehmer, (4) Stage, and (5) Menge all say the Word was "of divine being." (6) Trinitarian & highly acclaimed scholar John J. McKenzie, S. J., writes in his Dictionary of the Bible: "Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated `the word was with the God (equals the Father), and the word was a divine being.'" - p. 317, Macmillan Publishing Co., Inc., 1965, published with Catholic Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.


If you’ll please note, many of these translations were written before Jehovah’s Witnesses were founded.
Take care, my cousin.
 
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Aunty Jane

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John 1:1 - JW translation
In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.

In all other translations -
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

That's pretty fundamental, softly speaking.
But in most (not all) of those other translations, it isn’t what John 1:1 says in Greek…

I have repeated this many times…if the divine name had been retained by the Jews, the later doctrine of the trinity could never have taken root in Christianity…

If the English translators were not swayed by their own bias, John 1:1 would read….
”In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Yahweh and the Word was divine.”
This is how the Greeks would have translated it…..because that is how it was originally written.
Without the divine name, all the Greek language had to offer was “ho theos” (THE God) The only God without a name.

Can we look at that verse and ask, “what “beginning“ did an eternal God have?
The word “eternal” means without beginning, so what “beginning” is this?
In Greek it says that the Word was “WITH HO THEOS” who is Yahweh….and that “the Word was THEOS”…not “ho theos”. It was the Word who “became flesh”, not “ho theos”.

Its right there in plain sight, but those blinded by Christendom’s counterfeit “Christianity” will not see it….and God will not correct them.
 
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Ritajanice

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For the attention of @amigo de christo ..who does this all over the forum...you best take note Sir..in the Name Of Jesus!...Amen!

As the Apostle Paul said to Timothy, “For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control” (2 Timothy 1:7). The gospel is not compatible with fearmongering, and so Christians ought to resist it.

That is why I now have you on permanent ignore, along with those who reinforce some of your posts of fear mongering....which you have posted to me..,you desperately need to grow in spiritual maturity imo...you are stunted in that area I’m afraid...you need to know God’s Love in your spirit/ heart.....

You also need to do more of this...whilst you are reading the penned word..the penned word is not the Living Spirit Of God...

John 1:1
Audio Crossref Comment Greek
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Berean Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.




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....this is my daily prayer for you and a few of your associates.

9b20515b5920c47fb60277cb5a775981.jpg
 
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Ritajanice

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Is there anywhere in the Bible where it says God was IN the SON?


▪ 1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible


The Gospel was preached through the Son...God used the human Jesus to preach who he was etc...because he could not come down as he was/ is...far to almighty for that...the JWS imo, have it spot on...regarding the Son Of God.

He was so in tune with his Father, it’s mind blowing, he loved his Father that much, that he gave up his own life , so that we can all be reunited back to God...who is our Spirit Father...everyone of our spirits came from God...our natural bodies came from our father’s sperm who impregnated our mothers egg, then started growing in her womb.
 
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RedFan

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But in most (not all) of those other translations, it isn’t what John 1:1 says in Greek…

I have repeated this many times…if the divine name had been retained by the Jews, the later doctrine of the trinity could never have taken root in Christianity…

If the English translators were not swayed by their own bias, John 1:1 would read….
”In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Yahweh and the Word was divine.”
This is how the Greeks would have translated it…..because that is how it was originally written.
Without the divine name, all the Greek language had to offer was “ho theos” (THE God) The only God without a name.

Can we look at that verse and ask, “what “beginning“ did an eternal God have?
The word “eternal” means without beginning, so what “beginning” is this?
In Greek it says that the Word was “WITH HO THEOS” who is Yahweh….and that “the Word was THEOS”…not “ho theos”. It was the Word who “became flesh”, not “ho theos”.

Its right there in plain sight, but those blinded by Christendom’s counterfeit “Christianity” will not see it….and God will not correct them.
You certainly have repeated it many times, Aunty. Is there any chance we can stop all the haggling over John 1:1, and just all concede that the Greek is inconclusive, i.e., it might be translated either as “the Word was God” or “the Word was a god” with equal facility?
 

IronMaiden

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Since you seem fond of posting scripture with no comment, can we have a look at what it means to “BELIEVE”?
James 2:19 gives us some perspective….
”You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder”.
So what are we to make of that….what do the demons “believe” that makes them “shudder”?
They know the truth, and they have been hiding it from so called “ChristIans” for a very long time in the teachings of the churches……the truth about who Yahweh is….who Jesus is….the role of the Holy Spirit…..and the truth about life and death on this planet. Fed to generations for centuries so that like sheep to the slaughter, they have left the path of truth completely….all that is left is a vague shadow of what once was.

The demons “believe” that there is one God who does not exist in three different personalities…they know that God’s power, his Holy Spirit could snuff them out like a candle, yet still they mock him….and they even petitioned the son when on earth not to make them go away into the abyss that they know is waiting for them…..they have much to “shudder” about.

What about you? What does it mean for you to “believe” in Jesus Christ? Is it mere mental acknowledgment? Or something much deeper?

If someone met you for the first time, would they detect something about you that was different to the world in general?
At this time of year for example….are you running with the crowd, pretending that Christmas is a happy family time, like in the movies?…with everyone getting and giving presents that are left under a decorated Christmas tree, with magical lighting, by a mythical character that doesn’t even exist…..but the lies about him are reinforced to children when they see him in the shopping mall and have their photo taken with him….or to see the nativity scenes with them all at the stable…when they were never actually there….is it just harmless deception?

What about the star on top of the Christmas tree? Does it have pride of place as the means of guiding the “three wise men” to worship Jesus at the stable, and to bring him gifts?
Who were these so called “wise men”? And who sent them to a wicked king who was determined to kill the new “king of the Jews” that they had come to honor?

Please examine the customs that are followed at this time of year in Christendom and tell me where they originated and then read 2 Cor 6:14-18 and see if God has a problem with what the world does at this time of year?

What are we to “BELIEVE”….? Or rather WHO are we to believe?…..someone who tells us an inconvenient truth…..or someone who justifies the pretty lies?
Too many questions. Ask me one or two at a time, please. You seem un-merry; I’ll try to help you if I can.
 
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ProDeo

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But in most (not all) of those other translations, it isn’t what John 1:1 says in Greek…

I have repeated this many times…if the divine name had been retained by the Jews, the later doctrine of the trinity could never have taken root in Christianity…

If the English translators were not swayed by their own bias, John 1:1 would read….
”In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Yahweh and the Word was divine.”
This is how the Greeks would have translated it…..because that is how it was originally written.
Without the divine name, all the Greek language had to offer was “ho theos” (THE God) The only God without a name.

Can we look at that verse and ask, “what “beginning“ did an eternal God have?
The word “eternal” means without beginning, so what “beginning” is this?
In Greek it says that the Word was “WITH HO THEOS” who is Yahweh….and that “the Word was THEOS”…not “ho theos”. It was the Word who “became flesh”, not “ho theos”.

Its right there in plain sight, but those blinded by Christendom’s counterfeit “Christianity” will not see it….and God will not correct them.
This is the Greek -

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God Θεόν (Theon), and the Word was God Θεόν (Theon)

Same word used for God twice, there is no "was a god" as in your Bible.

But it's better we ask some knowledgeable here like @Johann or @marks for a confirmation.

Besides, do you really think all the other translators have it wrong and you as only one have it right?
 
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RedFan

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This is the Greek -

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God Θεόν (Theon), and the Word was God Θεόν (Theon)

Same word used for God twice, there is no "was a god" as in your Bible.

But it's better we ask some knowledgeable here like @Johann or @marks for a confirmation.

Besides, do you really think all the other translators have it wrong and you as only one have it right?
Methinks you have missed Aunty's point on the use of the definite article before theon. I don't agree with her, but I follow her argument. I think you have missed that argument.
 
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Ritajanice

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Do you not know that one needs Spirit knowledge to know God...not human intellectual knowledge.

No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Living Holy Spirit....I certainly don’t need to know who God is by reading all this intellectual nonsense of who he is....he made himself known to my spirit via His Spirit.by = supernatural divine heart revelation.,,what’s the point of having intellectual knowledge of God...if you don’t know him in YOUR SPIRIT...answer me that?

God is a Almighty Spirit...you must be Born Again to communicate with him....there is no other way...

We are spirit children....not earthly children?

Are we blind or don’t understand the words...You Must Be Born Again...get it..Born Again!...WHY?
 
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ProDeo

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Methinks you have missed Aunty's point on the use of the definite article before theon. I don't agree with her, but I follow her argument. I think you have missed that argument.
Okay, thank you, saw your other post, curious to learn.
 

Taken

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1 Thess 4:13-18 - The Resurrected and the Raptured are One Group = they are not separate except for the Resurrection being FIRST
The Resurrection and Rapture occur at the same time = at His Coming

Brother, read the Genesis account of Noah and the flood BUT make sure you start with Enoch and then pay carefull attention to
when Noah is told to leave the Ark.

Keeping in mind what Jesus said of His Return being as in the days of Noah

Will go into these subjects deeper…of
* The Lord Raising (Rapture) When, whom, why.
* God raising (The First Resurrection)When, whom, why.
* Noah’s raising, when, how, why…


But not now…busy with urgent major repairs, animals, holiday and family.

God Bless you,
Taken
 
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A Freeman

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Firstly, I do not see Christ as an immortal being from his creation up until his birth as a human.
And yet that is exactly what Christ (Prince Michael), Gabriel and all of the rest of the angels of heaven are: immortal spiritual-Beings made (created) in God's Image.

God is a Spiritual-Being (John 4:24) and so are ALL of the many Sons of God. God is NOT a human, nor the son of a human (Num. 23:19), nor does God procreate human children (nor is there any "queen of heaven" (Jer. 44:17-25).

This is why Prince Michael/Christ stated through the mouth of Jesus that He is NOT OF THIS WORLD and has been around SINCE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS (John 17:5).

Jesus very obviously was of this world, as he was born in this world (in Bethlehem of Judaea), lived in this world, died in this world (at Calvary/Golgotha in Jerusalem), and was physically resurrected in this world by Father.

When Christ incarnated Jesus (John 1:14), the two became the human+Being we refer to as Jesus+Christ.

He has always been God’s “firstborn” from “the beginning”….”before all things”….(Col 1:15-17)
Of course. Prince Michael is literally God's Firstborn/First-created Son and was the very first thing God made; the beginning of the creation of God (Rev. 3:14). Everything and everyone else was created by God with and THROUGH Prince Michael/Christ (Heb. 1:1-9), teaching Christ everything in the process (John 5:19-20). That's why Prince Michael has the title of Christ (the Anointed One) and is the Great Prince/heir to the Throne.

God as an eternal being, had no beginning, but his son did. (Rev 3:14)
Agreed. ALL of the Sons of God had a beginning to their immortal lives, all of which are Spiritual-Beings/Souls/Angels (NOT humans).

Jesus the man was 100% human, or he could not have redeemed mankind with the sacrifice of his sinless life.
Agreed. And it is through Christ's Example of achieving perfect control over the "self" (the human with its ego and its selfish will) that we were shown The Way each of us must be to be able to leave this place and go home, to heaven.

These two are one and the same person but in different forms,
While the two became one when Christ incarnated Jesus (John 1:14), one is spirit and the other is flesh. Prince Michael/Christ is an immortal spiritual-Being of Light Who is NOT of this world, and the other (Jesus) was a mortal, flesh and blood human, who was of this world.

And as Christ said through the mouth of Jesus, unless one is reborn as their true SPIRITUAL self (from above), it's impossible to understand who and what we really are (spiritual-Beings temporarily incarnated/incarcerated inside of the human body we see in the mirror), or to "see" the Kingdom of God, much less enter it (John 3:3-7). The Kingdom is within you and without you (Luke 17:21; Thom. 1:6).

(as it says in Phil 2:5,he was “in God’s form” and we know that God is a spirit).
Speaking of Prince Michael/Christ, Who likewise is a Spirit (Spiritual-Being). The Hebrew name Michael literally means "Who is LIKE God?"

His transformation was facilitated by God for the role that his son would play as redeemer in the outworking of his purpose…..
Agreed. Prince Michael/Christ was incarnated inside Jesus to teach us The Way each of us need to be -- in thought word and in deed/action -- to be able to shed these loathsome human bodies and go home, to heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood CANNOT inherit The Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

the son was not granted immortality until his return to heaven…
This notion finds zero Scriptural support.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

this was his Father’s reward for his faithful obedience.
Christ's immortality began at His Creation (Rev. 1:8). Father's reward is to give Christ the throne of Israel (Ezek. 21:25-27; Luke 1:31-33), so that Christ may reign over and with the believing remnant that keep God's Law/Commandments and the testimony of Christ-Jesus (Rev. 12:17).

Those chosen by God for a role in heaven are also granted immortal life in heaven with their Lord Jesus, as Kings and priests in God’s Kingdom. (Rev 20:6)
And are among the "Elect", i.e. the 144,000 who are to be redeemed from the Earth (Rev. 7:4-9; Rev. 14:1-4).
 

A Freeman

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continued...
Do you know what God’s first purpose was for the human race….
Yes. We were cast down to this prison-planet reform school for the criminally-insane because of our treasonous actions in the war (Rev. 12:7-9), to be taught how to be good, like the rest of the angels of heaven (Gen. 1:26). Being confined inside one of these human cages/prison cells is to help teach us self-control by learning to overcome all of its selfish urges (see: Matt. 10:38; Matt. 16:24-26; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23; Luke 14:26-27; Thomas 6:9; Gal. 2:20; and Rev. 2:7; 2:11; 2:17; 2:26-28; 3:5; 3:12; 3:21; 21:7).

and how we lost it…..and how Christ came to get it back for us? How does Christ’s death gain us everlasting life….and how is everlasting life different from immortality? It is important to know the difference….
Yes, it is critically important to be able to differentiate between the spirit/soul and the flesh/human. It was Jesus that died, NOT Christ (Matt. 10:28). That is why Christ was NOT afraid of the death of the human body of Jesus that Christ incarnated, even throughout the crucifixion.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell-fire.

Not sure what translation you are using there, but I detect a major error in verse 44.
It should read, as it does in Hebrew, “Yahweh said to my Lord”…..There is no “I Am”….and never was.
God’s name was revealed to Israel in a way that his servants had never experienced before…..
Here it is from the Jewish Tanakh…

Exodus 3:13-15….
13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?"יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation.טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:

You can see that the meaning of God’s name is “I will be what I will be”….The Israelites already knew who their God was, so, it makes no sense to tell them that he existed…..but now they would know him in a very different way…he would “be” whatever he needed to be in order to fulfill his purpose in connection with them…and that was to produce their Messiah.
“The LORD God” is Yahweh as we can see in the Hebrew text….and his miracles would free them from slavery in Egypt….becoming their deliverer.
YHWH is Hebrew and in English means "I AM". God is the self-existent ONE, Who has no beginning nor any end. So there is no error in the translation; only an error in understanding it. A human can NEVER understand anything spiritual, because it lacks the facility of spiritual sight (hence the example of the pharisees/politicians' inability to answer the simple question about Who Christ really is, as recorded in Matthew 22:41-46).

God exists (present tense) and always will; He never said He "existed" (past tense), which is nonsensical, as you said.

And yes God sent His Christ (Prince Michael) at that time too, to speak with Moses and to lead Moses and the Israelites through the wilderness of sin, to the Promised Land, foreshadowing the imminent second exodus.

Exodus 23:20-23
23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in The Way (ch. 18:20; Deut. 11:28; 31:29; John 14:6), and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice (Mark 9:7), provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for My name [is] in him.
23:22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
23:23 For Mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
 
J

Johann

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This is the Greek -

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God Θεόν (Theon), and the Word was God Θεόν (Theon)

Same word used for God twice, there is no "was a god" as in your Bible.

But it's better we ask some knowledgeable here like @Johann or @marks for a confirmation.

Besides, do you really think all the other translators have it wrong and you as only one have it right?
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1: Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος (En archē ēn ho Logos)
Morphology:

Ἐν (en): Preposition in the dative case, meaning "in."

ἀρχῇ (archē): Noun in the dative singular, meaning "beginning."

ἦν (ēn): Imperfect active indicative of the verb eimi ("to be"), third-person singular, indicating continuous existence.

ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article (ho) and noun (Logos), nominative singular, meaning "the Word."
Syntax:

Prepositional phrase (ἐν ἀρχῇ) establishes the temporal setting ("in the beginning").

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) follows the verb (ἦν), which expresses ongoing existence, indicating that the Word existed timelessly and continuously.

Clause 2: καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν (kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon)

Morphology:

καὶ (kai): Coordinating conjunction, meaning "and."

ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article and noun, nominative singular, as above.

ἦν (ēn): Same verb as in Clause 1, indicating continuous existence.

πρὸς (pros): Preposition with the accusative, meaning "toward" or "with," implying relational proximity.

τὸν Θεόν (ton Theon): Article (ton) and noun (Theon), accusative singular, meaning "the God," referring to the Father.
Syntax:

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) is in nominative case, linked to the verb (ἦν).

Prepositional phrase (πρὸς τὸν Θεόν) emphasizes relationship, not merely spatial proximity but intimate communion or face-to-face relationship.

Clause 3: καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος (kai Theos ēn ho Logos)
Morphology:

καὶ (kai): Coordinating conjunction, as above.
Θεὸς (Theos): Noun, nominative singular, without the definite article.
ἦν (ēn): Same verb, indicating continuous existence.
ὁ Λόγος (ho Logos): Article and noun, nominative singular, as above.
Syntax:

Predicate nominative (Θεὸς) is placed before the verb (ἦν), emphasizing the qualitative aspect of Theos ("God").

Subject (ὁ Λόγος) follows the verb (ἦν), maintaining grammatical clarity.

The absence of the definite article with Θεὸς avoids identifying ὁ Λόγος as the entirety of τὸν Θεόν (the Father), preserving Trinitarian distinction while affirming the Word’s divine essence.

2. Syntax and Semantic Implications

Use of the Imperfect Verb "ἦν"

The verb ἦν (imperfect active indicative) occurs in all three clauses, denoting continuous action in the past.

It emphasizes that the Word's existence transcends temporal constraints, affirming the Word's eternal nature.

Article Usage with "Θεὸς"

In Greek, the presence or absence of the article (ho) before Theos determines specificity versus essence.

In καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος, the absence of the article does not mean indefiniteness ("a god"); instead, it highlights the qualitative aspect of Theos.


If John had written ho Theos ēn ho Logos, it would imply that ho Logos exhaustively encompasses all that is God, collapsing the distinction between the Father and the Word.

Preposition "πρὸς"
The preposition πρὸς in πρὸς τὸν Θεόν conveys relational intimacy. This phrasing suggests both distinction (the Word is not the Father) and unity (the Word shares in the divine essence).

3. Rebutting the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Interpretation

Their Claim: "The Word was a god"

Morphology: They misunderstand the absence of the article before Θεὸς, wrongly equating it with indefiniteness.

Syntax: The Predicate Nominative structure (Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος) rules out an indefinite interpretation, as the grammatical construction emphasizes nature or quality, not separate identity or inferiority.

Proper Understanding: "The Word was God"
Morphologically, Θεὸς functions as a qualitative predicate nominative, affirming the divine nature of ὁ Λόγος.

Syntactically, the word order highlights Θεὸς while maintaining the distinction between the Word and the Father (πρὸς τὸν Θεόν).
This analysis confirms that the text does not describe the Word as "a god" but as fully divine in nature, consistent with Christian Trinitarian theology.
was God. Not "a god," for the lack of the Greek article here does not make "God" indefinite, but determines which term ("Word" or "God") is to be the subject of the linking verb "was."

Greek word order is somewhat more flexible than English, for in English statement sentences the predicate nominative always follows the linking verb. But the literal order of the Greek words here is "and God was the Word" (kai theos ēn o logos), the subject "Word" follows the verb, and the predicate nominative "God" precedes the verb, the reverse of English word order.

Since this clause uses a linking verb, both the subject and the predicate nominative are in the nominative case, so case endings do not serve to identify the subject in this construction; rather, the article "the" points out the subject of the clause. Greek uses the article "the" to accomplish what English does by word order.

Thus, if John had placed the article "the" before "God," the meaning would be "God was the Word;" if he had placed the article "the" before both "Word" and "God," the meaning would be convertible or reversible: it would mean equally "God was the Word," and "The Word was God," but this John did not do.

By placing the article "the" before "Word," "Word" must be the subject of the linking verb "was," and the statement can only be rendered "the Word was God."

Just as mistaken is the rendering "the Word was divine," for "God," lacking the article, is not thereby an adjective, or rendered qualitative when it precedes a linking verb followed by a noun which does have the article. See the note on Mat_27:54 for scholarly documentation and an explanation of this construction known technically as the "anarthrous noun."

Translators and translations which choose to render this phrase "a god" or "divine," are motivated by theological, not grammatical, considerations.

The phrase "a god" is particularly objectionable, because it makes Christ a lesser "god," which is polytheism, and contrary to the express declaration of Scripture elsewhere (Deu_32:39).

For clearly if Christ is "a god," then he must be either a "true god" or a "false god." If "true," we assert polytheism; if "false," he is unworthy of our credence. John’s high view of Christ expressed throughout his Gospel, climaxing in the testimony of Thomas, who addressed Christ as "my Lord and my God," is asserted from this opening statement, "the Word was God." There is no legitimate basis for understanding his declaration in any lesser sense than affirming the full deity of our Savior. **Jhn_5:18; +*Jhn_8:35; +*Jhn_8:58; +*Jhn_8:59; +*Jhn_10:30; +*Jhn_10:33; +*%+Jhn_10:34; Jhn_14:7; +**Jhn_20:28, +*Deu_32:39, +*Job_19:26, Isa_7:14; Isa_9:6; *Isa_43:10; **Isa_44:6, **Jer_23:5; **Jer_23:6, +*Mic_5:2, %Act_12:22; **Act_20:28, Rom_9:5, %*2Co_4:4, Eph_5:5 g. **Php_2:6 note. 2Th_1:12 g. 1Ti_3:16, **Tit_2:13 g. +*Heb_1:8, **2Pe_1:1 g. Rev_21:7.

It's truly disappointing to see how many translate this verse in a way similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses, seemingly in an attempt to undermine the deity of the Messiah. @ProDeo.

God bless. @marks anything you want to add?

J.
 
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Wrangler

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Hey, back up a little. Who said I was defending the trinity? I'm simply stating that God sent His Son. Which means He had a Son to send. I don't need the trinity to defend that. It's all through the NT.
Do you reject the trinity?

This thread is not about whether God had a son. This thread is about the trinity.
 
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