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David in NJ

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I believe the catching UP to the Clouds…
Applies to those IN Christ , ie. His Church)…While The Lord Descends from Heaven to the Clouds…
Certainly that IS….the Raptured’s Last Day on This Earth As It is….

Mortals are still on Earth…

He likened as the Son of Man is who came and Shall Return on a white cloud…To be Seen by All…His saints With Him, unseen to mortals
Yet still He is, NOT On Earth.

He separates those mortals on Earth…who have become believers during the Trib…their bodies martyred …dead…their saved souls gathered together by His Angels and Sent to Heaven.

I think we are not in the same sequence of events.
In brief…

There is a multitude of events occurring in the Last days….Preparation Gathering, and Tribulations, Wrath of the Lamb, the wrath of the Devil, Gathering, The wrath of God and the Remnant, the 1.000 years reign, the Raptured shall forever be with the Lord and the First Resurrected shall be Priests of Christ during the 1,000 yr reign. Another War…final elimination of all mortals and fallen angels spirits forever in the pits of hell….a new city. Earth and heaven one.

Every holy Angel, every fallen angel, every believer, every converted saved and quickened believer, every man who last minute becomes a believer, every non/believer, every non-believer who persecuted believers For their belief, believers not martyred, remaining mortal…
All have to be accounted, judged, sentenced….

Glory to God,
Taken
1 Thess 4:13-18 - The Resurrected and the Raptured are One Group = they are not separate except for the Resurrection being FIRST
The Resurrection and Rapture occur at the same time = at His Coming

Brother, read the Genesis account of Noah and the flood BUT make sure you start with Enoch and then pay carefull attention to
when Noah is told to leave the Ark.

Keeping in mind what Jesus said of His Return being as in the days of Noah
 
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A Freeman

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It's all over the scriptures FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE IT. It's hid to everyone else though...especially to those who make themselves enemies of God and keep on batting for the wrong team. Mind boggling.
Yes, it's all over the Scriptures FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE that there is no "trinity".

In addition to over 50 references to Christ being the Son of God (i.e. the created offspring of God), over 80 references to Jesus (the son of Mary whom Christ incarnated 2000 years ago) being the "Son of Man" (something God Himself said He could NEVER be), over 50 references to Christ being sent by God, and numerous references made by Christ that He is only a Servant of God, we have Christ's own words and example of worshiping, praying to, glorifying and giving all of the credit to His Father and God.

In fact, there are almost 200 verses referring to Father in the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and not one single verse referring to "the trinity" or to "the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- and that includes Matthew 28:19, where that wording was very obviously ADDED to the original text by the Roman Catholic church, just as they did in 1 John 5:7-8.

IF there was such a thing as a "trinity", as we find in ancient Babylonian paganism, and this is allegedly some critically important doctrine (even though it's found nowhere in the Bible), as most "Christians" have been duped into believing, then why didn't Christ ever talk about it? We have almost 200 verses below which presented a golden opportunity to promote the so-called "trinity" doctrine, and yet Christ ALWAYS gave credit instead to Father, Whom Christ plainly stated (at least 7 times) is Christ's God.

References made by Jesus in the Gospel accounts to His Father and His God (yes, Christ's Father is Christ's God, according to Christ):-

Matthew (42)

5:16; 5:44-45; 5:48; 6:1; 6:4-18; 6:26; 6:32; 7:11; 7:21-24; 10:17-20; 10:28-33; 11:25-27; 12:50; 13:41-43; 15:13-14; 16:15-17; 16:27; 18:10; 18:14; 18:19; 18:35; 19:16-17; 20:23; 23:9; 24:36; 25:34; 26:29; 26:39; 26:42; 26:53-54

Mark (6)
8:38; 10:17-18; 11:25-26; 13:32; 14:36

Luke (17)
1:32; 2:49; 6:36; 9:26; 10:21-22; 11:2; 12:28-32; 18:18-19; 22:29-30; 22:41-42; 23:34; 23:46; 24:49

John (134)
1:14; 1:18; 2:16; 3:34-36; 4:21-24; 5:16-47; 6:27-29; 6:32-40; 6:44-46; 6:57; 6:65; 8:7-10 (8:16-19 KJV); 8:16-23 (8:25-55 KJV); 10:14-38; 11:40-42; 12:26-30; 12:48-50; 13:1-3; 14:1-2; 14:6-7; 14:9-16; 14:20; 14:23-31; 15:1; 15:8-10; 15:15-16; 15:23-27; 16:2-3; 16:10; 16:15-17; 16:23-32; 17; 18:11; 20:17; 20:21

Matthew 6:9-13 (Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, while here on Earth)
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be THY name.
6:10 THY Kingdom come. THY Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts and trespasses (if we truly repent), as we forgive our debtors and those who trespass against us (if they truly repent).
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For THINE is The Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Matthew 19:16-17
19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have Eternal Life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but ONE, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.
 

David in NJ

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Yes, it's all over the Scriptures FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE that there is no "trinity".

In addition to over 50 references to Christ being the Son of God (i.e. the created offspring of God), over 80 references to Jesus (the son of Mary whom Christ incarnated 2000 years ago) being the "Son of Man" (something God Himself said He could NEVER be), over 50 references to Christ being sent by God, and numerous references made by Christ that He is only a Servant of God, we have Christ's own words and example of worshiping, praying to, glorifying and giving all of the credit to His Father and God.

In fact, there are almost 200 verses referring to Father in the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and not one single verse referring to "the trinity" or to "the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- and that includes Matthew 28:19, where that wording was very obviously ADDED to the original text by the Roman Catholic church, just as they did in 1 John 5:7-8.

IF there was such a thing as a "trinity", as we find in ancient Babylonian paganism, and this is allegedly some critically important doctrine (even though it's found nowhere in the Bible), as most "Christians" have been duped into believing, then why didn't Christ ever talk about it? We have almost 200 verses below which presented a golden opportunity to promote the so-called "trinity" doctrine, and yet Christ ALWAYS gave credit instead to Father, Whom Christ plainly stated (at least 7 times) is Christ's God.

References made by Jesus in the Gospel accounts to His Father and His God (yes, Christ's Father is Christ's God, according to Christ):-

Matthew (42)

5:16; 5:44-45; 5:48; 6:1; 6:4-18; 6:26; 6:32; 7:11; 7:21-24; 10:17-20; 10:28-33; 11:25-27; 12:50; 13:41-43; 15:13-14; 16:15-17; 16:27; 18:10; 18:14; 18:19; 18:35; 19:16-17; 20:23; 23:9; 24:36; 25:34; 26:29; 26:39; 26:42; 26:53-54

Mark (6)
8:38; 10:17-18; 11:25-26; 13:32; 14:36

Luke (17)
1:32; 2:49; 6:36; 9:26; 10:21-22; 11:2; 12:28-32; 18:18-19; 22:29-30; 22:41-42; 23:34; 23:46; 24:49

John (134)
1:14; 1:18; 2:16; 3:34-36; 4:21-24; 5:16-47; 6:27-29; 6:32-40; 6:44-46; 6:57; 6:65; 8:7-10 (8:16-19 KJV); 8:16-23 (8:25-55 KJV); 10:14-38; 11:40-42; 12:26-30; 12:48-50; 13:1-3; 14:1-2; 14:6-7; 14:9-16; 14:20; 14:23-31; 15:1; 15:8-10; 15:15-16; 15:23-27; 16:2-3; 16:10; 16:15-17; 16:23-32; 17; 18:11; 20:17; 20:21

Matthew 6:9-13 (Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, while here on Earth)
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be THY name.
6:10 THY Kingdom come. THY Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts and trespasses (if we truly repent), as we forgive our debtors and those who trespass against us (if they truly repent).
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For THINE is The Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Matthew 19:16-17
19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have Eternal Life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but ONE, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.
Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Cornerstone and Foundation???
 
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Scott Downey

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1 Thess 4:13-18 - The Resurrected and the Raptured are One Group = they are not separate except for the Resurrection being FIRST
The Resurrection and Rapture occur at the same time = at His Coming

Brother, read the Genesis account of Noah and the flood BUT make sure you start with Enoch and then pay carefull attention to
when Noah is told to leave the Ark.

Keeping in mind what Jesus said of His Return being as in the days of Noah
Good comparison, the flood came and swept them all away, all air breathers died, except Noah, family and the animals in the ark.

Same thing when Christ returns

2 Thess 1

Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s Final Judgment and Glory​

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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TheHC

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"Without controversy how great is the mystery of Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh…"
1 Timothy 3:16 does not say “God” in the older manuscripts. They say “Who was manifest in the flesh.”

John 1:18 & 1 John 4:12 tell us, “No one has ever seen God.”

Do you think the Bible really contradicts itself? (Some versions, written by trinitarians, make it seem so.)
"I have been with you all this time and you still do not know me…? If you have seen me you have seen the Father….."
So, Jesus is his Father? At John 14:28, Jesus tells us “The Father is greater than I am.”

No, Jesus is “the image of God.”
- 1 Cor. 4:8
He is “the exact representation” of God. - Hebrews 1:3

So, seeing Jesus was just like seeing his Father… they felt, thought, and acted the same.

Still, an “image” & “representation” are not the genuine article.
Are they?
Interesting that Paul, in describing Jesus, calls him an “image” of God; Paul knew that images were condemned in worship! The last thing he wanted, was to encourage Jews & Christians to worship Jesus!

Misrepresenting Scripture is easy to do, when it’s taken out of context.

Once we learn our error, we should stop.
 
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Aunty Jane

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John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Since you seem fond of posting scripture with no comment, can we have a look at what it means to “BELIEVE”?
James 2:19 gives us some perspective….
”You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder”.
So what are we to make of that….what do the demons “believe” that makes them “shudder”?
They know the truth, and they have been hiding it from so called “ChristIans” for a very long time in the teachings of the churches……the truth about who Yahweh is….who Jesus is….the role of the Holy Spirit…..and the truth about life and death on this planet. Fed to generations for centuries so that like sheep to the slaughter, they have left the path of truth completely….all that is left is a vague shadow of what once was.

The demons “believe” that there is one God who does not exist in three different personalities…they know that God’s power, his Holy Spirit could snuff them out like a candle, yet still they mock him….and they even petitioned the son when on earth not to make them go away into the abyss that they know is waiting for them…..they have much to “shudder” about.

What about you? What does it mean for you to “believe” in Jesus Christ? Is it mere mental acknowledgment? Or something much deeper?

If someone met you for the first time, would they detect something about you that was different to the world in general?
At this time of year for example….are you running with the crowd, pretending that Christmas is a happy family time, like in the movies?…with everyone getting and giving presents that are left under a decorated Christmas tree, with magical lighting, by a mythical character that doesn’t even exist…..but the lies about him are reinforced to children when they see him in the shopping mall and have their photo taken with him….or to see the nativity scenes with them all at the stable…when they were never actually there….is it just harmless deception?

What about the star on top of the Christmas tree? Does it have pride of place as the means of guiding the “three wise men” to worship Jesus at the stable, and to bring him gifts?
Who were these so called “wise men”? And who sent them to a wicked king who was determined to kill the new “king of the Jews” that they had come to honor?

Please examine the customs that are followed at this time of year in Christendom and tell me where they originated and then read 2 Cor 6:14-18 and see if God has a problem with what the world does at this time of year?

What are we to “BELIEVE”….? Or rather WHO are we to believe?…..someone who tells us an inconvenient truth…..or someone who justifies the pretty lies?
 
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Aunty Jane

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Joh 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Does that count ?
No…..it’s the same word that was used in John 1:1 (theos)….it is not a word that means only “God” with a capital “G”…..it is a word that is descriptive of any divine personage or a representative of that one.

Read John 10:31-36 in a Greek Interlinear and see that God (Yahweh) is always identified with the definite article “ho”…..you can plainly see where the definite article is missing, which is a reference to a “divine mighty one”, but not necessarily Yahweh.
God himself calls his human judges “theos” (gods) because they were his representative….as was Jesus ….a divine representative of his God and Father.
 
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David in NJ

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@David in NJ , it’s commendable that you saw the need to leave Catholicism. What made you leave? It seems you kept many of the doctrines that they started. I’m curious as to why.
Thank You @TheHC

Being raised RCC i knew of Jesus and believed but not unto Salvation - only the Seed of the Gospel was planted as a Catholic
This i very important for you to know that the RCC has the Gospel but they pervert it with their religion to DISTRACT the people
away from the Truth to keep the people in bondage to sin.

The FATHER called me at the age 23 to believe on His Son and come to repentance and Salvation in the Finished Work of God in CHRIST
Sometime after His conversion in me, Born-Again, i was Baptized in the Holy Spirit and from their the Truth took Flight
Been SAVED by the precious Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ for 40 years now and looking to His Return or my going Home.

It seems you kept many of the doctrines that they started.
All RCC doctrines went to the pit where they belong - i hold to none of their falsehood

i even remember that soon after my Salvation i realized that Dec 25th is NOT the Birth of JESUS
Christmas was/is a major money-maker for the RCC

From the little research i have done i believe that JESUS was born in the Spring, most likely on Passover.




 

TheHC

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Thank You @TheHC

Being raised RCC i knew of Jesus and believed but not unto Salvation - only the Seed of the Gospel was planted as a Catholic
This i very important for you to know that the RCC has the Gospel but they pervert it with their religion to DISTRACT the people
away from the Truth to keep the people in bondage to sin.

The FATHER called me at the age 23 to believe on His Son and come to repentance and Salvation in the Finished Work of God in CHRIST
Sometime after His conversion in me, Born-Again, i was Baptized in the Holy Spirit and from their the Truth took Flight
Been SAVED by the precious Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ for 40 years now and looking to His Return or my going Home.


All RCC doctrines went to the pit where they belong - i hold to none of their falsehood
I appreciate your friendly reply
 
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David in NJ

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Yes, it's all over the Scriptures FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES TO SEE that there is no "trinity".

In addition to over 50 references to Christ being the Son of God (i.e. the created offspring of God), over 80 references to Jesus (the son of Mary whom Christ incarnated 2000 years ago) being the "Son of Man" (something God Himself said He could NEVER be), over 50 references to Christ being sent by God, and numerous references made by Christ that He is only a Servant of God, we have Christ's own words and example of worshiping, praying to, glorifying and giving all of the credit to His Father and God.

In fact, there are almost 200 verses referring to Father in the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and not one single verse referring to "the trinity" or to "the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- and that includes Matthew 28:19, where that wording was very obviously ADDED to the original text by the Roman Catholic church, just as they did in 1 John 5:7-8.

IF there was such a thing as a "trinity", as we find in ancient Babylonian paganism, and this is allegedly some critically important doctrine (even though it's found nowhere in the Bible), as most "Christians" have been duped into believing, then why didn't Christ ever talk about it? We have almost 200 verses below which presented a golden opportunity to promote the so-called "trinity" doctrine, and yet Christ ALWAYS gave credit instead to Father, Whom Christ plainly stated (at least 7 times) is Christ's God.

References made by Jesus in the Gospel accounts to His Father and His God (yes, Christ's Father is Christ's God, according to Christ):-

Matthew (42)

5:16; 5:44-45; 5:48; 6:1; 6:4-18; 6:26; 6:32; 7:11; 7:21-24; 10:17-20; 10:28-33; 11:25-27; 12:50; 13:41-43; 15:13-14; 16:15-17; 16:27; 18:10; 18:14; 18:19; 18:35; 19:16-17; 20:23; 23:9; 24:36; 25:34; 26:29; 26:39; 26:42; 26:53-54

Mark (6)
8:38; 10:17-18; 11:25-26; 13:32; 14:36

Luke (17)
1:32; 2:49; 6:36; 9:26; 10:21-22; 11:2; 12:28-32; 18:18-19; 22:29-30; 22:41-42; 23:34; 23:46; 24:49

John (134)
1:14; 1:18; 2:16; 3:34-36; 4:21-24; 5:16-47; 6:27-29; 6:32-40; 6:44-46; 6:57; 6:65; 8:7-10 (8:16-19 KJV); 8:16-23 (8:25-55 KJV); 10:14-38; 11:40-42; 12:26-30; 12:48-50; 13:1-3; 14:1-2; 14:6-7; 14:9-16; 14:20; 14:23-31; 15:1; 15:8-10; 15:15-16; 15:23-27; 16:2-3; 16:10; 16:15-17; 16:23-32; 17; 18:11; 20:17; 20:21

Matthew 6:9-13 (Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, while here on Earth)
6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be THY name.
6:10 THY Kingdom come. THY Will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts and trespasses (if we truly repent), as we forgive our debtors and those who trespass against us (if they truly repent).
6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For THINE is The Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Matthew 19:16-17
19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have Eternal Life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but ONE, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.
All the scriptures you posted are TRUTH and AMEN

Are you willing to take a closer look some?
 

A Freeman

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Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Cornerstone and Foundation???
Of course. And that the body Christ will be using during His Second Coming will be from the tribe of Joseph-Ephraim.

Genesis 49:10; 22-24
49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah [to Joseph], nor a law-giver from between his feet, UNTIL Shiloh comes [from Joseph-Ephraim v 22-24]; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].

49:22 Joseph [is] a fruitful bough, [even] a fruitful bough by a well; [whose] branches run over the wall:
49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot [at him], and hated him:
49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty [God] of Jacob; (from THERE [is] The Shepherd, The [Corner] Stone of Israel:)(1 Cor. 10:4; Daniel 2:34-5; 45)

Matthew 21:42-43
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The Stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the Head of the Corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof (the "10 lost tribes" - the "House of Israel").
 

David in NJ

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1 Timothy 3:16 does not say “God” in the older manuscripts. They say “Who was manifest in the flesh.”

John 1:18 & 1 John 4:12 tell us, “No one has ever seen God.”

Do you think the Bible really contradicts itself? (Some versions, written by trinitarians, make it seem so.)

So, Jesus is his Father? At John 14:28, Jesus tells us “The Father is greater than I am.”

No, Jesus is “the image of God.”
- 1 Cor. 4:8
He is “the exact representation” of God. - Hebrews 1:3

An “image” & “representation” are not the genuine article.
Are they?
Interesting that Paul, in describing Jesus, calls him an “image” of God; Paul knew that images were condemned in worship! The last thing he wanted, was to encourage Jews & Christians to worship Jesus!

Misrepresenting Scripture is easy to do, when it’s taken out of context.

Once we learn our error, we should stop.
Jesus is not His Father = Correct

However, we must permit the Word of Truth to teach us/reveal to us, Who exactly the FATHER, the WORD and the HOLY SPIRIT are

AGREE ???
 
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David in NJ

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Of course. And that the body Christ will be using during His Second Coming will be from the tribe of Joseph-Ephraim.

Genesis 49:10; 22-24
49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah [to Joseph], nor a law-giver from between his feet, UNTIL Shiloh comes [from Joseph-Ephraim v 22-24]; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].

49:22 Joseph [is] a fruitful bough, [even] a fruitful bough by a well; [whose] branches run over the wall:
49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot [at him], and hated him:
49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty [God] of Jacob; (from THERE [is] The Shepherd, The [Corner] Stone of Israel:)(1 Cor. 10:4; Daniel 2:34-5; 45)

Matthew 21:42-43
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The Stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the Head of the Corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION bringing forth the fruits thereof (the "10 lost tribes" - the "House of Israel").
And that the body Christ will be using during His Second Coming will be from the tribe of Joseph-Ephraim.
By this statement, do you believe that in order for JESUS to Return/His 2nd Coming(H2C) that He must come in another body???

If, Yes - please share - and i SEE the prophecy that you posted - Thank You
 

David in NJ

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Thank-you. What makes you believe the Scripture that's been personally posted hasn't been studied in great detail please?
i've been saved for 40 years and the Scriptures are my daily bread, so i never assume i know all things - no one should

We who are in Christ are One Body, therefore God has called us to learn, grow and encourage from one another.
 
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