DOES BELIEF THAT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED MEAN WE CAN SIN?

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FearTheLord

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In regard to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" here carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows continuous, willful, habitual, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)
Actually, Hebrews 10 was about not caving to the pressure of the Judaizers to revert back to the Law of Moses. Either way, it really doesn't matter. God provides an escape from all sin as I pointed out with 1Corinthians 10:13, but if we do sin, repentance is still available (1John 2:1)...if we sin.

[1Jo 2:1 NASB95] 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;​
[1Co 10:13 NASB95] 13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.​
 

FearTheLord

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Very well.
Continue in your fear and insecurity. You earned it.


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The fear of the Lord is a good thing. It's the beginning of wisdom, and it makes your faith strong. Don't shrink back from it. Confront it and speak the truth. Acknowledge what the Spirit says through the scriptures.

[Rev 21:8 NASB95] 8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part [will be] in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."​
 

St. SteVen

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The fear of the Lord is a good thing. It's the beginning of wisdom, and it makes your faith strong. Don't shrink back from it. Confront it and speak the truth. Acknowledge what the Spirit says through the scriptures.

[Rev 21:8 NASB95] 8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part [will be] in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."​
Sorry. I won't trade my peace for what you are selling!

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mailmandan

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Actually, Hebrews 10 was about not caving to the pressure of the Judaizers to revert back to the Law of Moses. Either way, it really doesn't matter. God provides an escape from all sin as I pointed out with 1Corinthians 10:13, but if we do sin, repentance is still available (1John 2:1)...if we sin.

[1Jo 2:1 NASB95] 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;​
[1Co 10:13 NASB95] 13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.​
As you can see it's not all about US.

Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Proverbs 24:16
For a righteous man may fall seven times
and rise again,

But the wicked shall fall by calamity.
 

FearTheLord

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Sorry. I won't trade my peace for what you are selling!

[
[Pro 1:28-31 NASB95] 28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me, 29 Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD. 30 "They would not accept my counsel, They spurned all my reproof. 31 "So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way And be satiated with their own devices.
 
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GodsGrace

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Fair enough.
I guess you will have to contend with these then.

Believers are secure because the Father has chosen them to salvation from eternity past (Eph. 1:4).
Oh.. You ARE reformed.
So...perhaps you could post some verses that state that God chose some individuals for salvation from eternity past....
Ephesians 1:4 won't work.
Here's what it states:

Ephesians 1:4
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,


What does it say?:
1. God chose us IN CHRIST .... we are saved IN CHRIST.......God chose the METHOD,,,the HOW of our salvation.
2. God chose us to be holy and blameless before Him....Through Christ we will be holy and blameless. Another HOW.
3. Lovingly, God predestined us as sons.....Doesn't say anyone was predestined...just that we are predestined AS SONS.........HOW
4. The kind intention of His will........and what is the will of God?
THAT ALL would come to the knowledge of Him.
1 Timothy 2:4
...Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The Father predestined believers to come to the status of sonship in Christ (Eph. 1:5).
If understood correctly...,.this is correct.
God predestined HOW believers would come to be sons....
not WHO.
The Father has the power to keep believers secure in their salvation (Rom. 8:28–30).
Romans 8:28-30
God works all things for the good.
Where does it state that God is KEEPING believers secure?

JESUS in John 15:1 stated that God would CUT OFF THE BRANCHES that did not bear fruit.
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;

No fruit...
No salvation....

No verse proving OSAS because IT DOES NOT EXIST.
The ones the Father foreknew, predestined, called, and justified are the same ones He brings to glorification in the future. None are lost in the process. The Father’s love for believers also guarantees their security (Rom. 5:7–10).
That is not what Romans 5:7-10 states....

7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.


We are saved IF we are reconciled...
IF we do not fall away.

Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel



The writers of the NT and Jesus, taught that it's possible to fall away from the faith:

Revelation 2:4-5
4‘But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
5‘Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.

Romans 11:19-22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.


We should pay attention to thise IFs.


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GodsGrace

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@St. SteVen

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The Son has redeemed the believer (Eph. 1:7), removed the wrath of God from the believer (Rom. 3:25), justified the believer (Rom. 5:1), provided forgiveness (Col. 2:13), and sanctified the believer (1 Cor. 1:2).

Moreover, Christ prays for believers to be with Him (John 17:24); He continues to be their Advocate at God’s bar of justice (1 John 2:1); and He continues to make intercession as the believer’s High Priest (Heb. 7:25). If a believer could be lost it would imply Christ is ineffective in His work as the believer’s Mediator.
How could a believer be lost???
A believer is following what Jesus taught.
A believer loves God and will do as God commands.
A BELIEVER cannot be lost.


But a believer can become an unbeliever...
either by his own will to unbelieve
or
due to a sinful lifestyle.
In addition, Jesus has promised His followers life everlasting: “I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand” (John 10:28–29).
Perfect.
Correct.
But still an ingredient missing which has been spoken about throughout the NT.
NO ONE can snatch a believer out of God's hands....
UNLESS he allows the devil to convince him to leave God's hands.

1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
Note that Jesus promised eternal life. If a believer could lose their salvation, it would not be eternal. Further, Jesus said “they will never perish.” “Never” is a double negative in the Greek text (ou me), which would translate “not never” to reinforce the point. Additionally, the word stands in the emphatic position in the text, emphasizing the follower of Christ will not never perish.
Right. THE FOLLOWER of Christ will never perish.
Question is: Are we following Christ and His teachings?

If not...then we do not have eternal life.
The Holy Spirit has regenerated the believer, giving him life (Titus 3:5); the Holy Spirit indwells the believer forever (John 14:17); He has sealed the believer for the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30), the sealing being a down payment, guaranteeing our future inheritance; the believer is baptized into union with Christ and into the body of believers (1 Cor. 12:13).
Nice thoughts.
I hope you realize that the Holy Spirit cannot live with sin.
Again...a believer is safe.
A BELIEVER
is safe.

The spirit is at adds with the flesh.
Galatians 5:16.....

You posted something about Greek...
what does BELIEVE mean in Greek?
If we're going to use Greek...
let's use it for everything.
For a believer to lose his salvation would demand a reversal and an undoing of all the preceding works of the Father, Son, and Spirit. The key issue in the discussion of the believer’s security concerns the issue of who does the saving.

If man is responsible for securing his salvation, then he can be lost;
if God secures the person’s salvation, then the person is forever secure.
Sorry SS...
Looks like it's the opposite...
I'll post it again...
Calvinists cannot be sure God picked them...

Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts. Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.

John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8


*********************************************************************************************************************
The eternal security of the believer by the grace of God is the completion and crowning glory of God’s plan of salvation.
Source: Paul Enns, The Moody Handbook of Theology, ed. Jim Vincent and Allan Sholes, Revised and Expanded. (Chicago, IL: Moody Publishers, 2014), 354–356.


I suggest paying heed to what the NT teaches and not what Paul Enns teaches.

Calvinists like to post calvinist writings because they find comfort in them.
Unfortunately, it is NOT what the NT teaches....
and no other denomination teaches what the reformed teach...
because it is not biblical.
 

GodsGrace

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As you can see it's not all about US.

Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Proverbs 24:16
For a righteous man may fall seven times
and rise again,

But the wicked shall fall by calamity.
Dan,,,
I have a challenge for you:

Use the NT to find a verse that states that it is not possible for man to lose his salvation...
or
to support the idea that man cannot lose his salvation.

Psalm 37:28 is right: GOD DOES NOT FORSAKE HIS SAINTS.
Proverbs 24:16 is right also,,,,a righteous man can fall and get back up.
But some never get back up.

I'd like the NT to be our source since JESUS is teaching there and HE is the ultimate revelation of God.
No poetic writing and no hyperbole...ONLY FACTS.

You might already know this, or you may not.
I think you do....but RUMMAGE thru the OT, as many do, because you can find practically anything there.

THIS is why Jesus had to come to us in flesh and blood.
§To clarify many OT concepts...
YOU HAVE HARD IT SAID...
BUT I SAY TO YOU...

Anyway, the NT writers and Jesus taught that salvation could be lost.
OSAS is a very dangerous teaching.
 
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GodsGrace

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In regard to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" here carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows continuous, willful, habitual, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

Confidence is rooted in the sacrificial death and blood of Jesus, yet those who draw back to perdition and do not believe to the saving of the soul (Hebrews 10:39) demonstrate a lack of confidence which culminates in a lack of perseverance. So, those Hebrews who reject the sacrificial death and blood of Jesus for the Levitical system, have in effect of trampled the Son of God underfoot, counting the blood of the covenant as a common thing, and insulting the Spirit of grace. For such folks, there no longer remains a sacrifice to atone for their sins, no further offering to anticipate.

Believers are not passive in continuing in sound doctrine, but it's not merely in our own power that we continue. God alone saves, but "in a sense" we save ourselves and others through continuing in sound doctrine, as we continue to believe the gospel and are used as God's instruments to bring about the salvation of others through preaching the gospel to them as well.

If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down a rope and pulled you out of the well, "in a sense" you can say that you "saved yourself" by choosing to grab and hold onto the rope and allowing that person to pull you out of the well, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out of the well saved you and ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who saves us.
The above makes sense....
Why not stick to these ideas instead of teaching some young Christian that he cannot fall away under any circumstance...ù
which is what YOU and others on this forum are doing.

We are secure in Christ as long as we ARE IN CHRIST.
We can be sure of our salvation as long as we BELIEVE IN CHRIST...and all that believe carries with it.

Now...I see a big difference between your post above and some of your other posts.
Do YOU see the difference??
 
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Davy

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I asked What does the whole loaf consist of?
And I told you. Now it's up to YOU to go and actually discipline yourself in ALL OF IT.

2 Tim 2:15
15 Study
to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
KJV


Listen to God in His Word per Apostle Paul, not men.

When you STUDY all of God's Word, disciplining yourself in all of it, approval from God comes of it, as you become a "workman" in His written Word. That means a working knowledge of His Word, not men's philosophy. And by that you will not... be "ashamed".

Why would Apostle Paul reveal that 'shame' can come to those who DO NOT become a "workman" in God's Word? Especially for us at the end, it means not understanding 'the times and the seasons', meaning the events of the END leading up to Christ's future return and gathering of His faithful Church.
 

St. SteVen

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Anyway, the NT writers and Jesus taught that salvation could be lost.
OSAS is a very dangerous teaching.
So... you have no assurance of salvation?
What a terrible position to be in.
Just wait and see? What if you were wrong? (toast)

1734710559198.jpeg

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DJT_47

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Hebrews was talking about apostacy.

How do you maintain your salvation?

Do you live life wondering if you are going to heaven or hell?
Apostacy is renunciation That's what I said. That's what Hebrews says.

Repentance is the remedy for sin subsequent to being saved. 1 John 1:9

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12
 

marks

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In regard to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" here carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows continuous, willful, habitual, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)
The passage in Hebrews, when it says there is no more sacrifice for sins, the "no more" refers to the ending of a series. So this passage is saying, if you sin, you can't just keep offering lambs now that that you know about Jesus.

Hebrews 10:26 KJV
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

This is a passage that has been commonly misunderstood. It's speaking towards those who have learned of Jesus, but don't want to receive Him, so they think they can just bring another lamb to the temple. Here the writer says, no, you cannot. It's Jesus, or just that looking forward to condemnation.

Much love!
 

marks

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Prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I had absolutely no assurance of salvation and was miserable! Fear and bondage to IN-security is no way to live the Christian life. Our assurance is found ONLY in Jesus Christ. (1 John 5:11-13)
Amen!!

Much love!
 
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marks

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[Gal 5:4, 7 NASB95] 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. ...
Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Either we are trying to stand by doing the right things, or we are trying to stand by trusting in God. By trusting in Jesus, we enter into grace in which we stand, but if we attempt to stand by doing the "right things", we are living according to law and have fallen from grace.

This is not a statement of the "loss of salvation". What you didn't do (regeneration) you cannot undo.

Much love!
 
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ElectedbyHim

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[Heb 10:26-27 NKJV] 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.


[1Ti 4:16 NKJV] 16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
I'll take God's word over your opinions.
10:26–31​

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1. To the Knowledge of the Truth

10:26–27

Forsaking the congregation at worship leads to serious consequences. The author warns the believers that the sequel to sinning deliberately is falling “into the hands of the living God” (10:31).

26. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27. but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

The word deliberately stands first in the original Greek, and as the opening word of the sentence it receives all the emphasis. The term occurs only twice in the New Testament, here and in 1 Peter 5:2. It refers to something done intentionally.

In the Old Testament the distinction is made between sins committed unintentionally and sins committed intentionally. The first can be forgiven; the second cannot. Moses writes, “But anyone who sins defiantly, whether native-born or alien, blasphemes the Lord, and that person must be cut off from his people” (Num. 15:30; see also Lev. 4:2, 22, 27; 5:15, 18; Num. 15:24 for unintentional sins).

The author of Hebrews is rather specific. He writes concerning a person who sins intentionally and who keeps on doing this in open rebellion against God and his Word. To reach his readers in a pastoral manner, he even includes himself in the warning not to sin defiantly. He is not talking about a believer who falls into sin unintentionally and finds forgiveness in God’s grace and mercy. Rather, he points to the same sin that Jesus calls the sin against the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:32; Mark 3:29) and that John describes as “a sin that leads to death” (1 John 5:16). Although he employs different terms, the writer virtually repeats the same thought he expressed in 3:12 and 6:4–6, where he speaks of falling away from the living God.

Those who turn away from God and “have received the knowledge of the truth” can never say that they sinned in ignorance. The phrase knowledge of the truth relates to God’s revelation in general and the gospel in particular (see 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Tim. 2:25; 3:7; Titus 1:1). They who at one time received this truth, but now have turned against God and his revelation, are without excuse. Nothing can save them. They know that Christ’s sacrifice is the only sacrifice that removes sin. If they deliberately reject Christ and his atoning work, they reject salvation. For them, says the writer, “no sacrifice for sins is left.”

What then is left? “Only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” A decision against Christ taken deliberately can only result in judgment. And judgment is not merely something that happens at the end of time. Evidence already is being gathered and presented to the jury in preparation for the judgment day. And that is a fearful expectation!

The emphasis falls on the adjective fearful. The word occurs three times in the New Testament, all in this epistle (10:27, 31: 12:21). This adjective is translated “fearful,” “dreadful,” and “terrifying.” In all three instances its use pertains to meeting God. The sinner cannot escape God’s judgment and, unless he has been forgiven in Christ, faces an angry God on that dreadful day.

Not only the judgment awaits the sinner who will receive the verdict, but also the execution of that verdict. The author vividly portrays the execution as a raging fire that will consume all those who have chosen to be enemies of God. Actually he echoes the words of Isaiah’s prophecy, “Let the fire reserved for your enemies consume them” (Isa. 26:11).[1]



[1] Simon J. Kistemaker and William Hendriksen, Exposition of Hebrews, vol. 15, New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1953–2001), 293–294.
 

Behold

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Hebrews 10 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth,​

And that verse is talking not about living in sin, as a Christian.....

Its talking about "willful Christ rejection"......as when you do that...= "there remains no more SACRIFICE for your sin"..

And why not?
Its because the only Sacrifice for sin, is JESUS.. so, if you "willfully reject HIM"., you have willfully rejected"" the only SACRIFICE for sin.""

So, that is to commit "" the unpardonable sin"".......and that can't be committed by a Christian, as Jesus has already become their Eternal Sacrifice.

Now, where is the heresy found?
Its found in the theology of people who believe that these verses in Hebrews are talking to : Born Again Christians.
As they dont realize that the Apostle would not be offering this group Salvation... had they believed in Him, already, and were born again .

So, we see that THIS GROUP, are JEWISH unbelievers..(Epistle to the HEBREWS)..... as they are rejecting their MESSIAH, and that is always a JEW, in the NT, as only the JEWS are looking for their MESSIAH...........and In Hebrews 6:4, and Hebrews 10, .. they are rejecting their MESSIAH.

If you read Acts 2:36, you see Peter preaching to Jews.....also. and that is what you have here.. You have Hebrews, who are rejecting their Messiah.
These HEBREWS verses are actually revealed by PAUL, in more detail, in ACTS 28:28...

So, what the READER here, needs to understand.. is that deceivers on Forums and in Pulpits and in Commentaries, and on YOUTUBE.. who do not understand these Hebrews verses, will try to send a CHRISTIAN to hell, by misrepresenting and twisting these verses written to : HEBREWS, in the epistle to the HEBREWS, where the Apostle is warning HEBREWS not to reject The Savior.


Now, when you find a heretic twisting verse in Hebrews Chapters 6 and 10..... to try to put that "lost your salvation" deception on you.. then you mark them as deceivers ..., and you never listen to their theology, as they do not believe that JESUS Keeps them Saved, and that means they do not even understand the most basic aspect of Christianity...(The Cross of Christ)......yet they want you to perceive them as "Theology teachers", and they are... in fact this one.

= Satan's ministers are ministers of RIGHTEOUSNESS>............as they will talk about law, and sin, and Jesus, and Hebrews 10, and yet, its all to deceive you.
 
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