THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[David in NJ]

And you have a fertile mind!

How can you lose!

Absolutely, for i am the planting of the LORD for His display and pleasure!!!

 

[face2face]

@RLT63

Peter, through inspiration, uses a powerful analogy. He says, "the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..." (1 Pet. 3:21). The entire human race is depicted as a community of prisoners, condemned to death because of sin. Even while awaiting the inevitable judgment, they are "all their lifetime subject to bondage" (Heb. 2:15). The way of escape from this prison is through baptism into Jesus Christ, the antitypical ark. "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27).

You know this is true but resist it due to what you describe as "confirmation bias." You need Jesus to be alive in death to support the Trinitarian doctrine, and you are willing to twist and manipulate Scripture to make that fit.

What I will do is declare truth in the hope you will lay down your dogma and accept truth.

F2F

@RLT63 I know right!

 

[David in NJ]

@RLT63 I know right!

LOL x100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Unbelief is not 'right'

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63 I know right!

That Jesus had a Spirit that lived in the afterlife for 3 days prior to the resurrection has nothing to do with the Trinity, why do you think there was an earthquake and dead people arose and were seen by many?
Mat 27:52 - Also the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the [fn]saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Tools

Mat 27:53 - and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

 

[face2face]

LOL x100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Unbelief is not 'right'

You're quite amusing, David. I believe @RLT63 showed integrity when he acknowledged that the case was valid and also admitted that he was lackluster in presenting his argument, as he merely copied and pasted verses without demonstrating a deeper understanding. Everything is open to His Eyes.

F2F

 

[Grailhunter]

The problem with these doctrines is that as a whole the scriptures as well as the storyline of the Gospels do not support the one God formula. The Gospels clearly show the Father and Son interacting and communicating throughout Christ’s ministry. Even the people that were not Apostles understood that there were individuals Gods in the trinity…. Like the time the Mother of James and John Asked Christ that her sons sit on thrones on either side of Him? And Christ answered that the places at My right side and at My left side are not Mine to give. Whoever My Father says will have those places.” There are several examples like this but one God formula people are so brain washed that they cannot see the forest for the trees.

The Church’s frustrations with the scriptures led them to actually adding verses to certain Bibles to clarify their point and add authority to their doctrine. The most well known of these forged scriptures is called “the Comma Johanneum Addition” which still appears in the Catholic Bible and King James Version of the Bible.

The Comma Johanneum as it is referred to, originated as a common literary explanation for the one God Trinity formula. The first discussion against the one God formula may have been around the 3rd century. Some mention a connection with some of the early Church Fathers, like Cyprian which debated the oneness concepts of the Trinity. It first appeared in written form during the 4th century in the Latin homily Liber Apologeticus, which was probably written by Priscillian of Avila. This theological formula was circulated from then on, but was not accepted, or at least was not quoted by most of the early Church Fathers in which there was a continual disagreement on the construct of the Trinity.

At some point this short summary of the Trinity made its way into the margin notes of some of the manuscripts that were written after the 5th century. Unlike other examples of popular margin notes that made their way into the scriptures, the Comma Johanneum found its way into the verses of the Bible by way of another avenue. After the early 16th century, the Byzantines began to recopy and retranslate the available Greek texts of the New Testament. At this point some of these copies became known as the “Textus Receptus.” ---Erasmus--- It was in some of these that the formula was added and then later included in some of the Bibles. Most notably the King James Version, which relied heavily on these texts. On the 2nd of June 1927, Pope Pius XI decreed that the Comma Johanneum was open to dispute. The updated " Nova Vulgata" edition of the Vulgate, published in 1979 as a result of the Second Vatican Council, does not include the Comma. In the Catholic study Bible I have that was printed around 1960 includes a combination of these two scriptures, with a side note that explains that it was a re-phrasing of the scriptures by the Holy See, as it was his prerogative. But as such are open to debate.

As it happened the Comma Johanneum Addition was much more than a re-translation, or an addition, but rather a replacement of the original scriptures with a theological statement. They kept the verse numbers in sequence so that it would not be as noticeable, but replaced the words.

The scriptures involved are 1st John 5:6-8. The original scriptures read as follows... (Quoting 6 through 8, so it can be read in context)

“6. This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. 7. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8. And it is the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.”

This was replaced with what came to be called the Comma Johanneum Addition.

6: This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7: For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8: And there are three that bear witness in Earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

As one can see there is no chance that this is simply a different translation, but rather a removal of the scriptures and an insertion of a known theological statement for an intended purpose. Of course and again, there is no question that the Trinity exists, just that the Bible does not support the commonly explained formula or description of it. And this is the larger problem, if everybody changes the scriptures to what they believe, then we do not get an accurate reading of the Word of God, but instead a denominational sermon of beliefs. The Comma Johanneum Addition is a good illustration of the frustration that some had with trying to promote their beliefs and to what extent they would go to, to promote their beliefs above and over the Bible. This is not a unique observation but rather the opinion of many scholars and most of the well known reference material explains the Trinity as more of a doctrine than a biblical teaching.

 

[face2face]

That Jesus had a Spirit that lived in the afterlife for 3 days prior to the resurrection has nothing to do with the Trinity, why do you think there was an earthquake and dead people arose and were seen by many?

Ah that old chestnut! You believe in the immortality of the soul! Another Greek import lol

 

[Grailhunter]

Absolutely, for i am the planting of the LORD for His display and pleasure!!!

But you are planting stinkhorn mushrooms.

 

[ElieG12]

Will topics that were closed because the subject was being discussed be reopened to continue the threads?

Several topics I opened were closed for that reason.

 

[RLT63]

You're quite amusing, David. I believe @RLT63 showed integrity when he acknowledged that the case was valid and also admitted that he was lackluster in presenting his argument, as he merely copied and pasted verses without demonstrating a deeper understanding. Everything is open to His Eyes.

F2F

I didn't feel the need to argue because the scripture is clear.
I said you make a good case but I disagree.
If you think that I feel the need to prove something to you then you are mistaken

 

[RLT63]

Ah that old chestnut! You believe in the immortality of the soul! Another Greek import lol

I suppose those people who rose from the dead were just zombies then?

 

[face2face]

I didn't feel the need to argue because the scripture is clear.
I said you make a good case but I disagree.
If you think that I feel the need to prove something to you then you are mistaken

No, you simply copied and pasted text without offering any explanation, possibly because you're unable to provide an answer, which is quite telling. I believe that if you revisited that section, you'd likely avoid the inferences you made.

Now that you have witnessed "a good case", you are less likely to misrepresent that text again...you might well move on to other text but thats for another day ;)

F2F

 

[face2face]

I suppose those people who rose from the dead were just zombies then?

God can raise Whom He Wills...they returned to the grave though...you should know that much!

 

[ElieG12]

From today!


Let’s start discussing.

Father/ Son / Holy Spirit...all 3 are one...Amen or not Amen?

Will topics that were closed because the subject was being discussed be reopened to continue the threads?

Several topics I opened or was debating on the last thread were closed for that reason. For example this one GOD in the OT and GOD in the NT

 

[RLT63]

Ah that old chestnut! You believe in the immortality of the soul! Another Greek import lol

Mat 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body,but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1Th 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul andbody be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[RLT63]

God can raise Whom He Wills...they returned to the grave though...you should know that much!

Chapter and verse?

 

[face2face]

Mat 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body,but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1Th 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul andbody be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is this a habit of yours RLT? Can you explain what you think this means?

 

[face2face]

Chapter and verse?

No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. John 3:13

Maybe your raised ones are still roaming the earth

 

[face2face]

@RLT63 only one man has been raised to Eternal Life!

 

[RLT63]

Is this a habit of yours RLT? Can you explain what you think this means?

Can you not read the verses for yourself? What do I need to explain?
Someone can kill you but not your soul, only God can destroy the soul, what does that say to you about your soul?
JWs say a soul just means a person but these verses say otherwise.
I think you could understand the verses without my commentary