Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?

[Wrangler]

Psalm 110:1 -> “Yahweh says to my lord“ or “Yahweh says to my Lord”?

Let’s ignore for a minute that the correct Hebrew word is adoni and substitute for it the incorrect Hebrew word Adonai. Adonai is the title that is reserved for God (449 times). What would the phrase look like in English when we do this? -

“Yahweh says to my [Yahweh].”

A nonsensical phrase.

What if we propose that “Yahweh” and ”Jesus“ are identical personal names: “Yahweh” = “Jesus”. Now what does the phrase look like? -

“[Jesus] says to my [Jesus].”

Another nonsensical phrase.

The only motive to accept such nonsense is IDOLATRY. Sad how common accepting this nonsense is in Christiandom.

 

[Wrangler]

Your problem is you assume I dont get something and I lecture me on what you think I dont get and then proceed to tell me what I already know. In otherwords I had to hold myself back to responding, "Duh" to just about every lecture. You like to talk and put yourself out there as a teacher, but your quick to speak and slow to listen to where someone is coming from. Then your posts are HUGE with all sorts of presumptions in them beating down arguments I never made all over the place and you really cannot be conversed with

You’re not the first to rebuke her MO.

Thought you were doing it on purpose, but apparently this is your way unfortunately

It’s the JW way.

 

[Verily]

It’s the JW way.

Thanks for the heads up

 

[Behold]

The ban is relatively recent. Catholics have been posting here long before it went into effect.

A few years., it would seem.

Just send people to the Catholic Church. They’ve been explaining longer than anyone.

They've been explaining it for longer then anyone, yet a Catholic (breadoflife) just replied that its a mystery that no person can understand.

So, they confuse, but yes they've been at it a while.

Again, just see the Catholic Church teaching on the Trinity, which is widely available elsewhere for anyone interested in learning about it.

The CC created the Teaching that causes the confusion., because its obtuse and lost in a fog of historical verbiage.

I don’t mind you venting but there’s nothing I can do about it. I’ve spoken out publicly and privately against the policy, to no avail.

Strife causes angry carnality to emerge.
Like coal added toi fire.. like wood added to fire...
If you want to stop the hatred on a Forum, you simply BAN certain topics that are the ones that the same people show up to fight about, all the time.

I feel sorry for trinitarians that there is a policy prohibiting discussion of their deity but I’m fine with not hearing about it.

I enjoy discussing the topic, until the discussion turns into..>>>"well, if you dont believe it, you can't stay saved, or be saved".

So at that point, it becomes ridiculous.

This Topic is not required to be believed, ... Its not related to Salvation.. Its a Theological topic, not a Soteriology topic.

 

[Matthias]

A few years., it would seem.



They've been explaining it for longer then anyone, yet a Catholic (breadoflife) just replied that its a mystery that no person can understand.

So, they confuse, but yes they've been at it a while.



The CC created the Teaching that causes the confusion., because its obtuse and lost in a fog of historical verbiage.



Strife causes angry carnality to emerge.
Like coal added toi fire.. like wood added to fire...
If you want to stop the hatred on a Forum, you simply BAN certain topics that are the ones that the same people show up to fight about, all the time.



I enjoy discussing the topic, until the discussion turns into..>>>"well, if you dont believe it, you can't stay saved, or be saved".

So at that point, it becomes ridiculous.

This Topic is not required to be believed, ... Its not related to Salvation.. Its a Theological topic, not a Soteriology topic.

If it’s any consolation to you, you and I have discussed your novel teaching about the Trinity on another forum and I still remember it.

You’re standing up against orthodoxy and that makes you a heretic in the eyes of the orthodox. If we were having this conversation 400 years ago you would be burned at the stake next to mine.

 

[Matthias]

I don’t know who needs to hear this but : If it’s not orthodox, it’s heresy.

 

[Behold]

If it’s any consolation to you, you and I have discussed your novel teaching about the Trinity on another forum and I still remember it.

You’re standing up against orthodoxy and that makes you a heretic in the eyes of the orthodox. If we were having this conversation 400 years ago you would be burned at the stake next to mine.

Actually, the John 1 Doctrine that we are discussing is probably the only place the CC and what i teach can find common ground.

Other then that... i am not a fan of "the cult of Mary". as a Theology.
I do love many Catholics.

What i teach are verses that deal with this topic, that are not what the CC uses.
This is why their teaching is obtuse.....foggy... unclear... its the verses they use.

The CC is unable to recognize the Bible, as the final authority, because they are a man made institution that elevates "church fathers", as the ONLY Authority and the Bible is ... "useful to build from... regarding whatever we want to create next, as our latest theology, we make up"/.

For example.

"perpetual virgin"... this is literally lifted from Paganism, ... its a Goddess Diana rip off... retool... into "Maryism"., complete with "perpetual virgin" and "queen of Heaven" as that is what DIANA The Goddess was titled, before Mary was alive.

or... "Mary's Ascension".. Its the same box of tricks.....>You have the "church fathers".. creating this illusion., by saying.. "well, its not in the bible.........but, we only use the bible to build our doctine that is Catholic".
Whereas if they tried to find... "Dead Mary, flew to heaven".. (Ascension), in a Bible, then they might as well take the Pope fishing, as its not in the NT.
In fact, none of the Apostles really consider Mary......... she is not a huge dividend ....... And Paul who wrote most of the Epistles...... Has the least to say about her.

So, what the CC has taught RELIGION for 1500 yrs obo, is that when you want to make it man made and fancy and prolific.., then "omit the NT", for the most part.... and build your Religion using "church fathers concepts".

 

[Matthias]

What i teach are verses that deal with this topic, that are not what the CC uses.
This is why their teaching is obtuse.....foggy... unclear... its the verses they use.

The CC is unable to recognize the Bible, as the final authority, because they are a man made institution that elevates "church fathers", as the ONLY Authority and the Bible is ... "useful to build from... regarding whatever we want to create next, as our latest theology, we make up"/.

For example.

"perpetual virgin"... this is literally lifted from Paganism, ... its a Goddess Diana rip off... retool... into "Maryism"., complete with "perpetual virgin" and "queen of Heaven" as that is what DIANA The Goddess was titled, before Mary was alive.

or... "Mary's Ascension".. Its the same box of tricks.....>You have the "church fathers".. creating this illusion., by saying.. "well, its not in the bible.........but, we only use the bible to build our doctine that is Catholic".
Whereas if they tried to find... "Dead Mary, flew to heaven".. (Ascension), in a Bible, then they might as well take the Pope fishing, as its not in the NT.
In fact, none of the Apostles really consider Mary......... she is not a huge dividend ....... And Paul who wrote most of the Epistles...... Has the least to say about her.

So, what the CC has taught RELIGION for 1500 yrs obo, is that when you want to make it man made and fancy and prolific.., then "omit the NT", for the most part.... and build your Religion using "church fathers".

No one does the Trinity better than the Catholic Church.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What

I don’t know who needs to hear this but : If it’s not orthodox, it’s heresy.

And usually those pointing the fingers and crying “heresy” are themselves the biggest heretics. Wasn’t that the case in Jesus’ day? It wasn’t the majority of Jews who accepted Jesus as the Christ, but only a small minority who took his message to heart. The majority believed their religious leaders and ended up losing their place in God’s arrangement.....their place in the Kingdom was taken by Gentiles, whom they despised.

 

[RedFan]

No, you're not.
Unfortunately, YOU believe that God is not only simple - but a simpleton.

And arrogant as you may be - the Trinity IS a mystery that cannot be fully understood by limited human thinking.

Once again -- I never claimed to have solved that mystery. We share that disability. We just look at the mystery differently. Much as we do on the subject of worshiping Mary.

 

[Verily]

Jesus is MY "Ever Virgin"
His Ever Virgin-ness is where
the rubber meets the road on things.
If he were not, then he would be a sinner
and no longer our salvation. Big stakes.

On the otherhand, as far as Mary goes,
her virginity, after the birth of Jesus Christ
means almost nothing in the scheme of things.

I never understood why its defended as it is, or
the importance of it, I missed that memo.

 

[Behold]

No one does the Trinity better than the Catholic Church.

Thank you for your opinion.
I'll keep it in mind.

The one thing that the "cult of mary" can do better then all other man made religions... is.... their : Theatrical Presentation.

They have perfected "Religious Opera" as a Church service.

They also build the most beautiful religious structures.......without compare.

 

[Matthias]

Thank you for your opinion.
I'll keep it in mind.

We’re keeping each other’s opinion in mind.

The CC teaching on the Trinity is the yardstick for what passes as orthodoxy in Nicene Christianity.

The one thing that the "cult of mary" can do better then all other man made religions... is.... their : Theatrical Presentation.

They have perfected "Religious Opera" as a Church service.

They also build the most beautiful religious structures.......without compare.

I don’t disagree but it has nothing to do with the Messiah’s God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Once again -- I never claimed to have solved that mystery. We share that disability. We just look at the mystery differently. Much as we do on the subject of worshiping Mary.

Ahhh, yes - the old strategy of vomiting out tired old anti-Catholic falsehoods when the conversation isn't goig your way. That's okay - you're not the first . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The 3>1 is not really a mystery.. its just a misunderstood situation, because the opposition against it, is Legion.

I understand it, but im not allowed to explain it on this Forum. (again).
Its mystical, but its not a mystery.

No, you don’t.

You can “map it” out rudimentarily – but you can’t fully grasp it with your limited human mind.

Just like you cannot fully grasp the concept of eternity as it pertains to God’s existence. You can only come to logical terms with portions of the nature of God – but not ALL of it.

That is the very definition of a mystery.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus is MY "Ever Virgin"
His Ever Virgin-ness is where
the rubber meets the road on things.
If he were not, then he would be a sinner
and no longer our salvation. Big stakes.

On the otherhand, as far as Mary goes,
her virginity, after the birth of Jesus Christ
means almost nothing in the scheme of things.

I never understood why its defended as it is, or
the importance of it, I missed that memo.

When you look at the types and shadows and fulfillments in Scripoture, it’s easier to understand Mary’s role.

Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.
The Ark carried the sacred sumbols of God's power and Law.
Mary, the New Ark carried God Himself. And, whereas, the Ark was to remain untouched by man, lest they defile it.

The following verses illustrate Biblical reality:
OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

 

[Behold]

We’re keeping each other’s opinion in mind.

That's your opinion.

The CC teaching on the Trinity is the yardstick for what passes as orthodoxy in Nicene Christianity.

Well, its certainly heading in the right direction.

 

[Behold]

No, you don’t.

But i do.

 

[Matthias]

That's your opinion.

You said yourself that you would keep my opinion in mind. I told you that I’m keeping your opinion in mind. The only way your comment makes any sense at all is if you didn’t tell me the truth about keeping my opinion in mind.

Well, its certainly heading in the right direction.

I’ve previously pointed out that you aren’t a Nicene Christian. I don’t think you’ll be able to bring them around to your unorthodox (heretical) way of thinking.

P.S.

Even though you don’t align with the Board’s statement of faith, Board policy doesn’t prevent you from self-identifying as a Christian. Something to keep in mind as we lament the Board policy prohibiting discussion of the Trinity.

P.P.S.

Your teaching does have an advantage over the Nicene teaching, imo, in that yours doesn’t make believing your teaching (or theirs) a salvation issue whereas theirs makes it a salvation issue. That’s another important distinction that readers should keep in mind.

 

[RedFan]

When you look at the types and shadows and fulfillments in Scripoture, it’s easier to understand Mary’s role.

Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.
The Ark carried the sacred sumbols of God's power and Law.
Mary, the New Ark carried God Himself. And, whereas, the Ark was to remain untouched by man, lest they defile it.

The following verses illustrate Biblical reality:
OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

Is this why you worship (sorry, why you "venerate") Mary?