Its not you personally sorry, its just the kind of back and forth that is not my preference, all the dissections, I lose interest in that, I do not find that stimmulating but I know some do. I should have clarified.
Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?
- Thread starter NotTheRock
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Mary gave birth to Jesus.
What would you say is the name of the Creator of the Universe?
”The God who made the universe and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth.“
(Acts 17:24, GW)
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
There is a lot to respond to so I’ll do my best…..
The greatest enemy of truth did not come from outside, but from within. (Acts 20:29-30)
But gaining an understanding of original language words and how they are translated in other passages is a good place to start….Strongs is good for that.
It’s also good to compare translations to see who got their ideas from whom….and passed them on.
By what we accept as truth, we determine our own future.
Jesus’ own words tell us that his true disciples would be “hated” for all the same reasons as he was (John 15:18-21)…..the devil has no new tricks because the old ones still work so well for him. Opposition is a great weapon, as is fear.
It is an act of love to take an unpopular message out to a hostile audience in the hope of finding a “lost sheep”. Those deeply ingrained in the religious system of Christendom, (no matter the denomination) don’t believe they need saving and will offer their excuses to Jesus when he comes to make an accounting. As if Jesus has somehow made a mistake. (Matt 7:21-23)
We all have the propensity to evaluate knowledge, but it’s usually based on gleaning information from others who are in turn taught by those who have learned before them. It’s an endless cycle of students becoming teachers….but what if early teachers departed from the knowledge they gained and passed on their own ideas instead……gradually over time, the original teaching will be lost. In some areas that is a good thing as knowledge increases and it’s implementation is beneficial, but because the Bible is the word of God, and it was necessary to translate it into many different languages, the translators had to be vigilant so as to accurately convey the meaning of the things written. But like the Jews before them, they became part of a corrupted religious system, more intent on promoting the teachings and traditions of men than of God. (Matt 15:7-9) Isn’t this what Jesus and his apostles foretold?
The greatest enemy of truth did not come from outside, but from within. (Acts 20:29-30)
This is true, or we would have no hope of making our way through the mire of conflicting beliefs….
But gaining an understanding of original language words and how they are translated in other passages is a good place to start….Strongs is good for that.
It’s also good to compare translations to see who got their ideas from whom….and passed them on.
Jesus himself said this would be the case (Matt 7:13-14)….just as it was with the Jews….God’s ancient prophets foretold that only a “remnant” of the fleshly Jews would be saved (Rom 9:27)…..why? Because the majority believed what their errant teachers told them about Jesus. When Jesus came, the majority of his own nation rejected him as Messiah on the say-so of the religious leaders who were jealous of his miracles and his influence on huge audiences….not to mention the fact that he exposed them as the real heretics at every opportunity. History was to repeat in connection with Christ’s return. (Matt 7:21-23) Those who identify as “Christians” but who fail to accept what he taught as truth, will be on the receiving end of his unalterable rejection as those he “never knew”.
By what we accept as truth, we determine our own future.
I would challenge that assertion with many scriptures. Jesus can be “divine“ as a product of his Father’s spirit, but “divinity” does not necessarily equal “deity”. If human judges in Israel can be called “theos” (gods) by Yahweh himself, then there is the Scriptural precedent for reading John 1:1 correctly. If the divine name had still been retained by the Jews, this error could never have been taught. The apostles knew and taught this one truth. (1 Cor 8:5-6) There is “one God, the Father”…..and “one Lord Jesus Christ”. Like so many other references, the third ‘person’ is missing in this statement. (Like John 17:3)
No, I am simply a believer in what the Bible teaches, and as one raised in Christendom, I am well aware of what is taught in that disunited excuse for “Christianity”….God’s spirit unites his worshippers, it does not divide them and pretend that it doesn’t matter. (1 Cor 1:10)
This was the same test of faith as the early Christians faced in the first century. Would the hatred of their fellow Jews and even pressure from family members cause them to compromise on the truth that Jesus taught, as opposed to the religious traditions proffered by the religious leaders of the day?
Jesus’ own words tell us that his true disciples would be “hated” for all the same reasons as he was (John 15:18-21)…..the devil has no new tricks because the old ones still work so well for him. Opposition is a great weapon, as is fear.
It is an act of love to take an unpopular message out to a hostile audience in the hope of finding a “lost sheep”. Those deeply ingrained in the religious system of Christendom, (no matter the denomination) don’t believe they need saving and will offer their excuses to Jesus when he comes to make an accounting. As if Jesus has somehow made a mistake. (Matt 7:21-23)
Last edited:
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Being “no part of the world” means exactly what Jesus said…his kingdom is not brought about by any rule of men. In fact all human rulership, no matter what it calls itself, is going to be crushed out of existence by the God that Christendom and those of other religious systems, claim to serve. (Dan 2:44) Daniel foretold it and we are living in “the time of the end”……a time when Christ was to return and gather his elect and judge mankind as to fitness for life or death...ushering in the rule of his Kingdom, bringing all redeemed mankind back into reconciliation with God. (Matt 6:9-1; Rev 21:2-4)
That makes me smile…..no society founded on unlawful theft and bloodshed will have any part in the rule of God’s Kingdom’s on earth. (Isa 1:15) All earthly governments will be eliminated because they are all under the control of the devil. (Daniel 2:44; 1 John 5:19; Luke 4: 5-7) In all of human history, man’s rule has failed to bring mankind any real peace or security. Isn’t that obvious? (1 John 5:19) It’s not parts of the world…but “the whole world”…including my country and yours, that are under his control….no matter who you vote into government or what hopes you have for man-made peace and security, nothing will succeed….nothing ever has.
What does “The Word” mean as a title? In Greek it is “logos” so please look this word up in your favorite concordance and tell us what it says…..?
What did this title make Jesus?
Since Col 1:15 states that Jesus is “the firstborn of ALL creation”, he existed before all things, but not before the one who ‘begat’ him. He is an “only begotten son” but not the only “son of God”. All “begotten” children need a ‘begetter’ who existed before them, and who caused their birth. Jesus did not become “only begotten” at his human birth, he was always God’s “only begotten son”. “The beginning of God’s creation”. (Rev 3:14)
I mean any outside source that ended up gradually influencing the ones taught by the apostles. The apostles themselves warned about the ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’ that would infiltrate the Christian congregations and influence the disciples by teaching all manner of beliefs adopted from those who were worshippers of other gods. Would you like a list of those unscriptural adoptions? None of them are recent additions.
I trust Jesus who told us that at the time of his return, he would appoint a “faithful and discreet slave” to “feed” his entire household of fellow slaves.…not physical food, but spiritual food. (Matt 24:45)
What is interesting, is that Jesus framed their identity in a question….he said…
”Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?”
So this slave exists and only God can lead a person to them. (John 6:44: 65) There are only two tables at which to feed in this world….God’s and the devil’s. (1 Cor 10:21)
Those who choose to feed at the devil’s table will never be satisfied with the truth but will seek ways to embellish the dishes to make it more palatable for themselves.
The big three is not only Christendom beliefs, but every false religion on earth has these as their foundational beliefs….in some form or another. However, as professed worshippers of the true God, he will hold Christendom more accountable.
What three?
1) A multiplicity of gods in direct defiance of the Jewish Shema (Deut 6:4) and the first Commandment, (Ex 20:3) but going even further by making religious images to use in their worship breaking the second Commandment. (Ex 20:4-5) Forcing three gods into one is simply disguised polytheism. The Jews knew no such god….and the Jewish Jesus never mentioned him.
2) Belief in the existence of immortal souls that leave the mortal body at death and go on to a conscious existence in other places.
Most believe in a heavenly reward…a destination for the good people, but a a bad place for the wicked.
There is no mention of an immortal soul anywhere in the Bible, but it was adopted from Greek notions and it appealed to mankind who were not programmed for death but who instead adopted the devil’s first lie as their truth….’humans don’t really die…they go on living somewhere else, conscious and active’, supposedly. Yet this is quite the opposite to what Jews were taught in their Scripture.
Death is the opposite of life, (Eccl 9:5, 10) not a continuation of it somewhere else. There was never a “heaven or hell” scenario ever taught to the original Jews, but this idea permeates all false religions in some way. He devil is very persuasive in his lies…no one wants to die.
3) The existence of a fiery “hell” as the destination for those whom God sends to this place of eternal flames to torture these ones in agony for all eternity. They have no opportunity to repent or to ever receive forgiveness. Does this sound remotely like the loving God whom Christ represented to his disciples? The one who portrayed his Father as a caring shepherd intent on finding every lost sheep?
What is this “hell” that they speak of in Christendom? Some seem to relish it. It is a mixture of several words and ideas, (hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, the lake of fire) none of which resemble anything taught by Jesus Christ.
“Hades” is the Greek word translated from “Sheol” in Hebrew….and the Tanakh translates “Sheol” as “the grave”… a place where all the dead end up.…no exceptions. Those in Sheol are not capable of thoughts or activities, (Eccl 9:5,6,10) they are “sleeping“ unaware of anything going on “under the sun” in this world.
“Gehenna” was Jerusalem’s garbage dump, so anyone thrown into Gehenna was considered human garbage and barred from any place in God’s kingdom. No living thing was ever cast there.
The “lake of fire” is another expression for “gehenna” because fires were kept burning day and night by the addition of brimstone (sulfur) to consume the refuse. What the flames missed, the maggots finished off. (The fire is never extinguished and the worm never dies) It was never a literal place but a symbol of eternal death. No one comes out of Gehenna.…it is the “second death”…a permanent death from which there is no resurrection.
When Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead, where did he say he was? (John 11: 11-14)
If Lazarus had gone to heaven, then why bring him back to this life only to die again later from some other cause? Did Jesus do his friend any favors by restoring his life? Why did he not go to his friend to heal him when he had time to do so? Can you tell me?
I have no idea how this relates to anything…..what does it mean if I say it to you? Does it mean something different if you say it to me?
Last edited:
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I did, but the lack of understanding is not on my part….I cannot force you to believe me…..Jesus didn’t force anyone either. It’s up to you to accept or reject the message, just as it is with me. Jesus will tell us all soon enough if we have got it right….or not. (Matt 7:21-23)
As you wish….I have been a teacher for most of my life, so I probably sound like one every now and then….Perhaps God will leave you to yourself as well…..we will all stand or fall by what we personally accept as truth….do you think God plays no part in that? (2 Thess 2:9-12)
Your problem is you assume I dont get something and I lecture me on what you think I dont get and then proceed to tell me what I already know. In otherwords I had to hold myself back to responding, "Duh" to just about every lecture. You like to talk and put yourself out there as a teacher, but your quick to speak and slow to listen to where someone is coming from. Then your posts are HUGE with all sorts of presumptions in them beating down arguments I never made all over the place and you really cannot be conversed with. I quote a verse with Jesus and the Father and you start laughing saying, I cannot believe you cannot see they are two and not one. And all I can do is slap my forehead and think, how on earth does she get I cannot see this I just quoted the most obvious verse underlining it (so as to accentuate it).
Your'e fustrating to talk to because you talk over people, you miss the points, you assume I dont get something and try to spell out what I already know (after all I am quoting the verses you try and explain to me as if I missed something). Its very weird never ran into someone who did anything like it.
Thought you were doing it on purpose, but apparently this is your way unfortunately, God help your students if you try and teach them in the same way you are trying with me.
Gotcha, I did not put on some show of understanding of what was in each verse (eye roll)
No
Do I pretend most of Israel got it wrong and that after Christ there would be an apostasy? No why would I?
No, really?
Sarah called Abraham "Lord" ('adown) in Genesis 18:12 who cares how the Greek translates "Lord" since Kyrios its used for just about every word "Lord" in the NT, including Jehovah and 'adown. Means absolutely nothing there. I was equating the word "the Lord" ('adown) as the definition of it in the Hebrew can be the same as is shown in how Jesus used it in John 13:13 and then in turn with Psalm 110:1 Lord ('adown) which is the same word used by Sarah adressing Abraham. But I dont take these crazy lengths to get there.
Yeah, duh again, I dont need to reread what I posted again, I know what it says. I underlined it I think if I accentuated these things I can see that, in fact I am trying to make it obvious, but apparently you are missing these things over and over and over which makes conversing with you incredibly laboursome, and I honestly hate the word duh, but your driving me to it.
Duh da duh duh. This is what I mean, you take the verses I post and tell me what I already know.
I stated God made him Lord and Christ, why are you telling me what I already know having posted just this?
No, I didn't think Jesus had an Eternal Grandfather (on His Father's side)
Jesus being the only begotten of the Father is somewhat elemental
Yeah I really can, but unfortunately you can't see that I see that.
You are really not telling me anything I do not know
I think you need to reread that again, I am the one that posted the verse and accentuated that very point.
Hello?
.
Refrains from saying, duh
The Son is adressed as God, make of it what you will
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Taken from here,
Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Psalm 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Who is he speaking to? The S-o-n
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever
Who is he that saith?
Psalm 45:7.... God, THY God, (He who anointed him)
But unto US there is one God, even the Father AND one Lord Jesus Christ, because THAT is what God made him (both Lord and Christ) Acts 2:36
God also made Jesus a high priest, Try Heb 5:5
Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified **NOT himself** to be made an high priest; **but HE** that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Yes, pretty elemental
Yes, 1 Cr 11:3 The head of Christ is God
Duh again, I stated that much.
Gosh, how did I know this?
No, but I bet you are going to tell me
Ok
ok
My last post to you, I spent the time on this one post to leave an example as to why I will not converse with you (because I need to "duh" my way through the back and forths).
Gregory of Nazianzus is as relevant to the average Nicene Christian today as yesterday’s newspaper is to the bottom of a bird’s cage.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Perhaps a little more information and commentary on the verses you quoted may have altered my responses, freeing you from the “duh” syndrome. (eye roll) And perhaps the “duh” response was triggered in me because your position was unclear. Ambiguity answers nothing.
Underlining parts of verses doesn’t always convey your meaning in a forum with multiple takes on what particular verses of Scripture mean. Be specific and you might have saved yourself the time and energy it took to defend yourself.
I can see why you spent so much time having to clear up your position. If you had done that in the first place, it would have saved me some time and effort and all those “duh’s” you had to endure…..yet nothing is wasted on these boards, because there are more readers here than posters. These exchanges are not private nor just between two individuals at odds with each other.…..the readers themselves will evaluate the responses for themselves.
My last post to you……
And to the readers, "Duh" is not something that any of us should be using, and in this conversation (or the lack thereof and contstant lecturing at my post using just scripture) I certainly felt driven to use it . "Duh, that is what it says" just worked for me here. It was especially helpful when trying to post my reply (in answering the endless lectures between each verse) I got the dreaded " You have used too many characters" in order to post my reply. And so I had to use a considerable amount of time in the AM hours deleting a little better responses to all that nonsense (and so brought in a little of my own). There is no need to explain myself to death on PURE SCRIPTURE (AS IF I need to give any more than what was obvious IN IT). "Duh" just fit in perfectly given it was such a "no duh" situation. "Duh" also helped me reduce the number of characters I had going on in order to click "post reply" (and it also helped to satisfy the limitation of my patience at 4 AM).
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,657
- 3,592
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
No, you're not.
Unfortunately, YOU believe that God is not only simple - but a simpleton.
And arrogant as you may be - the Trinity IS a mystery that cannot be fully understood by limited human thinking.
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,657
- 3,592
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
And YOU harm all of Christendom when you misprepresnt a Church that you don't belong to by spewing lies about it.
And perhaps, YOU'LL be forced to give san account for all of those lies and falsehoods about His Church that I've had to correct you on.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Now, I can just leave that there as a sign of your repentance over your deplorable behavior….
Damage control can be a painful thing I know. LOL
I thought so too….just not the way you did…..
Last edited:
Behold
Well-Known Member
The 3>1 is not really a mystery.. its just a misunderstood situation, because the opposition against it, is Legion.
I understand it, but im not allowed to explain it on this Forum. (again).
Its mystical, but its not a mystery.
I am not repentant for answering you the way I did. I do not know where the damage is, or even why I would seek to control it, I missed, your ego is still in tact.Now, I can just leave that there as a sign of your repentance over your deplorable behavior….
Behold
Well-Known Member
Not on this forum., have they explained it.... as that will get you banned.
That is what i was explaining.
I have a teaching on it, that is CLEAR, but, this particular forum, that allows anything to park and preach, does not allow the arguing about the Trinity.
That is interesting.
This forum will allow someone to hate the Bible, in 50 Threads they wrote to hate it.... and that is "OK". but "No Trinity Here"
I wish they would end the discussing of... "pre-destined Elect" and "OSAS".......but not "Discussions about the Trinity".
Last edited:
The ban is relatively recent. Catholics have been posting here long before it went into effect.
Just send people to the Catholic Church. They’ve been explaining longer than anyone.
Again, just see the Catholic Church teaching on the Trinity, which is widely available elsewhere for anyone interested in learning about it.
I don’t mind you venting but there’s nothing I can do about it. I’ve spoken out publicly and privately against the policy, to no avail.
I feel sorry for trinitarians that there is a policy prohibiting discussion of their deity but I’m fine with not hearing about it.
Similar threads
