Were Jesus's brothers born of another woman?
- Thread starter NotTheRock
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
This is a helpful explanation but, if we are going to be true to the Hebrew language, we should regard LORD as the Father and the lord (not Lord) as Jesus Christ.
Yeah but I am not a Hebrew expert and I am not changing big letters and small letters to please word nuts, its just not going to happen. Would take too much effort to converse with such folks and I dont have the time to pee away.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Nay, thou hast thy "thys" bass-ackwards. The "thy" in verse 5 shouldest have a capital "T", for it referreth to YHWH, who still hath adoni Messiah at His right hand.
Last edited:
That's the exact point I made....Jesus is at the right hand of God Father in verse 5.....
^This^ I think I liked a couple of posts I actually disagreed with, but thats how I am seeing this.
Its far easier for me to get it faster when just replacing the "who is who's" as I am seeing between the Father
and Son
Psalm 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD (Father) said unto my Lord (Jesus), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Speaking of the Son of man and Son of God
Psalm 110:4 The LORD (Father) hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou (Jesus) art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Psalm 110:5 The Lord (Jesus) at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
But then we have mention of David saying,
Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord (?) always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved
Found in Psalm 16:8
Psalm 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
And would be speaking of the Father there
Depends on the version M.
LORD GOD FATHER
Lord Jesus
I don't see any lord.....to me that would mean any person that could be addressed as lord....
a master, for instance.
Agreed. I maintain that the translators did a good job of translating....
otherwise we'd have to know at least 3 languages to read the bible correctly.
I do believe I should leave this part of this thread.
I got brain freeze quite a few posts ago!
I don't argue with that specifically, or that this is not true, it says this which is why I brought this forth but I am not seeing how that is speaking the same thing in Psalm 110:5 but in Psalm 16:8
Lambano
Well-Known Member
The convention to use "LORD" (all caps, even if they're half-size caps like this) is helpful in identifying whether the Hebrew word being translated was the sacred name YHWH or just "adonai".
The capitalization of "lord" when translating "adonai" has several factors:
- Is it at the beginning of a sentence? (Duh!)
- If you're translating Kurios from the New Testament, you have to decide from context whether they are referring to God (which is clear if the author quoting the LXX translation of the Hebrew scriptures not always so clear otherwise), or some other person. The "LORD" convention is not used in most NT translations, but I did run across one exception.
- If "Lord" is used as a form of address in place of the person's proper name, it is acceptable in English to capitalize it, as in 'Hey, Lord, where are you going?"
- Some people (me included) capitalize titles and pronouns referring to Jesus, such as "Lord", "Messiah"/"Christ", and "Him" out of respect. This is especially true when using the title in place of His proper name, e.g. "Oh, Lord, where are You going?" Is that respect proper or improper? This gets back to the question of whether it is proper to perform proskuneo before Jesus when we do not and should not before any other man.
Last edited:
Agreed. I was just making an observation.
Be back when you guys have it figured out....
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Thank you, @GodsGrace. Not only is the Catholic viewpoint valuable, but I was also surprised to see just how much diversity of opinion there is as to what "emptied himself" means.Thanks Lambano!
This is from the New Advent Encyclopedia, in case you're interested.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Kenosis
A term derived from the discussion as to the real meaning of Phil. 2:6www.newadvent.org
Why do THEY misunderstand the bible and not YOU??
Maybe YOU misunderstand the bible.
HOW do we evaluate if any teaching is correct?
No language can be translated exactly.
But our bibles are sufficiently translated to be salvific in nature.
HOW were YOU taught Aunty Jane?
Was by a human type person or did you sit alone in a room and read and study all by yourself with no help from another human?
Are you sure that human taught you the TRUTH?
HOW can you know for sure?
Interesting. So the MAJORITY that seems to think they understand the bible are wrong.
But the MINORITY that seems to think they understand the bible are correct.
And I agree that a label does not make you one.
Like, for instance, JWs claim to be Christian....
but they don't believe Jesus is God.....
which is a necessary belief in order to be defined as CHRISTian....
So you're calvinist?
God must intercede because man is unable to find God on his own?
Again, HOW does a person evaluate what is being taught?
Are we each our own little church?
As to obedience....agreed. That most definitely has to be a result of our conversion/transformation.
If there's no change.....chances re we didn't understand something about Christianity.
(although some may go slower than others).
Yes...we should be different.
But hated?
How do we get anyone to listen to us if we're hated?
Jesus said to love everyone...
Love begets love.
When Jesus said we would be hated....he meant that we would not be able to agree with the world view,
and would be on the fringe of secular societies.
Luckily, some societies are founded on Christian values and maybe we can get back to them somewhat now after this election.
Agreed.
Strong's is a TERRIBLE resource for really knowing the Greek.
It barely scratches the surface.
I would rather just trust the translators UNLESS a really important study is being done...
then it would be a good idea to trust someone that knows Koine Greek.
We're not reading more because there's not only one verse regarding the topic you bring up CONSTANTLY.
True. But it's not the ONLY way it was used....
And Thomas said MY GOD besides saying my Lord.
Oh my gosh. This is what THE WORD means to you?
And you use Strong's??
See, I was right.
Dig a little deeper.
Jesus was the FIRST BORN of those that will be saved on earth.....God's EARTHLY children.
He wasn't the first born of God....Did God have other children?
Which outside sources?
You mean those that were taught by the Apostles?
You don't trust THEM either?
But you trust the man that taught you what you know?
Interesting.
I wonder what the 3 false foundational teaching of the CC are. I have no idea.
How come we all study the bible and we don't agree?
Why don't YOU agree with ME?
I'm stating that YOU don't understand scripture but I DO.
(hoping the mods let me do this).
Let's do an experiment:
Tell me what the following sentence means:
I NEVER SAID YOU STOLE MONEY.
I like reading the New Advent Encyclopedia.
And someone like you will really understand it.
You can glean a lot from it.
Catholics seem to go deep into studies....
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
You did…but you still exhibit no understanding of what was said in any of the verses you quoted..
Can we examine those verses in the light of how they were understood by the people to whom they were written?…not by those who came later and changed the meaning of everything that Jesus taught. In their translation, done according to their own erroneous adoptions and interpretation, false beliefs of an apostate church system, became a Christianity that Christ never taught…..just as Jesus and his apostles foretold.…..Do you pretend it never happened?
The “weeds” of Jesus parable were not sown recently. The foretold “apostasy” was beginning even before the apostles died. (2 Thess 2:3-7) Anything written after the first century is not included in the NT canon for a very good reason…it does not belong in Scripture.
The whole of God’s word was written by Jews…..there is not a Catholic author among them.
John 13:13
“You call Me Teacher (didaskalos) and Lord; (kyrios) and you are right, for I am.“ (NASB)
Yes….”GOD made Jesus Lord and Christ”…”Kyrios“ is the English equivalent of “Sir” or “Master”, a title of respect not necessarily of deity. Sarah called Abraham “Lord” (kyrios)…she didn’t think he was God.
And Christ means “anointed one”. Jesus only became “the Christ” when he was baptized in water followed by his anointing with the Holy Spirit.
Original word meanings get lost in the error of translation.
Read it again….who made Jesus Lord (Master) and Christ (anointed one) ? His God did.
How can you make someone what he already was? Or give authority to one who already has it? (Matt 28:18)
Yes, two entirely separate beings.…one is Superior to the other. Look and see that the first “LORD” is in capitals but the second is not. What does that tell you? It tells you that the first “LORD” is Yahweh….the second one is his Messiah, David’s “Lord” who was to come. Not the same “Lord”.
Jesus said “the Father is greater than I am.” Making him “Lord“ to his disciples, did not make him God.
Yes, Jesus has a God and Father…..God does not. Jesus has brothers…..God has sons.
Does God only have one son? The angels are called “sons of God”….but Jesus is his “firstborn” and “only begotten” (monogenes), (Col 1:15) meaning that he is the first and only direct creation of his God and Father. (Rev 3:14) All creation thereafter came via the agency of this firstborn son (Col 1:16-17)…….so the pre-human Jesus had heavenly “brothers”…..but who are Christ’s “brothers” on earth? (Matt 25:31-46)
Yes, and I can’t believe that you can read those words and not see that two entirely separate beings are spoken about. “Jesus is the Christ; the son of the living God.”
Jesus is “the son of God” as he plainly stated himself. Calling the son “theos” in no way makes him deity, as Jesus plainly demonstrated to the Jews who accused him of blasphemy…..he said that his Father called human judges in Israel “gods” (theos) because they had his divine authority. (John 10:31-36)
LOL…read it again….”therefore God thy God hath anointed thee”…..the anointed one has a God.
Jesus called his Father “my God“ four time in just one verse, long after his return to heaven. (Rev 3:12)
Can God have a God, even in heaven? Can God be his own High Priest? (Hebrews 3:1) Can God be his own “servant”? (Acts 3:13)
Yes, there it is in black and white…Jesus is “the Son of the living God”.…”sent” by his Father.
His Father is “head” over him, affirming his superiority as “the Most High over all creation”. (Psalm 83:18)
Elizabeth’s address to Mary as “the mother of my Lord” echoes the words of David in Psalm 110…they speak of the same “Lord” who in prophesy was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. But in Scripture, the LORD Yahweh is not the Lord Jesus.
| 1 Of David a psalm. The word of the Lord to my master; "Wait for My right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool at your feet." | אלְדָוִ֗ד מִ֫זְמ֥וֹר נְאֻ֚ם יְהֹוָ֨ה | לַֽאדֹנִ֗י שֵׁ֥ב לִֽימִינִ֑י עַד־אָשִׁ֥ית אֹֽ֜יְבֶ֗יךָ הֲדֹ֣ם לְרַגְלֶֽיךָ: |
If you refer to the Hebrew you will see the divine name “יְהֹוָ֨ה” is translated “Lord” and that Yahweh is addressing David’s “master”.
יְהֹוָ֨ה (Yahweh) was going to make the enemies of David’s “master”, a stool for his feet.
Without this information what does the Scripture suggest as it is translated in most Bibles?
“The Lord said to my Lord” is meaningless. What “Lord” said what to whom?
Do you never wonder why genderless spirit beings present themselves as Father and Son? It’s a relationship we humans understand because of the way we were created….that is until Christendom’s “god” is mentioned….then it all goes haywire…..the relationship is completely lost.
This is why I reject any notion of Jesus being anything but a “holy servant” of his God and Father, a beloved firstborn son, who willingly laid down his human life to redeem the now defective human race.….inheritors of a terminal affliction called sin, which Christ’s death paid for as their only release from its grip.
Can you tell me how redemption works and how the nation of Israel understood redemption?
It depends on the correct translation of Hebrew to English. Some versions translate it correctly and some translations don’t. NASB is a version that doesn’t. I mentioned in an earlier post that the publisher of the NASB has acknowledged that it doesn’t.
“LORD“ is the standard English rendering of God’s personal name. Yahweh is the personal name of the Father.
“Lord“ is the correct English translation of Adonai. It is a title used in reference to LORD / Yahweh, not Jesus.
“Yahweh says to my lord …” (Psalm 110:1).
That’s the point. Adoni occurs 195 times in the OT, including the critically important Psalm 110:1. I posted a link to translations which translate it properly. Jesus isn’t Yahweh. Yahweh is speaking to Jesus in a prophecy.
“The Apostles did not identify Jesus with Yahweh. Ps. 110:1 prevented this.”
(Charles Bigg, International Critical Commentary, 1 Peter, p. 99.)
The use of adoni in reference to the unnamed person addressed by Yahweh is the reason why they didn’t @GodsGrace.
(Charles Bigg, International Critical Commentary, 1 Peter, p. 99.)
The International Critical Commentary Complete : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
The complete Public Domain commentaries of the International Critical Commentary (ICC)
archive.org
The use of adoni in reference to the unnamed person addressed by Yahweh is the reason why they didn’t @GodsGrace.
Similar threads
