Which Millennium is better? Amil's or Premil's proposed millennium?

[Davidpt]

Let's do some comparing of both. If you think of something else to add, be sure to mention it and I will add it to the OP unless it causes the OP to increase in size to the point it makes it too lengthy to add it to it. The OP is already somewhat lengthy to begin with. Or if you see something that doesn't fit your proposed Millennium, be sure to mention it and I will remove it from the OP if you convincingly argue why it doesn't.

Amil's proposed Millennium first.

People can be saved throughout their proposed Millennium.

People are still being deceived throughout their proposed Millennium. Billions and billions of people, the fact not everyone manages to get saved during their proposed Millennium.

Righteousness is not dwelling throughout the earth during their proposed Millennium. There are crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked lawyers, so on and so on, throughout their proposed Millennium

satan, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour(1 Peter 5:8), during their proposed Millennium.

satan can fill one's heart to lie to the Holy Ghost(Acts 5:3), during their proposed Millennium

satan can take advantage of some since some can be ignorant of his devices(2 Corinthians 2:11), during their proposed Millennium.

satan is transformed into an angel of light(2 Corinthians 11:14), during their proposed Millennium.

satan can hinder someone(1 Thessalonians 2:18), during their proposed Millennium.

That's enough for now. Next Premil's proposed Millennium.

Not one single person on the entire planet is still being deceived during their proposed Millennium. And the reasons why are obvious. There is no one to deceive them during the Millennium. Christ and His bodily immortal saints are ruling and governing the entire planet. satan is the pit, the beast and false prophet are in the LOF.

Righteousness is dwelling throughout the earth during their proposed Millennium. There are no more crooked courts, no more crooked judges, no more crooked lawyers, so on and so on, throughout their proposed Millennium

satan, as a roaring lion, is not walking about, seeking whom he may devour, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't fill anyone's heart to lie to the Holy Ghost during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't take advantage of anyone since no one can be ignorant of his devices, during their proposed Millennium, the fact satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan is not transformed into an angel of light, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't hinder anyone, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

Thus far, based on the above, which Millennium seems to be the better one? The only thing I can see being better about Amil's proposed Millennium is that people can be saved during it. Is that alone enough to make their Millennium the better one? Maybe, maybe not.

We have to factor in that Not once saved always saved, that this is Biblical, regardless that some deny it. How many might fall away over all? Millions, billions perhaps? If so, their proposed Millennium didn't manage to keep everyone still saved in the end, obviously. If Amil views Premil's proposed Millennium as a failure based on satan's little season that follows, why don't they view their proposed Millennium equally as a failure? Could the real reason be that most of them likely deny that NOSAS is Biblical? Thus no failure whatsoever since no one saved ever loses their salvation, right? Only if NOSAS is not Biblical, though. Except it is Biblical, 100% Biblical.

 

[Truth7t7]

Let's do some comparing of both. If you think of something else to add, be sure to mention it and I will add it to the OP unless it causes the OP to increase in size to the point it makes it too lengthy to add it to it. The OP is already somewhat lengthy to begin with. Or if you see something that doesn't fit your proposed Millennium, be sure to mention it and I will remove it from the OP if you convincingly argue why it doesn't.

Amil's proposed Millennium first.

People can be saved throughout their proposed Millennium.

People are still being deceived throughout their proposed Millennium. Billions and billions of people, the fact not everyone manages to get saved during their proposed Millennium.

Righteousness is not dwelling throughout the earth during their proposed Millennium. There are crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked lawyers, so on and so on, throughout their proposed Millennium

satan, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour(1 Peter 5:8), during their proposed Millennium.

satan can fill one's heart to lie to the Holy Ghost during their proposed Millennium(Acts 5:3)

satan can take advantage of some since some can be ignorant of his devices(2 Corinthians 2:11), during their proposed Millennium.

satan is transformed into an angel of light(2 Corinthians 11:14), during their proposed Millennium.

satan can hinder someone(1 Thessalonians 2:18), during their proposed Millennium.

That's enough for now. Next Premil's proposed Millennium.

Not one single person on the entire planet is still being deceived during their proposed Millennium. And the reasons why are obvious. There is no one to deceive them during the Millennium. Christ and His bodily immortal saints are ruling and governing the entire planet. satan is the pit, the beast and false prophet are in the LOF.

Righteousness is dwelling throughout the earth during their proposed Millennium. There are no more crooked courts, no more crooked judges, no more crooked lawyers, so on and so on, throughout their proposed Millennium

satan, as a roaring lion, is not walking about, seeking whom he may devour, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't fill anyone's heart to lie to the Holy Ghost during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't take advantage of anyone since no one can be ignorant of his devices, during their proposed Millennium, the fact satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan is not transformed into an angel of light, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't hinder anyone, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

Thus far, based on the above, which Millennium seems to be the better one? The only thing I can see being better about Amil's proposed Millennium is that people can be saved during it. Is that alone enough to make their Millennium the better one? Maybe, maybe not.

We have to factor in that Not once saved always saved, that this is Biblical, regardless that some deny it. How many might fall away over all? Millions, billions perhaps? If so, their proposed Millennium didn't manage to keep everyone still saved in the end, obviously. If Amil views Premil's proposed Millennium as a failure based on satan's little season that follows, why don't they view their proposed Millennium equally as a failure? Could the real reason be that most of them likely deny that NOSAS is Biblical? Thus no failure whatsoever since no one saved ever loses their salvation, right? Only if NOSAS is not Biblical, though. Except it is Biblical, 100% Biblical.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Davidpt]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The OP has to do with which proposed Millennium seems to be the better one, regardless which proposed Millennium is actually the correct one? For example. Is a Millennium where righteousness is not dwelling throughout the earth, thus crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked lawyers, is better than a Millennium where righteousness is dwelling throughout the earth? Is a Millennium, where satan as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour, is better than a Millennium where he is not doing any of these things? Is a Millennium where billions and billions of people are still being deceived throughout, is better than a Millennium where no one is being deceived throughout?

 

[jeffweeder]

People are saved through faith in Jesus under Amill- Full stop.
Is there any other way?

Heb 11
11 Now faith is the assurance (title deed, confirmation) of things hoped for (divinely guaranteed), and the evidence of things not seen [the conviction of their reality—faith comprehends as fact what cannot be experienced by the physical senses].

2Thess 2
13 But we should and are [morally] obligated [as debtors] always to give thanks to God for you, believers beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through the sanctifying work of the Spirit [that sets you apart for God’s purpose] and by your faith in the truth [of God’s word that leads you to spiritual maturity]. 14 It was to this end that He called you through our gospel [the good news of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection], so that you may obtain and share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those having faith are then glorified at the Lords coming.
Those without faith are dealt with eternally at the Lords coming.

2Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day.


How are people saved post second coming with the Lord and his faithful glorified and seen by the physical senses by those who have formerly had no faith at all at his coming and had rejected the Gospel.?

Billions in your proposed millennium perish despite seeing the Lord and us in all Gods glory.
Billions probably perish under Amill, but at least they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved.

So, you tell me which sounds better.

 

[ewq1938]

The Premill Millennium is peaceful and devoid of satan's deceptions. But the Amill Millennium is a disaster, despite scripture saying satan is bound and imprisoned and unable to deceive anyone, it has satan roaming freely, spreading deception, blocking the gospel, having Christians murdered all over the globe, and the biggest decline of Christianity since Christianity started. That's the truth about today's world, the so-called Amill Millennium. But the reason all those things are happening is because this is NOT the real millennium and satan is not bound or imprisoned or unable to deceive.

The Amill Millennium is hell on earth, but Premill's is fantastic! Not only will Jesus be reigning here on the Earth, there will be resurrected and immortal saints! If that wasn't awesome enough, satan isn't even a part of it! That's 3 things that are WONDERFUL and none of them happen in Amill's Millennium.

 

[ewq1938]

Billions in your proposed millennium perish despite seeing the Lord and us in all Gods glory.
Billions probably perish under Amill, but at least they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved.

LOL, "probably".

That happens DURING Amill's Millennium when Jesus and the saints are supposedly ruling the world!

Not so in Premill's Mill, where none perish or are lost or even get deceived by satan. Any rebellion happens after the Mill ends, not during it! Amill has rebellion DURING and after their MIll but they don't like to admit that fact.

Premill's Millennium is clearly the better, safer, more Christian version of the Mill, hands down. It is also the only one that matches scripture.

 

[Davidpt]

Billions in your proposed millennium perish despite seeing the Lord and us in all Gods glory.

One could argue, and I have argued this before, so what, in light of the following? Initially satan also saw God face to face, saw Him in all of His glory, knew without a doubt He existed and knew without a doubt He created him, but did that prevent satan from rebelling? Of course not unless the Bible has been lying to us this entire time. Obviously, satan's intelligence and knowledge is light years above that of humans intelligence and knowledge. We are then to believe that satan can rebel after literally being in God's presence, but humans can't? Wasn't God already in the presence of humans 2000 years ago, though? And look how that worked out. Many still denied Him, still rejected Him even though God Himself was bodily in the midst of them the entire time.

Billions probably perish under Amill, but at least they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved.

You said this---but at least they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved.

One is to then believe that someone who never even heard of Christ, then dies still not ever hearing of Him, as in no one ever preached Christ to this person, that they at least had the opportunity to have faith and be saved? Per this scenario, in what universe is that true, that someone that had never heard of Christ during the past 2000 years, and that they eventually died, still not ever hearing of Christ, well at least they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved?

Granted, it might be true of many per the past 2000 years, but it might not be true of everyone per the past 2000 years, that at least many had the opportunity to have faith and be saved. But what about the ones that didn't? Who knows how many that might involve over the past 2000 years? You are apparently applying this---they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved--universally when it couldn't possibly be being applied in that manner.

 

[WPM]

The Premill Millennium is peaceful and devoid of satan's deceptions. But the Amill Millennium is a disaster, despite scripture saying satan is bound and imprisoned and unable to deceive anyone, it has satan roaming freely, spreading deception, blocking the gospel, having Christians murdered all over the globe, and the biggest decline of Christianity since Christianity started. That's the truth about today's world, the so-called Amill Millennium. But the reason all those things are happening is because this is NOT the real millennium and satan is not bound or imprisoned or unable to deceive.

The Amill Millennium is hell on earth, but Premill's is fantastic! Not only will Jesus be reigning here on the Earth, there will be resurrected and immortal saints! If that wasn't awesome enough, satan isn't even a part of it! That's 3 things that are WONDERFUL and none of them happen in Amill's Millennium.

The Premil millennium has been portrayed for years as some Edenic arrangement with unparalleled bliss and wholesale submission to righteousness, when in fact it is simply more of the same. Basically, their millennium is just a mirror of our day with sin abounding and the bondage of corruption prospering. You have continued death, decay, sickness, funerals, crying, hatred, strife and wickedness prospers. This all ends with rebellion in history.

This whole Premil presentation is a clear bust. It is a debacle. I am sure glad it is not going to happen.

 

[WPM]

Let's do some comparing of both. If you think of something else to add, be sure to mention it and I will add it to the OP unless it causes the OP to increase in size to the point it makes it too lengthy to add it to it. The OP is already somewhat lengthy to begin with. Or if you see something that doesn't fit your proposed Millennium, be sure to mention it and I will remove it from the OP if you convincingly argue why it doesn't.

Amil's proposed Millennium first.

People can be saved throughout their proposed Millennium.

People are still being deceived throughout their proposed Millennium. Billions and billions of people, the fact not everyone manages to get saved during their proposed Millennium.

Righteousness is not dwelling throughout the earth during their proposed Millennium. There are crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked lawyers, so on and so on, throughout their proposed Millennium

satan, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour(1 Peter 5:8), during their proposed Millennium.

satan can fill one's heart to lie to the Holy Ghost(Acts 5:3), during their proposed Millennium

satan can take advantage of some since some can be ignorant of his devices(2 Corinthians 2:11), during their proposed Millennium.

satan is transformed into an angel of light(2 Corinthians 11:14), during their proposed Millennium.

satan can hinder someone(1 Thessalonians 2:18), during their proposed Millennium.

That's enough for now. Next Premil's proposed Millennium.

Not one single person on the entire planet is still being deceived during their proposed Millennium. And the reasons why are obvious. There is no one to deceive them during the Millennium. Christ and His bodily immortal saints are ruling and governing the entire planet. satan is the pit, the beast and false prophet are in the LOF.

Righteousness is dwelling throughout the earth during their proposed Millennium. There are no more crooked courts, no more crooked judges, no more crooked lawyers, so on and so on, throughout their proposed Millennium

satan, as a roaring lion, is not walking about, seeking whom he may devour, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't fill anyone's heart to lie to the Holy Ghost during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't take advantage of anyone since no one can be ignorant of his devices, during their proposed Millennium, the fact satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan is not transformed into an angel of light, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't hinder anyone, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

Thus far, based on the above, which Millennium seems to be the better one? The only thing I can see being better about Amil's proposed Millennium is that people can be saved during it. Is that alone enough to make their Millennium the better one? Maybe, maybe not.

We have to factor in that Not once saved always saved, that this is Biblical, regardless that some deny it. How many might fall away over all? Millions, billions perhaps? If so, their proposed Millennium didn't manage to keep everyone still saved in the end, obviously. If Amil views Premil's proposed Millennium as a failure based on satan's little season that follows, why don't they view their proposed Millennium equally as a failure? Could the real reason be that most of them likely deny that NOSAS is Biblical? Thus no failure whatsoever since no one saved ever loses their salvation, right? Only if NOSAS is not Biblical, though. Except it is Biblical, 100% Biblical.

Your Premil millennium is a figment of your imagination. It will never happen. It is delusional.

• You have zero corroboration for all the main tenets you foist upon Revelation 20.
• Your opinion contradicts numerous climactic Scriptures that shows the second coming as the end. Although, that means little to you. Words mean nothing to you. You redefine them to suit what you have been taught.
• You invent 2 last days periods and 2 NHNEs because you enjoy no corroboration for your invented future millennium. Talk about manipulating Scripture.

The reality is, you are in love with a doctrine not the biblical text. You shamefacedly continue to promote this error despite it being refuted repeatedly for years. You are without excuse.

 

[jeffweeder]

I ask again,

How are people saved post second coming with the Lord and his faithful glorified and seen by the physical senses by those who have formerly had no faith at all at his coming and had rejected the Gospel.?

Do you reject what happens to those who reject the Gospel at his coming and our glorification???

2Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].

9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day.

 

[ewq1938]

I ask again,

How are people saved post second coming with the Lord and his faithful glorified and seen by the physical senses by those who have formerly had no faith at all at his coming and had rejected the Gospel.?

Do you reject what happens to those who reject the Gospel at his coming and our glorification???

2Thess 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].

9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day.

Verse 9 uses a future tense verb indicating that the punishment of everlasting destruction does not happen at the second coming.

 

[WPM]

One could argue, and I have argued this before, so what, in light of the following? Initially satan also saw God face to face, saw Him in all of His glory, knew without a doubt He existed and knew without a doubt He created him, but did that prevent satan from rebelling? Of course not unless the Bible has been lying to us this entire time. Obviously, satan's intelligence and knowledge is light years above that of humans intelligence and knowledge. We are then to believe that satan can rebel after literally being in God's presence, but humans can't? Wasn't God already in the presence of humans 2000 years ago, though? And look how that worked out. Many still denied Him, still rejected Him even though God Himself was bodily in the midst of them the entire time.



You said this---but at least they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved.

One is to then believe that someone who never even heard of Christ, then dies still not ever hearing of Him, as in no one ever preached Christ to this person, that they at least had the opportunity to have faith and be saved? Per this scenario, in what universe is that true, that someone that had never heard of Christ during the past 2000 years, and that they eventually died, still not ever hearing of Christ, well at least they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved?

Granted, it might be true of many per the past 2000 years, but it might not be true of everyone per the past 2000 years, that at least many had the opportunity to have faith and be saved. But what about the ones that didn't? Who knows how many that might involve over the past 2000 years? You are apparently applying this---they had the opportunity to have faith and be saved--universally when it couldn't possibly be being applied in that manner.

Which age to come is better? Amil's or Premil's proposed millennium?​

One which is re-run of our current age that is sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted and war-ravaged. One that is eventually overrun after 1000 years with billions of satanists. The wicked override this progressively perfected renewed earth at the end. You have billions of supposed mortal satanists fighting billions of glorified saints. You have the restoration of the old covenant arrangement - with the rebuilding of the Jewish temple, the restoration of the old covenant priesthood, and the full restarting of blood sacrifices for sin.

What we are looking at in Premil is a semi-glorious/semi-corrupt kingdom that is half-liberated and half-bound. This undesirable mongrel earth is equally filled with righteousness and unrighteousness, sin and sinlessness, glorified saints and mortal rebels, immortality and mortality, peace and harmony and war and terror. This concept is totally unknown to Scripture.

Or, do you prefer the Amil age to come that is completely delivered from the bondage of corruption at the second coming, is perfect and that only accepts the incorruptible redeemed ( as Scripture teaches). Only the meek inherit the earth. Only the glorified saints inherit the glorified earth.

On the Amil earth the curse is banished forever. Every enemy of Christ and the redeemed is destroyed at the second coming.

 

[jeffweeder]

Verse 9 uses a future tense verb indicating that the punishment of everlasting destruction does not happen at the second coming.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].

You avoided the question again.
How are people saved post second coming
Cannot have faith in what you see.

 

[ewq1938]

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].

You avoided the question again.
How are people saved post second coming
Cannot have faith in what you see.

I'm just making sure the readers know about the future tense verb in verse 9 and how it proves the eternal destruction does not happen at the second coming.

I can address other parts of that post once that is dealt with.

 

[jeffweeder]

I'm just making sure the readers know about the future tense verb in verse 9 and how it proves the eternal destruction does not happen at the second coming.

Lol, have a nice day.

 

[Davidpt]

Your Premil millennium is a figment of your imagination. It will never happen. It is delusional.

• You have zero corroboration for all the main tenets you foist upon Revelation 20.
• Your opinion contradicts numerous climactic Scriptures that shows the second coming as the end. Although, that means little to you. Words mean nothing to you. You redefine them to suit what you have been taught.
• You invent 2 last days periods and 2 NHNEs because you enjoy no corroboration for your invented future millennium. Talk about manipulating Scripture.

The reality is, you are in love with a doctrine not the biblical text. You shamefacedly continue to promote this error despite it being refuted repeatedly for years. You are without excuse.

In the event Amil is the correct position, regardless, only one thing makes sense to me in that case. That being the following. Except I have never noted any Amils making this connection.

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

These in verse 8 are meaning the following I have underlined in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 below.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

Per Amil wouldn't all of the following I have underlined basically be involving satan's little season after the thousand years expire?

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed , whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

If yes, then where do Amils think these that fall away(2 Thessalonians 2:3) are identified during satan's little season if not Revelation 20:8? Who else can these that fall away be meaning in Revelation 20:7-9, assuming Amil is the correct position? Couldn't possibly be meaning the camp of the saints, right?

Also, if this--except there come a falling away first--doesn't undeniably prove that NOSAS is Biblical, then nothing does. This is the more clearer proof. After all, it is nonsensical to fall away from something you were never part of to begin with. Obviously then, you can only fall away from something you had part in. What did they have part in intially if not salvation? Anyone that can still deny that NOSAS is Biblical in light of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 are being false teachers purposesly rather than out of ignorance. They know exactly what they are doing.

They are teaching NOSAS is not Biblical though 2 Thessalonians 2:3 undeniably proves otherwise. Very arrogant of them, as if they will never have to answer for this, as if God is just going to give them a free pass even though this false doctrine that only OSAS is Biblical, NOSAS isn't, literally sends some to hell, because instead of repenting after beginning to fall away, they think they have nothing to repent of since no one saved can lose their salvation no matter what to begin with.

 

[WPM]

In the event Amil is the correct position, regardless, only one thing makes sense to me in that case. That being the following. Except I have never noted any Amils making this connection.

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

These in verse 8 are meaning the following I have underlined in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 below.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

Per Amil wouldn't all of the following I have underlined basically be involving satan's little season after the thousand years expire?

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed , whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

If yes, then where do Amils think these that fall away(2 Thessalonians 2:3) are identified during satan's little season if not Revelation 20:8? Who else can these that fall away be meaning in Revelation 20:7-9, assuming Amil is the correct position? Couldn't possibly be meaning the camp of the saints, right?

Also, if this--except there come a falling away first--doesn't undeniably prove that NOSAS is Biblical, then nothing does. This is the more clearer proof. After all, it is nonsensical to fall away from something you were never part of to begin with. Obviously then, you can only fall away from something you had part in. What did they have part in intially if not salvation? Anyone that can still deny that NOSAS is Biblical in light of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 are being false teachers purposesly rather than out of ignorance. They know exactly what they are doing.

They are teaching NOSAS is not Biblical though 2 Thessalonians 2:3 undeniably proves otherwise. Very arrogant of them, as if they will never have to answer for this, as if God is just going to give them a free pass even though this false doctrine that only OSAS is Biblical, NOSAS isn't, literally sends some to hell, because instead of repenting after beginning to fall away, they think they have nothing to repent of since no one saved can lose their salvation no matter what to begin with.

Apostasy does not relate to believers but religious people rejecting known truth. The elect will not be deceived. Jesus said it.

 

[grafted branch]

Let's do some comparing of both. If you think of something else to add, be sure to mention it and I will add it to the OP unless it causes the OP to increase in size to the point it makes it too lengthy to add it to it. The OP is already somewhat lengthy to begin with. Or if you see something that doesn't fit your proposed Millennium, be sure to mention it and I will remove it from the OP if you convincingly argue why it doesn't.

Amil's proposed Millennium first.

People can be saved throughout their proposed Millennium.

People are still being deceived throughout their proposed Millennium. Billions and billions of people, the fact not everyone manages to get saved during their proposed Millennium.

Righteousness is not dwelling throughout the earth during their proposed Millennium. There are crooked courts, crooked judges, crooked lawyers, so on and so on, throughout their proposed Millennium

satan, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour(1 Peter 5:8), during their proposed Millennium.

satan can fill one's heart to lie to the Holy Ghost(Acts 5:3), during their proposed Millennium

satan can take advantage of some since some can be ignorant of his devices(2 Corinthians 2:11), during their proposed Millennium.

satan is transformed into an angel of light(2 Corinthians 11:14), during their proposed Millennium.

satan can hinder someone(1 Thessalonians 2:18), during their proposed Millennium.

That's enough for now. Next Premil's proposed Millennium.

Not one single person on the entire planet is still being deceived during their proposed Millennium. And the reasons why are obvious. There is no one to deceive them during the Millennium. Christ and His bodily immortal saints are ruling and governing the entire planet. satan is the pit, the beast and false prophet are in the LOF.

Righteousness is dwelling throughout the earth during their proposed Millennium. There are no more crooked courts, no more crooked judges, no more crooked lawyers, so on and so on, throughout their proposed Millennium

satan, as a roaring lion, is not walking about, seeking whom he may devour, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't fill anyone's heart to lie to the Holy Ghost during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't take advantage of anyone since no one can be ignorant of his devices, during their proposed Millennium, the fact satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan is not transformed into an angel of light, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

satan can't hinder anyone, during their proposed Millennium. satan is actually in the pit during their proposed Millennium.

Thus far, based on the above, which Millennium seems to be the better one? The only thing I can see being better about Amil's proposed Millennium is that people can be saved during it. Is that alone enough to make their Millennium the better one? Maybe, maybe not.

We have to factor in that Not once saved always saved, that this is Biblical, regardless that some deny it. How many might fall away over all? Millions, billions perhaps? If so, their proposed Millennium didn't manage to keep everyone still saved in the end, obviously. If Amil views Premil's proposed Millennium as a failure based on satan's little season that follows, why don't they view their proposed Millennium equally as a failure? Could the real reason be that most of them likely deny that NOSAS is Biblical? Thus no failure whatsoever since no one saved ever loses their salvation, right? Only if NOSAS is not Biblical, though. Except it is Biblical, 100% Biblical.

Here’s something that could be considered …

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

If the Premill millennium is full of just, righteous people then the joy in heaven will be greatly diminished during a Premill millennium, while the joy in heaven is much greater in an Amill millennium.

 

[KUWN]

If the Premill millennium is full of just, righteous people then the joy in heaven will be greatly diminished during a Premill millennium, while the joy in heaven is much greater in an Amill millennium.

How do you have an Amil millennium? Amil means no millennium.

 

[grafted branch]

How do you have an Amil millennium? Amil means no millennium.

Well, I’m not an Amill, so you’ll have to ask someone else that question.