Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[WPM]

I disagree. There is no mention of heaven, and the scene is not heavenly. Contrast the scene depicted in Revelation 4 with the scene depicted in Revelation 20. There is a big difference.

For instance, Revelation 4 mentions flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder, which are absent from Revelation 20. Revelation 4 and 5 mention singing, which is absent from Revelation 20. Revelation 4 mentions one throne; Revelation 20 mentions many thrones. Revelation 5 depicts a concert of angels singing; Revelation 20 does not. The events depicted in Revelations 4 and 5 employ symbolic representation because the heavenly environment is so wonderful that words fail to convey the beauty and glory of that place. Revelation 20 employs no symbolic language.

Consider the opening remarks in Revelation 20, which depicts events that take place on the earth.

Revelation 20:1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

We have no indication that the scene has changed from the earth to heaven in subsequent verses.

It describes the souls that have been resurrected and come to life.

That isn't true.

You didn't ask me about the rest of the Bible. You asked a specific question about Revelation 20.

What in the text rules that out?

Christ comes down to bind Satan on earth. In doing that, He also liberated His people from their imprisonment. After His first resurrection He raised the dead in Christ from the OT who were in Hades (because sin, death and Hades and yet been unconquered) and brought them into the presence of God in heaven. That is what Revelation 20 shows.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Christ comes down to bind Satan on earth.

I see no evidence that Satan is unable to deceive the nations.

 

[WPM]

I see nothing in the text that would lead the reader to conclude that we are looking at a heavenly scene.

I know you don't. Because if you do did then you have to abandon Premil. That would be a bridge too far for you.

The throne or thrones in the Bible are always in heaven.

Isaiah 66:1 says, “heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.”

It is not the other way around like you would probably wish it said!!!

This truth is consistently and explicitly revealed throughout the pages of Holy Writ – Old and New. The throne of God has always been located in heaven; it is the place of Sovereign power and supreme authority. Psalm 11:4 expressly states, “The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”

Psalm 103:19 declares, “The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.”

Psalm 110:1 also confirms the heavenly location of God’s throne, when it says, “Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”

The right hand of power always refers to the heavenly domain in Scripture.

 

[WPM]

I see no evidence that Satan is unable to deceive the nations.

While the Old Testament repeatedly describes the Gentiles as being in darkness, that did not mean there were none saved then. It was just a broad common generality of the spiritual condition of the Gentile world before Jesus.

Satan was bound (or spiritually curtailed) in order to facilitate the invasion of his territory by the Gospel. Remember, Satan is a spiritual being; he must therefore be spiritually bound. That is what happened through the earthly ministry of Christ, the cross and the first resurrection of Jesus. Countless millions of Gentiles have come to Christ since that.

Does this passage suggest there is no more darkness in this world any longer? Does this mean everyone is now enlightened? Of course not! This is a spiritual generality. This is common in Scripture. It is demonstrating the powerful result of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. This is testifying of the massive change that occurred with the global assault upon the kingdom of darkness. This is showing the impact of the success of the great commission. Men throughout the nations are now without excuse. The truth has been spread to the uttermost parts of the earth. This is saying the exact same as Revelation 20:2.

Just because most don't believe doesn't mean the blindfold of ignorance has not been removed with the global preaching of the Gospel. Just because you and I are enlightened doesn't mean sin doesn't exist within us. Your reasoning therefore doesn't add up.

Satan can no longer prevent the Gospel light going out to the nations. The Gentiles have therefore no excuse. They who were once “without God in the world” before the cross can now be “made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:11-12). The cross has made the difference for the nations. It was the turning point for the heathen nations. They have now seen the light. What they do with that light is, of course, up to them. But God has opened a way of access to all nations without favour. They are no longer deceived as to the way.

 

[WPM]

This isn't true. We have no evidence that such things took place.

All you have is your private opinion. Your short evasive statements mean nothing.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I know you don't. Because if you do did then you have to abandon Premil. That would be a bridge too far for you.

The throne or thrones in the Bible are always in heaven.

David sat on an earthly throne. Not all thrones are in heaven.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Satan was bound (or spiritually curtailed) in order to facilitate the invasion of his territory by the Gospel.

I doubt this is true. But even if it were true, John's word speaks about Satan being unable to deceive the nations. Since he is able to deceive the nations, then the thousand years is in our future.

 

[CadyandZoe]

All you have is your private opinion. Your short evasive statements mean nothing.

If they meant nothing, you wouldn't care to respond.

 

[Timtofly]

the other two refer to the beast’s throne in Revelation 13:2; 16:10.

There is no throne "of the beast" in these verses. That is the throne of Jesus, who is God, located in Jerusalem. God allows Satan to sit on that earthly throne of Jesus after the Second Coming, and after Jesus sets up and sits in judgment on that glorious throne. That is the same throne in Matthew 25:31.

That throne currently does not even exist in Jerusalem. It cannot exist until the Second Coming:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

That is the throne mentioned in Revelation 13 and 16.

It is even mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:4

"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

That glorious throne is the one in a Temple in Jerusalem. Jesus is sitting in that Temple as the King of Israel after the Second Coming.

Israel is judged as sheep and goats; Gathered out of all nations as they have been scattered for thousands of years.

 

[WPM]

I doubt this is true. But even if it were true, John's word speaks about Satan being unable to deceive the nations. Since he is able to deceive the nations, then the thousand years is in our future.

1. Satan is a spiritual being.
2. Spiritual chains restraint spiritual beings in Scripture.
3. Revelation is saturated in figurative language.
4. There is NO other Scripture that corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroyed.
5. Scripture teaches that Satan has already fell from heaven and now present in the Abyss (John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:9-13). Peter 2:4, Jude v 6 and Revelation 9:1-11 shows the demonic world in a current spiritually bound condition in the abyss.
6. Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

 

[CadyandZoe]

1. Satan is a spiritual being.
2. Spiritual chains restraint spiritual beings in Scripture.

John says that Satan will no longer be able to deceive the nations. Since he is able to deceive the nations, he is not yet bound.

 

[Scott Downey]

While the Old Testament repeatedly describes the Gentiles as being in darkness, that did not mean there were none saved then. It was just a broad common generality of the spiritual condition of the Gentile world before Jesus.

Satan was bound (or spiritually curtailed) in order to facilitate the invasion of his territory by the Gospel. Remember, Satan is a spiritual being; he must therefore be spiritually bound. That is what happened through the earthly ministry of Christ, the cross and the first resurrection of Jesus. Countless millions of Gentiles have come to Christ since that.

Does this passage suggest there is no more darkness in this world any longer? Does this mean everyone is now enlightened? Of course not! This is a spiritual generality. This is common in Scripture. It is demonstrating the powerful result of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. This is testifying of the massive change that occurred with the global assault upon the kingdom of darkness. This is showing the impact of the success of the great commission. Men throughout the nations are now without excuse. The truth has been spread to the uttermost parts of the earth. This is saying the exact same as Revelation 20:2.

Just because most don't believe doesn't mean the blindfold of ignorance has not been removed with the global preaching of the Gospel. Just because you and I are enlightened doesn't mean sin doesn't exist within us. Your reasoning therefore doesn't add up.

Satan can no longer prevent the Gospel light going out to the nations. The Gentiles have therefore no excuse. They who were once “without God in the world” before the cross can now be “made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:11-12). The cross has made the difference for the nations. It was the turning point for the heathen nations. They have now seen the light. What they do with that light is, of course, up to them. But God has opened a way of access to all nations without favour. They are no longer deceived as to the way.

Yes, not to the nations, but Satan can and does do so to unbelievers today, until God chooses to reveal to them the light of the gospel, which results in them being saved. Satan can not prevent God from saving anyone.
But until they are saved, their minds remain blinded to the gospel light.

The Light of Christ’s Gospel​

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.

6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Compare and contrast.
v4 are the unsaved, unbelieving who are perishing. Gospel is veiled, minds blinded by Satan. Much of the world for all of NT history fits here.

v6 are the saved, God has shown His light in their hearts.

And this also tells us God saves those He chose. Just like Ephesians 1 says

 

[CadyandZoe]

1. Satan is a spiritual being.
2. Spiritual chains restraint spiritual beings in Scripture.
3. Revelation is saturated in figurative language.
4. There is NO other Scripture that corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroyed.
5. Scripture teaches that Satan has already fell from heaven and now present in the Abyss (John 12:31-33 and Revelation 12:9-13). Peter 2:4, Jude v 6 and Revelation 9:1-11 shows the demonic world in a current spiritually bound condition in the abyss.
6. Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

Revelation 20:1-3 does not address salvation. Instead, John discusses warfare, specifically the conflict waged against Israel, as indicated by the comparison between verses 3 and 8.

@Scott Downey

 

[WPM]

Revelation 20:1-3 does not address salvation. Instead, John discusses warfare, specifically the conflict waged against Israel, as indicated by the comparison between verses 3 and 8.

You avoided all my points.

 

[WPM]

Yes, not to the nations, but Satan can and does do so to unbelievers today, until God chooses to reveal to them the light of the gospel, which results in them being saved. Satan can not prevent God from saving anyone.
But until they are saved, their minds remain blinded to the gospel light.

The Light of Christ’s Gospel​

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.

6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Compare and contrast.
v4 are the unsaved, unbelieving who are perishing. Gospel is veiled, minds blinded by Satan. Much of the world for all of NT history fits here.

v6 are the saved, God has shown His light in their hearts.

And this also tells us God saves those He chose. Just like Ephesians 1 says

Isaiah 9:1-2 predicted the Messiah and the massive effective of the spread of the Gospel to the nations: “the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened?

Isaiah 42:6-7 says, "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened?

Isaiah 58:6-12 asks, “Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward. Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened?

Isaiah 60:1-3 says, “Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened?

Isaiah 61:1 says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened?

In Matthew 12 we see the religious Jews rejecting Christ. Matthew 12:14-22 records, “Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles [Gr. ethnos]. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened?

Luke 2:27-32: “And he (Simeon) came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles [Gr. ethnos], and the glory of thy people Israel.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened?

 

[rebuilder 454]

If they meant nothing, you wouldn't care to respond.

I disagree with you on several issues, but I appreciate your spirit.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You avoided all my points.

If I understood you correctly, your main point is to say that Satan was "bound" so that the Gentiles might believe. I disagree with your suppositions and assumptions behind your salvation theory. Even so, I pointed out that salvation is NOT John's concern in Revelation 20. For this reason, the issue of salvation is irrelevant to our conversation about Satan being bound.

The issue at hand is God's promise that Israel would never again be attacked by its enemies, allowing the nation to worship God freely and without fear. To fulfill this promise, God will bind Satan in chains, preventing him from interacting with anyone. For a thousand years, he will not be able to motivate the nations to attack Israel. After the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released so that he can inspire the nations to invade Israel. However, at that time, Israel's enemies will be consumed by fire before they even set foot on Israeli soil.

The fact that a spirit can't be bound by physical chains is irrelevant. The chains symbolically represent actual restraint and separation from human contact.

Bottom line: The issue at hand is Satan's inability to bring Israel's enemies against her for a thousand years. At the end of the thousand years, he will attempt to bring human armies against her, but they will be defeated well before they arrive on the battlefield.

 

[WPM]

If I understood you correctly, your main point is to say that Satan was "bound" so that the Gentiles might believe. I disagree with your suppositions and assumptions behind your salvation theory. Even so, I pointed out that salvation is NOT John's concern in Revelation 20. For this reason, the issue of salvation is irrelevant to our conversation about Satan being bound.

The issue at hand is God's promise that Israel would never again be attacked by its enemies, allowing the nation to worship God freely and without fear. To fulfill this promise, God will bind Satan in chains, preventing him from interacting with anyone. For a thousand years, he will not be able to motivate the nations to attack Israel. After the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released so that he can inspire the nations to invade Israel. However, at that time, Israel's enemies will be consumed by fire before they even set foot on Israeli soil.

The fact that a spirit can't be bound by physical chains is irrelevant. The chains symbolically represent actual restraint and separation from human contact.

Bottom line: The issue at hand is Satan's inability to bring Israel's enemies against her for a thousand years. At the end of the thousand years, he will attempt to bring human armies against her, but they will be defeated well before they arrive on the battlefield.

I think you think because you say something it makes it a fact. That is delusional.

Your posts consist essentially of private opinion. What you promote is not in Revelation 20. You force it into that. My interpretation enjoys multiple corroboration. Your enjoys none.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I think you think because you say something it makes it a fact. That is delusional.

Your posts consist essentially of private opinion. What you promote is not in Revelation 20. You force it into that. My interpretation enjoys multiple corroboration. Your enjoys none.

Yet you can't seem to give reasons for your objections. I get that we disagree, but the fact that you can't seem to explain why you disagree is a bit unsatisfying.

 

[WPM]

Yet you can't seem to give reasons for your objections. I get that we disagree, but the fact that you can't seem to explain why you disagree is a bit unsatisfying.

Hello! IT IS NOT IN THE TEXT! Good enough!