Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[Spiritual Israelite]

FWIW, I get your point loud and clear. I have no reading comprehension issues with what you are arguing and why you are arguing it the way you are.

He was deceptively acting as if I deny the bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ. I'm tired of all the constant premil misrepresentations of amil on this forum. Disagree all you want, but stop misrepresenting our view. I can only conclude that it's on purpose at this point because there's no reason for premils to not know what amils believe and why by now.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, he said the dead in Christ that are reigning now in Christ are there in spirit. The physical resurrection comes at the end of Revelation 20.

Premils are constantly trying to make it as if amils are full preterists and deny the future bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ. They can't support their own doctrine with scripture, so all they can do is misrepresent ours. It's ridiculous.

 

[WPM]

Premils are constantly trying to make it as if amils are full preterists and deny the future bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ. They can't support their own doctrine with scripture, so all they can do is misrepresent ours. It's ridiculous.

That is because they have no rebuttal for the Amil position. They therefore have to twist what it is in order to try to undermine it.

 

[tailgator]

You mock out of ignorance. You may carry no authority and no power in the kingdom of God but born again Christians do. They carry delegated spiritual authority from heaven. They reign over the dark spiritual realm.

So you believe these born again Christians who were beheaded for their testimony of Jesus are resurected and reign over the dark spiritual realm.
But the devil has already been chained and cast into a pit while they are reigning.



Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


You sure these born again Christians are reigning over the dark spiritual realm?You think they are in the pit with the devil or something?

 

[WPM]

To add to my post #91 since it is being ignored thus far by Amils, I submit this.

Even those cross reference sites where you can check cross refs, that if you submit Daniel 7:22 it lists Revelation 20:4 as a cross ref. That if you submit Daniel 7:21 it lists Revelation 13:5-7 as a cross ref.

Anyone that knows anything about Eschatology at all, knows full well that the 2nd coming follows what Revelation 13:5-7 is involving. Therefore, if Daniel 7:21 is involving Revelation 13:5-7, and that Daniel 7:22 follows that, it couldn't possibly have to take a rocket scientist to figure out that verse 22 is meaning the 2nd coming. And if verse 22 is meaning the beginning of the millennium, it couldn't possibly take a rocket scientist to have to figure it out that the millennium is meaning after the 2nd coming because Daniel 7:22 is meaning the 2nd coming and is meaning the beginning of the millennium. That is obviously Premil, the same Premil the OP insists contradicts Scripture.

Is not Daniel 7:21-22, Revelation 13:5-7, and Revelation 20:4 Scripture? So why isn't Premil contradicting those Scriptures but Amil is? Did the OP perhaps make a typo in the title of his thread and meant to say this instead? Indisputable proof that the Amillennial theory contradicts Scripture. BTW, you can fix typos like that by using the edit feature. :)

Whose cross references? Your Premillennialist mentors that have misled you.

This shows how bereft you are of any credible biblical support. Where does Daniel 7:21-22 mention the second coming? Nowhere! Where does Daniel 7:21-22 teach a future 1000 years after the second coming? Nowhere. Where does Daniel 7:21-22 teach all the Premil tenets? Nowhere! It is talking about the 4th base - the Roman Empire back 2000 years ago. This totally demolishes your whole argument.

Where does Revelation 13:5-7 mention the second coming? Nowhere! Where does Revelation 13:5-7 teach a future 1000 years after the second coming? Nowhere. Where does Revelation 13:5-7 teach all the Premil tenets?

This shows how delusional Premillennialism is. This shows how impotent the doctrine actually is.

You ducked around the issues in your post, and you did it again in this one.

The bottom line is you have absolutely nothing to refute the Op. It stands unshakable. That is because it is the truth! Premillennialists have not even led a punch on it yet. That is because it is watertight.

 

[tailgator]

FWIW, I get your point loud and clear. I have no reading comprehension issues with what you are arguing and why you are arguing it the way you are.

That's what's wrong with Amil here. The way they are interpreting Revelation 20:4 does not flow into verses 7-9. They have it disconnected from that, where it's not even involving anyone in verse 4 when verses 7-9 takes place. They just don't get it. Verses 7-9 is involving those that have been reigning a thousand years with Christ. Except Amil has them still dead and living in a disembodied state when Revelation 20:7-9 is meaning.

Exactly.
The resurected saints in Revelation 20:4 are all the same saints through 20:9.

They don't get it .They take one verse out of context and claim they have been resurected without first being killed.

It's rediculous.

 

[tailgator]

This show's how bereft you are of any credible biblical support. Where does Daniel 7:21-22 mention the second coming?Nowhere! Where does Daniel 7:21-22 teach a future 1000 years after the second coming? Nowhere. Where does Daniel 7:21-22 teach all the Premil tenets? Nowhere! It is talking about the 4th base - the Roman Empire back 2000 years ago. This totally demolishes your whole argument.

Where does Revelation 13:5-7 mention the second coming?Nowhere! Where does Revelation 13:5-7 teach a future 1000 years after the second coming? Nowhere. Where does Revelation 13:5-7 teach all the Premil tenets?

This shows how delusional Premillennialism is. This shows how impotent the doctrine actually is.

You ducked around the issues in your post, and you did it again in this one.

The bottom line is you have absolutely nothing to refute the Op. It stands unshakable. That is because it is the truth! Premillennialists have not even led a punch on it yet. That is because it is watertight.

Who said Christ comes in revelation 13:5-7 ?

Revelation13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


This is during the ,42 months tribulation where the saints are beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and who do not worship the beast or recieve it's mark.

The same beast destroyed in revelation 19 and Daniel 7.
And the same saints in Daniel 7 and revelation 20:4.-9.

 

[WPM]

So you believe these born again Christians who were beheaded for their testimony of Jesus are resurected and reign over the dark spiritual realm.
But the devil has already been chained and cast into a pit while they are reigning.



Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


You sure these born again Christians are reigning over the dark spiritual realm?You think they are in the pit with the devil or something?

Believers are reigning on earth now, believers are reigning in heaven now. It is not a difficult concept to grasp if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[tailgator]

Believers are reigning on earth now, believers are reigning in heaven now. It is not a difficult concept to grasp if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.

The resurected saints in revelation 20:4-9 sit on thrones and reign after Jesus comes.
They are the last to be beheaded for their witness of Jesus before he comes.



27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

 

[WPM]

The resurected saints in revelation 20:4-9 sit on thrones and reign after Jesus comes.
They are the last to be beheaded for their witness of Jesus before he comes.



27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

We reign now in life, in death in heaven, when Jesus comes and forever. The reigning over the nations at the end is simply the judgment. That is it! The word means to shepherd.

 

[tailgator]

We reign now in life, in death in heaven, when Jesus comes and forever. The reigning over the nations at the end is simply the judgment. That is it! The word means to shepherd.

Well
The saints who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus are resurected in the first resurection and reign with Christ upon earth for 1000 years before Gog and the nations surround them,and then fire comes down from heaven from God and devours Gog and those nations.


27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

 

[WPM]

Well
The saints who were beheaded for their witness of Jesus are resurected in the first resurection and reign with Christ upon earth for 1000 years before Gog and the nations surround them,and then fire comes down from heaven from God and devours Gog and those nations.


27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

No. Your thesis is wrong. Read the Op. You will see the truth. You have avoided it for long enough!

 

[WPM]

The OP claims it has it has Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture. Let's see if that might be so by looking at some of this per the following angle.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them(Revelation 20:4)

Let's start with this, but unfortunately, some Amils, maybe even all Amils, apparently think the OT can never help explain anything in the NT, it is always the other way around, in every single case. Whatever. If you say so. I don't agree, though.

Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


The reason why I included verse 21 is because that is obviously involving the 42 month reign of the beast that must precede the 2nd coming. Therefore, verse 22 is obviously meaning the 2nd coming since we know from the NT it is the 2nd coming that puts an end to the 42 month reign of the beast.

And what does verse 22 record? This---and judgment was given to the saints of the most High---almost word for word exactly what Revelation 20:4 records here---and judgment was given unto them

In the KJV these two portions would like this side by side.

and judgment was given to the saints of the most High
and judgment was given unto them

Obviously, now we know without a doubt who the 'them' are meaning in Revelation 20:4. According to Daniel 7:22 they are meaning the saints of the most High. It can't get any clearer nor plainer than this. And that Daniel 7:22 is meaning as of the 2nd coming, this is when judgment is given to them. Therefore, also revealing the correct era of time meant in Revelation 20:4, obviously.


But instead of Amils accepting this, they look for ways to alter the meaning and era of time meant here by using similar tactics that preterists use, though it is crystal clear as to the meaning and era of time meant here. And it is obvious why Amils do this. Because if they don't do it they then have to admit their doctrine of Amil simply can't work after all. IOW, they place their doctrines high above the truth.

Thus, they use similar tactics that preterists employ by insisting a different era of time is meant rather than the actual era of time meant. For example, how preterists interpret this generation shall not pass, in the Discourse.

Daniel 7:22 is undeniably meaning the beginning of the millennium. Daniel 7:22 is undeniably involving the 2nd coming since verse 21 is undeniably involving the 42 month reign of the beast, and that the 42 month reign of the beast undeniably precedes the 2nd coming. Yet, the OP insists it has Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture...lol. As if Daniel 7:22 agrees with Amil rather than Premil.

Even if Amils admit that Daniel 7:22 is involving the beginning of the millennium, they then have to employ preterist-like tactics in order to change the coming in verse 22 to be involving the first coming rather than the 2nd coming. Which then makes total nonsense out of verse 21 which has to precede verse 22. Now, instead of applying verse 21 to the final days of this age, we have to apply it to 2000 years ago since we had to change the 2nd coming to be meaning the 1st coming. Clearly, Amils, just like preterists do with the coming in the Discourse by changing it to mean the first coming rather than the 2nd coming, thus they can't be trusted to be honest with the texts , neither can Amils be trusted to be honest with the texts involved since they copycat what preterists do. Yet, the OP insists it has Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture.

Daniel 7:13-14 says, “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

When most people read this reference to the Son of man coming with clouds they immediately assume that it relates to the second coming of the Lord. However, if they would carefully examine the wording of the passage and particularly the import of the reading, they would find that it makes absolutely no mention to Christ coming to earth in the clouds, but rather, it is speaking of Christ rising into the presence of His Father – the Ancient of Days – to receive His reward. The narrative expressly says, “the Son of man … came to the Ancient of days.” This glorious event occurred after the cross when He triumphantly entered into the portals of heaven in a cloud to sit at the right hand of majesty on high.

Premillennialists commonly apply this reading to the second coming, however, a close study of this reading shows that it relates specifically to the Lord’s ascension. The question that emanates from here is: where, in this vision, does the son of man (Christ) go? Is it to the earth or is it to His Father? Of course the passage answers this for us; “the Son of man … came to the Ancient of days.” The Son of Man is shown here not to be coming from the Ancient of Days, but rather going to Him in the clouds. Christ is coming to the Father. For what purpose? Christ ascended in the clouds to the Father to receive His coronation. He came to be given dominion, glory and a kingdom. Christ is therefore not coming from heaven to earth in this passage, but coming from earth to heaven.

 

[tailgator]

No. Your thesis is wrong. Read the Op. You will see the truth.

I'm the one keeping it in context.
I also know who it is that die for their witness of Jesus and who do not worship the beast ,it's image nor receive it's mark.
I know what name they are called throughout scripture.




This is my thesis as written.

Revelation, 20:4-9
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[WPM]

I'm the one keeping it in context.
I also know who it is that die for their witness of Jesus and who do not worship the beast ,it's image nor receive it's mark.
I know what name they are called throughout scripture.




This is my thesis as written.

Revelation, 20:4-9
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

You do not understand the beast. You do not understand the mark of the beast. You do not understand the abyss. You do not get it that the beast has been around for thousands of years. You do not understand that the abyss is a spiritual prison on earth.

 

[tailgator]

You do not understand the beast. You do not understand the mark of the beast. You do not understand the abyss. You do not get it that the beast has been around for thousands of years. You do not understand that the abyss is a spiritual prison on earth.

I know who the beast is and the people who followed after it.
I also know the name of the people who are beheaded for their witness of Jesus and who do not worship the beast,it's image nor receive it's mark.

Revelation 20:4-9 is perfect just as it is written and you should stop taking one or two verses out of context if you truly want to understand it.


Revelation, 20:4-9
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[MA2444]

from heaven

Doh!

From Earth.

 

[jeffweeder]

Daniel 7:13-14 says, “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

When most people read this reference to the Son of man coming with clouds they immediately assume that it relates to the second coming of the Lord. However, if they would carefully examine the wording of the passage and particularly the import of the reading, they would find that it makes absolutely no mention to Christ coming to earth in the clouds, but rather, it is speaking of Christ rising into the presence of His Father – the Ancient of Days – to receive His reward. The narrative expressly says, “the Son of man … came to the Ancient of days.” This glorious event occurred after the cross when He triumphantly entered into the portals of heaven in a cloud to sit at the right hand of majesty on high.

I see it the same way, well said.
When did the Son ever leave the Father?, when did he return?

He left to become a Man in order to redeem us, and he returned victorious.

13
“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, on the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.


14
“And to Him (the Messiah) was given dominion (supreme authority),
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations, and speakers of every language
Should serve and worship Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Premillennialists commonly apply this reading to the second coming, however, a close study of this reading shows that it relates specifically to the Lord’s ascension. The question that emanates from here is: where, in this vision, does the son of man (Christ) go? Is it to the earth or is it to His Father? Of course the passage answers this for us; “the Son of man … came to the Ancient of days.” The Son of Man is shown here not to be coming from the Ancient of Days, but rather going to Him in the clouds. Christ is coming to the Father. For what purpose? Christ ascended in the clouds to the Father to receive His coronation. He came to be given dominion, glory and a kingdom. Christ is therefore not coming from heaven to earth in this passage, but coming from earth to heaven.

Amen
Not sure how one can apply that to his second coming. Jesus is with the Father now and will come in the glory of his Father.

Matt 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory and majesty of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each one in accordance with what he has done.

 

[tailgator]

I see it the same way, well said.
When did the Son ever leave the Father?, when did he return?

He left to become a Man in order to redeem us, and he returned victorious.

13
“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, on the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.


14
“And to Him (the Messiah) was given dominion (supreme authority),
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations, and speakers of every language
Should serve and worship Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Amen
Not sure how one can apply that to his second coming. Jesus is with the Father now and will come in the glory of his Father.

Matt 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory and majesty of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each one in accordance with what he has done.

Do you agree the beast is destroyed at Christs coming?



Revelation 19
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Or do you believe the beast is destroyed some other time?


Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[Davidpt]

Whose cross references? Your Premillennialist mentors that have misled you.

Here you are flat out lying about me. I have no Premil mentors. Since I have a brain of my own I am perfectly capable of reasoning through things on my own, I then form my own conclusions first, then I sometimes check other sources to see if anyone else is coming to the same or similar conclusions.

For example. If I am forming the opinion that Daniel 7:21 is involving Revelation 13:5-7, and that I am forming the opinion that Daniel 7:22 is involving the beginning of the millennium, I might then check some cross ref sites to see if any of them are listing those passages as cross refs. And sure enough, they are. But you lie about me and say it's the other way around, that I am forming my opinions based on what cross ref sites my alleged Premil mentors use that they have led me to use. When that is not even true. That aside, since it's not even worth arguing about any more. Believe what you want about me, in regards to the above, I don't care anymore.

It is apparent to some of us, though you claim you use Scripture to interpret Scripture, that you really don't. Your post here alone proves that, the fact you are demanding that what was hidden in the OT until revealed in the NT is not supposed to be hidden in the OT at all. You are contradicting yourself here by asking, where does Daniel 7:22 mention the 2nd coming? You are looking foolish if your position is, that things are hidden in the OT, revealed in the NT, then demanding, where does it say that that in that verse, so on and so on. How about in the NT? Duh! After all, prior to the NT the 2nd coming would initially be hidden in Daniel 7:22. Duh! again.

I'm convinced some of you don't even have a clue as to how to properly interpret Scripture with Scripture in a lot of cases, because all most of you are doing is using the NT alone rather than both testaments combined. If you were interpreting Scripture with Scripture you would notice per the NT that what is recorded in Revelation 13:5-7 this is what precedes the 2nd coming of Christ. The 2nd coming of Christ is what puts an end to that 42 month reign and the persecuting and martyring of saints. Revelation 13:5-7 is involving the same time period that Daniel 7:21 is involving.

The coming in Daniel 7:22 is what puts an end to this percecution taking place per verse 21, also meaning Revelation 13:5-7 according to the NT. Therefore, it stands to reason that Daniel 7:22 must be involving the 2nd coming. It is plain silly otherwise, that if according to the NT the 2nd coming is at the end of the beast's 42 month reign, and that Daniel 7:21 is also involving this same 42 month reign, and that Daniel 7:22 is meaning after Daniel 7:21 is fulfilled, that the coming in verse 22 is not even the 2nd coming, though in the NT the 2nd coming follows the 42 month reign.

On a different note, there are times that you argue with Preterists about the coming meant in Matthew 24, except you need to quit arguing with Preterists about something like that when you have no room to talk, the fact you are doing here the same thing they are doing, changing the 2nd coming to be meaning the first coming because of doctrinal bias, then criticizing them for doing that but giving yourself a free pass when you do it, such as you are doing per Daniel 7.