Understanding what Sheol, Hell, Hades mean.

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Hobie

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...Of course, in order to secure obedience, they were obliged to invent divine punishments for the disobedience of what they asserted to be divine laws. "Hence," says Bishop Warburton, "they enforced the belief of a future state of rewards and punishments by every sort of contrivance." And speaking of the addition of metempsychosis, or the transmigration of souls, he says: "This was an ingenious solution, invented by the Egyptian lawgivers, to remove all doubts concerning the moral attributes of God."

Egypt has been called the "Mother of Superstitions," and her whole religious history shows the propriety of the appellation. Greeks and Romans, Lawgivers and Philosophers, acknowledge their indebtedness to her in this respect, and freely credit her with the original invention of the fables and terrors of the invisible world; though it must be allowed that they have improved somewhat upon the hints given, and shown a wonderful inventive faculty of their own.

Dr. Good has a curious passage on the subject in hand, in his Book of Nature, which I must be permitted to introduce here. "It was believed in most countries," he says, "that this hell, hades, or invisible world, is divided into two very distinct and opposite regions, by a broad and impassable gulf; that the one is a seat of happiness, a paradise, or elysium, and the other a seat of misery, a gehenna, or tartarus; and that there is a supreme magistrate and an impartial tribunal belonging to the infernal shades, before which the ghosts must appear, and by which they are sentenced to the one or the other, according to the deeds done in the body. Egypt is said to have been the inventress of this important and valuable part of the tradition; and undoubtedly it is to be found in the earliest records of Egyptian history. But, from the wonderful conformity of its outlines to the parallel doctrines of the Scriptures, it is probable that it has a still higher origin, and that it constituted a part of the patriarchal creed, retained in a few channels, though forgotten or obliterated in others, and consequently that it was a divine communication in a very early age.

This last assertion is certainly a singular statement for a man of Dr. Good's learning and judgment. For, first, it does not conform at all to the doctrine of the Scriptures in regard to rewards and punishments, as our inquiry has fully shown. And, second, the patriarchal creed makes no mention of it, as far as we know; and if it made part of an early revelation, afterwards lost, it is reasonable to suppose that it would have been renewed again in the revelation to the Law of Moses.

Beside, if the Egyptians obtained it from any of the patriarchs, it must have been from Jacob or his descendants, after they went down into Egypt. It must have been a current doctrine, therefore, among the Israelites, and regarded by them as of divine authority; but this conclusion is shut off by the fact that Moses, though divinely commissioned as their teacher, rejects it from his law, and shows his unbelief and contempt for it by a studied and unbroken silence! Curious, indeed, if Dr. Good's supposition is correct. We find the doctrine in full bloom with the Egyptians, but not a trace of it among the early Hebrews. But, singularly enough, when, in after ages, the Jews had become corrupted, and had departed from the Law of Moses, we find the doctrine among them. And, what is very noteworthy, as the next chapter will show, its first appearance is in apocryphal books written by Egyptian Jews. So that the facts happen to be the very opposite of Dr. Good's theory; - instead of the Egyptians borrowing it from the Jews, the Jews borrowed it from the Egyptians.

In attempting to set out the Egyptian notions on the subject, it is difficult to choose between the conflicting accounts of the Greek writers, Herodotus, Diodorus Siculus, Plutarch, &c., as well as of the modern interpreters of the monumental hieroglyphics. Still, with regard to the main question, they are tolerably well agreed, though there is great diversity of opinion in respect to the details. It is plain enough, from their united testimony, that the whole matter of judgment after death, the rewards of a good life, and the punishments of a bad life, with all the formal solemnities of trial and condemnation, originated and was perfected among the Egyptians, according to the peculiar character of their mythology. From them it was borrowed by the Greeks, who made such changes and additions as fitted the system to the genius and circumstances of that people.

It would seem that each district of Egypt had what was called its "sacred lake," beyond which were the tombs and burial-places of the dead. Acherusia, the lake near Memphis, was the model probably for the rest, and appears to have furnished a general name for them.

When any one died, it was the duty of his relations, according to Diodorus, to notify the forty-two judges or assessors, whose office it was to decide upon the character of the deceased, and then to appoint the day for the funeral ceremonies and burial. When the day came, the body of the dead was carried in procession to the shore of the lake, from which it could not be removed till after the judgment. The forty-two judges, having been summoned, were in waiting at the place of embarkation, to receive the body, and enter on the trial. It was then lawful, for any person who thought proper, to bring charges against the deceased; and if it was proved that he had led an evil life, the judges condemned him for his wickedness, and refused him the privilege of burial, which was regarded as one of the greatest possible calamities. But if those accusing the dead failed to establish their accusations, they were subjected to the heaviest penalties.

If there was no accuser, or the charges were disproved, then his relations were allowed to pronounce the accustomed eulogy, praising his piety and goodness, celebrating his virtues, and declaring the excellent life which he had lived. This was followed by a prayer supplicating the gods of the under-world to receive him into the society of the blessed. Then came the acclamations of the multitude assembled on the occasion, who united in extolling the character of the dead, and in rejoicing that he was now going to join the virtuous in the regions of Amenti or Hades.

This over, the body was placed in the funeral boat, under the direction of Horus, the ferryman of the dead, and borne across the lake to its place of sepulture. This done, the ceremonies of the occasion closed.

The bodies of those who had been refused burial were carried back by the family, and the coffins set up against the wall of the house. The spirit could not be at rest until the body was buried. "The duration of this punishment was limited," says Wilkinson, "according to the extent of crimes of which the accused had been guilty. When the devotion of friends, aided by liberal donations in the service of religion, and the influential prayers of the priests, had sufficiently softened the otherwise inexorable nature of the gods, the period of this state of purgatory was doubtless shortened." 8

Beside this judgment on earth, it appears there was another after the dead entered the regions of Amenti or Hades. For what reason, we cannot say, except the judges of the invisible world were a kind of superior court, who examined the case anew, with the view of correcting any errors of the previous trial.

Sir J.G. Wilkinson informs us that "the judgment scenes found in the tombs and on the papyri, sometimes represent the deceased conducted by Horus to the region of AmentI Cerberus is present as the guardian of the gates, near which the scales of justice were erected. Anubis, 'the director of the weight,' having placed a vase representing the good actions, or the heart of the deceased, in one scale, and the figure or emblem of truth in the other, proceeds to ascertain his claims for admission. If, on being 'weighed,' he is 'found wanting,' he is rejected; and Osiris, the judge of the dead, inclining the scepter in token of condemnation, pronounces judgment upon him, and condemns his soul to return to earth under the form of a pig, or some other unclean animal. Placed in a boat, it is removed, under the charge of two monkeys, from the precincts of Amenti, all communication with which is figuratively cut off by a man who hews away the earth with an ax after its passage; and the commencement of a new term of life is indicated by the monkeys, the emblems of Thoth, as Time. But if, when the sum of his deeds have been recorded, his virtues so far predominate as to entitle him to admission to the mansions of the blessed, Horus introduces him to Osiris." 9

It is with this judgment, at the point where the condemned soul is sent back again to the earth in the form of an animal, that the doctrine of transmigration seems to connect itself...
 

Hobie

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...According to Herodotus, the Egyptians believed the soul would pass from one body to another, till it had performed the circuit of all animals, terrestrial, marine, and birds of the air; when it again takes up its abode in the human body. This transmigration it was supposed would fill up a period of three thousand years.

There is great diversity of opinion in regard to the particulars of this curious arrangement, but the leading idea appears to have been the punishment of the wicked; for the wicked only, according to some authorities, were subject to it, the good and pious being received immediately, on the burial of the body, into rest, or returning to the Good Being whence they emanated. And it would seem, according to Wilkinson, that it was only the ordinarily wicked, not the very worst, who were condemned to this purgatory. He thinks that the monuments show "that the souls which underwent transmigration were those of men whose sins were of a sufficiently moderate kind to admit of that purification; the unpardonable sinner being condemned to eternal fire," by which he means endless fire.

These records of the ancient Greeks, confirmed by the monuments as illustrated by modern scholars, open to us the origin of the doctrines of a judgment after death, and of future endless rewards and punishments, for the good or evil deeds of this life. From the Egyptians it passed, with suitable modifications, to the Greeks and Romans. Diodorus himself clearly shows that the fables of the Acherusian lake, of Hecate, Cerberus, Charon, and the Styx, have their original in these Egyptian ceremonies and doctrines.

And Professor Stuart, in a note to Greppo's Essay on Hieroglyphics, accepts the statement of Spineto, that the Amenti of the Egyptians originated the classic fables of Hades and Tartarus, Charon, Pluto, the judges of hell, the dog Cerberus, the Chimeras, Harpies, Gorgons, Furies, "and other such unnatural and horrible things with which the Greeks and Romans peopled their fantastic hell."
It is curious to note the exactness of the copy in many particulars. The Egyptian Acherusia gives us the Greek Acheron, and perhaps Styx. The Egyptian Tartar, significant of the lamentations of relatives over the dead refused burial on account of their wicked lives, furnishes the Greek Tartarus, where the wicked are punished. The funeral boat across the lake, the ferryman, and the gold piece in the mouth of the dead, give rise to Charon, his boat, and fee, and the passage across the Styx into Hades. The cemetery beyond the lake, surrounded by trees, called by the Egyptians Elisout or Elisaeus, is the original of the Greek Elysian Fields, the abode of the blessed. The three infernal judges, Minos, Aeacus, Rhadamanthus, are borrowed from the Egyptian judges of the dead; and the heads of animals symbolizing these judges, mistaken by the Greeks, are changed into monster Gorgons, Harpies, Furies, &c.

But, as I have remarked, though the Greeks borrowed, they altered and improved. And, true to that individualism which was so marked a characteristic of that people, they are not satisfied with the Egyptian method of generalizing respecting the punishments of the wicked, but begin specifying particular sinners, and particular kinds of punishment adapted to particular offenses. Hence the fables of Ixion, Tantalus, Tityrus, &c., whose torments in the infernal regions are mentioned in the beginning of this chapter. Everything must be sharp, pointed, and dramatic, to suit the lively genius of the Greek; and the terrors of the invisible world must be presented in a way to strike the imagination in the most powerful manner, and produce some direct result on the individual and on society.

The whole thing is designed for effect, to influence the multitude, to restrain their passions, and to aid the magistrate and ruler in keeping them subject to authority. It is the invention of priests and law-makers, who take this as the easiest method of governing the people. They claim the "right divine" to govern; claim that their laws originate with the gods, as we have shown above; and that, therefore, the gods will visit on all offenders the terrors and tortures of the damned. Hence, through the joint cunning of priest and legislator, of church and state, mutually supporting each the other, we have all the stupendous frauds and falsehoods respecting the invisible world.

But, without further remarks of my own, I will introduce the testimony of the heathen themselves on this point, and those the best informed among them, who will tell their own story in their own way. One preliminary observation, however, partly made already, I wish to repeat; and I desire the reader to have it always in mind: The rulers and magistrates, or priests, invent these terrors to keep the people, the masses, in subjection; the people religiously believe in them; while the inventors, of course, and the educated classes, the priests and the philosophers, though they teach them to the multitude, have themselves no manner of faith in them.

1. Polybius, the historian, says: "Since the multitude is ever fickle, full of lawless desires, irrational passions and violence, there is no other way to keep them in order but by the fear and terror of the invisible world; on which account our ancestors seem to me to have acted judiciously, when they contrived to bring into the popular belief these notions of the gods, and of the infernal regions." B. vi 56.

2. Dionysius Halicarnassus treats the whole matter as useful, but not as true. Antiq. Rom., B. ii

3. Livy, the celebrated historian, speaks of it in the same spirit; and he praises the wisdom of Numa, because he invented the fear of the gods, as "a most efficacious means of governing an ignorant and barbarous populace." Hist., I 19.

4. Strabo, the geographer, says: "The multitude are restrained from vice by the punishments the gods are said to inflict upon offenders, and by those terrors and threatenings which certain dreadful words and monstrous forms imprint upon their minds...For it is impossible to govern the crowd of women, and all the common rabble, by philosophical reasoning, and lead them to piety, holiness and virtue - but this must be done by superstition, or the fear of the gods, by means of fables and wonders; for the thunder, the aegis, the trident, the torches (of the Furies), the dragons, &c., are all fables, as is also all the ancient theology. These things the legislators used as scarecrows to terrify the childish multitude." Geog., B. I

5. Timaeus Locrus, the Pythagorean, after stating that the doctrine of rewards and punishments after death is necessary to society, proceeds as follows: "For as we sometimes cure the body with unwholesome remedies, when such as are most wholesome produce no effect, so we restrain those minds with false relations, which will not be persuaded by the truth. There is a necessity, therefore, of instilling the dread of those foreign torments: 10as that the soul changes its habitation; that the coward is ignominiously thrust into the body of a woman; the murderer imprisoned within the form of a savage beast; the vain and inconstant changed into birds, and the slothful and ignorant into fishes."

6. Plato, in his commentary on Timaeus, fully endorses what he says respecting the fabulous invention of these foreign torments. And Strabo says that "Plato and the Brahmins of India invented fables concerning the future judgments of hell" (Hades). And Chrysippus blames Plato for attempting to deter men from wrong by frightful stories of future punishments.

Plato himself is exceedingly inconsistent, sometimes adopting, even in his serious discourses, the fables of the poets, and at other times rejecting them as utterly false, and giving too frightful views of the invisible world. Sometimes, he argues, on social grounds, that they are necessary to restrain bad men from wickedness and crime, and then again he protests against them on political grounds, as intimidating the citizens, and making cowards of the soldiers, who, believing these things, are afraid of death, and do not therefore fight well. But all this shows in what light he regarded them; not as truths, certainly, but as fictions, convenient in some cases, but difficult to manage in others.

7. Plutarch treats the subject in the same way; sometimes arguing for them with great solemnity and earnestness, and on other occasions calling them "fabulous stories, the tales of mothers and nurses."

8. Seneca says: "Those things which make the infernal regions terrible, the darkness, the prison, the river of flaming fire, the judgment seat, &c., are all a fable, with which the poets amuse themselves, and by them agitate us with vain terrors." Sextus Empiricus calls them "poetic fables of hell;" and Cicero speaks of them as "silly absurdities and fables" (ineptiis ac fabulis).

9. Aristotle. "It has been handed down in mythical form from earliest times to posterity, that there are gods, and that the divine (Deity) compasses all nature. All beside this has been added, after the mythical style, for the purpose of persuading the multitude, and for the interests of the laws, and the advantage of the state." Neander's Church Hist., I, p. 7. ...http://godfire.net/Doctrine_of_Endless_Punishment.htm"
 

Taken

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There are those who say that if you are acquainted with the Bible and deny the eternal punishment of the wicked, you are not honest.

I would say it requires “understanding” according to God…

Yes, the “punishment” of the wicked is ‘eternal’

No, the “wicked” do not “suffer” eternal “punishMENT”.

if the judgment of the wicked is not forever, then salvation of the saints is not forever, because the term of forever is used of both.
.

Not so. The “wicked’s” condition of judgement is Not dependent upon the “saints” condition of judgement.

So is the judgment of the wicked forever or can they escape it by doing a little time in the fires of hell as some teach.

The “judgement” of the Wicked is “forever”
No. There is “no option” for forgiveness..AFTER judgement.

Can the Devil as a being created by God, also continue forever then in a abode under the ground,

Yes.

and sin continue,

Yes.

I would say not.

Disagree

WHY?
* Defining what “words mean”…

* saint…is a human with a “saved soul”
(….saints ARE NOT…the Lord God, angels, or humans without a saved soul.)
* A saint, IS forever WITH the Lord God.

* Wicked applies to a human who rejects God.
* evil ARE fallen angels..IS also the behavioral Acts of fallen angels…

* a Fallen angel is a spirit, created holy, created to Serve God, created to also minister and guide humans….All angels (like all humans have Freewill) … A Fallen angel, has exercised his own freewill … to reject Gods holy purpose for that angel…They instead serve themselves to instigate, trick, fool humans to ALSO reject Gods holy purpose for ‘any’ human.
~ Those Fallen angels have forfeited, lost their status of holy to demonic, lost their estate of heaven to earth, lost their standing to forever Be WITH the Lord God and He Be WITH them.

* Judgement is the Pronouncement of A SENTENCE.
* Sentence is the “effect” (consequence) of the Judgement.
* The “Consequence” is according to EVIDENCE.
* The “EVIDENCE” is according to “Records”.
(Jesus IS Judge
(The Hearing/Court is God court
(The “accused” stands before the Judge.
(The “accused’ “Hears” the “accusation”.
(The “records” / books of “evidence” are opened.
(Gods Book of Life…accused’s name was recorded from before his natural birth.
“IF” the “accused” rejected God…God rejected him, and blotted out his name.)
(Lamb’s Book of Life…accused’s name ONLY appears in the Lamb’s Book..IF…the accused was Baptized WITH the Holy Spirit “BY” the Lamb of God, (who IS the Baptizer OF the Holy Spirit).
“IF” the accused was NOT Baptized by the Lamb, the accused’s Name would be absent from THAT evidence.
( the Accused’s NAME, being ABSENT from the Evidence of Gods Book of Life (blotted out) and the Lambs Book of Life (never entered)….Reveals in the EVIDENCE…that INDIVIDUAL IS NOT “with the Lord God”…

* Witness…to the TRIAL…(the 12 Apostles)…
(Modernly we call that A JURY of 12 appointed to HEAR the EVIDENCE, and JUDGE if the Evidence is sufficient, true, trustworthy….and RENDER “their” judgement.
(The “Witnesses”record “their Judgement”…of “guilty” or “not guiltY’…
THAT ‘record’ is given the JUDGE..
“Guilty”? The Judge Reads to the causes and pronounces the VERDICT…
Be it ”GUILTY”
THEN, shall the JUDGE, pronounce the SENTENCE FOR the accused to HEAR.
THEN shall the SENTENCE be “carried out”.

PUNISHMENT…for a guilty man IS Forever….No appeals, No do overs, No excuses…

SO…..WHAT EXACTLY is that individuals FOREVER PUNISHMENT?

1) Separation FROM the Lord God FOREVER…..YES!
2) Place FOR his Separation FROM the Lord God FOREVER…..(underworld)… YES!
3) SUFFERING FOREVER? NO!


Why, How, can that “man” NOT SUFFER FOREVER” ?

“ONLY something that HAS LIFE “IN” IT “CAN FEEL the EFFECTS of a Punishment, thus the LIVING thing experiences SUFFER-ING”.

Human men DO NOT FACE FOREVER “SUFFERING”…
Their body…is Dead…
The Life in their soul returns to God…
Thus their soul…is Dead.
Their spirit was NeVeR born again…
Those their natural spirit (truth in their heart), of a mans seed….Died with their body…
Thus…the SENTENCE, applies to their…
….Dead lifeless body…
….Dead lifeless soul…
Which…
IS, thrown into a Lake of Fire…FOREVER…

So …HOW is that LIFELESS burnt to ash body and soul “FOREVER SUFFERING”?

It ISN”T….
AND THAT…”IS” an express revelation of Gods “Grace and Mercy”….to an “undeserving” man….being THAT God DEPARTS ALL LIFE From a man…that he suffer NOT FOREVER for “rejecting” the Lord God.

(AND THAT DOES NOT APPLY to “Angels”)…
Humans “HAVE” a spirit.
Angels “ARE” spirits and can NOT die.

*** AND to the Point…
Of a man WHO DOES receive the Baptism of the Lamb of God, OF the Holy Spirit….
MEANS…that mans natural spirit born of a mans seed, HAS received the SEED of God which BIRTHS the man A SPIRIT THAT “ALSO” (like the angels)…can NEVER DIE…

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Grailhunter

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"...The word Hell, in the Old Testament, is always a translation of the Hebrew word Sheol, which occurs sixty-four times, and is rendered "hell" thirty-two times, "grave" twenty-nine times, and "pit" three times.
Again the word Hell or anyplace like is not in the Old Testament.
God did not threaten the Jews with Hell and so it is the Jews even today do not believe in Hell or the devil.

If you have words like Hell, Hades, wed or wedding or fornication in your Bible, I recommend finding a more accurate translation. Hades is a Greek word that has no place in a hebrew text and it is not. The word Hell comes from the Anglo Saxons in the eighth century AD, so of course the word Hell does not appear in the scriptures.

Sheol can mean spiritual place where they gathered with their fathers. Or it can mean the grave and then again can be described in different ways.
 
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Jack

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The words Hell and Hades do not appear in the Old or New Testaments and the Hebrew language did not have words for them.

Hades is a Greco-Roman god that presided over a realm called Hades. More of a spirit prison than a place of torment.

Sheol is more or less a depository for nearly all souls.

The word Hell is from Anglo Saxon and then German around 725 AD.

Full explanation in posts 5….26…..58….64
Who declared you a Bible language expert? You maybe?
 

Grailhunter

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Who declared you a Bible language expert? You maybe?
As a matter of fact I am a theologian…..educated in five countries.

But as Trinity said….I am nobody.

All that matters is that I am right.

Check it out.
 

Jack

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As a matter of fact I am a theologian…..educated in five countries.

But as Trinity said….I am nobody.

All that matters is that I am right.

Check it out.
So YOU declare yourself a Bible language expert. I've checked out nearly 40 English translations and they all say you're wrong. Jesus is God, "the Almighty". Hmm
 

Grailhunter

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So YOU declare yourself a Bible language expert. I've checked out nearly 40 English translations and they all say you're wrong. Jesus is God, "the Almighty". Hmm

A lot of effort just to be dead wrong.
If your study on such a simple subject as this is so wrong, there is no telling what else you believe.
 

Grailhunter

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Sounds like you alright!

It's easy to know what I believe. It's called the Christian Bible!

I know this lingo, you are trying to confuse people.

The scriptures do not explain the non-biblical words that the translators put in the bible during the 17th century.

Everybody else can look all this up and confirm it for yourselves.
 

Jack

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I know this lingo, you are trying to confuse people.
You don't need my help for that.
The scriptures do not explain the non-biblical words that the translators put in the bible during the 17th century.

Everybody else can look all this up and confirm it for yourselves.
So, all of our Bibles are WRONG and you are right?
 

Grailhunter

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You don't need my help for that.

So, all of our Bibles are WRONG and you are right?

I did not say all the Bibles are wrong, just the ones that are wrong.
Bibles that have non biblical words in them. A lot of times these words sneak in meanings and understandings that are not supported by the scriptures.
 

Jack

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I did not say all the Bibles are wrong, just the ones that are wrong.
Bibles that have non biblical words in them. A lot of times these words sneak in meanings and understandings that are not supported by the scriptures.
So you believe Jesus is God and Hell is FOREVER???
 

Hobie

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I would say it requires “understanding” according to God…

Yes, the “punishment” of the wicked is ‘eternal’

No, the “wicked” do not “suffer” eternal “punishMENT”.

.

Not so. The “wicked’s” condition of judgement is Not dependent upon the “saints” condition of judgement.



The “judgement” of the Wicked is “forever”
No. There is “no option” for forgiveness..AFTER judgement.



Yes.



Yes.



Disagree

WHY?
* Defining what “words mean”…

* saint…is a human with a “saved soul”
(….saints ARE NOT…the Lord God, angels, or humans without a saved soul.)
* A saint, IS forever WITH the Lord God.

* Wicked applies to a human who rejects God.
* evil ARE fallen angels..IS also the behavioral Acts of fallen angels…

* a Fallen angel is a spirit, created holy, created to Serve God, created to also minister and guide humans….All angels (like all humans have Freewill) … A Fallen angel, has exercised his own freewill … to reject Gods holy purpose for that angel…They instead serve themselves to instigate, trick, fool humans to ALSO reject Gods holy purpose for ‘any’ human.
~ Those Fallen angels have forfeited, lost their status of holy to demonic, lost their estate of heaven to earth, lost their standing to forever Be WITH the Lord God and He Be WITH them.

* Judgement is the Pronouncement of A SENTENCE.
* Sentence is the “effect” (consequence) of the Judgement.
* The “Consequence” is according to EVIDENCE.
* The “EVIDENCE” is according to “Records”.
(Jesus IS Judge
(The Hearing/Court is God court
(The “accused” stands before the Judge.
(The “accused’ “Hears” the “accusation”.
(The “records” / books of “evidence” are opened.
(Gods Book of Life…accused’s name was recorded from before his natural birth.
“IF” the “accused” rejected God…God rejected him, and blotted out his name.)
(Lamb’s Book of Life…accused’s name ONLY appears in the Lamb’s Book..IF…the accused was Baptized WITH the Holy Spirit “BY” the Lamb of God, (who IS the Baptizer OF the Holy Spirit).
“IF” the accused was NOT Baptized by the Lamb, the accused’s Name would be absent from THAT evidence.
( the Accused’s NAME, being ABSENT from the Evidence of Gods Book of Life (blotted out) and the Lambs Book of Life (never entered)….Reveals in the EVIDENCE…that INDIVIDUAL IS NOT “with the Lord God”…

* Witness…to the TRIAL…(the 12 Apostles)…
(Modernly we call that A JURY of 12 appointed to HEAR the EVIDENCE, and JUDGE if the Evidence is sufficient, true, trustworthy….and RENDER “their” judgement.
(The “Witnesses”record “their Judgement”…of “guilty” or “not guiltY’…
THAT ‘record’ is given the JUDGE..
“Guilty”? The Judge Reads to the causes and pronounces the VERDICT…
Be it ”GUILTY”
THEN, shall the JUDGE, pronounce the SENTENCE FOR the accused to HEAR.
THEN shall the SENTENCE be “carried out”.

PUNISHMENT…for a guilty man IS Forever….No appeals, No do overs, No excuses…

SO…..WHAT EXACTLY is that individuals FOREVER PUNISHMENT?

1) Separation FROM the Lord God FOREVER…..YES!
2) Place FOR his Separation FROM the Lord God FOREVER…..(underworld)… YES!
3) SUFFERING FOREVER? NO!


Why, How, can that “man” NOT SUFFER FOREVER” ?

“ONLY something that HAS LIFE “IN” IT “CAN FEEL the EFFECTS of a Punishment, thus the LIVING thing experiences SUFFER-ING”.


Human men DO NOT FACE FOREVER “SUFFERING”…
Their body…is Dead…
The Life in their soul returns to God…
Thus their soul…is Dead.
Their spirit was NeVeR born again…
Those their natural spirit (truth in their heart), of a mans seed….Died with their body…
Thus…the SENTENCE, applies to their…
….Dead lifeless body…
….Dead lifeless soul…
Which…
IS, thrown into a Lake of Fire…FOREVER…

So …HOW is that LIFELESS burnt to ash body and soul “FOREVER SUFFERING”?

It ISN”T….
AND THAT…”IS” an express revelation of Gods “Grace and Mercy”….to an “undeserving” man….being THAT God DEPARTS ALL LIFE From a man…that he suffer NOT FOREVER for “rejecting” the Lord God.

(AND THAT DOES NOT APPLY to “Angels”)…
Humans “HAVE” a spirit.
Angels “ARE” spirits and can NOT die.

*** AND to the Point…
Of a man WHO DOES receive the Baptism of the Lamb of God, OF the Holy Spirit….
MEANS…that mans natural spirit born of a mans seed, HAS received the SEED of God which BIRTHS the man A SPIRIT THAT “ALSO” (like the angels)…can NEVER DIE…

Glory to God,
Taken
The punishment is eternal separation from God, but the wicked dont get eternal life as the fires dont burn forever. It is the second death at the lake of fire where God will destroy sin and sinners and the wicked will cease to exists in its fire...

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
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Taken

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The punishment is eternal separation from God,

Agree.

Issue is: Uninformed People, state, then complain; PEOPLE will be “tormented for ever and ever IN Hell.

TORMENT is a physically and mental SUFFERING.

SUFFERING is the negative effects FEELING from torments.

Bodies DEAD without life…
Souls DEAD without life…
Know and Fell NOTHING.

Departed (out of dead bodies) “unsaved” Living souls SHALL suffer Separation IN HELL from God…(and Gods Blessings…of:
Beautiful things ON Earth, they did experience while denying it was FROM God)…Beautiful things they could SEE, HEAR, SMELL, TASTE, TOUCH, FEEL…

* After Judgement of PEOPLE, their LIFELESS body and LIFELESS soul shall be Destroyed…
Dead body’s, Dead soul’s….DO NOT “SUFFER” for ever and ever…
** Gods MERCY toward ungodly men**

* After the fallen celestial beings (spirits, ie angels that can Never Die) are Defeated in Spiritual war-fare, (after the 1,000 yr reign)…
THOSE spirits are condemned to the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever.

but the wicked dont get eternal life as the fires dont burn forever

The “wicked” is primarily an application to men. (Meaning they were given the Truth, and chose to Reject the Truth)

The “evil” is primarily an application to fallen angels. (Meaning they were created with having the Truth, and chose to Reject the Truth)

The Lake of Fire was Prepared FOR fallen Evil Angels, and the Lake of Fire DOES burn forever…and the smoke thereof rise up forever… They ARE remembered and the rising smoke is the reminder.

The fallen Angels IN the Lake of Fire…ARE forever tormented. They can NOT DIE.
* a mans lifeless body and lifeless soul (and all works that did NOT Glorify God)…shall ALL be “burn up”…and forgotten.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Grailhunter

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The punishment is eternal separation from God, but the wicked dont get eternal life as the fires dont burn forever. It is the second death at the lake of fire where God will destroy sin and sinners and the wicked will cease to exists in its fire...

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell? Lucky for you hell is only temporary! Then you will be cast into the Lake of Fire and burnt up which is the second death, the death of oblivion. Matthew 66:666

LOL...Boy don’t they wish the scriptures said something like this.
 

Ronald Nolette

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The punishment is eternal separation from God, but the wicked dont get eternal life as the fires dont burn forever. It is the second death at the lake of fire where God will destroy sin and sinners and the wicked will cease to exists in its fire...

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
You even quoted the Scripture which refutes you rposition! Rev. 20:14 describes the second death! Death and the grave being destroyed in to the lake of fire before people are cast into it is the second death. Not people being burned up and ceasing to exist. People will suffer forever in the lake of fire, that is the bible.

And in Rev. 21 that word "part" is meros and in this case refers to their habitation. Once again the second death is described in rev. 20. It is death and teh grave being cast first into teh lake of fire.
 

Hobie

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You even quoted the Scripture which refutes you rposition! Rev. 20:14 describes the second death! Death and the grave being destroyed in to the lake of fire before people are cast into it is the second death. Not people being burned up and ceasing to exist. People will suffer forever in the lake of fire, that is the bible.

And in Rev. 21 that word "part" is meros and in this case refers to their habitation. Once again the second death is described in rev. 20. It is death and teh grave being cast first into teh lake of fire.
It is a punishment at the lake of fire that separates the wicked from God completely and forever, never for them to rise up again. For the wicked, the fire will not stop till it burns them completely and absolutely and thus is unquenchable, because it will not be quenched, or caused to cease, till it has entirely devoured them.

Psalm 37:20: “But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs; they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”
Malachi 4:3: “And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the souls of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.”

The Bible confirms it, "For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch ... And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1,3.

The eternal fire burns up eternally, so the wicked will die forever. Even Satan, the root of evil, is finally consumed. Ellen White points out that Ezekiel speaks of unquenchable fire in a similar manner.

“Thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree; the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein. And all flesh shall see that I the Lord have kindled it; it shall not be quenched.” Ezekiel 20:47, 48:
 

Ronald Nolette

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It is a punishment at the lake of fire that separates the wicked from God completely and forever, never for them to rise up again. For the wicked, the fire will not stop till it burns them completely and absolutely and thus is unquenchable, because it will not be quenched, or caused to cease, till it has entirely devoured them.
YOu need to stop redefining words and accept them for what they mean. The fires are unquenchable because God said they are. YOu added the rest of that and it is not found in Scripture.

un·quench·a·ble
[ˌənˈkwen(t)SHəb(ə)l]
adjective

not able to be quenched:



Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark ofhis name.

Gods Word disagrees with you.

And you should seek to learn that the verses you quoted are about their bodies and ot souls and spirits and immortal bodies they receive at the final resurrection.

Remember before a single soul gets thrown in to teh lake of fire- two things are first destroyed

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.