A few shall be left

[VictoryinJesus]

It’s not my doctrine, it is the words of God that I posted…
But a few of the flesh and blood mortals shall be left,
Isaiah 24:6
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Any one can post the words and say it is what the word says…yet it’s their interpretation. You are interpreting the few …yes it says “few men left”. But you are interpreting who are the few are. Where if anyone disagrees then they are not disagreeing with your interpretation, but instead disagreeing with what is written. Baffles me that this is the same that you get frustrated with of those who interpret what is the bread and what it means to eat of His flesh and drink of His blood.

I agree with the questions presented to you: what of no one will escape? Yet, He provides a way to escape? What is that way?

Do you even consider the pass over? What of those in that passage that are told to go inside their chambers and shut the door until it passes over? Is there no pause in could it be that is how they escape? Are they hiding in a closet? Underneath a car and a few mortals come out of hiding, to see it’s passed over. A few animals left in the doomsday scene like in a movie, where a few find some clever place to hide while a literal fire burns every thing and everyone…except a few mortal men and a few animals? The volcanic fire of Pompeii …they found a wealthy couple who barred themselves in a secret room with all their prized belongings. Their burnt bodies were mummified in their hiding position. What you are proposing is an entire earth Fire where a few escape. Escape to where??

How can you not see this is adding your own interpretation to who the few are? I really don’t get it except it must be to hold onto your perspective on the end times. If one area fails, like dominos it will all fall down. That is not a bad thing.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

How can you not see this is adding your own interpretation to who the few are? I really don’t get it except it must be to hold onto your perspective on the end times. If one area fails, like dominos it will all fall down. That is not a bad thing.

That is not the only proof text that shows a few men are left. When you understand the prophecy of the battle of Gog and Magog you will know some of the People from the Nations that came against Israel at the battle of Armageddon are left. The Lord calls them the sixth part here…

Ezekiel 39:2
And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is not the only proof text that shows a few men are left. When you understand the prophecy of the battle of Gog and Magog you will know some of the People from the Nations that came against Israel at the battle of Armageddon are left. The Lord calls them the sixth part here…

Ezekiel 39:2
And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

Once again you are pitting scripture against scripture and causing contradictions. Why do you do that? Have you no shame? Your interpretation of Ezekiel 39:2 directly contradicts what John wrote here:

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

How does the destruction of "all people, free and slave, great and small" equate to 5/6ths of certain people that supposedly literally go to an earthly place called Armageddon to battle? It doesn't. Clearly, you're taking Ezekiel 39:2 out of context and John himself would laugh at your interpretation of it.

Stewardofthemystery Premil Twisted Scripture Translation:

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of five sixths of the kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and not the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

It's as if you think you know better than the authors of the NT how the OT prophecies should be understood. They clearly did not have the same understanding of those prophecies as you do. You should trust that John knew what he was writing about when he said "all people" instead of "five sixths of people". It's hilarious that no

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Once again you are pitting scripture against scripture and causing contradictions. Why do you do that? Have you no shame? Your interpretation of Ezekiel 39:2 directly contradicts what John wrote here:

Revelation 19:17

Rev 20 happens AFTER Rev. 19. How do you explain all these unbelievers coming against the camp of the saints at the Holy City on earth after the second coming….

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

Where do all these unbelievers come from if all men were destroyed in Rev 19?

Who are these whose lives are prolonged during the thousand years….

Daniel 7:12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Amils will try to use smoke and mirrors in order to explain these truths away.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 20 happens AFTER Rev. 19. How do you explain all these unbelievers coming against the camp of the saints at the Holy City on earth after the second coming….

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

Where do all these unbelievers come from if all men were destroyed in Rev 19?

You are assuming that Rev 20 happens after Rev 19. I disagree with that. Hello? Did you somehow not already know this? It seems that you have no interest in making any attempt to understand Amil. You are trying to debate against something of which you have no understanding. It's like you trying to debate a brain surgeon and telling him that his techniques are wrong while knowing nothing about it.

Who are these whose lives are prolonged during the thousand years….

Daniel 7:12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Amils will try to use smoke and mirrors in order to explain these truths away.

LOL. You are so ignorant. Do you not know that the four beasts of Daniel 7 represent world kingdoms (Daniel 7:23)?

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

You think 3 world kingdoms survive Christ's second coming? So much for "few men left". LOL. That would be a lot more than just a few men left if 3 kingdoms survive His second coming. But, you don't care about context, so you completely missed this detail.

You have failed to look at the context of Daniel 7. I've already told you before that verse 12 is a parenthetical verse relating to the first 3 of the 4 successive kingdoms (world empires) that are referenced in Daniel 7.

The NIV translators understood this.

Daniel 7:11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

It's referring to 3 historical world empires that the four beasts represent (Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and Rome). The first 3 each still existed for a period of time after losing their power.

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Can you see here how the fourth beast succeeded the first three beasts that were before it? This has absolutely nothing to do with mortal people who survive the second coming of Christ.

You still have failed to explain why some unbelievers will survive His second coming with the rest being killed. What is it about them that's different than the rest and would allow them to survive? If you can't even answer this question, then you can't expect to be taken seriously.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

You are assuming that Rev 20 happens after Rev 19. I disagree with that. Hello?

It’s no assumption, it is a fact. Amil tries take make Rev 20 about Christs resurrection which happened 2,000 years prior. The Catholic Church which started the false Amil doctrine believed themselves to be reigning over the world, but they were puffed up in their own imagination.

Did you somehow not already know this? It seems that you have no interest in making any attempt to understand Amil.

What is there to understand about lies? I already know that no lie is of the Truth.

You are trying to debate against something of which you have no understanding.

I understand what a lie is, it is the opposite of the Truth

It's like you trying to debate a brain surgeon and telling him that his techniques are wrong while knowing nothing about it.

ROFL! Don’t flatter yourself. Lol!

You are so ignorant.

I’m not ignorant of the tactics of the enemy.

You have failed to look at the context of Daniel 7.

Daniel 7:11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

You fail to understand the time line of events.
Daniel 7:11 is a match to Rev. 19:20

Daniel 7:11​

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King James Version​

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11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

This prophecy is confirmed here in Rev. 19:20…

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone”

This confirms the timing of what happens next in Daniel 7:12….

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

This confirms what happens in Rev. Chapter 20. This “season and a time” is the thousand years mentioned in Rev. 20.

After the battle of Armageddon shown in Rev. 19 the kingdoms of this world become the Kingdoms of God and of Christ. That is why it shows at that time “they had their dominion taken away”.

But if you will notice not all the rest of the beasts were cast into the lake of fire at that time, but as it is written “yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time”

This proves that some of those people from the other nations had “ their lives prolonged” meaning they were not killed at that time.

These are the remnant of the nations who will be deceived after the thousand years are expired….

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

The Truth is easy to defend when you have Christ as your Teacher.

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[VictoryinJesus]

That is not the only proof text that shows a few men are left. When you understand the prophecy of the battle of Gog and Magog you will know some of the People from the Nations that came against Israel at the battle of Armageddon are left. The Lord calls them the sixth part here…

Ezekiel 39:2
And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

I get you say you are looking at the whole picture. I get you genuinely say to fits with all the context as a whole. As much as you believe this …it became apparent to me that we have such a varied perspective that it’s pointless to debate who “few men left” are. When we even disagree on what Fire it is that burns the majority where there are only few men left. The literal interpretation makes no sense to me…saying it is a literal fire that destroys and only a few are left. I can see how a few are left if it’s not a literal fire… so how can we agree on who the few left are …when we even disagree on what Fire consumes the earth? We say if this is dissolved …this house we being weak have a treasure given from heaven, given of God. Where if this house…weak vessel is dissolved we have a Vessel that comes down from God which will not be dissolved.

For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge(highlighting that because Christ comes so that they may have knowledge) . I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void(empty, in vain, unprofitable); and the heavens, and they had no light(I come that they who sit in darkness may be given Light). I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man(I, John, wept because no man was found, behold there stood a Lamb), and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD(is His presence a literal Fire?), and by his fierce anger. For thus has the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.(is this what you mean by there are few men left?) For this shall the earth mourn(for a few mortal men make it through the Fire? The earth will mourn..or will the earth mourn that only few men remain, the whole land desolate ?) and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein. And when you are a spoiled, what will you do?(why ask them what they will do when they are spoiled by a literal fire, if they all be dead except a few men? Does it matter what they will do after being spoiled by a literal fire…it is for His mercy we are not consumed ?) Though you clothe yourself with crimson, though you deck yourself with ornaments of gold, though you rent your face with painting(sounds like the Pharisees), in vain(desolation) shall you make yourself fair; Your lovers will despise you, they will seek your life.

Surly the ornaments of gold …and renting your face with painting is with falsehoods of taking the best seats in the upper rooms (where there are many rooms in His Fathers House)and their long speeches to appear as something they are not…He even told them there house was left unto them desolate…was He telling them about a building or that they were dead men within? That house …that vessel…made desolate? he even called it open graves which do not appear and men walk over them not aware they walk over graves. What is and God will open your graves…? To me it’s the heart He opens as Saul’s was open and Christ called Paul to come forth in newness of Life. That grave opened..called out from death into Life. has God did what He said in “I will open your graves”? “Then you will know that I am God.”

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I get you say you are looking at the whole picture. I get you genuinely say to fits with all the context as a whole. As much as you believe this …it became apparent to me that we have such a varied perspective that it’s pointless to debate who “few men left” are. When we even disagree on what Fire it is that burns the majority where there are only few men left. The literal interpretation makes no sense to me…saying it is a literal fire that destroys and only a few are left. I can see how a few are left if it’s not a literal fire… so how can we agree on who the few left are …when we even disagree on what Fire consumes the earth?

The main point of the thread is not about if the fire is literal or symbolic, but it is about God allowing a few men to be left on earth after its destruction to fulfill His will. This is about future prophecy as I pointed out in the above post…

God will prolong the life for a remnant of the Nations during the thousand year reign of Christ on earth with His saints.

Daniel 7:11 is a match to Rev. 19:20

Daniel 7:11​

King James Version​

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

This prophecy is confirmed here in Rev. 19:20…

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone”

This confirms the timing of what happens next in Daniel 7:12….

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

This confirms what happens in Rev. Chapter 20. This “season and a time” is the thousand years mentioned in Rev. 20.

After the battle of Armageddon shown in Rev. 19 the kingdoms of this world become the Kingdoms of God and of Christ. That is why it shows at that time “they had their dominion taken away”.

But if you will notice not all the rest of the beasts were cast into the lake of fire at that time, but as it is written “yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time”

This proves that some of those people from the other nations had “ their lives prolonged” meaning they were not killed at that time.

These are the remnant of the nations who were left alive that will be deceived after the thousand years are expired….

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It’s no assumption, it is a fact. Amil tries take make Rev 20 about Christs resurrection which happened 2,000 years prior. The Catholic Church which started the false Amil doctrine believed themselves to be reigning over the world, but they were puffed up in their own imagination.

If you're going to just make up lies like this, then I guess you have decided that you don't want to be taken seriously. Justin Martyr, a premil early church father, said this before the time when you're trying to claim that the Catholic Church started the Amil doctrine:

""I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion (temporal 1000 year reign), and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise." (Dialogue with Trypho, CHAPTER LXXX).

What is there to understand about lies? I already know that no lie is of the Truth.

You understand a lot about lies since you have lied several times to me. So, you tell me what there is to understand about them? I'm telling the truth.

I understand what a lie is, it is the opposite of the Truth

Do you understand that you shouldn't lie like you keep doing and should tell the truth instead?

ROFL! Don’t flatter yourself. Lol!

ROFL! You are so lacking in discernment, that you think I was comparing myself to a brain surgeon, which I was not. I was just giving an illustration of how ridiculous you are for trying to debate against Amil when you don't even understand it.

I’m not ignorant of the tactics of the enemy.

You fail to understand the time line of events.
Daniel 7:11 is a match to Rev. 19:20

Daniel 7:11​

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King James Version​

​

​

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

This prophecy is confirmed here in Rev. 19:20…

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone”

This confirms the timing of what happens next in Daniel 7:12….

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

If you want to be taken seriously here, then tell me who you think those 3 beasts represent? Keeping in mind that they represent kingdoms (Daniel 7:23). The context indicates that the four beasts represent four successive kingdoms, so the onus is on you to show otherwise.

This confirms what happens in Rev. Chapter 20. This “season and a time” is the thousand years mentioned in Rev. 20.

After the battle of Armageddon shown in Rev. 19 the kingdoms of this world become the Kingdoms of God and of Christ. That is why it shows at that time “they had their dominion taken away”.

The kingdoms of this world are evil and oppose God. What does scripture say Christ will do with them? Rule over them for a thousand years? Hardly!

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

He will destroy them! You ignore this! As it indicates in Revelation 19:15-18 He will smite them and tread them in the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God which results in the destruction of "all people, free and slave, great and small". But, you think He instead will rule over them for a thousand years. You completely ignore the context of passages like Psalm 2:7-9 and Revelation 19:11-21.

But if you will notice not all the rest of the beasts were cast into the lake of fire at that time, but as it is written “yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time”

LOL. That verse is a parenthetical verse to indicate what had happened to the previous 3 kingdoms. You are completely misinterpreting that verse. Again, if you want to be taken seriously here, then please explain how 4 world kingdoms could all be in power at the same time, and why only one of them would be destroyed? You're not understanding the they are 4 successive world empires and that the first 3 continued on for a period of time after no longer being in power. They are no longer even around when Daniel 7 occurs.

This proves that some of those people from the other nations had “ their lives prolonged” meaning they were not killed at that time.

LOL! Are you even thinking here? You keep trying to say there will be literally "few men left" at that point and now you're trying to say that 3 world kingdoms will survive His return! Hello? Can you not see how ridiculous that is? It doesn't say few kingdoms left. Address this if you want to be taken seriously.

The Truth is easy to defend when you have Christ as your Teacher.

I agree. So, you need to stop being stubborn about Revelation 20 and start letting Him teach you what it actually means.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The main point of the thread is not about if the fire is literal or symbolic, but it is about God allowing a few men to be left on earth after its destruction to fulfill His will. This is about future prophecy as I pointed out in the above post…

I see the main topic is “few left”
to fulfill His Will…but how can it not be necessary to acknowledge how one views the fire? For how they approach men waking in the fire, yet unharmed? You said they are the few left after His destruction to fulfill His Will. To me He speaks of a destruction or desolation that spills over into righteousness. A desolation that comes upon the whole earth…or could be “it comes on all men” yet He left us seed “His seed remains” when all is wasted, desolate, broken down, fallen…”His seed remains.” …you say without a doubt those left …His Will is that the few which remains repopulate the thousand year reign where they make new babies and animals make new babies to replenish the earth. This has to fit some futuristic set up. yet how are you so certain the replenishing, the repopulation is not to “rebuild” that which was torn or broken down? And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall
repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
And how even the creation groans for the revealing of the Sons of God?
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

To me it’s a timing thing that right from the start I doubt….desolation …wasted…broken down… is it the end or the beginning: where then God rebuilds …as Jesus Christ told them “you tear it down” and “I will raise it up again New” “I’ve been given of the Father the power to lay it down, and to take it up again.”

This prophecy is confirmed here in Rev. 19:20…

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone”

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. —-As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God givets: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

It won’t matter what I share —-if the focus is only on the desolation —its focus is not on the rebuilding what has been lost but on the coming desolation. One focal point only…desolation. But there is good news I think. When those in the Old Testament were thrown into the fire…why were men seen walking in the fire; unbound and unharmed by the fire?? The others destroyed. We neglect how they are walking in the fire??? And what Fire it is?. Trials heated up seven times hotter as never seen or will be seen again. Why are they walking unharmed in a furnace fire heated seven times hotter? For what purpose are they seen no longer bound? The very Fire in nature burning off their bounds to free them! Very telling to me is what men meant for harm (Hell fire and torment), God meant it for good. The first that goes in the fire is “the fearful” …if the fear of what men can do to the body goes in the fire and is everlasting destroyed, consumed, devoured—-is it bad all what is false, what is lies goes into the fire and is devoured, swallowed up in the Fire…see what men meant for Harm—God meant for good unto freedom from falsehood and lies, and fear of what men can do to the body. Is the Fire cleansing OR do we promote it as punishing rather than merciful, helpful and needful? We call evil good. And good evil. he who is in torment, has not been made perfect in Love.

We should see this by now…
How many fiery trials … and we keep saying “God works all things for the good for those Who love Him and are called according unto His purpose” …no one rightfully comes through fiery trials and calls it punishment but instead life changing…God prepared a large fish to swallow Jonah up…in the bowels of hell, in the belly of the great fish, Jonah cried out unto God. And the great fish vomited Johan out upon the shore…

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

If you're going to just make up lies like this, then I guess you have decided that you don't want to be taken seriously.

Augustine of Hippo started that false Amil doctrine, he was of the Catholic Church, quote “….Augustine is recognized as a saint in the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Lutheran churches, and the Anglican Communion. He is also a preeminent Catholic Doctor of the Church and the patron of the Augustinians” (end quote)

You understand a lot about lies since you have lied several times to me.

No I haven’t.

The kingdoms of this world are evil and oppose God. What does scripture say Christ will do with them? Rule over them for a thousand years? Hardly!

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

You are getting warmer….
Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 2:26-27

King James Version

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26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.”

Notice the saints have to overcome, and keep His works until THE END….Then they are given power over the nations.

So why would God give them power over the Nations after THE END if there were no more nations to rule over?

You see the Truth confirms itself over and over again. But liars and deceivers hate the Truth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Augustine of Hippo started that false Amil doctrine, he was of the Catholic Church, quote “….Augustine is recognized as a saint in the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Lutheran churches, and the Anglican Communion. He is also a preeminent Catholic Doctor of the Church and the patron of the Augustinians” (end quote)

Total nonsense. You are clueless. So, just ignore what Justin Martyr said then. Amil is taught in scripture. It's no wonder that you don't want to just deal with scripture and are trying to support your view apart from scripture like this. I would do that, too, if my arguments were as weak as yours are.

No I haven’t.

You are getting warmer….
Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 2:26-27​

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King James Version​

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26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.”

Notice the saints have to overcome, and keep His works until THE END….Then they are given power over the nations.

So why would God give them power over the Nations after THE END if there were no more nations to rule over?

You see the Truth confirms itself over and over again. But liars and deceivers hate the Truth.

You ignore all the context surrounding what a rod of iron symbolizes, which is DESTRUCTION. Hello? You ignore all of that. You just ignore that it talks about BREAKING them with a rod of iron and you just ignore Revelation 19:15-18 that talks about ruling with a rod of iron in the same context as smiting the nations and treading them in the winepress of the wrath of God? You ignore Revelation 19:17-18 which speaks of the destruction of "all people, free and slave, small and great". You have to change so many scriptures like that to make them say what you want them to say.

Tell me again how 3 world kingdoms equate to "few men left"? Now, you are trying to say that entire nations of the world equate to "few men left". You can't seem to decide on how many mortals you think will survive His return. Maybe you better give that more thought? Which is it? Will be "few men" or 3 world kingdoms and entire nations that survive His second coming? You don't even think about how inconsistent you are in your interpretations. And don't forget how you force scripture to contradict itself like you do with Isaiah 65:17-25 and Revelation 21:1-4 (and 2 Peter 3:13) and with Isaiah 24:6 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 and so on. But, somehow I'm the liar despite how dishonest you are with scripture? Think again. You are fooling yourself with your contradictions.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I see the main topic is “few left”
to fulfill His Will…but how can it not be necessary to acknowledge how one views the fire? For how they approach men waking in the fire, yet unharmed? You said they are the few left after His destruction to fulfill His Will. To me He speaks of a destruction or desolation that spills over into righteousness.

I wrote a thread on the everlasting fire and the fire that is never quenched, which I believe speaks of Gods anger and wrath. I used multiple verses of scripture to confirm this message.

But the fire in the last days, be it literal or symbolic, is to destroy and to cleanse the earth of the wicked and to bind wickedness for a thousand years. In order for righteousness to reign on earth, the wicked and spiritual wickedness must be destroyed or bound.

During the thousand year reign of Christ on earth wickedness is bound when Satan is bound. But after the thousand years Satan is loosed and is once again able to go out deceive the remnant of the nations who were not destroyed at Christs second coming.

I personally believe the fire that shall melt the elements with fervent heat shall be a literal fire that shall destroy all this modern day infrastructure, as I was shown this destruction by literal fire in a vision. But if people don’t believe the words of God, they will not believe visions from God either.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Total nonsense. You are clueless. So, just ignore what Justin Martyr said then.

Who is Justin Martyr to me? Who is Augustine of Hippo to me? If you want to follow the doctrines of men be my guest.

But don’t forget I warned you!

Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I personally believe the fire that shall melt the elements with fervent heat shall be a literal fire that shall destroy all this modern day infrastructure, as I was shown this destruction by literal fire in a vision.

Personally I believe the fire that shall melt the elements with fervent hear …is not about destroyed this modern day infrastructure…but a fire to destroy the weak and beggarly elements. In this was the elements spoken of “why do you desire to turn unto the weak and beggarly elements. Seeing they are to be dissolved. Why return to those beggarly elements not able to save any? The modern day infrastructure is only about modern day… as if the point is that infrastructure (our modern day infrastructure) instead of something consistent throughout the word:
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore you are no more a servant,(<I think that is the “elements” dissolved ) but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. However then, when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods(as Agar is in bondage and answers to the Jerusalem that now is). But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, (to me this is the elements dissolved) whereunto you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain(unprofitable). Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as you are: you have not injured me at all. You know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh you despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness you spoke of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

That infrastructure…those beggarly elements which are all the way throughout the word of God…not our modern day infrastructure needing to be dissolved by a literal fire. to me that’s having our only focus on our own generation as the only generation written about. When how God speaks of “elements” even in the elementary things saying move on from those things.

But if people don’t believe the words of God, they will not believe visions from God either.

I believe you could have had a vision about fire destroying our infrastructure. But I can also see how that could be speaking of Spiritual things. It may have been very real, your vision. But just because it was shown unto you in the literal, doesn’t mean it wasn’t revealing things happening in the Spiritual. Don’t forget: I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Personally I believe the fire that shall melt the elements with fervent hear …is not about destroyed this modern day infrastructure…but a fire to destroy the weak and beggarly elements. In this was the elements spoken of “why do you desire to turn unto the weak and beggarly elements. Seeing they are to be dissolved. Why return to those beggarly elements not able to save any? The modern day infrastructure is only about modern day… as if the point is that infrastructure (our modern day infrastructure) instead of something consistent throughout the word:
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore you are no more a servant,(<I think that is the “elements” dissolved ) but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. However then, when you knew not God, you did service unto them which by nature are no gods(as Agar is in bondage and answers to the Jerusalem that now is). But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, (to me this is the elements dissolved) whereunto you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain(unprofitable). Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as you are: you have not injured me at all. You know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh you despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness you spoke of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

That infrastructure…those beggarly elements which are all the way throughout the word of God…not our modern day infrastructure needing to be dissolved by a literal fire. to me that’s having our only focus on our own generation as the only generation written about. When how God speaks of “elements” even in the elementary things saying move on from those things.


I believe you could have had a vision about fire destroying our infrastructure. But I can also see how that could be speaking of Spiritual things. It may have been very real, your vision. But just because it was shown unto you in the literal, doesn’t mean it wasn’t revealing things happening in the Spiritual. Don’t forget: I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me: Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat. But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

But that verse also says the earth is burned up….

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But that verse also says the earth is burned up….

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Tell me what melts in ‘Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.’

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Who is Justin Martyr to me? Who is Augustine of Hippo to me? If you want to follow the doctrines of men be my guest.

LOL! You are the one who brought up Augustine, not me. You foolishly claim that Amil was started by him, but you don't even want to talk about who he is. He's nothing to me, that's for sure. And he didn't start Amil as you foolishly claim. Your can't support your weak doctrine with scripture so you resort to lying about how Amil was started instead.

But don’t forget I warned you!

Jeremiah 17:5
Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

I don't trust in man, liar. Never have said that. Again, YOU are the one who brought up Augustine, not me. I simply showed that people believed in Amil before him and then suddenly you don't want to talk about these ancient guys anymore. Just leave them out of it completely. Amil started well before Augustine because it's taught in scripture. Resorting to lies about Amil supposedly starting with that insignificant guy does nothing for your credibility.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But that verse also says the earth is burned up….

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Don’t forget we have this treasure in an earthen vessel.

The first verse I heard (I think) the Spirit in: Who has divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man; (to me this sounds like when John said no man was found worthy) (I don’t think it means no man was in the wilderness, but no man was found worthy …but behold, I saw a Lamb) To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

^don’t forget the parable about the ground. And the soil. Often the focus is on the heart …as “the place of planting and growth” yet the heart is the “desolate and waste ground” …not a planet orbiting space is the ground but “the heart”. What I hear in Job is that God cut a path to take water to those in the wilderness where no man was found worthy—hence the ground (heart) is desolate and waste …but God cut a path for water “living water” to flow unto the wilderness to satisfy that dry, parched and thirsty ground. “to cause the tender bud to spring forth” >Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he has no form nor comeliness(and God saw the earth was void and without form—but He was the expressed image of the Father), ; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; (making friends with the i right mammon, so when you fail) )and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; (Romans 5:16) And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he has poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
^to me …all that is why God cut a path in Job to where no man was found worthy…to make a way for the Living water to reach the wilderness that was desolate and waste to satisfy the dry and parched ground(heart), to cause His seed to grow…which is the above Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Don’t forget we have this treasure in an earthen vessel.

The first verse I heard (I think) the Spirit in: Who has divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man; (to me this sounds like when John said no man was found worthy) (I don’t think it means no man was in the wilderness, but no man was found worthy …but behold, I saw a Lamb) To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

^don’t forget the parable about the ground. And the soil. Often the focus is on the heart …as “the place of planting and growth” yet the heart is the “desolate and waste ground” …not a planet orbiting space is the ground but “the heart”. What I hear in Job is that God cut a path to take water to those in the wilderness where no man was found worthy—hence the ground (heart) is desolate and waste …but God cut a path for water “living water” to flow unto the wilderness to satisfy that dry, parched and thirsty ground. “to cause the tender bud to spring forth” >Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he has no form nor comeliness(and God saw the earth was void and without form—but He was the expressed image of the Father), ; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; (Romans 5:16) And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he has poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
^to me …all that is why God cut a path in Job to where no man was found worthy…to make a way for the Living water to reach the wilderness that was desolate and waste to satisfy the dry and parched ground(heart), to cause His seed to grow…which is the above Christ.

This is your understanding of 2 Peter 3:10-12? I assume so since this was your response after 2 Peter 3:10 was quoted to you.

Is that your understanding of the following passage, also?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.