Proof of Rapture before Tribulation

[Keraz]

The Jews will welcome the person with open arms thinking he is their long awaited King of Israel messiah. No conquering of Israel involved.

The Jews will have no part to play in the end times. Jeremiah 12:14, Romans 9:27
There will be no such thing as a king of Israel. Just a figment of your imagination.

In Revelation 6, the rider on the white horse given a crown (anointed the King of Israel) that goes forth to conquer and conquering is talking about the Antichrist person

More fanciful imaginings.
The First Seal denotes war and destruction, like Seals 2, 3 and 4, famines, plagues and economic disasters, as we have experienced.

How can Revelation 12:7-9 be between Revelation 12:6 and 14 are the same period time ? Revelation 12:6 is before 12:14.

Because they tell about the same taking to safety of the faithful Christians.
The first half of the 7 year treaty is never mentioned, except in Daniel 9:27....;with that first half spent...... It will be a time of peace.

The rapture/resurrection of 1Thesslaonians4:15-18 will be before the great tribulation, and before Jesus's Second Coming and before the Millennium begins..

Sheer nonsense, totally without scriptural support.
Lets go to the basics: Tell us why God should rapture todays Christians to heaven?
As we have just mentioned, the faithful Christians will avoid the Great Trib, by being kept in a safe location on earth. Why believe the incredible fable of a rapture?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Probably even more like before the flood when He returns the second time to earth. It gets worse and worse. In other words the world is very very evil when He returns. NOT that 'He is returning before the trouble'!

All are supposed to be killed by the evil ruler. Good luck with that pal.

Who even mentioned post trib rapture here?

Lot is used to depict a gathering before trib, and judgement .
Noah the same.
Noah and family gathered pretrib.

Take it up with Jesus. I am just a reporter.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I tend to agree

Never saw that verse? Which one says that? I may need to revisit my theory

Where?

" give us some of your oil, our lamps have gone out"

 

[dad]

I believe Jesus came and rescued the bride before the destruction. That was the good news to them; to be rescued from it there in Jerusalem before it went up in literal flames of fire.

Except that He did not come yet to rescue Christians, and rise up all the dead and living believers. I think you are talking about a small partial 'rapture' thousands of years ago

Many people disagree with me it’s fine. I see what you mean by people trying to over take your thread. By continuing to spam there beliefs. Gotta be firm with some. Hey okay that’s what you believe thank you for sharing, that’s all one can do. While I believe a lot differently than most essentially all we do is share what we know. No one has the authority to claim power over the other though through transparency it helps cause your both be clear and understanding. Then you have those who just frankly don’t give rooting tooting damn about what one may say and continue on in their spamming. Ya gotta be straight forward to tell to stop the crap or you’ll report them…


I know I for one use to be to passive; I’m more assertive these days, not combative. If a member takes notice and they actually care about you they will see it for what it is change their attitude hopefully in and by the Holy Spirit and perhaps change demeanor but it’s not always possible, God bless to all.

A lot of the time we are talking by our flesh and not the spirit. Everyone has to think and choose for themselves and not them choose for the other.



@dad useful? No useful?

Good points. I think it is safe to say that at least off topic preachers should refrain from accusing other posters of being Satan lovers and hellish liars etc. (usually in giant coloured letters, and weird boldings etc)

 

[dad]

Lot is used to depict a gathering before trib, and judgement .
Noah the same.
Noah and family gathered pretrib.

Take it up with Jesus. I am just a reporter.

I think main reason that Lot and Noah's day was mentioned was because the world will be as or more wicked in the end. Similar. Since the world is still there after the Rapture for years, it will get even worse. So the best time it can be compared to the extreme wickedness of Noah and Lot's days is the very very end when Jesus returns.

 

[dad]

" give us some of your oil, our lamps have gone out"

That does not say they had oil in the lamps. That could be just the wicks. The wicks are big and probably could give fire for maybe a few minutes. In other words they would not have the real deal and the oil, just some showcase lamp or some such. Those who come to Jesus sincerely and ask will have the real deal.

 

[David in NJ]

You have made statements you cannot back up whatsoever. You do not get to call Jesus taking us in the air as promised before the wrath a lie.

That is part of the wrath of God. We are not appointed to wrath. Do you need the verse address?

He will permit the saints in that time after the rapture to do those things. Since we are not there in the wrath, it was not us He allowed to endure that.

That is when the wrath of God is. See above

The ones who refused Jesus separated themselves from God and us. Jews that are and were saved are part of the church. The believers on earth after we are gone up to heaven are a new batch!

Those here will have to go through that time. Those raptured will not!
As the OP said, because the tribulation and great tribulation are the wrath of God, that proves the church is not there.

You have made statements you cannot back up whatsoever.

Statements in my post(s) are direct quotes from either the LORD Jesus Christ, the Apostles and/or the OT Prophets.

You do not get to call Jesus taking us in the air as promised before the wrath a lie.

I never did.
But the LORD Jesus Christ, the Apostles and the OT Prophets DID!!!

We are not appointed to wrath.

Well, we faithful believers in His word call that a "No-Brainer"!
What you need to SEE in the Holy Scriptures is the difference that the LORD made between His Wrath and satan's wrath.

ALL Blood Washed Sanctified Saints are DELIVERED from God's Wrath but not from satan's.

Pre-WRATH(God's WRATH) is 100% PURE Bible TRUTH = Always has been and ALWAYS WILL BE!

The ones who refused Jesus separated themselves from God and us.

100% PURE Bible TRUTH

Jews that are and were saved are part of the church

100% PURE Bible TRUTH

The believers on earth after we are gone up to heaven are a new batch!

i post the DIRECT scripture to any claim i make, whereas you are lacking in this most important area of dialogue.
PLEASE post the 'DIRECT' scripture that substantiates your claim.

SAME here from you:
"Those here will have to go through that time. Those raptured will not!"

 

[dad]

Statements in my post(s) are direct quotes from either the LORD Jesus Christ, the Apostles and/or the OT Prophets.

Unless they are on point that matters not at all. I could offer a verse from Gen 1 or the whole bible in a long post here. That would be His word. When dealing with the pre tribulation/wrath of God resurrection in the air, you need to offer verses that apply! NOT a verse dealing with several years later when Jesus returns to earth. That is spamming.

Well, we faithful believers in His word call that a "No-Brainer"!
What you need to SEE in the Holy Scriptures is the difference that the LORD made between His Wrath and satan's wrath.

Not true, God allows Satan to have his time here. That is all in that time of the wrath of God. So it is part of it. Did you think punk Satan could do anything without permission, and that we are supposed to be afraid of his actions?

ALL Blood Washed Sanctified Saints are DELIVERED from God's Wrath but not from satan's.

The whole seven years is the time of wrath and it gets worse and worse till the very end

Pre-WRATH(God's WRATH) is 100% PURE Bible TRUTH = Always has been and ALWAYS WILL BE!

God's wrath is not 'pre wrath' It is the real deal

100% PURE Bible TRUTH


100% PURE Bible TRUTH

100% parroting spam

i post the DIRECT scripture to any claim i make, whereas you are lacking in this most important area of dialogue.
PLEASE post the 'DIRECT' scripture that substantiates your claim.

Try finding ones that pertain.

SAME here from you:
"Those here will have to go through that time. Those raptured will not!"

It seems obvious that if we are not here for that 7 years or wrath, that we will not be going through it. Is there supposed to be some deeper point in there?

 

[David in NJ]

Unless they are on point that matters not at all. I could offer a verse from Gen 1 or the whole bible in a long post here. That would be His word. When dealing with the pre tribulation/wrath of God resurrection in the air, you need to offer verses that apply! NOT a verse dealing with several years later when Jesus returns to earth. That is spamming.

Not true, God allows Satan to have his time here. That is all in that time of the wrath of God. So it is part of it. Did you think punk Satan could do anything without permission, and that we are supposed to be afraid of his actions?

The whole seven years is the time of wrath and it gets worse and worse till the very end

God's wrath is not 'pre wrath' It is the real deal

100% parroting spam

Try finding ones that pertain.

It seems obvious that if we are not here for that 7 years or wrath, that we will not be going through it. Is there supposed to be some deeper point in there?

Unless they are on point that matters not at all.

Correct - and the scriptures i post are DIRECTLY on POINT to the Resurrection/Rapture.

Open your heart to TRUTH: 1 thess 4:13-18

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

AFTER that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[David in NJ]

Unless they are on point that matters not at all. I could offer a verse from Gen 1 or the whole bible in a long post here. That would be His word. When dealing with the pre tribulation/wrath of God resurrection in the air, you need to offer verses that apply! NOT a verse dealing with several years later when Jesus returns to earth. That is spamming.

Not true, God allows Satan to have his time here. That is all in that time of the wrath of God. So it is part of it. Did you think punk Satan could do anything without permission, and that we are supposed to be afraid of his actions?

The whole seven years is the time of wrath and it gets worse and worse till the very end

God's wrath is not 'pre wrath' It is the real deal

100% parroting spam

Try finding ones that pertain.

It seems obvious that if we are not here for that 7 years or wrath, that we will not be going through it. Is there supposed to be some deeper point in there?

God's wrath is not 'pre wrath' It is the real deal

Again, we who know scripture call this a 'No-Brainer'.

Pre-WRATH is when God DELIVERS us = 1 Thess 1:10 and 5:9

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Again, we who know scripture call this a 'No-Brainer'.

Pre-WRATH is when God DELIVERS us = 1 Thess 1:10 and 5:9

Right. And that wrath Paul referred to in those verses you referenced is described here:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Christ's enemies "shall not escape" that wrath which will come unexpectedly and suddenly, but we will because we will be changed to have immortal bodies and caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He comes (1 Cor 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:14-17).

 

[David in NJ]

Right. And that wrath Paul referred to in those verses you referenced is described here:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Christ's enemies "shall not escape" that wrath which will come unexpectedly and suddenly, but we will because we will be changed to have immortal bodies and caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He comes (1 Cor 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:14-17).

ABSOLUTELY TRUE

Not by our works, but by the LOVE of CHRIST whose Blood was shed for you and me!!!

 

[David in NJ]

Right. And that wrath Paul referred to in those verses you referenced is described here:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Christ's enemies "shall not escape" that wrath which will come unexpectedly and suddenly, but we will because we will be changed to have immortal bodies and caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He comes (1 Cor 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:14-17).

My reply may of seemed unrelated to your posting of 1 Thess 5:2

i forgot to interject this: And we are SAVED from His Wrath, not by our works...........

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My reply may of seemed unrelated to your posting of 1 Thess 5:2

i forgot to interject this: And we are SAVED from His Wrath, not by our works...........

You know we can edit our posts, right? You could have just edited that post. Thanks for the clarification, regardless.

 

[dad]

Correct - and the scriptures i post are DIRECTLY on POINT to the Resurrection/Rapture.

Let's revisit that then. What verse?

Open your heart to TRUTH: 1 thess 4:13-18

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

AFTER that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

That is the Rapture. So, what is your point relating to the topic?

 

[dad]

Again, we who know scripture call this a 'No-Brainer'.

Pre-WRATH is when God DELIVERS us = 1 Thess 1:10 and 5:9

Jesus delivers us from death and hell. So yes people have always been delivered by God in that sense. But you see the wrath is specifically the last years as well. So we are delivered from both, hell and etc and the last years of wrath.

The time after He returns to earth is also known as the time of His wrath

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The time of tribulation also is a time of wrath

Luke 21:23

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

The time when the seven vials are poured out, before Jesus returns is also the wrath of God

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

The days of that tribulation are wrath

Luke 21:23

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

The time is known from the middle of the seven years till the end. That will not come as a thief in the night. If the Rapture in the air happens before that tribulation, then it will come as a surprise and no one knows that day.

 

[Keraz]

That is the Rapture

1 Thess 4:16-17 may be a kind of rapture, but it isn't to heaven and it happens when Jesus Returns.

People are free to believe anything they like. It is beliefs which have no actual Bible support; that they teach and promote, that I object to and refute.
The BIG issue is the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church.
Firstly; Jesus said: Take care that you be not deceived…. This infers that it is possible for any Christian to be deceived. The fact of the 2 camps on this issue; for and against, proves that one side must be deceived.

Those who hold to the 'rapture' theory have to make a lot of assumptions and suppositions to fit it into scripture and because there is no consensus among then as to when it could happen, this alone cast serious doubt on that belief.

But there more, much more:
1/ Jesus said it was impossible, John 3:13, John 17:15, + A rapture to heaven of the Church is never Prophesied.
2/ We are told many times that we must endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 13:10, + We will be tried and tested.
3/ People do not Return with Jesus. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:14 Riding white horses and waving sabres? Really? Get real.
4/ I have said that people should ascertain the alternative. The Lord will protect His own. Psalms 91, Isaiah 43:2

Which isn't having to take the mark of the beast, but living in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, where the Lord will protect His faithful People and Bless them greatly. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

 

[Douggg]

Right. And that wrath Paul referred to in those verses you referenced is described here:

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Christ's enemies "shall not escape" that wrath which will come unexpectedly and suddenly, but we will because we will be changed to have immortal bodies and caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He comes (1 Cor 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:14-17).

The rapture to happen anytime between now and the day that the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation.

 

[dad]

1 Thess 4:16-17 may be a kind of rapture, but it isn't to heaven and it happens when Jesus Returns.

So where do they get taken up in the air to be with Jesus to, Oz? The space station?

People are free to believe anything they like. It is beliefs which have no actual Bible support; that they teach and promote, that I object to and refute.
The BIG issue is the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church.

We go where He is. Where did you think He was, on a mountain?

Firstly; Jesus said: Take care that you be not deceived…. This infers that it is possible for any Christian to be deceived. The fact of the 2 camps on this issue; for and against, proves that one side must be deceived.

One so called side of claiming God is not in heaven and that we also will be is a worthless waste of time and abject foolishness.

Those who hold to the 'rapture' theory have to make a lot of assumptions and suppositions to fit it into scripture and because there is no consensus among then as to when it could happen, this alone cast serious doubt on that belief.

Nope. Empty words.

But there more, much more:
1/ Jesus said it was impossible, John 3:13, John 17:15, + A rapture to heaven of the Church is never Prophesied.

Spammed verses with no supporting or even connection to your claims

2/ We are told many times that we must endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 13:10, + We will be tried and tested.

No we are not. The people in the tribulation are told that.

3/ People do not Return with Jesus. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 19:14

Yes, His saints do of course. More spammed verses with no connection

Riding white horses and waving sabres? Really? Get real.

If the bible says Jesus rides a horse, what should we think it really is, a choo choo train?

4/ I have said that people should ascertain the alternative.

Easy to do when offered a fairy tale

The Lord will protect His own. Psalms 91, Isaiah 43:2

Which isn't having to take the mark of the beast, but living in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, where the Lord will protect His faithful People and Bless them greatly. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

So now you think all believers will live in that war zone of Israel. Not even funny.

 

[Keraz]

So where do they get taken up in the air to be with Jesus to, Oz? The space station?

We go where He is. Where did you think He was, on a mountain?

1 Thess 4:17 clearly says: in the clouds. Not to heaven, as Jesus has just departed from there.
Matthew 24:31 ...He will send His angels to gather his people to Him; in Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:4

One so called side of claiming God is not in heaven and that we also will be is a worthless waste of time and abject foolishness.

Just what you do, promoting false theories.

Spammed verses with no supporting or even connection to your claims

Jesus said: No one goes to heaven, except for the One who came from heaven. I believe Him - you don't.

His saints do of course

Both Matthw 16_27 and Revelation 19:14 say that only the armies of heaven will accompany Jesus at Huis glorious Return.

If the bible says Jesus rides a horse, what should we think it really is, a choo choo train?

You or any rapture to heaven believer, has yet to show ANY verse which says the Lord will take His people to heaven, in the first place.

So now you think all believers will live in that war zone of Israel. Not even funny.

his comment shows how little you study your Bible and you are clueless about what God actually does plan for His people. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Jeremiah 33:10-11, Isaiah 35:1-10, +