Amil can only be proved to be true if Amils accept all of the following terms and convincingly satisfy these terms.

[IndianaRob]

I'm thinking it may be somewhat of a leap to add "spiritual" to the word "Israel." As far as I know, such a phrase is not anywhere in the scriptures.

Given that it would have very huge implications regarding doctrine, I'd think God would have somewhere used the phrase "spiritual Israel" if He wanted to tell us there was such a thing. I'd be hesitant to introduce such a profound doctrine changing concept where it really doesn't belong. I'd think it better to build one's doctrine based on what's actually in the scriptures. But that's just me.

Do you agree that the Jew in these verses are spiritual Jews. If so, spiritual Israel is the same concept.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[rwb]

Now there's a good question. I don't know for sure about that. I do know that Rom 11:26 says all of Israel will be saved. Somehow the two have to fit. Sure can't have contradictions in God's word.

I do see that Romans 9 is talking about events in the past (quoting Isaiah) whereas Romans 11 is talking about the future. That may have something to do with the question. I would need more study to come to a final conclusion though. I'd be interested in any insight you may have that may clear up the "appearant" contradiction between Romans 9 an 11.

There is no contradiction when we realize that Scripture often uses Israel to define faithful saints from both the Old Covenant Israel and the New Covenant Church.

Romans 9:27-33 (KJV) Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 11:1-5 (KJV) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

It seems Paul is speaking comfort and hope for his kinsmen yet in unbelief. Reminding all that God has always throughout their history had mercy on a remnant of them from Israel of flesh. Otherwise, the great calamities they endured would have left them without hope and without seed. Even though Israel has stumbled and fallen there is still hope through Christ as Gentiles of faith proclaim the Gospel of Christ to them. To prove the plan of God was always to save both Jews and Gentiles of faith, Paul says the fall of them served the purpose for which God intended the Gospel would be preached even unto Gentiles. And together Gentiles who believed the Gospel with faithful Jews together complete the spiritual Kingdom of God and are "all Israel that shall be saved."

 

[WPM]

Yes, yet you believe it has been "fulfilled?" Which I may disagree. When did you think the battle of Gog and Magog fulfilled? When did Satan come out of bottomless pit, exactly?

Rev 20:7-8
(7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And who did Gog and Magog battle against after Satan was loosed?

Rev 20:9
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Obviously, the camp of the Saints and the Beloved City are NOT located in the Middle East, but the "breadth of the Earth" which means ALL OVER THE EARTH where the congregations of the Saints are! Selah.

Much of Revelation is lent from ancient OT realities - like the ancient ceremonies, the ancient plagues in Egypt, ancient enemies of Israel, and ancient events in history, to symbolically represent spiritual truths write the intra-Advent period.

 

[Rich R]

Do you agree that the Jew in these verses are spiritual Jews. If so, spiritual Israel is the same concept.

No, not at all. Again I think that God would say something about "spiritual Jews" is such a thing existed. It would have a huge impact on doctrine. I don't see God making things complicated. He wants us to know Him, so I think He is a straight talker. He doesn't expect us to read between the lines. He says what He means and He means what He says. That's been my motto for some time and it's served me well. I

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Well, there is a context to those verses that is important to understand. A big part of that context is dealing with the inability of the Jews to follow the law. It says that even some non-Jews follow the law more than many Jews (Rom 2:14-15). I don't see those verses are not trying to establish the existence of a "spiritual" Jew though. The phrase "spiritual Jew" is definitely not there, nor anywhere else in the scriptures. The idea is arrived at by inference. Inferring things from the scriptures is a slippery slope. Better to just read what's there and think it through.

 

[Rich R]

There is no contradiction when we realize that Scripture often uses Israel to define faithful saints from both the Old Covenant Israel and the New Covenant Church.

Romans 9:27-33 (KJV) Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 11:1-5 (KJV) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

It seems Paul is speaking comfort and hope for his kinsmen yet in unbelief. Reminding all that God has always throughout their history had mercy on a remnant of them from Israel of flesh. Otherwise, the great calamities they endured would have left them without hope and without seed. Even though Israel has stumbled and fallen there is still hope through Christ as Gentiles of faith proclaim the Gospel of Christ to them. To prove the plan of God was always to save both Jews and Gentiles of faith, Paul says the fall of them served the purpose for which God intended the Gospel would be preached even unto Gentiles. And together Gentiles who believed the Gospel with faithful Jews together complete the spiritual Kingdom of God and are "all Israel that shall be saved."

I think you bring up some good things there. However, you kind of lose me by bringing up the word "spiritual" where it's not actually in the scriptures. Nonetheless I think those are good insights into harmonizing what at first appears to be totally opposite statements. As you said, God forbid He should contradict Himself. You gave me food for thought. Thanks!

A long time ago I was taught that any "apparent" contradiction in the scripture arises either because of a translation error or my understanding It's never God's fault!

 

[IndianaRob]

No, not at all. Again I think that God would say something about "spiritual Jews" is such a thing existed. It would have a huge impact on doctrine. I don't see God making things complicated. He wants us to know Him, so I think He is a straight talker. He doesn't expect us to read between the lines. He says what He means and He means what He says. That's been my motto for some time and it's served me well. I

Well, there is a context to those verses that is important to understand. A big part of that context is dealing with the inability of the Jews to follow the law. It says that even some non-Jews follow the law more than many Jews (Rom 2:14-15). I don't see those verses are not trying to establish the existence of a "spiritual" Jew though. The phrase "spiritual Jew" is definitely not there, nor anywhere else in the scriptures. The idea is arrived at by inference. Inferring things from the scriptures is a slippery slope. Better to just read what's there and think it through.

That’s another one I don’t agree with :).

 

[Rich R]

That’s another one I don’t agree with :).

You're telling me you don't agree with every jot and tittle of what I say? How could such a thing be? I'm flabbergasted!

Just kidding.

 

[rwb]

I think you bring up some good things there. However, you kind of lose me by bringing up the word "spiritual" where it's not actually in the scriptures. Nonetheless I think those are good insights into harmonizing what at first appears to be totally opposite statements. As you said, God forbid He should contradict Himself. You gave me food for thought. Thanks!

A long time ago I was taught that any "apparent" contradiction in the scripture arises either because of a translation error or my understanding It's never God's fault!

Using the phrase "spiritual life" is reference to being made spiritually alive through the Spirit of Christ within believers. Because Scripture tells us we were dead in trespasses and sins before being quickened (made alive) through the Holy Spirit when we were born again, or from above. The life we receive when we are born again is not physical life, destined to death, it is spiritual life that shall never die. We have gone from being natural man to spiritual man, and now have ability to understand that which the Spirit of Christ shall teach us of things from above.

1 Corinthians 2:9-14 (KJV) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Keraz]

I think that God would say something about "spiritual Jews"

Literal Israel and Spiritual Israel:
Throughout the New Testament, as well as in some prophecies of the Old Testament, the Bible makes a transition from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. Hosea 2:23, Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:29; Romans 9-11

In Revelation 12:1-17, we find this transition from literal to spiritual Israel in the prophetic language of symbols. In verse 2, the symbolic woman is pregnant. Her child is Jesus who was born a Jew in the land of Judah. In verse 4 the dragon/Satan seeks to destroy the child Jesus when He is born. This was fulfilled by Herod: Matthew 2:13-16. In verse 5 the child is caught up to God in heaven, representing the resurrection of Christ.
As the prophecy progresses in verse 6, the woman no longer represents ethnic Israel but has now transitioned to spiritual Christian Israel: fleeing from persecution during the prophesied 42 months of the Great Tribulation. Verses 7-12 describes the victory gained over Satan by Jesus’ death on the Cross and how Satan and his angels are finally thrown down to the earth, 1260 days, three and a half years, the 42 month period before Jesus physically Returns.

Then, in verse 13 the woman is again brought to view, being persecuted by Satan. In verse 14 she is given wings of an eagle so as she can escape. Verses 6 and 14 present a major prophetic transition to God’s people. Both the woman and her place have changed from ethnic Israel in the Middle East to spiritual Israel and the place God has prepared for her. Note that some Christians remain: verse 17 and Satan persecutes them. They are the ‘many’ that agreed to the 7 year treaty of peace with the Anti-Christ, Daniel 11:32a and do not go into exile: Zephaniah 14:2

It is important to understand three truths outlined in the prophecy and confirmed both in the New Testament and in the history of the church:
After the death of Christ, the Israel of God, transitioned from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. From an ethnic people to all peoples. 1 Peter 2:9-10

1. God’s faithful people: the woman, are moved from the holy Land to a place of safety on earth, given to her by God, to avoid the Great Tribulation.
2. The new Israel of God: all true Christians, are the focal point of the New Testament and the inheritors of God’s promises to ancient Israel.

Thinking that God still has a plan to redeem ethnic Israel; the Jewish people, conflicts with many prophesies that say how Judah will be judged and only a remnant will survive. It is Christians, from every race, nation and language who are God’s true, righteous people. Galatians 6:16; the Overcomers [Israelites] of God.
The ‘woman’ in the latter part of this prophecy represents spiritual Israel: all faithful believers in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28; Romans 2:28-29

Revelation 12 presents us with a prophetic outline of God’s Christian people in the symbolic form of a woman. In the first part of Revelation 12, the woman is the literal House of Judah located in Palestine, The latter part of the same prophecy makes use of the same symbols that took literal Israel on their journey to Canaan; to now describe the journey of the woman, the Christian Israelites of God, to a safe place on earth where they can worship Him in safety, until the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation have passed. Ref: James Rafferty

 

[TribulationSigns]

Much of Revelation is lent from ancient OT realities - like the ancient ceremonies, the ancient plagues in Egypt, ancient enemies of Israel, and ancient events in history, to symbolically represent spiritual truths write the intra-Advent period.

Answer my straightforward questions I posted.

 

[Rich R]

Using the phrase "spiritual life" is reference to being made spiritually alive through the Spirit of Christ within believers. Because Scripture tells us we were dead in trespasses and sins before being quickened (made alive) through the Holy Spirit when we were born again, or from above. The life we receive when we are born again is not physical life, destined to death, it is spiritual life that shall never die. We have gone from being natural man to spiritual man, and now have ability to understand that which the Spirit of Christ shall teach us of things from above.

1 Corinthians 2:9-14 (KJV) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Seems a lot better to be a spiritual man than a natural man. Glad I made the switch!

 

[covenantee]

Seems a lot better to be a spiritual man than a natural man. Glad I made the switch!

Matthew 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Which of your four claimed covenants was in His Blood, shed for the remission of sins?

Awaiting your answer.

 

[Rich R]

Literal Israel and Spiritual Israel:
Throughout the New Testament, as well as in some prophecies of the Old Testament, the Bible makes a transition from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. Hosea 2:23, Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:29; Romans 9-11

In Revelation 12:1-17, we find this transition from literal to spiritual Israel in the prophetic language of symbols. In verse 2, the symbolic woman is pregnant. Her child is Jesus who was born a Jew in the land of Judah. In verse 4 the dragon/Satan seeks to destroy the child Jesus when He is born. This was fulfilled by Herod: Matthew 2:13-16. In verse 5 the child is caught up to God in heaven, representing the resurrection of Christ.
As the prophecy progresses in verse 6, the woman no longer represents ethnic Israel but has now transitioned to spiritual Christian Israel: fleeing from persecution during the prophesied 42 months of the Great Tribulation. Verses 7-12 describes the victory gained over Satan by Jesus’ death on the Cross and how Satan and his angels are finally thrown down to the earth, 1260 days, three and a half years, the 42 month period before Jesus physically Returns.

Then, in verse 13 the woman is again brought to view, being persecuted by Satan. In verse 14 she is given wings of an eagle so as she can escape. Verses 6 and 14 present a major prophetic transition to God’s people. Both the woman and her place have changed from ethnic Israel in the Middle East to spiritual Israel and the place God has prepared for her. Note that some Christians remain: verse 17 and Satan persecutes them. They are the ‘many’ that agreed to the 7 year treaty of peace with the Anti-Christ, Daniel 11:32a and do not go into exile: Zephaniah 14:2

It is important to understand three truths outlined in the prophecy and confirmed both in the New Testament and in the history of the church:
After the death of Christ, the Israel of God, transitioned from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. From an ethnic people to all peoples. 1 Peter 2:9-10

1. God’s faithful people: the woman, are moved from the holy Land to a place of safety on earth, given to her by God, to avoid the Great Tribulation.
2. The new Israel of God: all true Christians, are the focal point of the New Testament and the inheritors of God’s promises to ancient Israel.

Thinking that God still has a plan to redeem ethnic Israel; the Jewish people, conflicts with many prophesies that say how Judah will be judged and only a remnant will survive. It is Christians, from every race, nation and language who are God’s true, righteous people. Galatians 6:16; the Overcomers [Israelites] of God.
The ‘woman’ in the latter part of this prophecy represents spiritual Israel: all faithful believers in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28; Romans 2:28-29

Revelation 12 presents us with a prophetic outline of God’s Christian people in the symbolic form of a woman. In the first part of Revelation 12, the woman is the literal House of Judah located in Palestine, The latter part of the same prophecy makes use of the same symbols that took literal Israel on their journey to Canaan; to now describe the journey of the woman, the Christian Israelites of God, to a safe place on earth where they can worship Him in safety, until the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation have passed. Ref: James Rafferty

What I meant by, "I think that God would say something about "spiritual Jews" was that God would use exactly those words. Of course He never does. Nor does He mention a "spiritual Christian Israel."

I think that Revelation is about the Jews. It tells how all the promises in the OT about an everlasting and, an everlasting kingdom, and more finally come to pass. It could have happened at any time had Israel obeyed but of course they never did. Jesus gave them one last chance, but they rejected him as well. That's when God put His plan for Israel on hold and began dealing with the Christians. That plan was hidden in Him until it was revealed to Paul. Just look up the word "mystery" in Paul's letters for the details on that. When the fullness of the Gentiles (Rom 11:25) happens the Christians will be gathered together with Christ in the air (1 Thes 4, et. al.). At that point God will take up His plan once again for Israel, where, as Rom 11 says, they will all be saved. At that time the New Testament promised to Israel in Jeremiah 31:31 will be fulfilled. Once the unjust are cast into the lake of fire, God will renew the heavens and the earth and we'll all be happy forevermore.

The advantage I see in reading it that way is that it avoids over symbolizing, putting symbols where they don't belong. The scripture story can all be read and understood by just taking the words for what they say. I'm not saying there are no symbols, signs, figures of speech (including allegory), etc. in the Bible, but we must be careful not to put them where they don't belong. Often God will tell us when He's using symbols. In any case, if the plain sense makes sense, why complicate things?

 

[Rich R]

Matthew 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Which of your four claimed covenants was in His Blood, shed for the remission of sins?

Awaiting your answer.

My claimed covenants? God put them in the Bible, not me.

But to answer your question, Jesus was talking about the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31. Jesus was talking to Jews about Jewish matters (no Gentiles nor Christians at the table). I don't see God having made any other covenant with anybody between Jeremiah's time and the last supper. Not sure why that's so complicated.

 

[covenantee]

My claimed covenants? God put them in the Bible, not me.

But to answer your question, Jesus was talking about the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31. Jesus was talking to Jews about Jewish matters (no Gentiles nor Christians at the table). I don't see God having made any other covenant with anybody between Jeremiah's time and the last supper. Not sure why that's so complicated.

Not complicated in the least. Jesus is speaking of His New Covenant in the present tense.

As would the writer of Hebrews 8 et al do subsequently.

Fait accompli.

Do you think that Jesus' Blood was simply a Jewish matter?

And that it was shed for the remission of only Jewish sins?

 

[Rich R]

Not complicated in the least. Jesus is speaking of His New Covenant in the present tense.

As would the writer of Hebrews 8 et al do subsequently.

There is a figure of speech called the prophetic future where something future is spoken of as already having occurred. It was used extensively by the Jewish writers of the scriptures. It was used to express the certainty of some future event. We also use it. Your boss says do such and such and you reply, "it's done!"

I already handled Heb 8:13 where I mentioned the verb tenses. Suffice it to say, the Greek verbs do not represent a completed action in the past. Also notice the last phrase, "...ready to vanish away." Doesn't say it's a done deal. It's just ready to do so.

Do you think that Jesus' Blood was simply a Jewish matter?

And that it was shed for the remission of only Jewish sins?

Of course not. The mystery clearly says otherwise. But the mystery is not a covenant. The only covenants God ever made were with Abraham and with Israel. Neither Abraham nor Israel is the church. At least if one sticks with the obvious meaning of simple words. But once we introduce allegory where it's not warranted the barn door is open and doctrine can become wherever one's imagination goes.

Try to really grasp the significance of the mystery that was hidden until revealed to Paul. Any doctrinal position that goes against that has to be in error. That means anything Jesus said in the Gospels about a new covenant has nothing to do with the church. He came for and was a minister to the Jews. The church was hidden in God until it was revealed to Paul. Though hardly ever taught in the pulpit or in Sunday school, the mystery has been in the scriptures for 2,000 years now. It's no longer a secret. It's been fully revealed. But since it is seldom taught from the pulpit or in Sunday school, it's up to the individual to learn it and the incredible effect it has in the overall plan of God.

Having said all of that. It's not a good idea to build a doctrine on one or a few verses. There are many verses that deal with covenants and they should all be considered before coming to a conclusion.

 

[WPM]

My claimed covenants? God put them in the Bible, not me.

But to answer your question, Jesus was talking about the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31. Jesus was talking to Jews about Jewish matters (no Gentiles nor Christians at the table). I don't see God having made any other covenant with anybody between Jeremiah's time and the last supper. Not sure why that's so complicated.

There is one sacrifice for sin, one new covenant. This demolishes your false teaching.

 

[covenantee]

There is a figure of speech called the prophetic future where something future is spoken of as already having occurred.

Matthew 26:28 Greek
1510 [e]
estin
ἐστιν
is
V-PIA-3S

Present indicative active.
No prophetic future there.

The only covenants God ever made were with Abraham and with Israel.

Matthew 26
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

So the Covenant that Jesus made with His disciples doesn't count?

2 Corinthians 3 NASB
5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

What covenant is that and when?

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

What covenant is that and when?

 

[Rich R]

Matthew 26:28 Greek
1510 [e]
estin
ἐστιν
is
V-PIA-3S

Present indicative active.
No prophetic future there.


Matthew 26
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

So the Covenant that Jesus made with His disciples doesn't count?

2 Corinthians 3 NASB
5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves so as to consider anything as having come from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

What covenant is that and when?

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

What covenant is that and when?

The new covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31, which covenant will be made with Israel.

I've also said multiple that it's obvious that the things that new covenant consist of is in the rest of that chapter, and as such it is clear that none of it has come to pass. I think I've been consistent in that. So far, nobody has addressed that verse and the rest of the chapter head on. Maybe you could be the first?

 

[covenantee]

The new covenant mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31, which covenant will be made with Israel.

I've also said multiple that it's obvious that the things that new covenant consist of is in the rest of that chapter, and as such it is clear that none of it has come to pass. I think I've been consistent in that. So far, nobody has addressed that verse and the rest of the chapter head on. Maybe you could be the first?

You missed this:

Matthew 26:28 Greek
1510 [e]
estin
ἐστιν
is
V-PIA-3S

Present indicative active.
No prophetic future there.

Matthew 26
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

No "none of it has come to pass".
Simply actual extant reality.


There are no future tenses in the Scriptures I've cited. All have either been fulfilled to completion, or initially fulfilled with ongoing completion.

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

How could the New Covenant be everlasting if none of it had yet come to pass?

The answer is self-evident.