The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

[Zao is life]

Yes, it is. Paul clearly did that in Ephesians 2:4-6.

No he did not. Your misinterpretation has it so, so you believe a false doctrine regarding the passage.

One last time: You have chosen to misinterpret it as referring to the individual human spirit "being resurrected from the dead" through the quickening of the Spirit of His dead body that Christ experienced,

instead of what Paul says in Ephesians 2:4-6, which is that the dead body of the individual is quickened by the Spirit of God with the same quickening of His dead body that Christ experienced, so that the dead body of the individual will be raised from the dead with the resurrection of Christ's dead body.

Paul clearly was talking about what I just repeated yet again above - and the word synegeiro proves it, despite the fact that in your misinterpretation you have changed the meaning of the word to make it refer to "the dead human spirit being raised" (which it does not refer to).

The Spirit of Christ will give life (zōopoiéō: quicken) our mortal bodies, through and with the quickening Christ experienced (syzōopoiéō) of His dead body and so we will be bodily raised from the dead with and through His resurrection (synegeiro).

"If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.". Rom 8:10-11, because God has

(1) syzōopoiéō (quickened us together with) Christ,

(2) and has raised us up together (synegeírō).

and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:4-6).

Your arguing in circles is tiring, so I'm not repeating yet again why the scriptures themselves show that you are wrong in your false assumption.

You are in any case contradicting yourself saying that the human spirit is "resurrected" from the dead "through being quickened" after saying that being born of the Spirit is not the same as the human spirit being resurrected from the dead.

-- and then you wonder why you're so difficult to follow.​

 

[marks]

Yes. To shorten this post, I've given examples here in this page of places where the New Testament uses the word psyche in reference to:

1. The mind
2. The soul
3. The life

Shortened, huh? ;-) LOL!

No worries! A compelling post, and you've laid out the case well, and we need to use the context carefully to make sure we have the right understanding.

Luke 8:52-55
"He said, Do not weep; she has not died, but sleeps. And they ridiculed, knowing that she was dead. And He put them all out. And He took her by the hand and called, saying, Little girl, arise! And her spirit [pneûma] came again, and she arose immediately. And He commanded that food be given her to eat."

This one in particular.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
"And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole body [soma], mind | soul [psychḗ] and spirit [pneuma] be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus".

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul [psychḗ] and spirit [pneuma], and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

So there is the above, but the word psyche is only used in reference to the mind, the soul, and the life of individuals - suggesting a distinction between soul and spirit.

This also in particular.

Yes, it seems that there is some crossover in usage.

You could be right about what you said about the synonyms. I find it confusing and have not come to a conclusion about the difference between the soul and the spirit. I find what Doug said about the Spirit of Life very interesting.

Yes, the "spirit of life" shows a different usage as well, using the other meaning of pneuma, breath.

All I know for sure is that there is no spiritual "resurrection" (from the dead) mentioned anywhere in the New Testament. Nor is such a concept used figuratively either, because Christ's soul went to hades and He preached by the Spirit of God, who quickened His mortal body.

I agree, I don't see a "spiritual resurrection", rather that we are "made alive".

What many Christians seem to not understand is that Christ did not only become a man when He took on a human body. He became mankind ("the last Adam"), the Son of man who represents all those who are IN HIM and He IN THEM.

Yes, a new humanity that we are gathered into.

Now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." -- 1 Corinthians 15:47, 45; 20-22.

"For He has made Him who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." -- 2 Corinthians 5:21.

"If we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him," -- Romans 6:8.

Christ died for our sins. His body was dead. His body was quickened (made alive) by the Spirit, and He rose again bodily from the dead.

" I am the Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live." -- John 11:25

Amen!!

Much love!

 

[Zao is life]

Through the Spirit (breath of life) God breathed life into the man, Adam and he became a "living soul." Mankind cannot be living souls without breath of life (natural spirit) and a physical body of flesh. Since Christ sent His Spirit to be within man/woman of faith, their breath of life (spirit) is alive forever through Christ's Spirit in us. The Spirit sent from Christ will always be within believers until the redemption of our flesh (purchased possession) from the grave.

Ephesians 1:13-14 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In one sense, I agree! When our body dies, our breath of life (spirit) returns to God alive (living soul) through the power of the Holy Spirit within. In heaven our spirit that returns to God is not like the spirit (breath of life) that returns to God in unbelief. In heaven faithful saints are still "living souls" or spiritually alive (the spiritual body of Christ), and those spirits in unbelief after physical death are said to be in darkness and silence, knowing nothing at all until the hour coming and they (the spiritually dead) are called to stand before the GWTJ to give account to God according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

When someone dies in Christ, that one remains in Christ. Soul and spirit with Christ, body in the grave till the resurrection.

I have never said anything different so haven't answered you when you repeat what I have never argued against because you say things I never argued against as though I argued against them.

My point is that we never had a spirit to be resurrected from the dead before we were born of the Spirit, and despite the reading of Ephesians 2:4-6 that Spiritual Jew and others (possibly yourself) have of this, quickening always relates to the making alive of the body - not of the human spirit.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul states,

"Christ is risen [egeiro] from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection [anastasis] of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be quickened [zoopoieo: made alive]." -- 1 Corinthians 15:20-22.

The Greek noun used in the New Testament for bodily resurrection from death is anástasis: THE Resurrection. Without exception, each and every time the word anástasis appears in the New Testament, it's referring to (the) resurrection of the body (which is an integral part of the gospel).

The other words associated with The Resurrection of the body (anástasis) are:-

égersis; anístēmi; and egeírō.

The words are not always used in reference to the resurrection: Sometimes they are used for rising up (as in "get up!"), or being raised up as a leader, or rising from sleep (in a normal sense),

but wherever they are speaking about rising from death, they are speaking about the resurrection of the body from the dead.

I can supply the list of all the New Testament verse using the above words - the scripture proves what I say about the above because I got it from scripture.

So in 1 Corinthians 15:20-22 Paul is stating that the bodies of those who are born of the Spirit of God will be quickened (made to live forever) by the same Spirit of God, through and together with the same quickening of His mortal body that was experienced by Christ:

"Christ is risen [egeiro] from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection [anastasis] of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be quickened [zoopoieo: made alive]." -- 1 Corinthians 15:20-22.

Hence those who are born of the Spirit of God will be bodily raised from the dead together with and through (i.e by) Christ's bodily resurrection from the dead, as Romans 8:10-11 states:

"If Christ's Spirit is in you,

(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.

(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.".

In Ephesians 2:4-6 Paul explains,

"God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even us being dead (the body being dead) in sins,

(1) He has syzōopoiéō (quickened together with) Christ, (by grace ye are saved);

(2) and has raised us up together (synegeírō)

and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:4-6).

The word synegeírō (raised with Christ) is referring to the resurrection of the body, not of the human spirit or quickening "of the spirit".

The one who raised Christ from the dead will quicken your mortal bodies if His Spirit dwells in you.

Paul also says the exact same thing in his letter to the Colossians (Colossians 2:12 and Colossians 3:1).

This quickening of the body is also spoken about in:-

|| John 5:21; John 6:63; Romans 4:17; Romans 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15 vs. 22, 36 & 45; II Corinthians 3:6; Galatians 3:21; I Timothy 6:13; I Peter 3:18. ||

The word zōopoiéō is used in each verse.

There are many examples of this: In Romans 4:17 for example Paul refers once again to the fact that God "quickens [zoopoieo] the dead, and calls the things which do not exist as though they do exist.":

The dead in Romans 4:17 (as elsewhere), is referring to the dead body. Paul never contradicts what he says about this:

"If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:11).

In 1 Corinthians 15 verses 22, 35-36 & 45 Paul talks about how being made alive by the Spirit (zōopoiéō) results in the resurrection of the body (soma).

No other apostles' teaching is any different. 1 Peter 1:3 for example, says:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth (anagennáō) into a living (záō) hope THROUGH the resurrection (anástasis) of Jesus Christ from the dead".

The hope that Peter is talking about is the confident assurance of the resurrection of our dead bodies (at the time of the return of Christ) - even after we have died.

There is no such thing as "the quickening of the (human) spirit" in the New Testament. There is only spiritual birth by the Spirit of God and this results in the quickening of the body, and occurs with the quickening of His body that Christ experienced, through the power of His bodily resurrection. That's what Paul is saying in Ephesians 2:4-6, that's what he is saying in 1 Corinthians 15:20-22, that's what he is saying in Romans 8:10-11, and everywhere else Paul speaks about this - and that's the same thing Peter and any other apostle says when they speak about it.

Being born of the Spirit results in the Spirit's quickening of the body with and through the quickening of His dead body that Christ experienced, and by the same power of the Spirit of God/Christ.

If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath.

And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. -– Revelation 14:9-11

And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world. – Revelation 13:8

And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire. -- Revelation 20:15

Here is the endurance of the saints. Here are the ones who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. -- Revelation 14:9-12

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God,

and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they were alive in their bodies [záō] and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest [loipoí] of the dead did not live again [anazáō] until the thousand years were finished.

This is the first resurrection of the body [anástasis]. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years. -– Revelation 20:4-6

záō = "Alive in the body" (never dead or died) without exception in the New Testament.

Anazáō = “alive in the body again”.

Anástasis = “the resurrection of the body” in the New Testament (without exception).

This is not a "spiritual resurrection".​

 

[rwb]

My point is that we never had a spirit to be resurrected from the dead before we were born of the Spirit, and despite the reading of Ephesians 2:4-6 that Spiritual Jew and others (possibly yourself) have of this, quickening always relates to the making alive of the body - not of the human spirit.

If mankind does not have a natural spirit, how are they physically alive? Do you think Paul is directing his words to physical corpses?

In the beginning God breathed breath into the man He created from the earth. That breath is called "the breath of life" because through it Adam became a "living soul." He was a complete man with physical body + the breath of life (spirit) and the two together are called a living soul.

Breath of life is defined from the Hebrew nesh-aw-maw' khah'-ee - Strong's below defines this as intellect, inspiration, soul, spirit that is alive, iow a living breathing creature. Before spirit was breathed into Adam he was indeed a dead lump of clay without mind, or heart, therefore not appetite, no ability to think and reason, no feelings or emotions, all of these things came from the spirit breathed into Adam when God created him.

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
5397. נְשָׁמָה neshamah (nᵉshâmâh)
Search for H5397 in KJVSL; in KJV.
נְשָׁמָה nᵉshâmâh, nesh-aw-maw'
from H5395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal:—blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
2416. חַי chay (chay)
Search for H2416 in KJVSL; in KJV.
חַי chay, khah'-ee
from H2421; alive; hence, raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively:— age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life(-time), live(-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, merry, multitude, (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.

Every human coming after Adam & Eve is endowed with a natural spirit from conception, even while still in the womb mankind is alive (has spirit). From the fall the spirit in man, instead of having the nature of their Creator, took on the nature of the spiritual being that deceived them. Therefore mankind, as a natural spirit, hears the voice of the deceiver of fallen spiritually dead man, and has no desire to hear the voice of Christ to be saved. The only way that fallen mankind may hear the voice of Christ, he/she MUST be born again, of the Spirit of Christ. Then man goes from being naturally spiritually dead in trespasses and sins to be supernaturally made spiritually alive through the Spirit sent from Christ within. That is what Paul means when he says we were dead, and without the life-giving Spirit, but through the Spirit we who WERE dead in trespasses and sins have been made alive; quickened by the Spirit of Christ the moment we heard the Gospel through the power of the Spirit and believed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Greek noun used in the New Testament for bodily resurrection from death is anástasis: THE Resurrection. Without exception, each and every time the word anástasis appears in the New Testament, it's referring to (the) resurrection of the body (which is an integral part of the gospel).​

This is why, in my view, which you don't bother to carefully read, I believe "the first resurrection" itself is Christ's bodily resurrection and all believers spiritually have part in His resurrection. I do NOT call that act of spiritually having part in His resurrection a resurrection itself. It results in going from being spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ, but I don't try to call that a resurrection. But, you continually try to lump me in with those who claim that, which is not fair to me and my particular view. The Greek words prōtos and anastasis are only used together in one other verse in scripture.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first (prōtos) that should rise (anastasis) from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

The idea that He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality is taught in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, also.

So, in my view "prōtos anastasis" means the same thing each time it is used, which is consistent.

 

[rwb]

This is why, in my view, which you don't bother to carefully read, I believe "the first resurrection" itself is Christ's bodily resurrection and all believers spiritually have part in His resurrection. I do NOT call that act of spiritually having part in His resurrection a resurrection itself. It resulsts in going from being spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ, but I dn't try to call that a resurrection. But, you continually try to lump me in with those who claim that, which is not fair to me and my particular view. The Greek words prōtos and anastasis are only used together in one other verse in scripture.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first (prōtos) that should rise (anastasis) from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

The idea that He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality is taught in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, also.

So, in my view "prōtos anastasis" means the same thing each time it is used, which is consistent.

Exactly! We have part in the first resurrection THROUGH the resurrection life of Christ. That's because we are dead spiritually, not physically in trespasses and sins and must be made spiritually alive. That's what happens through the Spirit of Christ within us. John is not saying the first resurrection is humans being brought back to life again after physical death. John is saying we MUST have part in the resurrection life of Christ, Who is the "first resurrection", in order for us to overcome the second death and have everlasting life.

 

[covenantee]

Exactly! We have part in the first resurrection THROUGH the resurrection life of Christ. That's because we are dead spiritually, not physically in trespasses and sins and must be made spiritually alive. That's what happens through the Spirit of Christ within us. John is not saying the first resurrection is humans being brought back to life again after physical death. John is saying we MUST have part in the resurrection life of Christ, Who is the "first resurrection", in order for us to overcome the second death and have everlasting life.

Amens, bro.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Exactly! We have part in the first resurrection THROUGH the resurrection life of Christ. That's because we are dead spiritually, not physically in trespasses and sins and must be made spiritually alive. That's what happens through the Spirit of Christ within us. John is not saying the first resurrection is humans being brought back to life again after physical death. John is saying we MUST have part in the resurrection life of Christ, Who is the "first resurrection", in order for us to overcome the second death and have everlasting life.

Yep.

Rev 20:5-6
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Those who took part in the first resurrection (being born again or made alive) reign with Christ right now in his Kingdom on Earth as priests witnessing the Gospel on Earth. But if some of them have already physically died before the Second Coming, their SOULS go to live and continue reign with the Lord.

But the rest of the dead are those who are physically dead but did not take part in the first resurrection (being born again or made alive). They are the unsaved dead. So exactly where will their souls go? Nowhere! Not even waiting in hell as some believe! They remain in the grave in a state of unconsciousness waiting for the SECOND resurrection at the Second Coming. More on this someday if anyone wants to know more.

Anyway, now here is what we need to know:

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The "dead in Christ shall rise first" are those who are already in heaven with Christ after they were physically dead as explained above. On Christ's second coming, He will bring the army of the dead (speaking as a man) back with him! Because "though they are dead, yet they live." When the Scriptures say Christ will bring the dead with him, or that the dead in Christ shall be raised first, he is talking to those of us on Earth who speak of those who have departed as the dead.

Rev 19:13-14
(13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
(14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

The armies in heaven are those who have died in Christ! Adam, Moses, David, Daniel, Matthew, John, Peter, Paul, and billions of Saints from the Old Testament and the New Testament, including your departed grandpa, mother, best friend, all of them who took part of the first resurrection IN CHRIST. They will come down with Christ to meet with us in the air! They are obviously the Saints because they are the ones clothed in fine linen, white and clean - the clothing of righteousness!

And at the same time when Christ returns with His Saints, we, who are still "alive and remain" Earth, will be changed in an instant. Our flesh bodies will be translated to the heavenly body in an instant. In the twinkle of an eye!

1Co 15:51-53
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The twinkling of an eye has to do with how our bodies CHANGE! Not the flight to the air like the sudden disappearance of the Saint in so-called Pre-tribulation rapture movies! Let me explain, just as RWB explained, Christ ALREADY gave us immortality in the first resurrection (made alive) but we are still stuck within our flesh bodies while we are alive. Our spirit cannot leave our flesh body until it dies, right? So, what Christ will do at the last trump, is to make our flesh bodies suddenly disappear, removed, or nonexistence so that our immortality spirits will be free and be manifested. And then what happens next?

Mat 24:30-31
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Christ will command His messengers (angels) to come down and pick up/gather the "alive and remain" Saints on Earth to be brought up to the air to meet with the Lord, WHILE THE WORLD WATCH! Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. Just as Elisha has witnessed Elijah was taken into heaven!

Something to think about.

 

[rwb]

So, what Christ will do at the last trump, is to make our flesh bodies suddenly disappear, removed, or nonexistence so that our immortality spirits will be free and be manifested.

I'm in complete agreement with what you've written. The only thing I would add is that I believe our PHYSICAL body (if we have already died when the last trumpet sounds) will be physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible and it will be made alive through the eternal spirit that returns with Christ. Saints still alive when the last trumpet sounds won't need to be resurrected bodily, but they too shall be physically raised immortal & incorruptible. Our physical immortal flesh, alive through our eternal spirit will then once again be as man was created in the beginning to be, then fit for life on the new earth.

Because earth and the new earth are created to be the habitation for physical flesh.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I'm in complete agreement with what you've written. The only thing I would add is that I believe our PHYSICAL body (if we have already died when the last trumpet sounds) will be physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible and it will be made alive through the eternal spirit that returns with Christ. Saints still alive when the last trumpet sounds won't need to be resurrected bodily, but they too shall be physically raised immortal & incorruptible. Our physical immortal flesh, alive through our eternal spirit will then once again be as man was created in the beginning to be, then fit for life on the new earth.

Because earth and the new earth are created to be the habitation for physical flesh.

We ALREADY had immortal and incorruptible body when we took part in the first resurrection. For example, when you are born again, you are made alive with a new spirit - a spiritual body WITHIN our flesh. WE just don't see it because we are still in the bodies of flesh. Christ will have no use for our rotten physical flesh bodies since the flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven. Since we already have a spiritual body within us, our flesh will be done with at the last trump. The physical bodies made of flesh and blood will NOT reconstructed into immortal or incorruptible.

Rev 21:1
(1) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Everything we see and use on first earth: water, dirt, all physical elements, including our flesh and blood. Flesh returns to the dust of the earth which also pass away. Nowhere in Scripture that says our earthly physical bodies will be resurrected. Show me the verse where you believe there is one.

Also for the unsaved dead who will rise up in the second resurrection, who will stand before the throne of God to be judged.

Revelation 20:12-13

• "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
• And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

Will they be resurrected with their rotten physical bodies out from the grave? From the dust of dead tiger that ate them? Or by a fire that turned their body into dust and blown by wind? No, God can resurrect their sleeping SOUL from anywhere to stand before God. Then they will be thrown into the lake of fire FOREVER. That is what their spiritual bodies are for - indestructible - to stay in the Lake of Fire forever.

 

[rwb]

We ALREADY had immortal and incorruptible body when we took part in the first resurrection. For example, when you are born again, you are made alive with a new spirit - a spiritual body WITHIN our flesh. WE just don't see it because we are still in the bodies of flesh. Christ will have no use for our rotten physical flesh bodies since the flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven. Since we already have a spiritual body within us, our flesh will be done with at the last trump. The physical bodies made of flesh and blood will NOT reconstructed into immortal or incorruptible.

If we already have immortal and incorruptible physical body when we took part in the first resurrection, then our physical body could NEVER die. When we are born again of Christ's Spirit we are made spiritually alive, not physically immortal. Our spirit then, having the Holy Spirit within is ETERNAL and our spirit can NEVER die. That's why Christ says the whosoever lives and believes in Him "SHALL NEVER DIE"!

I agree, our flesh & blood body is not who we are, we are spirit. Just as saints become a physical body of believers while alive on this earth, so too when our natural, physical body dies, we shall be a spiritual body in heaven. Since saints shall be alive in heaven after physical death, we do not cease being living souls. Before we die, we are complete physical living souls while on earth. And when our mortal body breathes its last, our spirit alive through the Holy Spirit within us, leaves our mortal corpse and ascends to heaven a living soul without physical form. This is why Paul says in 1Cor 15:44 that when we, our natural, mortal body, destined to die, returns to the earth, "it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body." After physical death the saints are still alive in heaven with Christ, a spiritual body of believers that will never die.

Then when the last trumpet sounds Christ will bring back with Him the spiritual body of saints in heaven to be reunited with physical (although now immortal & incorruptible) body that shall be as man was created to be at the beginning when God created man. Since mankind will once again inherit the whole new earth that God shall make new, and the new earth and the changed human will be forever and ever with our Lord.

If this is not true, there would be zero purpose for raising and changing the saints natural physical body from the grave to be immortal & incorruptible to live with Christ forever on the new earth. We could have simply remained in heaven a spiritual body of believers there, without need for a new earth. If saints too are not physically resurrected to immortality and incorruptibility, only those DEAD, dying without the Spirit of life would be resurrected to stand before God in the end.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15 (KJV) And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Daniel 12:1-2 (KJV) And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

According to the Word of God ALL who have physically died shall be physically resurrected. Those who have done evil (the dead without eternal spirit life), resurrected to stand before God at the GWTJ, called to give account according to what is found written in the books and the book of life.

 

[Zao is life]

This is why, in my view, which you don't bother to carefully read, I believe "the first resurrection" itself is Christ's bodily resurrection and all believers spiritually have part in His resurrection. I do NOT call that act of spiritually having part in His resurrection a resurrection itself. It results in going from being spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ,

No it does not. Paul states very clearly a few times in different places that it results in the quickening of the human body. Spiritual life in Christ comes from being born of the Spirit of God and having the life of Christ dwelling in us. So does the quickening of the body.

Unlike you and millions of others I don't form my own theology out of what scripture does not say.

Copy @rwb

 

[rwb]

No it does not. Paul states very clearly a few times in different places that it results in the quickening of the human body. Spiritual life in Christ comes from being born of the Spirit of God and having the life of Christ dwelling in us. So does the quickening of the body.

Unlike you and millions of others I don't form my own theology out of what scripture does not say.

Copy @rwb

Why would a human body that already possesses life need to be quickened (made alive)? Paul is not addressing corpses! It is our spirit that needs to be born again (made alive; quickened), and this happens through the power of the Holy Spirit within us the moment we believe.

 

[Zao is life]

Why would a human body that already possesses life need to be quickened (made alive)?

Paul says the body is dead. You're showing that your theology is built upon what is not written.

"If Christ's Spirit is in you,

(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.

(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.".

"God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even us being dead (the body being dead) in sins,

(1) He has syzōopoiéō (quickened together with) Christ, (by grace ye are saved);

(2) and has raised us up together (synegeírō)

and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:4-6).

The word synegeírō (raised with Christ) is referring to the resurrection of the body, not of the human spirit.

The one who raised Christ from the dead will quicken your mortal bodies if His Spirit dwells in you.

Paul also says the exact same thing in his letter to the Colossians (Colossians 2:12 and Colossians 3:1).

It cannot happen unless someone has been born of the Spirit and Christ dwells in the person.

 

[rwb]

Paul says the body is dead. You're showing that your theology is built upon what is not written.

Was Paul speaking to physically DEAD bodies when he spoke these things? Of course not! So, what 'body' was Paul referring to that was DEAD because of sin? When read in context, we understand what Paul means when he says, "the body is dead because of sin". He is speaking of the one who continues to be carnally minded, lusting after the things of the flesh. They are dead because of sin because they do NOT have the life-giving Spirit of Christ within them. This is how the body is dead because of sin, not physically dead, but spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. Why? Paul says it's by walking (living our lives) according to the desires of the flesh we have not been set free from the "law of sin and death", being weak through fleshly desires, and not submitting ourselves to the law of God through Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 8:1-14 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Zao is life]

Was Paul speaking to physically DEAD bodies when he spoke these things?

Ask Paul.

But you have not asked Paul, nor will you ask him, because you have erected our own theology on top of what is not written.

"If Christ's Spirit is in you,

(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.

(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.".

Your body will die because it is dead because of sin but if the Spirit of Christ is in you, He will give life to (quicken) your mortal body, because Christ took on human flesh and became not only a man, but mankind (the last Adam who is the Son of man) so that through the quickening of the body through the Spirit that He experienced, those who He indwells (who have been born of the Spirit of God) will likewise experience the same quickening of the body through His Spirit that dwells in you.
​

Any other theology other than Paul's is extra-biblical, built on top of what is not written, and your theology is extra-biblical.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

1 Timothy 5:6
But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

Matthew 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the deadbury their dead.

Luke 9:60
Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

Revelation 3:1
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead intrespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

 

[Zao is life]

Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We are not now seated in heaven in our dead and decaying bodies. Our Spirit was born of God and Christ now dwells in us and our bodies are being quickened. Our bodies are not yet alive forever. But Christ dwells in us, therefore because Christ is risen, together with Christ we are seated with Him in heaven. Positionally we are in heaven though we are in our dead and decaying bodies here on earth - and God did this for us in Christ even when we were dead in sins.

In other words, God did not wait for us to become alive in our sins before Christ died for us and rose again. Even when we were dead in sins, God hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).

Your theology you express by what you quote above has our bodies already raised, and the logical consequence of the way you interpret what you quote is that you believe you are seated in heaven in your dead and decaying body right now, and there is no further process of sanctification and quickening of your body needed - your body that Paul also told you is dead because of sin.

If you have been born of the Spirit you are spiritually alive in Christ but your body is dead because of sin. You are not living in an immortal body. But if Christ dwells in you though your body is dead and decaying because of sin, His Spirit in you will also quicken your mortal body.
​

If you have been born of the Spirit, your spirit is not quickened because it's not dead and there is no need for your spirit to be quickened. Your body is dead because of sin and your body is quickened already in Christ - positionally - but not yet in reality. You still live in the hope of the resurrection of your body from the dead.

Not my words - Paul's words. @rwb @Spiritual Israelite @Stewardofthemystery​

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

We are not now seated in heaven in our dead and decaying bodies. Our Spirit was born of God and Christ now dwells in us and our bodies are being quickened. Our bodies are not yet alive forever. But Christ dwells in us, therefore because Christ is risen, together with Christ we are seated with Him in heaven. Positionally we are in heaven though we are in our dead and decaying bodies here on earth - and God did this for us in Christ even when we were dead in sins.

In other words, God did not wait for us to become alive in our sins before Christ died for us and rose again. Even when we were dead in sins, God hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved).

Your theology you express by what you quote above has our bodies already raised, and the logical consequence of the way you interpret what you quote is that you believe you are seated in heaven in your dead and decaying body right now, and there is no further process of sanctification and quickening of your body needed - your body that Paul also told you is dead because of sin.

1 Timothy 5:6
But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

This is talking about being “spiritually dead”because of sin.

When we are born again of the Holy Spirit our physical bodies do not change, it is our heart/mind/spirit that is renewed.

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

 

[Zao is life]

1 Timothy 5:6
But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

There was no spiritual life in her. The Greek word "lives" in "while she lives" is zao - which in the New Testament is always talking about someone who is alive in the body (i.e has not died, whose body is not dead in the sense of having breathed its last).

Zao is always associated with life in the body. I can supply you with the full list of all the verses (which is very long) but I already have to explain what God's gospel is to you, because you are following the gospel of human theology that you believe in and have faith in.

Do you believe that the reason Jesus took on a human body and took the sins of mankind upon Himself and died - His body died - and that the reason Jesus' dead body was quickened by the Spirit and He rose again from the dead is because death - the death of the body - is the enemy of God?

Mankind was created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven". Death is the enemy of God.

If you do not believe this, then consider why the resurrection of the body (through the quickening of the Spirit of God) is spoken of in all these verses:-

The Greek noun used in the New Testament for bodily resurrection from death is o anástasis: THE Resurrection. Without exception, each and every time the word anástasis appears in the New Testament, it's referring to (the) resurrection of the body (which is an integral part of the gospel):-

|| Matthew 22:23, 28 & 30-31; Mark 12:18 & 23; Luke 2:34; Luke 14:14; Luke 20:27, 33, 35-36; John 5:29; John 11:24-25; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:2; Acts 4:33; Acts 17:18, 32; Acts 23:6, 8; Acts 24:15, 21; Acts 26:23; Romans 1:4; Romans 6:5; 1 Corinthians 15:12-13, 21, 42; Philippians 3:10; II Timothy 2:18; Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 11:35; I Peter 1:3; I Peter 3:21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

The other words associated with The Resurrection (o anástasis) are:-

égersis; anístēmi; and egeírō.

Note: The words are not always used in reference to the resurrection: Sometimes they are used for rising up (as in "get up!"), or being raised up as a leader, or rising from sleep (in a normal sense),

but wherever and whenever they are speaking about rising from death, they are speaking about the resurrection of the body from the dead:-

|| Matthew 9:25; Matthew 10:8; Matthew 11:5; Matthew 14:2; Matthew 17:9; Matthew 16:21; Matthew 17:23; Matthew 20:19; Matthew 26:32; Matthew 27:52-53 & 63-64; Matthew 28:6-7; Mark 6:14 & 16; Mark 12:26; Mark 14:28; Mark 16:6 & 14; Luke 7:14; Luke 7:22; Luke 8:54; Luke 9:7 & 22; Luke 14:13-14; Luke 20:37; Luke 24:6; Luke 24:34; John 2:19-21; John 5:21; John 5:28-29; John 6:39, 40 & 44; John 11:23-35; John 12:1, 9 & 17; John 21:14; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:24, 31-32; Acts 3:15 & 26; Acts 4:1-2, 10 & 33; Acts 5:30; Acts 10:40; Acts 13:30 & 33-37; Acts 17:18 & 31-32; Acts 23:6-8; Acts 24:15 & 21; Acts 26:8; Romans 1:4; Romans 4:23-25; Romans 6:4-5; Romans 6:9; Romans 7:4; Romans 8:11; Romans 8:34; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 15:4, 12-23, 35-36, 42-45, 50-57; 2 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 4:14; 2 Corinthians 5:15; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:20; Ephesians 2:5-6; Ephesians 5:14; Philippians 3:10-11; Colossians 2:12-13; Colossians 3:1 (Compare with Romans 6:5); 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16; 2 Timothy 2:8 & 18; Hebrews 6:1-2; Hebrews 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3-5; 1 Peter 1:21; 1 Peter 3:18 & 21; Revelation 20:5-6. ||

Not one New Testament verse employing any of the above listed words associated with The Resurrection (o anástasis) is not talking about the resurrection of the body. Not one.

Christ took on a human body and took the sin of humans upon Himself and died and rose again from death because death is the enemy of God and death is the wages of sin.

Your theology has Christ taking on a human body and taking human sin upon Himself, suffering in His body, dying, and His body being quickened and Christ rising from the dead all so that we can be "spiritually" quickened (made alive from the dead) so that "we can go to heaven when we die".

But God's gospel has us being born of the Spirit of God so that through the indwelling of Christ's Spirit in us, our mortal bodies will be quickened by the Spirit of Christ in us, and we will rise from the dead bodily with Christ's bodily resurrection from the dead -

Because "since death is through man, the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be [ζωοποιέω zōopoiéō] made alive. -- 1 Corinthians 15:21-22."

See how the word death is associated with the body in all the above scriptures. "The resurrection" is always and only talking about the resurrection of the body in the New Testament.

But your "gospel" has mankind being spiritually "quickened" (from the dead) by Christ, and according to your gospel:

"So that's all OK now. Now we will go to heaven when we die because we are alive in our spirit, and as an extra bonus, we will receive a new body one day too".

Well that's not why Christ took on a human body and took the sin that caused the death of humans (death of the body) upon Himself, died and rose again from the dead, my friend, because mankind was created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven". Death is the enemy of God.

Why do you think the Revelation talks about a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells?

When did your spirit die? Was it before you were born into the world (born of the flesh)? Or was it after you were born of the flesh? When did you receive spiritual life? Before you were born of the Spirit of God, or after you were born of the Spirit?

When was your spirit "quickened: ("from the dead") by God? Was it before you were born of the Spirit? Or after you were born of the Spirit?

"Christ is risen [egeiro] from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection [anastasis] of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be quickened [zoopoieo: made alive]." -- 1 Corinthians 15:20-22.

"If Christ's Spirit is in you,

(1) your body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit (of Christ) is your (eternal) life [zoe] because of (Christ's) righteousness.

(2) Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also quicken [zōopoiéō] your mortal bodies through his Spirit who lives in you.".

When the two prophets appear, they will be rejected by the vast majority of the leaders and teachers and congregations in Christian churches, because they will be exposing all the false theology concocted in the minds of men and taught in the churches.​