When are the dead and living in Christ caught up to the Lord?

[rebuilder 454]

If i ever get close to you, i will give you a heads up and we can meet for good prayer, good fellowship and good coffee.

Would love that Dave.
I am in s texas.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Right. He never says that he sees anyone with bodies there. Pretribs make that up in their own imaginations.

They are given robes to wear.
The great multitude came out of the trib AND ARE NOT UNDER THE ALTAR.
MARTYRS NUMBER FULFILLED.

(Not that anything from the Bible matters to you. )

 

[rebuilder 454]

Are you saying the destruction of Babylon is at the second coming on horses?

I don't know of any postribber that believes that.
Babylon is destroyed during the trib.

 

[honeycomb]

Babylon is destroyed during the trib.

No, not really. Babylon is destroyed at the 7th seal, 7th trump and 7th vial, which is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the wrath of God.

Here's the 7th Trump:

Rev. 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Here's the 7th Vial:

Rev. 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

They are the same except that there is hail listed in the Trump but not in the Vial. …but guess what ?The hail is so devastating that it’s listed separately in the last verse of chapter 16; it will destroy the armies of Hamon-gog and Armageddon.

Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

The Mount of Olives splits in two and Jerusalem is divided into three parts. The grapes of wrath are now squeezed in the winepress of Rev. 15:20.

Also in the 7th Vial:

Rev. 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

In the book of Revelation, the Islands and mountains represent governments and nations. They're history because they now belong to the King of kings and Lord of lords. This verse describes the same event of the 7th Trump and 7th Vial.

Here's the Trump version:

Rev. 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It’s all over…here comes the BIG hailstones:

Rev. 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

What happens next? We enter the 1,000-year millennial reign of Christ.

PEtRA

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You really really hate those exposing you.
One personal attack after another.

Please stop your hypocrisy. You just keep digging the hole deeper. You've been asked to exegete scripture many times now and you just wn't do it. How can you possibly think you have proven anything when all you do is make claims and then do nothing to back them up. Explain that to me.

You are one miserable individual.
Take a break, get some spirit in you and then debate without all the hateful mess.

LOL. Why are you judging me? I'm merely calling out your hypocrisy (as if you never hurl personal insults? LOL) and pointing out how you never exegete any scripture and think you somehow have proven something despite never doing that.

Psssst...concept vs concept. Ditch the hate.

I totally understand your frustration.
It is all over you

LOL. What hate? What frustration? I'm certainly not frustrated that I can't counter your claims or anything like that. I exegete scripture frequently and you never do, but you somehow think you won the debate. That is hilarious. You try to distract from the fact that you can't exegete scripture and back up your claims with all this nonsense about my supposed hate and frustration.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They are given robes to wear.
The great multitude came out of the trib AND ARE NOT UNDER THE ALTAR.
MARTYRS NUMBER FULFILLED.

LOL. How in the world do you think that making statements like this proves anything?

And do you miss that the robes and such are only symbolic and not literal robes?

Revelation 1:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Can you see here that the "fine linen" that the Lamb's wife is given is not literal fine linen, but rather symbolically represents "the righteousness of saints"?

It's your lack of attention to detail like this that causes you to misinterpret scripture.

(Not that anything from the Bible matters to you. )

You rant and rave about my supposed insults even though you frequently say insulting things like this. You are a hypocrite.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Isa 61:1-2
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; He hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
KJV

Per Luke 4 at the start of Christ's Ministry, Jesus quoted all the above in 'blue', and then closed the Book of Isaiah, and said at that point in His Ministry, that portion of Isaiah 61:1-2 was fulfilled.

But that portion above in 'red', He did NOT read, because that is about His future return, which even we still await today! And that... is the subject of the Luke 21:22 "days of vengeance" that all things written may be fulfilled.

Of course that Isaiah 61:2 portion in red was going to happen in the future for that generation of Jews which Christ was speaking to concerning the "days of vengeance". But you forget where that reference to "vengeance" first came from. It originated in the Deuteronomy 32 "Song of Moses" that the children of Israel were to memorize, even before they entered the land of Canaan. That prophetic "Song of Moses" was a list of the catastrophic events with which God would "judge His people" in their "latter end". God would "render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me". God would "avenge the blood of his servants", which is exactly the crime of which Mystery Babylon / Old Jerusalem was accused.

All of those judgements listed in the Deuteronomy 32 "Song of Moses" were brought upon that "wicked and perverse generation" that Christ called His own first-century ethnic nation of Israel. Those "days of vengeance" in Judea and Jerusalem came to pass exactly as predicted for the nation's "latter end" when God "shattered the power of the holy people". These "days of vengeance" are NOT pending for our own future. You have drunk the Koolaid on that idea.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, not really. Babylon is destroyed at the 7th seal, 7th trump and 7th vial, which is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the wrath of God.

Here's the 7th Trump:

Here's the 7th Vial:

They are the same except that there is hail listed in the Trump but not in the Vial. …but guess what ?The hail is so devastating that it’s listed separately in the last verse of chapter 16; it will destroy the armies of Hamon-gog and Armageddon.

The Mount of Olives splits in two and Jerusalem is divided into three parts. The grapes of wrath are now squeezed in the winepress of Rev. 15:20.

Also in the 7th Vial:


In the book of Revelation, the Islands and mountains represent governments and nations. They're history because they now belong to the King of kings and Lord of lords. This verse describes the same event of the 7th Trump and 7th Vial.

Here's the Trump version:


It’s all over…here comes the BIG hailstones:

What happens next? We enter the 1,000-year millennial reign of Christ.

View attachment 49162PEtRA

In your doctrine, is the second coming at the white horses?
IOW, Is he riding a white horse with the saints accompanying Him on horses?

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL. How in the world do you think that making statements like this proves anything?

And do you miss that the robes and such are only symbolic and not literal robes?

Revelation 1:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Can you see here that the "fine linen" that the Lamb's wife is given is not literal fine linen, but rather symbolically represents "the righteousness of saints"?

It's your lack of attention to detail like this that causes you to misinterpret scripture.


You rant and rave about my supposed insults even though you frequently say insulting things like this. You are a hypocrite.

Lol
Hilarious.
Here is your attempt to exegate :
"""Revelation 1:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Can you see here that the "fine linen" that the Lamb's wife is given is not literal fine linen, but rather symbolically represents "the righteousness of saints"?
It's your lack of attention to detail like this that causes you to misinterpret scripture.""""

Wow...this says it all.
Ahem....here is the REAL Rev 1:8;
Rev 1
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
My advice to you is;
It's your lack of attention to detail like this that causes you to misinterpret scripture.

You stumble all over yourself because you do not know the bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, not really. Babylon is destroyed at the 7th seal, 7th trump and 7th vial, which is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the wrath of God.

Here's the 7th Trump:

Here's the 7th Vial:

They are the same except that there is hail listed in the Trump but not in the Vial. …but guess what ?The hail is so devastating that it’s listed separately in the last verse of chapter 16; it will destroy the armies of Hamon-gog and Armageddon.

The Mount of Olives splits in two and Jerusalem is divided into three parts. The grapes of wrath are now squeezed in the winepress of Rev. 15:20.

Also in the 7th Vial:


In the book of Revelation, the Islands and mountains represent governments and nations. They're history because they now belong to the King of kings and Lord of lords. This verse describes the same event of the 7th Trump and 7th Vial.

Here's the Trump version:


It’s all over…here comes the BIG hailstones:

What happens next? We enter the 1,000-year millennial reign of Christ.

View attachment 49162PEtRA

Omission is the foundation of your doctrine.
Do you really think you can void out the pretrib rapture verses?
Those verses are not there to omit other verses.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Please stop your hypocrisy. You just keep digging the hole deeper. You've been asked to exegete scripture many times now and you just wn't do it. How can you possibly think you have proven anything when all you do is make claims and then do nothing to back them up. Explain that to me.


LOL. Why are you judging me? I'm merely calling out your hypocrisy (as if you never hurl personal insults? LOL) and pointing out how you never exegete any scripture and think you somehow have proven something despite never doing that.


LOL. What hate? What frustration? I'm certainly not frustrated that I can't counter your claims or anything like that. I exegete scripture frequently and you never do, but you somehow think you won the debate. That is hilarious. You try to distract from the fact that you can't exegete scripture and back up your claims with all this nonsense about my supposed hate and frustration.

You are 90 % cheap shot, 5% bible, 5% other ingredients.
That is how anyone can see you are angry and frustrated.
But I do understand your frustration and inability to hold a civil conversation.
The verses I bring are not considered by you.
You see them as fodder to be reframed and neutered.
You STARTING PLACE IS wrong.
You START every thought from an erroneous amil doctrine.
Just ludicrous and there is ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE of ever getting on the same page.
It would be one thing if you could Converse civilly, but you have demonstrated 2 or 3 hundred times that that ain't going to happen

 

[WPM]

You are 90 % cheap shot, 5% bible, 5% other ingredients.
That is how anyone can see you are angry and frustrated.
But I do understand your frustration and inability to hold a civil conversation.
The verses I bring are not considered by you.
You see them as fodder to be reframed and neutered.
You STARTING PLACE IS wrong.
You START every thought from an erroneous amil doctrine.
Just ludicrous and there is ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE of ever getting on the same page.
It would be one thing if you could Converse civilly, but you have demonstrated 2 or 3 hundred times that that ain't going to happen

You are describing yourself! You're unable to refute any of his arguments. All you have is petty name-calling.

 

[WPM]

Do you really think you can void out the pretrib rapture verses?
Those verses are not there to omit other verses.

LOL. How about actually quoting them and exegeting them. All we have is your opinions. That's because your beliefs are not in the Word of God. They must be taught by your teachers.

 

[WPM]

You stumble all over yourself because you do not know the bible.

LOL. Mr Projection!

 

[WPM]

You really really hate those exposing you.
One personal attack after another.

You are one miserable individual.
Take a break, get some spirit in you and then debate without all the hateful mess.
Psssst...concept vs concept. Ditch the hate.

I totally understand your frustration.
It is all over you

You have a habit of describing yourself in every one of your posts. You must be so miserable!

 

[WPM]

You know darn well that I have backed up my view with many verses in other posts. And I explain in detail exactly how I interpret them and why I interpret them the way I do. You NEVER do that.

All they have is insults and avoidance throughout each thread. They are yet to bring to the table and prove one single passage they have teaches Pretrib. When their claims are challenged their doctrine goes up in a puff of smoke.

 

[WPM]

No, not really. Babylon is destroyed at the 7th seal, 7th trump and 7th vial, which is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the wrath of God.

Here's the 7th Trump:

Here's the 7th Vial:

They are the same except that there is hail listed in the Trump but not in the Vial. …but guess what ?The hail is so devastating that it’s listed separately in the last verse of chapter 16; it will destroy the armies of Hamon-gog and Armageddon.

The Mount of Olives splits in two and Jerusalem is divided into three parts. The grapes of wrath are now squeezed in the winepress of Rev. 15:20.

Also in the 7th Vial:


In the book of Revelation, the Islands and mountains represent governments and nations. They're history because they now belong to the King of kings and Lord of lords. This verse describes the same event of the 7th Trump and 7th Vial.

Here's the Trump version:


It’s all over…here comes the BIG hailstones:

What happens next? We enter the 1,000-year millennial reign of Christ.

View attachment 49162PEtRA

But time is over at the last trump. The wicked are destroyed. The earth is liberated from the bondage of corruption – death and decay. Why would we need a future millennium? Where is this taught elsewhere in Scripture?

 

[WPM]

The Bible is like a basket weave. It has many many strands that make up the whole. They're all integral they all have importance. What I am seeing here is many many people omitting things and trying to pull the strands out of the basket. The strands, or we can say verses, all build and make up the basket. Maybe somebody can come along and say oh no that's not important, as I see with spiritual Israelite trying to diminish verses or just flat-out omit them. So I endeavor 100% to bring the Bible into the debate. Nothing else. And that's the problem. Because if you go against the Bible that's on you, but what I am seeing ,is me bringing the Bible ,and actually forcing people to go against it.

No you do not. All you do is avoid scripture.

Show us your biblical support for a rapture of the Church followed by a tribulation period followed by 3rd coming?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lol
Hilarious.
Here is your attempt to exegate :
"""Revelation 1:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Can you see here that the "fine linen" that the Lamb's wife is given is not literal fine linen, but rather symbolically represents "the righteousness of saints"?
It's your lack of attention to detail like this that causes you to misinterpret scripture.""""

Wow...this says it all.
Ahem....here is the REAL Rev 1:8;
Rev 1
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
My advice to you is;
It's your lack of attention to detail like this that causes you to misinterpret scripture.

You stumble all over yourself because you do not know the bible.

It was Revelation 19:8. As I'm sure you know. So, I made a little typo. It wasn't a lack of attention to detail. This site is really slow for me right now, so it's causing me to make typos here and there as I have to wait for the screen to catch up to what I'm typing. As if you never have done any typos? Good grief. You are incredibly immature. The point remains the same. The references to white robes and fine linen and such is all symbolic. It figures you would ignore the point and make a big deal about a typo.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You have a habit of describing yourself in every one of your posts. You must be so miserable!

His hypocrisy and lack of self awareness is unbelievable. And, no matter how many times we ask him to exegete scripture, he won't do it. I've never seen such ignorance from someone who claims to win every debate without providing any scriptural support. You can't get any more delusional than that.