When are the dead and living in Christ caught up to the Lord?

[rebuilder 454]

What about it? Provide the verse you’re referring to.

Rev 19, as I told you.
Practically the entire chapter.
You do not know where it is?
Last few pages of your bible.
You provide where I am wrong

Go to it and teach me.
Show me where the church is not there, in heaven, at the end of the GT, as is vividly showcased.

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL!!! What a hypocrite you are. All you ever post are generalities. You are too lazy to exegete any scripture, so you just share opinions left and right without doing anything to back them up. Nothing at all. Stop your nonsense and babbling and start exegeting scripture for once. Nothing you say matters unless you actually do something to back it up with scripture, which you never do.


Yes, let's go. You can, for the first time ever, back up all your claims with the Bible. Go for it. Please. For once. Why don't you start by going through Matthew 25:1-13 verse by verse and showing exactly how and why you interpret it like you do while taking the time to look at other supporting scripture to show what happens to people like the foolish virgins who will say "Lord, Lord, open to us" when Jesus comes. Why don't you explain to everyone exactly how the foolish virgins represent Christians even though Jesus will say He doesn't know them.


You don't exegete any scripture. At least, you never have. How about starting now?

"""You don't exegete any scripture. At least, you never have. How about starting now?"""

Lies are your banner huh?

 

[honeycomb]

Rev 19, as I told you.
Practically the entire chapter.
You do not know where it is?
Last few pages of your bible.
You provide where I am wrong

Go to it and teach me.
Show me where the church is not there, in heaven, at the end of the GT, as is vividly showcased.

In Revelation 19, exegete your false premise that the church has gone from the earth and is now in heaven.

 

[honeycomb]

Continued…

However, the dead in Christ are in heaven. It is written:

Rev. 6:9
And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Look who John sees! The "dead in Christ" who are under the altar of God, right there in heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In Revelation 19, exegete your false premise that the church has gone from the earth and is now in heaven.

He can't, of course. It only says there that the bride has made herself ready for the marriage and not that the marriage has already taken place at that point as pretribs claim.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Continued…

However, the dead in Christ are in heaven. It is written:

Look who John sees! The "dead in Christ" who are under the altar of God, right there in heaven.

Right. He never says that he sees anyone with bodies there. Pretribs make that up in their own imaginations.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"""You don't exegete any scripture. At least, you never have. How about starting now?"""

Lies are your banner huh?

When have you ever exegeted any scripture? Never that I've seen. Do you even know what that means? Just listing some claims and making general references to a scripture passage or two is not a case of exegeting scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Generalized nothingburger void of any verses

You know darn well that I have backed up my view with many verses in other posts. And I explain in detail exactly how I interpret them and why I interpret them the way I do. You NEVER do that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

He won't address this. He somehow thinks that Jesus would say that to a true believer. No, He absolutely would not. And, when you look at other scripture that talks about what will happen to those who say "Lord, Lord" at His second coming it shows that they will be cast into the fire "where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth". He thinks they are turned away and forced to face tribulation for 7 years while having to deal with "the Antichrist", but that is not at all what scripture teaches about what will happen to people like that when Jesus comes.

I will go with the Bible
"

In Revelation 19, exegete your false premise that the church has gone from the earth and is now in heaven.

Here it is
Rev19
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I will go with the Bible

Why don't you try using the Bible to show how and why you believe what you do? Can you do that? You haven't ever done it before, but you can start now.

"
Here it is
Rev19
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

And how do you interpret this exactly? Is it just too much trouble to ask you to actually show exactly how and why you interpret scripture the way you do? You were asked to exegete Revelation 19, not just copy and paste it as anyone can do. If people in the church are shown to be in heaven does that mean they need to have bodies? Are the souls of the dead in Christ not part of the church? How exactly do you think Revelation 19 supports your pretrib rapture theory?

 

[honeycomb]

I will go with the Bible
"
Here it is
Rev19
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

The 7th Trump is still sounding as Jesus Christ returns to the earth having judged the great whore and avenged the blood of His servants. Babylon the great is history!

 

[rebuilder 454]

The 7th Trump is still sounding as Jesus Christ returns to the earth having judged the great whore and avenged the blood of His servants. Babylon the great is history!

Are you saying the destruction of Babylon is at the second coming on horses?

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL!!! What a hypocrite you are. All you ever post are generalities. You are too lazy to exegete any scripture, so you just share opinions left and right without doing anything to back them up. Nothing at all. Stop your nonsense and babbling and start exegeting scripture for once. Nothing you say matters unless you actually do something to back it up with scripture, which you never do.


Yes, let's go. You can, for the first time ever, back up all your claims with the Bible. Go for it. Please. For once. Why don't you start by going through Matthew 25:1-13 verse by verse and showing exactly how and why you interpret it like you do while taking the time to look at other supporting scripture to show what happens to people like the foolish virgins who will say "Lord, Lord, open to us" when Jesus comes. Why don't you explain to everyone exactly how the foolish virgins represent Christians even though Jesus will say He doesn't know them.


You don't exegete any scripture. At least, you never have. How about starting now?

You really really hate those exposing you.
One personal attack after another.

You are one miserable individual.
Take a break, get some spirit in you and then debate without all the hateful mess.
Psssst...concept vs concept. Ditch the hate.

I totally understand your frustration.
It is all over you

 

[David in NJ]

You really really hate those exposing you.
One personal attack after another.

You are one miserable individual.
Take a break, get some spirit in you and then debate without all the hateful mess.
Psssst...concept vs concept. Ditch the hate.

I totally understand your frustration.
It is all over you

Good Morning,
i am going out for a coffee - you coming?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Continued…

However, the dead in Christ are in heaven. It is written:

Look who John sees! The "dead in Christ" who are under the altar of God, right there in heaven.

Good clue!
Maybe you have returned to debate and are no longer a spiritual Israelite frustration babbler.
Good to see someone pointing at their bible.

You noted the MARTYRS.
You correctly pointed out " under the Altar ".
You left out " till their number is fulfilled"

That points to the millions martyred in the trib.
Note that the millions martyred in the trib are NOT UNDER THE ALTAR.
They are before the throne.
You unwittingly placed the number as fulfilled by referring to the PREVIOUS confinement to "under the altar"

This is the same mistake I have seem over the years in Matthew, in the "one taken, one left behind."
Postribbers ignore the setting, then naturally ascribe error to the obvious. ( via omitting context)

 

[rebuilder 454]

Good Morning,
i am going out for a coffee - you coming?

Would love to do just that.
I think I was in your area a couple years ago.
Thank you for a friendly thought .
( mobile alabama doing ins adjusting)

 

[David in NJ]

Good clue!
Maybe you have returned to debate and are no longer a spiritual Israelite frustration baller.
Good to see someone pointing at their bible.

You noted the MARTERS.
You correctly pointed out " under the Altar ".
You left out " till their number is fulfilled"

That points to the millions martyred in the trib.
Note that the millions martyred in the trib are NOT UNDER THE ALTAR.
They are before the throne.
You unwittingly placed the number as fulfilled by referring to the PREVIOUS confinement to "under the altar"

This is the same mistake I have seem over the years in Matthew in the one taken, one left behind.
Postribbers ignore the setting, then naturally ascribe error to the obvious. ( via omitting context)

You are ignoring the FACT that NO ONE is raptured until AFTER the "rest of their brethren are killed as they were".

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?
”Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed."

 

[David in NJ]

Would love to do just that.
I think I was in your area a couple years ago.
Thank you for a friendly thought .
( mobile alabama doing ins adjusting)

If i ever get close to you, i will give you a heads up and we can meet for good prayer, good fellowship and good coffee.

 

[rebuilder 454]

In Revelation 19, exegete your false premise that the church has gone from the earth and is now in heaven.

The fact that we have all the pretrib rapture verses accompanying Rev 19 testifies you are embracing error.
Obviously.
The fact that the AC kills EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD REFUSING THE MARK DURING THE TRIB , leaves no postribber running from cave to cave DURING the trib.
All of you are beheaded after finding out you are looking to the coming of the false christ on a white horse

Every postribber is watching and waiting for the AC. ( there is a crown for those waiting for the rapture)
Well, you will soon meet him.
It will be spectacular!!
I hope you guys can keep your heads in the heat of capture.
You guys will need a clear mind.!
Ironically, to your credit, you receive the martyrs crown. Possibly the highest reward.
And your dirty robes will be washed in the blood of Jesus.

We just get to heaven different ways.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are ignoring the FACT that NO ONE is raptured until AFTER the "rest of their brethren are killed as they were".

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?
”Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed."

It says they ALL TAKE THE MARK or die.
Note "ALL".
You don't get it.
All die.
Martyrs fulfilled during the trib.

You missed it.
The martyrs are NO LONGER under the altar