The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

[Spiritual Israelite]

That idea is put to rest in this passage, among others,

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Much love!

What are you even talking about? What idea is put to rest exactly? No one denied that we will be bodily resurrected in the future. But, that is not what this passage is talking about:

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Paul was talking in present tense here about being saved by way of going from previously being spiritually dead in sins to spiritually alive in Christ. He indicated that we are spiritually raised up "together" and made to "sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus". In verse 6 Paul was speaking figuratively. Do you have some kind of problem with figurative text or something?

 

[marks]

but the word pneuma is also used interchangeably in the New Testament in reference to the soul and the spirit.

Is it? Can you show me any examples?

Hebrews seems to me to be saying they are different, and that the word of God divides them apart.

Hebrews 4:12 KJV
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Much love!

 

[Douggg]

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

I think verse 6 is that Jesus is in heaven as our advocate, that we are there with Him in His heart in His love for us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I think verse 6 is that Jesus is in heaven as our advocate, that we are there with Him in His heart in His love for us.

So, you interpret it figuratively and/or spiritually as well then, right? It's obviously not talking about us being there with Him literally, but spiritually. Paul relates it directly to what he talked about in verses 4 and 5 which clearly is in relation to our current spiritual salvation after previously being spiritually dead in sins. He even put "by grace you are saved" in parentheses there to make it clear as to what he was talking about.

 

[marks]

What are you even talking about?

Just FYI . . . I reached my fill of your contempt for others yesterday . . . so you may not see many or even any replies from me.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just FYI . . . I reached my fill of your contempt for others yesterday . . . so you may not see many or even any replies from me.

Much love!

I couldn't care less. I will talk to others who aren't so hypersensitive on a forum that everyone knows will involve debate.

 

[marks]

I think verse 6 is that Jesus is in heaven as our advocate, that we are there with Him in His heart in His love for us.

This is how I see it. Being baptized into Christ is a real thing, and having been immersed into Him, where He is, there we are.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

I believe we have a real spiritual existence in the celetial realm, where we are together with each other and with Jesus. This is one reason why division is so contrary to Christian brotherhood. And when I see people who identify as Christians, yet act in ways so as to divide, and push away, instead of drawing together, I notice that contradiction, and I tend to believe what people do over their claims about them self.

We are unified in the Spirit (if we are), so where is the unification between us? If we are all Christians? But then we can be mixed bags also, so there is a place for mercy, and patience, and compassion, also earmarks of the true Christian.

2 Corinthians 5:1-3 KJV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

This verse even goes so far as to say we now have a celestial body, and we are awaiting that celestial body to "clothe upon" our terrestrial body, taking on its properties of immortality and incorruptibility.

To directly address your comment, I think the fact of the matter is that our new creation spirit is not bound in space/time, and is united with Christ, as He is in the heavens, then so are we.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I couldn't care less. I will talk to others who aren't so hypersensitive on a forum that everyone knows will involve debate.

Of course it is debate, that's what I'm here for.

You can say I'm hypersensitive, and I can say you are contemptuous of others (not just me), the reader can sort it out I'm certain!

Much love!

 

[TribulationSigns]

What a load of trash.​

It seems that you are offended by my use of Scripture in discussing the "first resurrection." And then you have attempted to reinterpret the concept of "resurrection" throughout the Bible to align with your own flawed beliefs, but it appears that you have misunderstood the true meaning of the "first resurrection."

Take care.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Of course it is debate, that's what I'm here for.

Hmm. Seems like you're here to play patty cakes and sing Kumbaya. Don't get me wrong. There's a place for that and there's nothing wrong with it. But, not here. I'm all for fellowship, but this is a forum where people mostly are disagreeing with each other and you need to be able to handle that.

You can say I'm hypersensitive,

I already did.

and I can say you are contemptuous of others (not just me), the reader can sort it out I'm certain!

I'm not contemptuous of people disagreeing with me at all. I'm contemptuous of blatantly false doctrine like the pre-trib rapture theory and of people who lie or dishonestly try to make scripture say what they want it to say. You may also have noticed I'm not too fond of people misrepresenting my view. Especially after I correct their misrepresentations and they do it again. I'm also not thrilled when I see people acting as if having the correct end times doctrine is a determining factor in salvation (there's a few like that here).

 

[marks]

Seems like you're here to play patty cakes and sing Kumbaya.

Wisdom is justified by her children, as the Master said.

Much love!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Right. And the good olive tree represents the kingdom of God.

Right. The good olive tree "IS" the Covenant Olive Tree Israel. The only thing that has changed is the BRANCHES of the Covenant Nation.

It is One Tree, One Body, not two! One tree with two sets of branches, natural Covenant branches, and those branches which are grafted into the Covenant Tree. Let's try and be rational here, people. The whole chapter is dealing with God's Covenant with Israel, and its relationship to the Jews and Gentiles. How could the Jews be cut off from the Covenant promises? Well, God answers that question too. They weren't all the eternal Covenant Israel, some were external Covenant Israel. ..and that's how they could be broken off.

Romans 9:4-6

• Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
• Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
• Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"

In other words, because many of the external Covenant were cut off, does not mean the Covenant promise to Israel was made void. It simply means the promise was really to the eternal Covenant Israel "WITHIN" the external Covenant Israel. That's what many don't seem to want to understand. That's what the phrase, "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" declares! The Olive tree is just another of many pictures of external Covenant Israel. Of that, there is no doubt when we receive truth and practice "biblical hermeneutics".

Many of those people with interpretations taken out of context, is pretext. Did God forsake His Covenant promise to Israel? God forbid, but only a remnant, the election of the natural branches, shall stay in this external Covenant tree. And the Gentiles will be grafted into that same Covenant with Israel. Let's read God's word in context, and stop with the pretext.

Romans 11:25-27

• "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
• There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
• For this is my Covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins"

See? The whole chapter is talking about God's Covenant with Israel, and how it will be accomplished. Now many people can talk about everyone having their own view if they like, but we can either receive what is written, or we can wrest it. But not both. The Olive Tree "biblically" represents external Covenant Israel.

 

[Douggg]

So, you interpret it figuratively and/or spiritually as well then, right?

Then, we should refer to you as Figurative Israelite ?

 

[Douggg]

Hmm. Seems like you're here to play patty cakes and sing Kumbaya. Don't get me wrong. There's a place for that and there's nothing wrong with it. But, not here. I'm all for fellowship, but this is a forum where people mostly are disagreeing with each other and you need to be able to handle that.

The point @marks is making, I think is that you, @Spiritual Israelite, apply personal attacks, degrading comments, and mis-representing what others say - in your disagreeing methods . Which tends to degrade a disagreement discussion into an exchange of name calling and accusations.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then, we should refer to you as Figurative Israelite ?

Should we refer to you as Douggg the Comedian?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The point @marks is making, I think is that you, @Spiritual Israelite, apply personal attacks, degrading comments, and mis-representing what others say - in your disagreeing methods .

I don't misrepresent what others say. If someone is being foolish or lying, I will say so every time. Like how foolish and deceptive you are when you try to create a new definition for the word generation to make scripture say what you want it to say.

Despite what you said here, you keep talking to me, so I guess these are not things that bother you too much. I don't plan on changing my methods, just so you know.

 

[Douggg]

I don't misrepresent what others say. If someone is being foolish or lying, I will say so every time. Despite what you said here, you keep talking to me so I guess these are not things that bother you too much. I don't plan on changing my methods, just so you know.

I have considered to take the same action as @marks did.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have considered to take the same action as @marks did.

Which means nothing to me. Don't flatter yourself if you think I'd miss talking to you.

 

[Douggg]

Should we refer to you as Douggg the Comedian?

The point I was making is that you equated "figuratively" with "spiritually". I think you would have been better off just to say that it is obvious that we are not in heaven physically, at the present time. And no-one would disagree with that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The point I was making is that you equated "figuratively" with "spiritually".

No, I didn't equate them. Something spiritual can be described figuratively, as in the case of Ephesians 2:6. The topic in Ephesians 2:4-6 is spiritual salvation which Paul described figuratively as being made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We obviously are not literally sitting in heaven.

I think you would have been better off just to say that it is obvious that we are not in heaven physically, at the present time. And no-one would disagree with that.

I think it would be better for you not to nitpick things like this as it adds nothing of value to the discussion.