The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

[TribulationSigns]

I would suggest that the interlinear infers that Israel will not produce any fruit from when Christ cursed the fig tree until the seventh age when once again israel will begin to produce fruit once more.

I disagree. There is no such thing as seventh age where you belive Israel will begin to produce fruit again after the "age". This is not what it means. G165 means perpetuity of age, eternity, ever (more), never, world without end. There is no "time limit" for Israel to be wither away but will come back and produce fruit again. So you are wrong.

This is also the understanding I get from the Old Testament.

Show me old testament verse with G165.

And having seen fig tree one along the road He came to it and nothing found on it if not leaves only and He says to it Never/No no more from you fruit let there be to/until the age And withered immediately the fig tree.​

It sounds like your or translator's opionion since you were trying to "paraphrasing" the verse.

It is my view that the age being referred to in the Interlinear is the seventh age and that if we accept that God does not begin to gather Israel to Himself until the conclusion/completion of the fourth age/generation when He redeems them and washes them and renews with Israel the same covenant that He had entered into with Israel at Mt Sinia, that would establish the Nation of Israel as a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations, which they had rebelled against while Moses was up on the mountain with God for 40 days. If Israel enters into this covenant in our near future, then they will once more begin to produce fruit on the fig tree.

False. National Israel is not a holy nation on this side of the Cross. God is talking about the Church here.

1Pe 2:9-10
(9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
(10) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

God will NOT go back to Old Testament Israel after the church has completed her mission as most Dispensationalists believe which is a heresy. Once Chruch has finished securing all Elect, BOTH Jews and Gentiles Elect, Christ will return. That is all. There will not be a time that Israel will have another opportunity to produce fruits. It is not biblically accurate.

 

[Jay Ross]

I disagree. There is no such thing as seventh age where you believe Israel will begin to produce fruit again after the "age". This is not what it means. G165 means perpetuity of age, eternity, ever (more), never, world without end. There is no "time limit" for Israel to be wither away but will come back and produce fruit again. So you are wrong.

For me the Parable in Luke 13:6-9 confirms that Israel will begin to bear fruit in the seventh age.

Luke 13:6-9: - The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree​

​

6 He also spoke this parable: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up/waste the ground?’ 8 But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. 9 And if it bears fruit after that, well. But if not, you can cut it down.’ ”​

​

False. National Israel is not a holy nation on this side of the Cross.

Ezekiel 34 certainly talks about Israel being redeemed by God in the Seventh Age after the Armageddon judgement of the kings of the earth and the heavenly Hosts.

God will NOT go back to Old Testament Israel after the church has completed her mission as most Dispensationalists believe which is a heresy. Once Chruch has finished securing all Elect, BOTH Jews and Gentiles Elect, Christ will return. That is all. There will not be a time that Israel will have another opportunity to produce fruits. It is not biblically accurate.

This is your private opinion that Israel will not have a time or opportunity to produce fruit during the Seventh Age. It is my view that this is biblically accurate.

If you need to argue against what I have posted, your disagreement is not with me but with what is recorded within the scriptures. Interpretation of the scriptures seem to be the problem that you have.

Goodbye

 

[Keraz]

keras, we agree that the Great Tribulation involves the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bows. I am not saying that is what makes your scenario incorrect.

What makes your scenario incorrect is that you are having the Matthew 24:29 begin before the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15.

Here is what Matthew 24:29 says....

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Isn't that what it says in the sixth seal ?

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

You will have read my post about hallucinations.
You are a prime example of not seeing anything that conflicts with your set beliefs, as Rev 6:12 and Matthew 24:29, are NOT the same. Even a child can see that both the sun and the moon effects are different.

As over 100 Bible Prophesies describe, the forthcoming Day the Lord will suddenly and shockingly change the world, will be the next Prophesied event.

 

[Douggg]

You are a prime example of not seeing anything that conflicts with your set beliefs, as Rev 6:12 and Matthew 24:29, are NOT the same.

keras, Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12-14 are such big events, I don't see how they could be separate.

Even a child can see that both the sun and the moon effects are different.

keras, they are the same effect in both Matthew and Revelation. How many times are you going to have the stars fall from heaven ? And the powers of heaven shakened ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is not just "generation" in Matthew 24:34. It is "this generation shall not pass". A generation does not pass, until the life expectancy is over.

You continue to try to create your own defintion for the word "generation". That is foolish and dishonest!

What Jesus was talking about as passing away is the Jewish people. The word generation can refer to a type of people and does not just refer to a period of time. Why can't you get that through your head? You can't even understand what the definitions of that word are, so what can you understand? Apparently, nothing.

Have you never heard it said - that someone's relative "passed away" ? It means that they died, their life span, over.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

You are taking that word completely out of context. NEVER does the word generation refer to someone's life span. That is not a definition of the word generation. Why can't you admit that? Why are you trying to create a definition for that word that doesn't exist? Why can't you be honest instead of trying to make scripture fit your doctrine by making up new definitions for words?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

As a person born before May 1948, I DO expect to see it all; incl the glorious Return. Old, yes; but still alive and capable.

I agree with your explanation of the 'generation' in Matt 24:34 That verse says; ....the present generation, simply meaning : those alive to see the 'fig tree', Judah's return to the holy Land. S.I., can whine and moan is his usual way, the reality of things is not consequential to him.

The Great Tribulation will start with the AoD in the new Temple. But the Sixth Seal in not part of the GT.
You make the bad mistake of moving the Sixth Seal from its proper place in Revelation. It will be the next Prophesied event.

He is defining the word generation to be the average life span of human beings and he cites Psalm 90:10 as evidence of that. But, that is not one of the definitions of the word generation! It is foolish and dishonest to try to create a new definition for that word just to support your false doctrine.

 

[Douggg]

You continue to try to create your own defintion for the word "generation". That is foolish and dishonest!

What Jesus was talking about as passing away is the Jewish people. The word generation can refer to a type of people and does not just refer to a period of time. Why can't you get that through your head? You can't even understand what the definitions of that word are, so what can you understand? Apparently, nothing.

You are very inept not to understand "This generation shall not pass" is referring to the life expectancy of a specific generation.

The great tribulation will affect everyone on earth, not just the Jews. Jesus will return to end the great tribulation that is forthcoming.

He is defining the word generation to be the average life span of human beings and he cites Psalm 90:10 as evidence of that. But, that is not one of the definitions of the word generation! It is foolish and dishonest to try to create a new definition for that word just to support your false doctrine.

You are ignoring that the verse says "This generation shall not pass" is talking about life expectancy of a specific generation.

Psalm 90:10 expresses the life expectancy of a generation at the time of King David as 70 years, and if by strength 80 years. And I have presented the life expectancy in several countries around the world that still holds true today.

The parable is not about the definition of a generation. But the life expectancy of a specific generation at the time the fig tree leaves are tender.

I am the baby-boomer generation - i.e born to WWII parents. Later, there were other generation's, such as X and Y.

The parable of the fig tree generation began in 1967. The life-expectancy of that generation ends in 2037.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are very inept not to understand "This generation shall not pass" is referring to the life expectancy of a specific generation.

You are completely foolish and dishonest for making up a definition of the word generation that doesn't exist. Show me any resource which indicates that one of the definitions of the word "generation" is the life expectancy of a human being. It's time for you to put up or shut up, Doug. I have shown you definitions of the Greek word "genea" and definitions of the English word "generation", NONE of which are "the life expectancy of human beings". So, can you provide any resource that indicates that? If not, then you need to admit that you are trying to make up your own definition for that word.

The great tribulation will affect everyone on earth, not just the Jews. Jesus will return to end the great tribulation that is forthcoming.

Tell me your understanding of "the great tribulation". What will it involve exactly and how long do you think it will last?

You are ignoring that the verse says "This generation shall not pass" is talking about life expectancy of a specific generation.

Psalm 90:10 expresses the life expectancy of a generation at the time of King David as 70 years, and if by strength 80 years. And I have presented the life expectancy in several countries around the world that holds true today.

Where does it say that the life expectancy equates with the word generation? Nowhere, including Psalm 90:10!

Pslam 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Where does this say anything about the length of a generation? NOWHERE! It only talks about the life expectancy of man and says nothing at all about the length of a generation. Stop trying to claim that a generation is the life expectancy of human beings. Scripture never teaches this! You will not find that as one of the definitions of the word generation anywhere! Why are you trying to make up a new definition for the word generation? Why are you so dishonest?

 

[Douggg]

I have shown you definitions of the Greek word "genea" and definitions of the English word "generation", NONE of which are "the life expectancy of human beings".

And I have shown you, repeatedly that Matthew 24:34 says "This generation shall not pass". Which has to do with the life expectancy of a specific generation.

The parable is not about the definition of a generation. But the life expectancy of a specific generation at the time the fig tree leaves are tender.

I am the baby-boomer generation - i.e born to WWII parents, following WWII. Later, there were other generation's, which got labeled, such as X and Y.

The parable of the fig tree generation began in 1967. The life-expectancy of that generation ends in 2037.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And I have shown you, repeatedly the Matthew 24:34 says "This generation shall not pass". Which has to do with the life expectancy of a specific generation.

You are trying to say that the word generation there refers to the life expectancy of humans and that's why you believe it refers to a time period of 70 years. But, there is no definition for the word generation that means the life expectancy of human beings. Why can't you be honest and admit this? I don't even believe it's talking about a time period there, but, even if it was, the duration of a generation when the word is used to refer to a time period is about 30 to 40 years, which is common knowledge to everyone except you, apparently.

The parable is not about the definition of a generation. But the life expectancy of a specific generation at the time the fig tree leaves are tender.

When determining what "this generation" means you have to properly define the word generation, which you are not doing. That matters, Doug. It matters if you try to use a definition for the word generation that doesn't exist. It shows your dishonesty and willingness to manipulate scripture to make it say what you want it to say, which is a shameful thing to do.

I am the baby-boomer generation - i.e born to WWII parents, following WWII. Later, there were other generation's, which got labeled, such as X and Y.

Hello? The baby boomer generation ended long ago! This proves yet again that you have no idea what the word generation means when it refers to a time period. Just because you are still alive now doesn't mean the baby boomer generation is still active. You are so naive. The baby boomer generation was commonly thought to last from 1946 to 1964. A period of 19 years. Not 70 years! Again, you are trying to make up a definition for the word generation that doesn't exist! What is hard to understand about that? You won't even admit that after I've shown you this several times. That is foolish and shows that you only care about making scripture say what you want it to say.

The parable of the fig tree generation began in 1967. The life-expectancy of that generation ends in 2037.

Total nonsense! Show me something to prove that one definition of the word generation is "life expectancy". Can you do it, Doug? Why is it that you won't do that? Is it because you know there is no such definition for that word and you think you have the authority to create your own definitions of words?

And I have shown you, repeatedly the Matthew 24:34 says "This generation shall not pass". Which has to do with the life expectancy of a specific generation.

It's not referring to a time period, but the passing away of a type of people. The word generation has multiple defintions, one of which is a type of people. But, even if it referred to a time period it cannot be referring to a time period of 70 years because the word never refers to life expectancy but rather to a time period like what you referred to, such as the baby boomer generation which lasted for 19 years. No generation ever lasts for 70 years. That is ludicrous.

 

[Douggg]

You are trying to say that the word generation there refers to the life expectancy of humans and that's why you believe it refers to a time period of 70 years

No, I am saying that Jesus's return will be before the life expectancy of a specific generation is over.

Jesus was not giving a parable for the purpose of defining a generation. But how to know that His Return was near, and that all the things He spoke of in Matthew 24:15-31 would soon be fulfilled.

Do you see that word "fulfilled" in Matthew 24:34 ?

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, I am saying that Jesus's return will be before the life expectancy of a specific generation is over.

You are trying to say that "this generation" started in 1967 and will last for 70 years and you base that on Psalm 90:10 which has nothing to do with the duration of a generation, but rather has to do with the life span of human beings. So, again, you are trying to create a new definition for the word generation that doesn't exist in an effort to make scripture say what you want it to say. When the word generation is used in the sense of a time period, it is 30 to 40 years. This is common knowledge. The idea of a generation lasting for 70 years is comical and stupid.

Jesus was not giving a parable for the purpose of defining a generation. But how to know that His Return was near, and that all the things He spoke of in Matthew 24:15-31 would soon be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:15-21 was fulfilled in 70 AD, so you're just off base in many ways regarding the Olivet Discourse.

Do you see that word "fulfilled" in Matthew 24:34 ?

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

I'm not saying anything against what that verse is saying. My view is that "this generation" refers to a type of people, the Jews. One definition of the word generation is a type of people. Unlike you, I am actually using an existing definition of the word generation.

So, once all these things that Jesus talked about in verses 23-29 are fulfilled, then this generation will pass away and also heaven and earth will pass away, which is what Peter taught will happen at Christ's return as well.

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

[Douggg]

So, once all these things that Jesus talked about in verses 23-29 are fulfilled, then this generation will pass away and also heaven and earth will pass away, which is what Peter taught will happen at Christ's return as well.

Jesus did not just talk about Matthew 24:23-29, but also Matthew 24:30-31 - His return. Which was not fulfilled in the first century.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 24:15-21 was fulfilled in 70 AD, so you're just off base in many ways regarding the Olivet Discourse.

The abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, in Daniel 12:11-12, does not take place until the time of the end, Daniel 12:9, the preceding verse.

In Daniel 12:4, the time of the end is characterized by....

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The great tribulation in Matthew 24:15-21 is still future, and will be global in impact.

You are trying to say that "this generation" started in 1967 and will last for 70 years and you base that on Psalm 90:10 which has nothing to do with the duration of a generation, but rather has to do with the life span of human beings.

A generation in the bible is comprised of human beings.

King David was speaking about the life span of his generation of human beings. I have given you current life expectancy in several major countries in the world, which those numbers are still consistent with what King David said in Psalms 90:10.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus did not just talk about Matthew 24:23-29, but also Matthew 24:30-31 - His return. Which was not fulfilled in the first century.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

I did not say He returned in the first century. I'm not a preterist. I think of everything coming to an end basically right when He returns, so I didn't include those verses only for that reason. But, technically, yes, all will be fulfilled after He comes from heaven with His angels, gathers the elect and destroys His enemies.

The abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, in Daniel 12:11-12, does not take place until the time of the end, Daniel 12:9, the preceding verse.

In Daniel 12:4, the time of the end is characterized by....

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The great tribulation in Matthew 24:15-21 is still future, and will be global in impact.

Nope. No mention of any global tribulation in Matthew 24:15-21. You are once again trying to make scripture say what you want it to say. When Jesus referenced Daniel there, He was obviously referring to Daniel 9:26-27 since part of the Olivet Discourse refers to the destrution of the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (temple).

A generation in the bible is comprised of human beings.

It is never defined by the average human life span, so it can't possibly be of a duration of 70 years as you falsely believe regarding "this generation". Also, it can't be ignored that Jesus said "this generation" and not "that generation". It was a generation that existed at that time. But, the word was used to refer to a type of people. The Jews in this case. That is one of the definitions of that word, but the human life span is not. You stubbornly refuse to acknowledge this because of your desire to make scripture say whatever you want it to say.

King David was speaking about the life span of his generation of human beings. I have given you current life expectancy of several major countries in the world, which those numbers are still consistent with what King David said in Psalms 90:10.

Again, you are trying to create a new definition for the word generation. That is foolish. You continue to reveal your dishonesty and foolishness by doing that. Show me a definition of the word generation from any source which indicates that it means the life span of human beings. If you do that then I will accept what you're saying. Until then, I will continue letting you know that you are being dishonest and trying to make up a new definition for the word that doesn't exist.

 

[Douggg]

Nope. No mention of any global tribulation in Matthew 24:15-21.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The great tribulation will be global, because if not limited in duration - no flesh will survive.

 

[Douggg]

. Also, it can't be ignored that Jesus said "this generation" and not "that generation". It was a generation that existed at that time.

"This generation" is the parable of the fig tree generation. Not the generation at which time Jesus spoke - or else there would be no need for the parable of the fig tree.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The great tribulation will be global, because if not limited in duration - no flesh will survive.

Context is not something you ever think or care about. The context is no flesh in Judea since Jesus said those in Judea would need to flee.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"This generation" is the parable of the fig tree generation.

Jesus made no mention of "the fig tree generation". You continue to make things up in your imagination. You are impossible to take seriously.

Not the generation at which time Jesus spoke - or else there would be no need for the parable of the fig tree.

The parable related to how soon Christ's return would be and not to any "fig tree generation". Good grief. LOL. Unreal.

 

[Douggg]

Again, you are trying to create a new definition for the word generation. That is foolish. You continue to reveal your dishonesty and foolishness by doing that. Show me a definition of the word generation from any source which indicates that it means the life span of human beings. If you do that then I will accept what you're saying. Until then, I will continue letting you know that you are being dishonest and trying to make up a new definition for the word that doesn't exist.

Jesus was not giving a parable for the purpose of defining a generation. But how to know that His Return was near, and that all the things He spoke of in Matthew 24:15-31 would soon be fulfilled.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[Douggg]

I did not say He returned in the first century. I'm not a preterist. I think of everything coming to an end basically right when He returns, so I didn't include those verses only for that reason. But, technically, yes, all will be fulfilled after He comes from heaven with His angels, gathers the elect and destroys His enemies.

Jesus said it would be one specific generation that would not pass away until all the things he spoke of would be fulfilled.

You have broken all things up as being partially fulfilled in a first century generation, And then later, in the end times, a different generation which the remaining things will be fulfulled. i.e. you are claiming two generations - as opposed to Jesus saying one generation.