The mark of the Man/beast

[Stewardofthemystery]

That is the case with the sun. The first is natural (carnal) and it represents Satan as the god of this carnal world. The light the natural sun emits is a false truth. Carnally minded, spiritual blind and unconverted believers (babes) will be deceived by the natural sun and this is how the apostate church came into existence. Even the Elect will experience their Day of Evil in the apostate church because they will also begin their pathway to salvation as babes who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit. But after Christ pours out the Latter Rain and heals their spiritual blindness, the Elect will "see" the Abomination of Desolation which previously occurred within themselves. After they see the A of D, judgment will fall to complete their conversion.

All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on certain aspects of the pathway to salvation.

From what I have read of your posts, you seem to have a spiritual understanding of scripture. This is very rare on this forum.

From what I presented above, it this how you also understand the pathway to salvation that the Elect will travel?

Joe

Let me focus in on this point, because I don’t ever see in scripture where Satan is symbolic of the natural Sun. Both God and Christ are, but never Satan.

As I said earlier God created 2 great lights in the beginning. The greater light (clue) the Sun was to rule (clue) the Day, and was to rule the children of the day and of the Light. Jesus is symbolized as the Bright and morning Star, which is the Sun. God is shown as a Light that no man can approach, like the Sun. There is no shadow of turning with the Sun, as with God who has no dark side.

But the lessor light that was to rule the night is shown as the moon. The moon was to rule the night, and was to rule the children of darkness. Also the only light the moon gets is from the light of the Sun. And the moon has a shadow of turning, meaning the moon has a dark side.

It is clear in scripture that Satan/ evil is represented by darkness. And God/Christ/ Righteousness is represented as Light.

This is what Paul is showing here…

1 Thessalonians 5:4-7​

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King James Version​

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4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Now with that mind let’s look at this image…
Revelation 12:1
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The woman being clothed with the Sun represents the woman being clothed with the Sun of Righteousness, which is being clothed with Christs righteousness.

The moon under her feet represents the enemy being bruised under her feet.

This is what Paul was showing here…

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

So though God uses things in the natural world to symbolize spiritual truths. Those similitudes will line up and agree with the written words of God.

Peace

 

[FaithWillDo]

Let me focus in on this point, because I don’t ever see in scripture where Satan is symbolic of the natural Sun. Both God and Christ are, but never Satan.

As I said earlier God created 2 great lights in the beginning. The greater light (clue) the Sun was to rule (clue) the Day, and was to rule the children of the day and of the Light. Jesus is symbolized as the Bright and morning Star, which is the Sun. God is shown as a Light that no man can approach, like the Sun. There is no shadow of turning with the Sun, as with God who has no dark side.

But the lessor light that was to rule the night is shown as the moon. The moon was to rule the night, and was to rule the children of darkness. Also the only light the moon gets is from the light of the Sun. And the moon has a shadow of turning, meaning the moon has a dark side.

It is clear in scripture that Satan/ evil is represented by darkness. And God/Christ/ Righteousness is represented as Light.

This is what Paul is showing here…

1 Thessalonians 5:4-7​

​

King James Version​

​

​

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Now with that mind let’s look at this image…
Revelation 12:1
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The woman being clothed with the Sun represents the woman being clothed with the Sun of Righteousness, which is being clothed with Christs righteousness.

The moon under her feet represents the enemy being bruised under her feet.

This is what Paul was showing here…

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

So though God uses things in the natural world to symbolize spiritual truths. Those similitudes will line up and agree with the written words of God.

Peace

Dear Stewardofthemystery,
There is no doubt that the "sun" symbolizes Christ and there are many scriptures that clearly state this truth. But there some scriptures that also use the sun in a negative way. The "sun" used in those scriptures clearly doesn't represent Christ. So who does the "sun" in those scriptures represent?

Consider what you said earlier about how Satan masquerades as Christ and then consider this scripture below:

Jer 8:1 At that time, saith the LORD, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves: 2 And they shall spread them before the SUN, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.

The "sun" in this scripture cannot be Christ because the Jewish leadership is said to have worshipped, loved and served this "sun" which they did not do with Christ. A few verses later, it says this about the Jewish leadership:

Jer 8:5 Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.

The context with which the "sun" is being used is very negative. So who have the Jewish leaders served?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Now consider this verse:

Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the SUN ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

The "sun" is ashamed (darkened) when the Lord reigns in mount Zion. Again, this is a negative usage of the symbol "sun". It cannot represent Christ because He is not ashamed when He reigns. As the true Sun, Christ shines truth to those who are being judged because truth is what judges them.

And this verse:

Isa 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

The symbol of the sun is again being used in a negative way and clearly does not represent Christ.

Both of the last two scriptures above are descriptions of a portion of the conversion event and they both occur after the believer has received the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Spirit) and before judgment falls (Day of the Lord).

It is the Latter Rain of the Spirit that heals a believer's spiritual blindness so that they will not continue in their false beliefs - beliefs that came from the natural sun and moon. For that reason, the natural sun and moon are said to be darkened and are no longer shining their light upon the believer. The believer is now receiving their light from the true sun, Christ. In other words, the believer has come out of Satan's deceptions. That is why the natural sun and moon are darken during this portion of the conversion process.

Though scripture doesn't directly say that the natural sun is Satan, I can see no other option for what it can represent. And knowing that Satan masquerades as Christ, it is logical to believe that Satan also masquerades as the true sun.

This understanding of the "sun" would not be so important if it were not used so extensively in all the conversion scriptures. Scriptures like these:

Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them (the Elect who are reigning with Christ in the final age); the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Peter even quoted Joel 2:31 to show what had just happened to him and the other Jewish Elect on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

If you don't believe that the natural sun which is darkened during the conversion process represents Satan and his false light, who or what do you believe the darkening of the sun represents?

Joe

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Dear Stewardofthemystery,
There is no doubt that the "sun" symbolizes Christ and there are many scriptures that clearly state this truth. But there some scriptures that also use the sun in a negative way. The "sun" used in those scriptures clearly doesn't represent Christ. So who does the "sun" in those scriptures represent?

Consider what you said earlier about how Satan masquerades as Christ and then consider this scripture below:

Jer 8:1 At that time, saith the LORD, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves: 2 And they shall spread them before the SUN, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.

The "sun" in this scripture cannot be Christ because the Jewish leadership is said to have worshipped, loved and served this "sun" which they did not do with Christ. A few verses later, it says this about the Jewish leadership:

Jer 8:5 Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.

The context with which the "sun" is being used is very negative. So who have the Jewish leaders served?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Now consider this verse:

Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the SUN ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

The "sun" is ashamed (darkened) when the Lord reigns in mount Zion. Again, this is a negative usage of the symbol "sun". It cannot represent Christ because He is not ashamed when He reigns. As the true Sun, Christ shines truth to those who are being judged because truth is what judges them.

And this verse:

Isa 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

The symbol of the sun is again being used in a negative way and clearly does not represent Christ.

Both of the last two scriptures above are descriptions of a portion of the conversion event and they both occur after the believer has received the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Spirit) and before judgment falls (Day of the Lord).

It is the Latter Rain of the Spirit that heals a believer's spiritual blindness so that they will not continue in their false beliefs - beliefs that came from the natural sun and moon. For that reason, the natural sun and moon are said to be darkened and are no longer shining their light upon the believer. The believer is now receiving their light from the true sun, Christ. In other words, the believer has come out of Satan's deceptions. That is why the natural sun and moon are darken during this portion of the conversion process.

Though scripture doesn't directly say that the natural sun is Satan, I can see no other option for what it can represent. And knowing that Satan masquerades as Christ, it is logical to believe that Satan also masquerades as the true sun.

This understanding of the "sun" would not be so important if it were not used so extensively in all the conversion scriptures. Scriptures like these:

Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them (the Elect who are reigning with Christ in the final age); the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Peter even quoted Joel 2:31 to show what had just happened to him and the other Jewish Elect on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

If you don't believe that the natural sun which is darkened during the conversion process represents Satan and his false light, who or what do you believe the darkening of the sun represents?

Joe

What I would have to say to that is sometimes the sun is just talking about the big orange ball in the sky. Some people back then did worship the sun and the moon, so in each case you need to discern if it is talking about natural things or spiritual things.

If you remember when Jesus was on the cross the sun was literally darkened, so sometimes things are fulfilled in a natural way.

The important thing is to “rightly divide” the natural things from the spiritual things, as the Holy Spirit will reveal these to you.

Peace

 

[FaithWillDo]

What I would have to say to that is sometimes the sun is just talking about the big orange ball in the sky. Some people back then did worship the sun and the moon, so in each case you need to discern if it is talking about natural things or spiritual things.

If you remember when Jesus was on the cross the sun was literally darkened, so sometimes things are fulfilled in a natural way.

The important thing is to “rightly divide” the natural things from the spiritual things, as the Holy Spirit will reveal these to you.

Peace

Dear Stewardofthemystery,
The sun being darkened during the conversion process is strictly a spiritual event. In those scriptures, the "sun" is a spirit word (symbol) which has its own meaning. That meaning must be found by comparing its usage in other scriptures (as you agree). If the sun can only represent Christ, the verses make no sense. In fact, the sun would not be darkened just before judgment falls, it would be very bright just as this verse states:

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I believe from your other posts that you understand that the "man of sin" represents all apostate believers (the many and the few) who are indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ. The revealing of the man of sin is the same event as when the believer sees the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15). The believer who is in the process of being converted can see the man of sin/A of D because the Latter Rain of the Spirit healed their spiritual blindness which causes them to come out of Satan's deceptions. Thus, the natural sun is shown to be darkened. Then, from this knowledge of the truth, Christ will appear and judgment will begin. This is when the believer will see the true sun in all its brightness and glory.

This verse applies:

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword (truth of God's Word): and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

If a person doesn't have a detailed understanding of the pathway to salvation, along with a correct knowledge of the conversion process, the truth represented by the sun being darkened will remain concealed.

Since I haven't asked you yet, do you understand the concept of the Early and Latter Rains which is used in the farming analogy?

The Early Rain of the Spirit is what gives a person their faith in Christ and when they are presented the Gospel, they will make a confession of faith. However, the Early Rain is given in a small amount and will not convert the new believer. And since the new believer remains carnally minded and spiritually blind, they will fall for Satan's deceptions and become a man of sin (tare). This truth is taught by the parable of the Wheat and the Tares. At the time of the harvest, Christ will send the Latter Rain which will make the "wheat" (the Elect) ready for harvest. Before the harvest occurs, the tares will be burn (judged and destroyed from within the believer). The wheat is then gathered into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven).

This verse applies to the time of the harvest:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN; that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Here is the verse again with my comments in blue:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (Day of salvation for an Elect believer) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder (voice of Christ) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (see the man of sin and the A of D), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).

The Early Rain of the Spirit is synonymous with when a person becomes engaged to Christ in the marriage analogy. The Early Rain is what makes a person into a chaste virgin who must wait for the Bridegroom to return for the Marriage of the Lamb (salvation). Since all believers will "fall away" after receiving the Early Rain, the chaste virgin will not remain faithful to Christ. This truth is taught in the parable of the Ten Virgins when all ten virgins fall asleep (spiritually die) at night (time of blindness). Then, at midnight (deepest part of Satan's deceptions, Mat 24:14), the call of Elijah will be made to announce that the Bridegroom is returning so that the believer can make Christ's pathway straight. This is when the unfaithful Wise virgin will use the extra oil (the Latter Rain, restores her virginity) so that she can go out and meet the Bridegroom. After the Bridegroom appears, Christ will gather His virgin to heaven and the marriage will take place. The foolish virgins (the many called but not chosen) who likewise became unfaithful, were not given the extra oil and have to return to the city from which they came.

Are you familiar with any of what I presented?

Joe

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Dear Stewardofthemystery,
The sun being darkened during the conversion process is strictly a spiritual event. In those scriptures, the "sun" is a spirit word (symbol) which has its own meaning. That meaning must be found by comparing its usage in other scriptures (as you agree). If the sun can only represent Christ, the verses make no sense. In fact, the sun would not be darkened just before judgment falls, it would be very bright just as this verse states:

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I believe from your other posts that you understand that the "man of sin" represents all apostate believers (the many and the few) who are indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ. The revealing of the man of sin is the same event as when the believer sees the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15). The believer who is in the process of being converted can see the man of sin/A of D because the Latter Rain of the Spirit healed their spiritual blindness which causes them to come out of Satan's deceptions. Thus, the natural sun is shown to be darkened. Then, from this knowledge of the truth, Christ will appear and judgment will begin. This is when the believer will see the true sun in all its brightness and glory.

This verse applies:

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword (truth of God's Word): and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

If a person doesn't have a detailed understanding of the pathway to salvation, along with a correct knowledge of the conversion process, the truth represented by the sun being darkened will remain concealed.

Since I haven't asked you yet, do you understand the concept of the Early and Latter Rains which is used in the farming analogy?

The Early Rain of the Spirit is what gives a person their faith in Christ and when they are presented the Gospel, they will make a confession of faith. However, the Early Rain is given in a small amount and will not convert the new believer. And since the new believer remains carnally minded and spiritually blind, they will fall for Satan's deceptions and become a man of sin (tare). This truth is taught by the parable of the Wheat and the Tares. At the time of the harvest, Christ will send the Latter Rain which will make the "wheat" (the Elect) ready for harvest. Before the harvest occurs, the tares will be burn (judged and destroyed from within the believer). The wheat is then gathered into the barn (Kingdom of Heaven).

This verse applies to the time of the harvest:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN; that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Here is the verse again with my comments in blue:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (Day of salvation for an Elect believer) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder (voice of Christ) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (see the man of sin and the A of D), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).

The Early Rain of the Spirit is synonymous with when a person becomes engaged to Christ in the marriage analogy. The Early Rain is what makes a person into a chaste virgin who must wait for the Bridegroom to return for the Marriage of the Lamb (salvation). Since all believers will "fall away" after receiving the Early Rain, the chaste virgin will not remain faithful to Christ. This truth is taught in the parable of the Ten Virgins when all ten virgins fall asleep (spiritually die) at night (time of blindness). Then, at midnight (deepest part of Satan's deceptions, Mat 24:14), the call of Elijah will be made to announce that the Bridegroom is returning so that the believer can make Christ's pathway straight. This is when the unfaithful Wise virgin will use the extra oil (the Latter Rain, restores her virginity) so that she can go out and meet the Bridegroom. After the Bridegroom appears, Christ will gather His virgin to heaven and the marriage will take place. The foolish virgins (the many called but not chosen) who likewise became unfaithful, were not given the extra oil and have to return to the city from which they came.

Are you familiar with any of what I presented?

Joe

I’ve seen some who have a tendency to over spiritualize every thing, as not everything written is a similitude.

The point I was trying to make about the Sun being a similitude of Christ, and the Light. And the moon being a similitude of Satan, and darkness, is that we ought not confuse the 2.

If we say the darkness is symbolized as the light, and light is symbolized as darkness, then we confuse what the Spirit is signifying in the similitude.

It could lead to someone calling the Light darkness, and calling darkness the Light.

But again your interpretations of the similitude, proverb, parable, needs to be supported and confirmed by the words of God.

God’s Word and Spirit are His 2 witnesses and they will agree on the proper interpretation.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I’ve seen some who have a tendency to over spiritualize every thing, as not everything written is a similitude.

The point I was trying to make about the Sun being a similitude of Christ, and the Light. And the moon being a similitude of Satan, and darkness, is that we ought not confuse the 2.

If we say the darkness is symbolized as the light, and light is symbolized as darkness, then we confuse what the Spirit is signifying in the similitude.

It could lead to someone calling the Light darkness, and calling darkness the Light.

But again your interpretations of the similitude, proverb, parable, needs to be supported and confirmed by the words of God.

God’s Word and Spirit are His 2 witnesses and they will agree on the proper interpretation.

Dear Stewardofthemystery,
All the teachings of Christ under the New Covenant are spiritual. Those teachings must be applied within a person and not out into the world. To understand those teachings, Christ must heal a person's spiritual blindness.

The Old Covenant is different. Its teachings are outward and physical. The carnal mind of mankind has no trouble understanding them.

We must rightly divide the Word by the two covenants.

Remember, the natural comes first (Old Covenant) and then comes the spiritual (New Covenant).

Under the Old Covenant, the laws are written on tablets of stone. Under the New Covenant, the laws are written in man's heart.

I'll try one more time to express my understanding of the spirit words "sun" and "moon". I'll begin with the scripture below:

Isa 60:17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness. 18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. 19 The sun (Satan/natural) shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon (natural) give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20 Thy sun (Christ/spiritual) shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon (spiritual) withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

In the verses above, there are TWO different suns and TWO different moons mentioned. Do you agree?

The first sun and first moon represent the natural which always comes first. The natural sun is Satan and it gives light to his world. Remember, Satan is the god of this world - so he is the greater light when compared with the light from the moon. Plus, the light that the natural moon gives off is a reflection of the natural sun.

The natural moon represents mankind's carnal nature/wicked heart. It is mankind's carnal nature which (to a lesser degree) gives false light to the mind of man. It is this false light from the moon that makes mankind's mind carnal. The natural moon rules the night because it is mankind's carnal nature that makes mankind spiritually blind. Night/darkness are spirit words which represents spiritual blindness.

Here is how to understand Gen 1:16:

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light (Satan) to rule the day, and the lesser light (carnal nature) to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The spiritual sun and moon come second. The spiritual sun is Christ who gives light only to the children of God. The spiritual moon (also called the new moon) is the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit that the children of God have.

The spiritual sun and moon do not give light to this world because carnal mankind who dwell on the earth are spiritually blind and cannot see this light. The spiritual sun and moon only provide light to the converted Elect who dwell in the Kingdom of Heaven. They no longer dwell on the earth and as a result, they no longer receive light from the natural sun and moon.

The many scriptures that teach about conversion show the transition from receiving light from the natural sun and moon to receiving light from the spiritual sun and moon. In the verses that teach the conversion process, the natural sun and moon are always shown to be darkened because the newly born again believer has been gather up to heaven and is now receiving their light from the spiritual sun and moon.

By believing that only Christ represents the sun, you are ignoring the concept of "first comes the natural, then comes the spiritual". When the sun and moon are used in the scriptures that teach the conversion process, your understanding of them does not work and shows its error.

I make these comments for your benefit and with the love of Christ.

You didn't answer my question concerning the pathway to salvation which is taught by the farming and marriage analogies. If you don't want to answer, that is fine.

Joe

 

[PGS11]

We all have many numbers already tied to our Identity and we cannot do anything unless we have these numbers from driving to health care including taxes.You can't work in my country without a SIN number the Government always wants its cut.That would make the Government the beast they are just waiting for their leader who will come soon somewhere in the world and they will all bow down..

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Dear Stewardofthemystery,
All the teachings of Christ under the New Covenant are spiritual. Those teachings must be applied within a person and not out into the world. To understand those teachings, Christ must heal a person's spiritual blindness.

The Old Covenant is different. Its teachings are outward and physical. The carnal mind of mankind has no trouble understanding them.

We must rightly divide the Word by the two covenants.

Remember, the natural comes first (Old Covenant) and then comes the spiritual (New Covenant).

Under the Old Covenant, the laws are written on tablets of stone. Under the New Covenant, the laws are written in man's heart.

I disagree because there is a lot of types and shadows in the OT, and the law of God. That is why Paul said the law is spiritual, and asked his readers if they could “hear the Law”. A lot of people don’t understand that the law is also prophecy, just as Jesus said all the law and prophets shall be fulfilled.

I'll try one more time to express my understanding of the spirit words "sun" and "moon". I'll begin with the scripture below:

Isa 60:17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness. 18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. 19 The sun (Satan/natural) shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon (natural) give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20 Thy sun (Christ/spiritual) shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon (spiritual) withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

In the verses above, there are TWO different suns and TWO different moons mentioned. Do you agree?

I don’t agree with you trying to inject Satan in there as being the natural sun.

The first sun and first moon represent the natural which always comes first. The natural sun is Satan and it gives light to his world. Remember, Satan is the god of this world - so he is the greater light when compared with the light from the moon. Plus, the light that the natural moon gives off is a reflection of the natural sun.

Satan is not symbolized as the Sun or the light of the world in scripture. I disagree.

Here is how to understand Gen 1:16:

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light (Satan) to rule the day, and the lesser light (carnal nature) to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The spiritual sun and moon come second. The spiritual sun is Christ who gives light only to the children of God. The spiritual moon (also called the new moon) is the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit that the children of God have.

The spiritual sun and moon do not give light to this world because carnal mankind who dwell on the earth are spiritually blind and cannot see this light. The spiritual sun and moon only provide light to the converted Elect who dwell in the Kingdom of Heaven. They no longer dwell on the earth and as a result, they no longer receive light from the natural sun and moon.

The many scriptures that teach about conversion show the transition from receiving light from the natural sun and moon to receiving light from the spiritual sun and moon. In the verses that teach the conversion process, the natural sun and moon are always shown to be darkened because the newly born again believer has been gather up to heaven and is now receiving their light from the spiritual sun and moon.

By believing that only Christ represents the sun, you are ignoring the concept of "first comes the natural, then comes the spiritual". When the sun and moon are used in the scriptures that teach the conversion process, your understanding of them does not work and shows its error.

I make these comments for your benefit and with the love of Christ.

You didn't answer my question concerning the pathway to salvation which is taught by the farming and marriage analogies. If you don't want to answer, that is fine.

Joe

Again I have to disagree, Satan is not the greater light. There is no greater light than God/Christ.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I disagree because there is a lot of types and shadows in the OT, and the law of God. That is why Paul said the law is spiritual, and asked his readers if they could “hear the Law”. A lot of people don’t understand that the law is also prophecy, just as Jesus said all the law and prophets shall be fulfilled.

I don’t agree with you trying to inject Satan in there as being the natural sun.

Satan is not symbolized as the Sun or the light of the world in scripture. I disagree.

Again I have to disagree, Satan is not the greater light. There is no greater light than God/Christ.

Dear Stewardofthemystery,
You said:
I disagree because there is a lot of types and shadows in the OT, and the law of God. That is why Paul said the law is spiritual, and asked his readers if they could “hear the Law”. A lot of people don’t understand that the law is also prophecy, just as Jesus said all the law and prophets shall be fulfilled.

Yes, ALL the things that happened to the OT fathers are "types" which are spiritually fulfilled under the New Covenant. I never said differently.

What I said was the Old Covenant of Law that is written on tablets of stone is for carnal mankind and can be understood by them. It does not take spiritual understanding to understand the Old Covenant of Law. And you are right, there are also types and shadows contained in the Law, in fact, the whole Law itself is spiritually fulfilled under the New Covenant.

The law of honoring the Sabbath Day is a perfect example of a law that foreshadows its spiritual fulfillment. The Sabbath Day law is spiritually fulfilled when a believer is converted and enters into the rest of Christ.

Under the Old Covenant of Law, mankind is responsible for all the works required by the Law in order to make oneself acceptable (righteous) before God.

Under the New Covenant, Christ does all (100%) of the works that are required to make mankind righteous before God. Mankind contributes nothing (no works) because it is Christ who changes a person's heart and mind to "will and do of His good pleasure" (Phi 2:13). The good works that a believer does come from Christ. He is the one who causes them to be performed. So in this sense, mankind spiritually honors the Sabbath Day when they rest from all their works 24/7.

When a believer mixes their own works with faith (trust in Christ to do all the works), they are committing the one and only sin that leads to death (loss of salvation). When they do this, they have exited the New Covenant and have fallen back to trying to be acceptable by their own works. In other words, they are mixing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant. It is with this sin that Satan kills the saints and builds his counterfeit church (the apostate church).

You said:
I don’t agree with you trying to inject Satan in there as being the natural sun.

2Cor 11:2 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Satan is not the true sun just as the lies that he teaches is not the truth of God. Satan is a deceiver who deceives the whole world. The natural sun is a symbol that helps teach this truth.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

For that reason, the light that the natural sun (Satan) gives off is darkened after a believer's spiritual blindness is healed. They no longer receive their beliefs from Satan - they now receive their beliefs from Christ, the true sun.

You said:
Again I have to disagree, Satan is not the greater light. There is no greater light than God/Christ.

Here is the verse again:

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light (Satan) to rule the day, and the lesser light (carnal nature) to rule the night: he made the stars also.

You are adding to the verse something that is not there. The verse says nothing about Satan's light be greater than the light of Christ. The verse is only comparing the light from the sun with the light from the moon. If you don't understand what the moon symbolizes, then you are missing a key teaching on how Satan deceives mankind.

The moon symbolizes mankind's carnal nature and it receives its light from the natural sun (Satan). In other words, it is through mankind's carnal nature that Satan deceives the world.

Do you understand that Eve is a symbol for mankind's spiritual nature contained in our "marred" spirit? The flaw in mankind's spirit is that it is weak. Because it is weak, the flesh has the ability to spiritually govern mankind. This is why mankind has a "carnal" spiritual nature.

Since Eve is a symbol for mankind's carnal nature, Satan came to her in the Garden of Eden to deceive her. It is through mankind's carnal nature that Satan deceives mankind. And since Satan's lies were pleasing to Eve's carnality, she quickly accepted them and sinned.

Eve even displayed her carnality before she sinned:

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food (LUST OF THE FLESH), and that it was pleasant to the eyes (LUST OF THE EYES), and a tree to be desired to make one wise (PRIDE OF LIFE), she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Since the natural moon is a symbol for mankind's carnal nature, it is easy to see why Gen 1:16 says that the light from the natural sun (Satan) is greater than the light from the natural moon (mankind's carnal nature). The moon merely reflects the deceptions and lies of Satan.

Joe

 

[Zao is life]

In the Old Testament this lack of wisdom into understanding Gods words was shown as “brutish” or beast like.

Psalm 49:10
For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.

Psalm 92:6
A brutish man knoweth not; neither doth a fool understand this.

Psalm 94:8
Understand, ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise?

Proverbs 12:1
Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.

Proverbs 30:2
Surely I am more brutish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man.

Isaiah 19:11
Surely the princes of Zoan are fools, the counsel of the wise counsellors of Pharaoh is become brutish: how say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings?

Jeremiah 10:8
But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
Jeremiah 10:14
Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

Jeremiah 10:21
For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the Lord: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.

Jeremiah 51:17
Every man is brutish by his knowledge; every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

I tried to take most of what is written in by speed-reading.

This looks like conjecture to me, putting things together and using those things to explain the meaning of other things that are only related by sin, but without reading every sentence and quote I can't say for sure.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I tried to take most of what is written in by speed-reading.

This looks like conjecture to me, putting things together and using those things to explain the meaning of other things that are only related by sin, but without reading every sentence and quote I can't say for sure.

I can tell you I received understanding in this mystery from the Lord when I was anointed of the Holy Spirit, so don’t be quick to dismiss it. I provided plenty of scripture to prove all my points.

What hinders people from receiving the Testimony of the Spirit is the carnal mind.

Peace

 

[Zao is life]

What hinders people from receiving the Testimony of the Spirit is the carnal mind.

That's what people ALWAYS say when they claim to have received their understanding from the Holy Spirit - including many of those who completely disagree with what you have come up with after putting things together that you believe belong together.

The carnal mouth betrays the carnal mind when it utters the words you just uttered above.

Yet what you say and the interpretations you have offered

are not written.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

That's what people ALWAYS say when they claim to have received their understanding from the Holy Spirit - including many of those who completely disagree with what you have come up with after putting things together that you believe belong together.

The carnal mouth betrays the carnal mind when it utters the words you just uttered above.

Yet what you say and the interpretations you have offered

are not written.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

To be carnally mind is Death.

 

[Zao is life]

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

To be carnally mind is Death.

Therefore your words testify against you. Because you are claiming to speak for God. If you were not carnal you would not have exalted yourself like that.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Therefore your words testify against you. Because you are claiming to speak for God. If you were not carnal you would not have exalted yourself like that.

Believe what you will

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am going to spend some time explaining by scripture what the mark, name, and number of the man/beast truly is.


It is important that one use scripture to confirm all these truths, as I will do in my following posts. First let’s explore what the mark of the man/beast is by first looking at the color red shown in scripture.
In Revelation 12:3 we read “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.”

The great red dragon in this verse is a symbolism of Satan, the Devil, or the Old Serpent as he has many names. But you ever wonder why he is shown as red? I believe it is because God gave us a clue so we might better understand the nature of the man/beast, which by the way is also shown as red (or scarlet).
Revelation 17:3; “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.”

Again the color is a clue to figure out the nature and mark of the beast, which is also the nature found in the firstborn man, Adam
Adam being the first man to have iniquity found in him is also a sign of this very thing; just as the name of Adam means earthly, red.

To confirm this sign we are also given a clue in Esau, who was also the firstborn. Genesis 25:25; “And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.”

Who also by the way sold his birthright and inheritance over some red pottage, which is symbolic of sin.

Genesis 25:30; “And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.” ( Edom means red, earthly, of blood.)

More insight into the sign of the firstborn Esau is also shown here in Romans 9:13; “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”

Why was this statement made by the Lord? If you back up to verse 8 we see the meaning in Romans 9:8; “That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

So now we begin to see the firstborn nature of man is flesh, or carnally minded like “natural brute beasts.”

Jesus confirms this truth here in John 3:6; “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

If you look up the Bible usage of that word "flesh" in the above, you will find that it is the sensuous nature of man, or the "animal nature" working in man. The word flesh also denotes the earthly nature of man apart from the divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God.

This speaks of the enmity between the flesh and the Spirit of God. And is also shown here 1 Corinthians 15:46; “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.”

The difference between the flesh (carnally minded man) and the Spirit (spiritually minded man) also shows the difference between the nature of the serpents seed and the womans seed; and is also why the firstborn man, like as shown in Ishmael, persecutes those who are born again of God’s Holy Spirit.

Galatians 4:29; “But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.”

Even as Cain the firstborn son of Adam killed his righteous brother Abel and then received a “mark.”

This is the first example of “sin”being symbolized as “a mark” from God.

In this we also see the firstborn nature of man has a different spirit working in him than that of God’s heavenly Spirit.

Just as the Lord said in Genesis 6:3 “My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:”

This spirit in the firstborn carnally minded man is earthly, lustful and is also of this world; which is also the same spirit of the Red Dragon, or prince of this world.

We see the red dragon empowers the scarlet beast which comes up out of the sea. Revelation 13:2; “And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”

Revelation 13:4; “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”

If we worship our heavenly Father and His Lamb in the Spirit of Truth and in righteousness; then how do you suppose the firstborn man worships the red dragon and the scarlet beast? It is by serving sin.

It would be the opposite of righteousness because darkness is the opposite of Light, the lie is the opposite of the Truth, Death is the opposite of Life, and sin is the opposite of righteousness. So by serving sin, all of mankind worships the red Dragon and scarlet colored beast.

And perhaps in better understanding these spiritual things, it will also help one to understand “the mark” of the beast, and also the image of the beast they truly worship through the lusts of their own flesh.

So some still might be wondering what is that red mark shown in the firstborn man of sin, and the red dragon, and the scarlet colored beast?
The answer is found right here in Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”

Here is more proof that “sin is called a mark” in scripture....
It is written in Job 7:20 “I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?”

Job 10:14 “If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity."


Psalm 130:3 If thou, Lord, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?

And it is written in Jeremiah 2:22"For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, yet thine iniquity is marked before me,saith the Lord."

We are told by God, that it is sin that separates us from His presence.

I am going to post other posts on the name, number, and image of the man/beast as there is a lot of scripture to confirm these message.


So please bear with me.

I would ask you one question. Whom did you study under to learn these things?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I would ask you one question. Whom did you study under to learn these things?

I was taught by Christ via the Holy Spirit, the same way all of Gods anointed priesthood are taught.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I was taught by Christ via the Holy Spirit, the same way all of Gods anointed priesthood are taught.

So all the others who disagree with you and say they also were taught by Jesus via the Holy Spirit are wrong? Just like they say you are wrong? How can you prove your reinterpretations and new truths are in reality from god? All sCriptures have been validated by the centuries and the body of christ.

The Apostles were appointed by Jesus. Paul was appointed by Jesus and confirmed by the church.

If you claim to be a new teacher expressing revised truths, who has confirmed your4 gift in the church? All teachers since the Apostles have been confirmed by those who have gon eon before. Their calling and gifts were given them by God but confirmed and validated by the elders who were established to oversee the welfare of the church.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

So all the others who disagree with you and say they also were taught by Jesus via the Holy Spirit are wrong? Just like they say you are wrong? How can you prove your reinterpretations and new truths are in reality from god? All sCriptures have been validated by the centuries and the body of christ.

The Apostles were appointed by Jesus. Paul was appointed by Jesus and confirmed by the church.

If you claim to be a new teacher expressing revised truths, who has confirmed your4 gift in the church? All teachers since the Apostles have been confirmed by those who have gon eon before. Their calling and gifts were given them by God but confirmed and validated by the elders who were established to oversee the welfare of the church.

I believe the prophets and apostles understood this mystery, thats why I quoted from their writings. What I have written is just an understanding into what they had already written. It has just been hidden for thousands of years from the minds of men.

It was a sweet blessing to receive the understanding in it by the Holy Spirit, but it has been a bitter burden to share because no one is able to receive it.

 

[wooddog]

In Genesis 1:24-31 the Lord brought forth from the earth both man and beast on the sixth day.


Hebrew letters have a numerical value, and in Hebrew gematria the sixth day has a numerical value of 666….. שִׁשִּׁי = sixth= 610 יוֹם= day=56 total= 666

Also the Lord said in Genesis 6:3 “And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”

The number of a man’s days in that verse, or hundred twenty years, and in Hebrew gematria is also = 666

מֵאָה = hundred=46 and עֶשְׂרִים =twenty = 620 for a total of 666

"DCLXVI" , folks will pass this around tonight and not think twice about it. A quarter of the worlds population will try to make a few more tomorrow.