OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[GodsGrace]

Sounds good. Go answer all of my threads where Scripture disproves your Gnosticism--this thread has its point that OSAS is Gnostic and wasn't held by the early church and was fought against by the early church for hundreds of years.

Actually GP, you're 100% right.
OSAS is a gnostic belief that was not accepted by the early church - of course....
because Jesus taught the Apostles and the Apostles taught others, and those OTHERS
did NOT believe in OSAS because it is not biblical - it is not taught in the NT.

This teaching entered into the church with the Reformation.
It was not known before then.

What IS taught is that we can be secure in our salvation on the CONDITION that we CONTINUE to believe in Jesus
and obey Him as our Lord and Savior. I say CONDITION because the NT has a lot of "IFs" in it and IF is a conditional word.
IF we do something....
God will do something...
IF we do not....
then God will not.

Problem as I see it ---
many want Jesus as their Savior....
but they don't want Him as their Lord.

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father ...

If we do not do the will of the Father, salvation can, indeed, be forfeited.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

This teaching entered into the church with the Reformation.

This is true.

The reformers failed to simply go back to God's Word... fatal mistake for them!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually GP, you're 100% right.
OSAS is a gnostic belief that was not accepted by the early church - of course....
because Jesus taught the Apostles and the Apostles taught others, and those OTHERS
did NOT believe in OSAS because it is not biblical - it is not taught in the NT.

This teaching entered into the church with the Reformation.
It was not known before then.

What IS taught is that we can be secure in our salvation on the CONDITION that we CONTINUE to believe in Jesus
and obey Him as our Lord and Savior. I say CONDITION because the NT has a lot of "IFs" in it and IF is a conditional word.
IF we do something....
God will do something...
IF we do not....
then God will not.

Problem as I see it ---
many want Jesus as their Savior....
but they don't want Him as their Lord.

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father ...

If we do not do the will of the Father, salvation can, indeed, be forfeited.

Not true

Eternal security (or what you call OSAS) was indeed taught in the early church (not the church of rome, but the church of The bible. namely the new testament)

Salvation is a gift. A gift can not be earned

It is by Grace, Grace can not be earned

It is paid in full. we can not pay for it ourself

It is By Gods love and mercy he saved us, not by the good deeds we have done, are doing or will do

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is true.

The reformers failed to simply go back to God's Word... fatal mistake for them!

When will yu go back to Gods word?

Fatal mistake for you is to attack them, when you will not do what you demand they do, which also makes you a hypocrite

 

[Dan Clarkston]

When will yu go back to Gods word?

Fatal mistake for you is to attack them, when you will not do what you demand they do, which also makes you a hypocrite

Correction is not attacking. I wouldn't expect you to understand

Those that follow the OSAS heresy are blinded by their refusal to accept the whole counsel of God.

In other words, they be cherry pickers!

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Eternal security (or what you call OSAS) was indeed taught in the early church

The earliest statement regarding “once saved always saved” comes from Augustine (A.D. 354-430), so this is where the false doctrine of OSAS got started.

Numerous warnings in the New Testament written to the church concerning the possibility of losing salvation

It's always hilarious to see the OSAS people try to explain these away as they come up with cute stories and claims about why we should not accept all that the Lord teaches in the New Testament.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Correction is not attacking. I wouldn't expect you to understand

In order to correct. You need to have the truth.

Those that follow the OSAS heresy are blinded by their refusal to accept the whole counsel of God.

In other words, they be cherry pickers!

lol. Actually those who trust in God to keep his promise and understand that he who began a good work WILL complete it until the day of christ. has taken the whole council

You who do not have faith in God. have not.

Thats one thing about talking to you. You keep proving me right in what I think about you and your lack of faith in God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The earliest statement regarding “once saved always saved” comes from Augustine (A.D. 354-430), so this is where the false doctrine of OSAS got started.

Numerous warnings in the New Testament written to the church concerning the possibility of losing salvation

It's always hilarious to see the OSAS people try to explain these away as they come up with cute stories and claims about why we should not accept all that the Lord teaches in the New Testament. View attachment 48648

Actually the earliest statement came from Christ in the book oh John.

But that you for showing me what I already knew, that the roman church kept the truth of God from people until the reformation allwed freedom for many to come to God without being killed ot branded as heretics (or killed)

 

[Dan Clarkston]

In order to correct. You need to have the truth.

In order to receive correction you'd have to have the Holy Spirit.

You keep proving me right in what I think about you and your lack of faith in God

That's what the cherry pickers always say... as they reject all of what the Lord says due their indoctrination by the false teachers in the finer ways of cherry picking.

Actually the earliest statement came from Christ in the book oh John.

And then... Jesus proved that OSAS is not what He is teaching as the false teachers claim:

John 15:1,2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Those that Turned Away from the Lord
(*They were born again... turned away from the Lord, and became UN-saved)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when THEY will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And THEY shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. *By addressing this to “BRETHREN” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In order to receive correction you'd have to have the Holy Spirit.

I agree

But you can not say you have the holy spirit if you do not even understand the word

That's what the cherry pickers always say... as they reject all of what the Lord says due their indoctrination by the false teachers in the finer ways of cherry picking.

Like what you are doing?

Look you can not even discuss the word. you just attack.

And then... Jesus proved that OSAS is not what He is teaching as the false teachers claim:

John 15:1,2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. John 15:5 IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

John 15 is about producing fruit. Not about being saved.

You have jesus contradicting himself. and you are not giving anyone any hope. All you give them is look to self. save yourself.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Yep. We can.

It is because it is God who power. why do you not have faiht in God?

Those that Turned Away from the Lord
(*They were born again... turned away from the Lord, and became UN-saved)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when THEY will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And THEY shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. *By addressing this to “BRETHREN” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

More proof you have absolutely no faith in God

Your faith is in self my friend. Repent, turn to God. He will save you. He will bring you into his arms, He will make you his child. and he will never leave nor forsake you.


or continue on your path of unbelief,, But I warn you, when you go to God and boast of all your works, you will not like his answer

 

[Dan Clarkston]

But you can not say you have the holy spirit if you do not even understand the word

You prove you are without the Spirit of the Lord by the false doctrine that you espouse from yer house.

Heresy is on God's list of those that do these things will not inherit His Kingdom.

You have been informed!

More proof you have absolutely no faith in God

Actually it's proof that you are a cherry picker who rejects what the Lord says in favor of just a few happy verses your handlers have indoctrinated you to adhere to while throwing the rest of God's Word in the trash

This ends badly, but some folks have to learn the hard way... you are without excuse

 

[GodsGrace]

Not true

Eternal security (or what you call OSAS) was indeed taught in the early church (not the church of rome, but the church of The bible. namely the new testament)

Salvation is a gift. A gift can not be earned

It is by Grace, Grace can not be earned

It is paid in full. we can not pay for it ourself

It is By Gods love and mercy he saved us, not by the good deeds we have done, are doing or will do

Well EG
Those that were taught by the Apostles
BY THE APOSTLES
do not agree with you.

The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. . . . He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works.
Barnabas (c. 70-130), 1.148, 149.

We are justified by our works and not our words.
Clement of Rome (c. 96), 1.13.

. . . that He may both hear you, and perceive by your works that you are indeed the members of His Son. . . . Faith cannot do the works of unbelief, nor unbelief the works of faith. . . . The tree is made manifest by its fruit. So those who profess themselves to be Christians will be recognized by their conduct. . . . It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not be one.
Ignatius (c. 105), 1.51-55.

Therefore, brethren, by doing the will of the Father, and keeping the flesh holy, and observing the commandments of the Lord, we will obtain eternal life.
Second Clement (c. 150), 7.519.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not true

Eternal security (or what you call OSAS) was indeed taught in the early church (not the church of rome, but the church of The bible. namely the new testament)

Salvation is a gift. A gift can not be earned

It is by Grace, Grace can not be earned

It is paid in full. we can not pay for it ourself

It is By Gods love and mercy he saved us, not by the good deeds we have done, are doing or will do

EG
Eternal Security is different than OSAS.

Here's the difference:

Eternal Security is biblical.
It means that we can be secure in our eternal salvation for as long
as we remain in Christ and follow HIs commandments and allow Him
to be our Lord.

Even the ECFs, which the OP of this is referring to, believed in eternal security.

OSAS means that no matter what a person does, or how he lives, he will
always be saved because he believed in Jesus at some point in his life.
This is not a biblical teaching, nor did the ECFs believe in this.

If you're not familiar with the ECFs,,,,you should familiarize yourself with them.
They were taught by the Apostles and have a lot to say.
Some even almost made into the NT!

And the ones THEY taught are the very same persons that compiled the NT and made it canon.

So, yes, it's good to know what they were taught by John and Peter, etc.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You prove you are without the Spirit of the Lord by the false doctrine that you espouse from yer house.

Heresy is on God's list of those that do these things will not inherit His Kingdom.

You have been informed!




Actually it's proof that you are a cherry picker who rejects what the Lord says in favor of just a few happy verses your handlers have indoctrinated you to adhere to while throwing the rest of God's Word in the trash

This ends badly, but some folks have to learn the hard way... you are without excuse

View attachment 48659

Sorry to the room for feeding the troll.

Forgive me

 

[Dan Clarkston]

we can be secure in our eternal salvation for as long
as we remain in Christ and follow HIs commandments and allow Him
to be our Lord.

That's where they fall in to error as they claim if someone turns away from the Lord and backslides back in to living in sin (walking after the flesh) they are still saved. This is the false "security in sin" doctrine

I've talked to people who claim to be baptist that say they can get drunk, have sex outside of marriage, cuss like a sailor, lie, cheat, etc, etc and they are still in right standing with the Lord and will go to Heaven. They be mistaken!

Now, many churches are teaching another trick of the devil claiming all our future sins are automatically forgiven even before the sins are even committed and there's no need to confess out sins to the Lord and repent.

They don't understand that satan is the original democrat who lies and deceives and makes it all sound go good so these folks with itching ears are definitely getting their ears tickled in these last days.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's where they fall in to error as they claim if someone turns away from the Lord and backslides back in to living in sin (walking after the flesh) they are still saved. This is the false "security in sin" doctrine

I've talked to people who claim to be baptist that say they can get drunk, have sex outside of marriage, cuss like a sailor, lie, cheat, etc, etc and they are still in right standing with the Lord and will go to Heaven. They be mistaken!

Now, many churches are teaching another trick of the devil claiming all our future sins are automatically forgiven even before the sins are even committed and there's no need to confess out sins to the Lord and repent.

They don't understand that satan is the original democrat who lies and deceives and makes it all sound go good so these folks with itching ears are definitely getting their ears tickled in these last days.

You're right DC.
There's a member right here on this Forum (not on this thread) that believes exactly what you've stated and claims a person could LIVE IN SIN and still be saved.

Nowhere does the NT teach this...but it sounds sooooo good.

Ditto for asking forgiveness of sins. John spoke about this fully in 1 John the first and second an third chapters....

Another problem we're experiencing in Christianity is the idea that our works are like dirty rags.
All Jesus spoke about was doing good works.

So, hang tight and keep reminding everyone that Jesus is not only our Savior
but also our Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well EG
Those that were taught by the Apostles
BY THE APOSTLES
do not agree with you.

The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. . . . He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works.
Barnabas (c. 70-130), 1.148, 149.

We are justified by our works and not our words.
Clement of Rome (c. 96), 1.13.

. . . that He may both hear you, and perceive by your works that you are indeed the members of His Son. . . . Faith cannot do the works of unbelief, nor unbelief the works of faith. . . . The tree is made manifest by its fruit. So those who profess themselves to be Christians will be recognized by their conduct. . . . It is better for a man to be silent and be [a Christian], than to talk and not be one.
Ignatius (c. 105), 1.51-55.

Therefore, brethren, by doing the will of the Father, and keeping the flesh holy, and observing the commandments of the Lord, we will obtain eternal life.
Second Clement (c. 150), 7.519.

well sis

I do not follow men, I follow the word of God

and I will take what the inspired word of God says over any man.

I believe what jesus said,

I have faith and confidence he will keep his word.

I have asked numerous times why people do not have Faith that he who began a good work will complete that work.. as Paul said we all can be confident in that fact.

And as of yet have not recieved an answer.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG
Eternal Security is different than OSAS.

Not really

Eternal security means we are secure for eternity.

OSAS means once we are saved, we are secure in that salvation, hence we are always saved.

Now the calvinist view. i agree, it is different, and since to my understanding it is a calvinist term, so I will give you that.. But in reality, they are the same

Here's the difference:

Eternal Security is biblical.
It means that we can be secure in our eternal salvation for as long
as we remain in Christ and follow HIs commandments and allow Him
to be our Lord.

Your not secure in your salvation if this is what you think, You are not secure in God. But in your ability.

I am sorry. But if I have to depend on myself to do something, I am most Definately not secure, and that is what you are asking me to do. To depend on myself being able to do what you say must be done.

Thank you but I will pass

Even the ECFs, which the OP of this is referring to, believed in eternal security.

Not sure what this means

OSAS means that no matter what a person does, or how he lives, he will
always be saved because he believed in Jesus at some point in his life.

If this is what OSAS Believes (which it is not) then I would agree with you.

merely believing in jesus is not enough, even demons believe yet tremble

I spoke of this yesterday when i spoke of trut faith, vs mere belief

Also. No matter what he does? Again i spoke on this yesterday (you did not respond by the way)

This is not a biblical teaching, nor did the ECFs believe in this.

Who are the ECF’S

If you're not familiar with the ECFs,,,,you should familiarize yourself with them.
They were taught by the Apostles and have a lot to say.
Some even almost made into the NT!

Ah,,

I am familiar with the earlier church fathers

the name John, James, Peter, Paul are my church fathers. Anyone outside of the word of God are not inspired. And no I do not trust in them.

The jews made this mistake and it led them to crucify christ, I will not make that mistake.

And the ones THEY taught are the very same persons that compiled the NT and made it canon.

Actually you using a catholic argument

Peter called Pauls words scripture.

God composed the Bible and put it together. Not the Roman Catholic Church. Thank you. But again if you want to give credit to man, feel free.. I will not..

So, yes, it's good to know what they were taught by John and Peter, etc.

That does not mean they were right.

Paul taught people personally in his own fighting’s who turned on him

Jesus had many disciples taught personally by him who turned on him

Thats why I stick to the word.. and do not look to what men think..

Thats what calvinists do. They follow a man or men, not God

Same to catholics and other christian churches.

The bible tells me to study to show myself approved, a workman who needs not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth,

I can read what men think, But I stopped blindly following men about 15 years ago.. I suffers everyone do this

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're right DC.
There's a member right here on this Forum (not on this thread) that believes exactly what you've stated and claims a person could LIVE IN SIN and still be saved.

Nowhere does the NT teach this...but it sounds sooooo good.

Ditto for asking forgiveness of sins. John spoke about this fully in 1 John the first and second an third chapters....

Another problem we're experiencing in Christianity is the idea that our works are like dirty rags.
All Jesus spoke about was doing good works.

So, hang tight and keep reminding everyone that Jesus is not only our Savior
but also our Lord.

Sis, please stop

he did not say you could live in sin, You took him wrong

He believes as i do. That a child of God can not live in sin.

once again, Your defenition of living in sin, and the word of Gods defenition are not the same..

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Nowhere does the NT teach this...but it sounds sooooo good.

Yeah, I've actually been around folks before they say stuff like this and just to make a point... sometimes I'll play along.

And say stuff like, "After church, I'm going to go to the bar and get drunk!"

And then just dare them... double dawg dare them to say I should not do that, or that there is something wrong with doing that.

Cause if they do, then I throw their false doctrine right back at them and say ... "well, I'm saved anyway since all my future sins have already been forgiven ya know so it's all good!"

Or, if one really ants to raise the stakes, tell them, "I gotta leave church early because I've got to go meet up with my crack dealer to score some crack rock"

One can have some fun doing this to make the point that what they are saying is complete ignorance!

They normally say that one will lose some rewards if they live in sin and sound all alarmed about that as though in their view being a believer is all about them getting rewards like that's what it's all about.