OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Eternally Grateful]

Probation is the path/Way to salvation - Israel failed in the wilderness - read Hebrews 3 (Christians are warned not to follow their example)

True, its sought through perserverence - read Romans 2:7

Theives will try and find another way however the only way to the Father is through His Son. Many assume to abide in him but live contrary to his commands. The preaching of OSAS deceives people into a false sense of salvation. God is not a debtor! He will show mercy on whom He will show mercy.

F2F

Here you go

Works salvation 101. We must work to earn salvation.

Good luck to those trying to earn salvation. Jesus said you must become poor in spirit (literally bankrupt) before you enter the kingdom.. He even warned the pharisees who thought they were already in because they kept the law. first by destoying their thinking (the law says, But I say...) then by telling them the standard they must go by to earn entrance into the kingdom apart from Grace (be perfect as your father in heave is perfect)

That's your standard. Good luck with this

 

[JLB]

There is no doubt whatsoever if a believer holds the true Gospel and is found to be "in Christ" then God is just to save them, but its God doing the judging and saving and not some man-made doctrine.

Do all Christians abide in him?

The answer is clearly no, for some think he is this, and others think he is that, and confusion abounds in the Christian mind. This is why Paul's letter to the Galatian believers is so important - it shows the importance of a true Gospel and the Judgement against those who would misrepresent it for their own benefit.

F2F

Thank you for your reply.


I don't see anything in these words of Jesus Christ about a "true Gospel" or what someone claimed "false convert"


This teaching by the Lord is about remaining "in Christ".

I can't speak for everyone, but as for myself, I desire to remain in Christ; to follow Him, to be led by His Spirit.


The simple instruction of John here is easy to understand.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


His commandments are not burdensome, there not too hard to keep. His commandments are the very definition of love.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


People that have no desire to love and follow the Savior, to be led by His Spirit, don't remain in Him. ie: they're not fruitful.


Here is what this same Apostle John said about a brother who begins (for whatever reason) to hate his brother.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes

It is not about earning or keeping salvation. Its about producing fruit.

so to use it to say you must abide or you will lose salvation is a false narrative and false gospel.

I'm posting what the scriptures say.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here is how the Apostle John instructs us to abide in Him -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


These are not my words. These are the words of Jesus Christ.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3





JLB

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm posting what the scriptures say.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here is how the Apostle John instructs us to abide in Him -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


These are not my words. These are the words of Jesus Christ.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3





JLB

I can quote that passage also. And I do

But it does not mean you understand what the passage says.

The bible can not contradict. Jesus said in john 3, 4,and 6 and many other places whoever believes HAS eternal life. In fact in John 6, It says the following

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Now Jesus did not contradict himself a few chapters later and say unless we abide in him, we will die. and we do not have eternal life.

Obeying his commands are DESCRIPTIVE. not PRESCRIPTIVE.

Jesus did nto say whoever obeys his commands will never perish but have eternal life and he will raise him on the last day. He said whoever believes in him, eats the bread from heaven, or his flesh and blood (the words of the gospel)

sorry my friend.. You can't oull a verse out of context then demand your just listening to the word. when your interpretation contradicts Jesus very own teaching

 

[JLB]

I can quote that passage also. And I do

But it does not mean you understand what the passage says.

The bible can not contradict. Jesus said in john 3, 4,and 6 and many other places whoever believes HAS eternal life. In fact in John 6, It says the following

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Having eternal life is being in Christ; being joined to Him and being one spirit with Him; thus being one spirit with the Spirit of life in Christ.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

To say it another way, knowing Him is eternal life.

As long as you remain in Christ, you have eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Are you saying that if a person does not remain in Christ, they still have eternal life?




JLB

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Not that just anything the early church did or did not practice (especially later accretions--eg, Orthodoxy's icon veneration is brought into practice within the first few hundred years) is automatically the gold standard; but, when you add these facts to the innumerable Scriptural refutations against it, there can, to any fair mind, be no uncertainty that OSAS is not from God.

OSAS simply comes down to Jesus' promise, "Believe in Me and you will be saved."
He is the Author of our faith. So He wrote the story of your salvation.
What is faith? It is a gift, with certainty attached to it, His assurance of things hoped for. We believe that we ARE SAVED, NOT that maybe we will be saved! If you thought you could lose it, you would not be certain. Your faith would be shallow and conditional, based on your performance. In other words, a salvation by works.
" ...Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 1 Peter 1:3-4

" ...He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, Eph. 1:4-5
Our Father gives His Son His sheep, Whom He calls and they come. Would He give a gift, then take it away? If He did not know the future, He could make that error. Why would He give something to someone knowing that they would recklessly lose it - if they could?
We are saved.
The Parable of the Sower of Seed enlightens us to the narrow path to heaven. The seed planted in shallow soil or rocky soil does not grow deep roots, nor does it grow to produce fruit. Only the seed planted in fertile soil grows, because it was cared for, nourished properly and produces fruit.

There will be a great faling away coming soon. Those who fall away and are cut-off and thrown in the fire, never had true faith. Whatever they have (a weak, humanly constructed facimile of real faith) will be tested and will fail when the trials in the Great Tribulation comes. The rest of us born again Christians will persevere through it all.

A possible test that some actually are given today:
Muslim terrorists break down your door, threaten to chop your head off if you do not denounce Jesus and convert to Islam! At that moment, you will know if your faith is real or shallow. Will you look him in the face and say NO, or to save your life, cower and do what they say?
Will you be afraid, cry, beg or stand strong with the knowledge that in moments you will be with the Lord?
Death comes unannounced sometimes, quickly, but for most of us, gradually and so we are given time.
Is your hope in Jesus' promise real and secure or not?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Having eternal life is being in Christ; being joined to Him and being one spirit with Him; thus being one spirit with the Spirit of life in Christ.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

To say it another way, knowing Him is eternal life.

As long as you remain in Christ, you have eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Are you saying that if a person does not remain in Christ, they still have eternal life?




JLB

Then you have conditional life. Not eternal life

Jesus said in John 6 and John 3 you would never die. I Guess Jesus did nto get the memo.

I would still with what Jesus said, that is what My faith is in. Not in my ability to abide in him.. I am human, I have a human nature (the flesh) and to depend on my flesh abiding in jesus 24/7 to secure my salvation would be foolish on my part.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Pride will not allow them to see. they will continue like the pharisees Judging the gentiles (us) because we so called love our sin, and hate God..

We're not dealing with The Elect here but with the nominal kind. It's why their ego leads them to respond with anger and sarcastic accusations when the truth of God's word is brought to them.

They show us by their behaviors, the actual message in Christ, the truth that is irrevocable eternal life and Salvation ,is taken as foolishness to them.

Which is why they argue it isn't eternal,we can choose to abandon God's free gift He gave us by His choice,not of ourselves. We have to earn,work,for or to keep Salvation,etc...


Only Holy Spirit God can enter in and change them.Not our debating their false teachings.
Meanwhile, they blaspheme the Holy Spirit and insist the Gospel is false as Yeshua taught it. Yet,correct as they insist upon it.

1 Corinthians 2:14

Romans 8:7
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

 

[JLB]

Then you have conditional life. Not eternal life

Jesus said in John 6 and John 3 you would never die. I Guess Jesus did nto get the memo.

I would still with what Jesus said, that is what My faith is in. Not in my ability to abide in him.. I am human, I have a human nature (the flesh) and to depend on my flesh abiding in jesus 24/7 to secure my salvation would be foolish on my part.

You will have to do better than just simply deny what the scriptures say, and insert your own narrative based on something you read by someone.

John 6 and John 3 is not scripture. You seem desperate for anything to sling at me, as if I am your enemy.

If you choose to ignore the words of Jesus in favor of your preconditioned mindset that comes from the teachings of man, then that is your choice.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



JLB

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You will have to do better than just simply deny what the scriptures say, and insert your own narrative based on something you read by someone.

I did not deny scripture. Your going to have to do better if your going to try to discuss a passage..

John 6 and John 3 is not scripture. You seem desperate for anything to sling at me, as if I am your enemy.

So you have not read John 3 about whoever believes has eternal life

You have not read John 6 about the bread of life, which one can eat and not die.

I am sorry, Since yuo spoke as if you KNOW the word of God. i assumed you know the passages I spoke of and could readily understand,

Or maybe you just want to make whatever excuse you can to ignore what I say?

If you choose to ignore the words of Jesus in favor of your preconditioned mindset that comes from the teachings of man, then that is your choice.

I am not ignoring him, I am interpreting him correctly..

You need to lighten up my friend, Your judgment is not welcome or justified..

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Already explained what this meant

Here is how we are instructed to remain in Christ -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

This is not a pre-condition, if it is we are under law not under grace. You can't have it both ways, you want to earn your salvation feel free. But you will not like when you get to heaven if you continue it (lord lord I did all these things in your name etc etc..)

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



JLB

Amen.. But this does not support your view any more than it supports mine, I agree with this statement, Whoever sins has NEVER seen or known God.

But I also know whoever is born of God can not live in sin..

so you have yet another passage in the NT which refutes your works based gospel.

 

[JLB]

I did not deny scripture. Your going to have to do better if your going to try to discuss a passage..

I have done all I need to do, by quoting scripture and the crystal clear instructions from the Apostle John.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here is how the scriptures instruct us to remain in Christ -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


If you disagree with what the scriptures teach then you like so many others that follow the doctrine of man will be found without Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9


If we sin, we can confess our sins and be forgiven and cleansed.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9





JLB

 

[BlessedPeace]

We have been over this Blessed, its not a Gift if you believe its guaranteed! You think you have a claim on God as though He is a wholesaler and you want to place an order!

You should read Matthew 19:27 - 20:16

Am I (God) not permitted to do what I want with what belongs to me? Mt 20:15

You should also read 1 Chornicles 29:13-14 this will give you a good dose of perspective!

Those blessed with Salvation will know it is a gift for a faithfilled life and they will also know not everyone will receive it...even those who you might have thought were guaranteed it.

God owes no man anything, ever!

F2F

You think Christians believe God owes us something? Fool! Proverbs 18:7

You should stop blaspheming the Holy Spirit. For when you do meet Him face to face, you will answer for every word. As shall we all.

You dare insist the Gospel , the free irrevocable gift of God, is not a gift of God when it is an eternal irrevocable gift of Salvation!

Yes, you do dare.
Because you know not.

And not I,nor any of The Elect here,shall ever open your mind.

We know this.
And enough has been said to you so to make further responses for the sake of those new to our walk to realize you are never to be believed. Not you or those who argue against the eternal Truth of Irrevocable Salvation,i.e. The Gospel.

Hear this all new Christians,members of God's Elect.

Never believe,respect,accept,any argument that insists you are not what Yeshua/Jesus died for.
And that is His Good News.
You are Saved for eternity,as an eternally irrevocably Saved from your Sin and the second death, member of The Elect of God.

Not of your own doing!

But by the choice,the grace,of God.

You are not Saved by your choice! So you cannot brag,boast,you found Christ and chose to follow Him.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Never believe the liars who preach the lie that your eternal irrevocable Salvation is a license to Sin.

1 John 3:
7. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.


Never believe the lie that you,The Elect of God, have to keep your nose to the grindstone and keep working so to remain in Christ. So to stay Saved and then only find out if you succeeded once you are dead and standing in judgement before God.
That's a lie of and from Satan.


When you do nothing to Save yourself how would you ever come to believe it is incumbent upon you to work to stay Saved?


Satan has been a liar from the beginning. Don't fall for his disciples lies today.

As a new Christian member of The Elect, you must learn discernment. And you shall. Yours is a journey and relationship with God. Take your time. Pray attention.

And learn from the Satanic tares vieing for your attention from their place in the ditch as they think they can get you to follow them into their darkness.

Yeshua/Jesus spoke of them. They are damned and doomed.
And they hate the light. Only God changes that.

Never think they can change your relationship with God. Your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life for eternity.

They do not believe that. Don't let lies distract you the New member in Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have done all I need to do, by quoting scripture and the crystal clear instructions from the Apostle John.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here is how the scriptures instruct us to remain in Christ -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


If you disagree with what the scriptures teach then you like so many others that follow the doctrine of man will be found without Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9


If we sin, we can confess our sins and be forgiven and cleansed.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9





JLB

I let you go

You think that means they lost salvation. Your in error. and in doing so you teach works. Keep trying to earn your salvation (while denying it). I will keep depending on Christ.

 

[JLB]

I let you go

You think that means they lost salvation. Your in error. and in doing so you teach works. Keep trying to earn your salvation (while denying it). I will keep depending on Christ.

I think it means we need to remain in Christ.

What does remain in Christ mean to you?



JLB

 

[BlessedPeace]

I think it means we need to remain in Christ.

What does remain in Christ mean to you?



JLB

When Christ/God called us to Him , He can certainly keep us in Him. Ergo,we remain in Him.

 

[JLB]

When Christ/God called us to Him , He can certainly keep us in Him. Ergo,we remain in Him.

That's for sharing your opinion.

Everyone seems to have their own opinion about salvation.

We need to follow Christ and His teachings if we want to be on solid ground.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9

• Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think it means we need to remain in Christ.

What does remain in Christ mean to you?



JLB

According to John 6 I abide in him as long as he lives because I entrusted my eternity to him in faith and was given eternal life based on his promise

In John 15 it means to produce fruit. We can not produce fruit without abiding in him

You have to get context you can”t just pull a verse of of context then demand your right

 

[BlessedPeace]

That's for sharing your opinion.

Everyone seems to have their own opinion about salvation.

We need to follow Christ and His teachings if we want to be on solid ground.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9

• Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4

I shared Scripture.
Of course you misunderstood 1 John 1:7-9.

That was a teaching directed at those unsaved. Speaking in relational terminology, if we say we have no Sin....if they thought they had no sin when hearing the Gospel of Sin redemption they would then realize they are in fact Sinners.

The Elect of God are Redeemed from Sin. Washed clean by the blood of the Lamb of God, Yeshua/Jesus. Who was the propitiation (Dictionary:

1. the action of propitiating or appeasing a god, spirit, or person.
   "he lifted his hands in propitiation"
   • atonement, especially that of Jesus Christ.)
   • for our Sin.​

He was the last innocent blood sacrifice that redeemed the whole world, those whom God calls to His grace and eternal irrevocable Salvation from Sin.
We are made new,washed clean in He who is the living Water of Eternal Life. Dead to our former selves,Sinner self,to arise as a New Creation in Him. And He,indwelling,us.

If we say we have Sin and are Sinners after that, we are not so. And we never knew Him.

 

[BlessedPeace]

We have been over this Blessed, its not a Gift if you believe its guaranteed! You think you have a claim on God as though He is a wholesaler and you want to place an order!

You should read Matthew 19:27 - 20:16

Am I (God) not permitted to do what I want with what belongs to me? Mt 20:15

You should also read 1 Chornicles 29:13-14 this will give you a good dose of perspective!

Those blessed with Salvation will know it is a gift for a faithfilled life and they will also know not everyone will receive it...even those who you might have thought were guaranteed it.

God owes no man anything, ever!

F2F

You have arrived now at a point of desperation.
It is sad yet it is to be expected. And we who are in Christ will learn from your example here.

Thank God for that.

 

[face2face]

Here you go

Works salvation 101. We must work to earn salvation.

Good luck to those trying to earn salvation. Jesus said you must become poor in spirit (literally bankrupt) before you enter the kingdom.. He even warned the pharisees who thought they were already in because they kept the law. first by destoying their thinking (the law says, But I say...) then by telling them the standard they must go by to earn entrance into the kingdom apart from Grace (be perfect as your father in heave is perfect)

That's your standard. Good luck with this

Who said anything about earning salvation? Do you not know that Faith works? Without Faith its impossible to please Him.
F2F