Did Paul know everything there is to know?

[Spiritual Israelite]

If Paul knew of both resurrections in revelation,the one before the millennium and the one after ,then why didn't he write about both resurections 1000 years apart?

Because they're not literally 1000 years apart and you are not accepting that the first resurrection was Christ's resurrection as specifically taught in verses like Acts 26:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:20. The thousand years is symbolic for a long time. There is actually more than 1,000 years between the first resurrection and the second, but people spiritually have part in the first resurrection (Christ's resurrection) throughout that time period (see Ephesians 2:4-6, Romans 6:1-4, Colossians 2:11-13, etc.).

The word "thousand" is used symbolically sometimes in scripture. Here are a couple examples:

Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

God keeps His promises forever, right? It's not as if His promises would expire after a literal thousand generations went by, right? So, the word "thousand" is used figuratively here to represent however much time is left before eternity is ushered in.

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

First, this says "every beast of the forest is mine" and this is in relation to God. Surely, this is not saying every beast of the forest is His but only the cattle upon a thousand hills are His, right? It's not as if the cattle on the 1,001st hill aren't also His, right? So, again, the word "thousand" is used figuratively there. And there are several other examples like this in scripture. And I believe Revelation 20 is another one.

Notice that Revelation 20 is about Jesus reigning with those who priests and kings of Him and the Father. Is He not already reigning now? Scripture says that He is.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[tailgator]

I simply don't believe Paul knows everything God and Christ knows.
He may know more than Peter but less than John.

 

[tailgator]

Because they're not literally 1000 years apart. That is symbolic. The word "thousand" is used symbolically sometimes in scripture. Here are a couple examples:

Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

God keeps His promises forever, right? It's not as if His promises would expire after a literal thousand generations went by, right? So, the word "thousand" is used figuratively here to represent however much time is left before eternity is ushered in.

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

First, this says "every beast of the forest is mine" and this is in relation to God. Surely, this is not saying every beast of the forest is His but only the cattle upon a thousand hills are His, right? It's not as if the cattle on the 1,001st hill aren't also His, right? So, again, the word "thousand" is used figuratively there. And there are several other examples like this in scripture. And I believe Revelation 20 is another one.

Notice that Revelation 20 is about Jesus reigning with those who priests and kings of Him and the Father. Is He not already reigning now? Scripture says that He is.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

I'm counting no less the 4 times ,the word of God says a thousand years.
It sounds to me that God wants to make this perfectly clear that the people who are resurected in the first resurection will reign 1000 years before Gog rides into town.
But somehow you are missing the memo .



Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[tailgator]

Because they're not literally 1000 years apart and you are not accepting that the first resurrection was Christ's resurrection as specifically taught in verses like Acts 26:23 and 1 Corinthians 15:20. The thousand years is symbolic for a long time. There is actually more than 1,000 years between the first resurrection and the second, but people spiritually have part in the first resurrection (Christ's resurrection) throughout that time period (see Ephesians 2:4-6, Romans 6:1-4, Colossians 2:11-13, etc.).

The word "thousand" is used symbolically sometimes in scripture. Here are a couple examples:

Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

God keeps His promises forever, right? It's not as if His promises would expire after a literal thousand generations went by, right? So, the word "thousand" is used figuratively here to represent however much time is left before eternity is ushered in.

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

First, this says "every beast of the forest is mine" and this is in relation to God. Surely, this is not saying every beast of the forest is His but only the cattle upon a thousand hills are His, right? It's not as if the cattle on the 1,001st hill aren't also His, right? So, again, the word "thousand" is used figuratively there. And there are several other examples like this in scripture. And I believe Revelation 20 is another one.

Notice that Revelation 20 is about Jesus reigning with those who priests and kings of Him and the Father. Is He not already reigning now? Scripture says that He is.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

So you don't believe the resurected saints who die for their testimony of Christ will reign with Christ for 1000 years and you do not believe there is another resurrection after those 1000 years.

Is there anything in the book of revelation that you do believe?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm counting no less the 4 times ,the word of God says a thousand years.
It sounds to me that God wants to make this perfectly clear that the people who are resurected in the first resurection will reign 1000 years before Gog rides into town.
But somehow you are missing the memo .

The number of times something is mentioned does not determine whether it is symbolic or literal. Should we think that the beast is a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns since the beast is mentioned 32 times in the book?

 

[Jesusfollower]

Im in a conversation with someone who is convinced that Paul new everything.
That he himself received the revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him to show his servants things which must shortly come to pass.



How many people on this board believe Paul received the revelation of Jesus Christ before John?

I certainly do not!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you don't believe the resurected saints who die for their testimony of Christ will reign with Christ for 1000 years and you do not believe there is another resurrection after those 1000 years.

I don't interpret Revelation 20 the way you do, but I believe it is all true just as much as you do.

Is there anything in the book of revelation that you do believe?

All of it. I just don't interpret it the way you do. Look, you come up with some of the most ridiculous comments I've ever seen in my life and you are questioning what I believe? Get serious. You can't even recognize that it's unbelievers who will be cast into the lake of fire! You can't have any less discernment than that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I simply don't believe Paul knows everything God and Christ knows.
He may know more than Peter but less than John.

That's a baseless belief. If this was true, then why did God have Paul write about half of the New Testament instead of John?

If you think Paul and even we here can't know what Christ knows, then why did He say this:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And why did Paul write this:

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

 

[tailgator]

The number of times something is mentioned does not determine whether it is symbolic or literal. Should we think that the beast is a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns since the beast is mentioned 32 times in the book?

The word of God says what the beast is.
The word of God also says what the thousand years are.

A thousand years.


Do you still not get the memo?

 

[tailgator]

I certainly do not!

You said Paul knew everything John did.

That would include everything in the book of revelation which was given to John.

Paul died before John recieved the revelation.

I stated paul.may not have known about the things in revelation such as the second resurection.

You argued and said Paul knew everything John did which would include the revelation of Jesus Christ which was given to John to write.

You changing your tune now?

 

[tailgator]

I don't interpret Revelation 20 the way you do, but I believe it is all true just as much as you do.


All of it. I just don't interpret it the way you do. Look, you come up with some of the most ridiculous comments I've ever seen in my life and you are questioning what I believe? Get serious. You can't even recognize that it's unbelievers who will be cast into the lake of fire! You can't have any less discernment than that.

I'm not interpreting revelation 20.

I'm stating it word for word.
You are the only one interpreting it to say it says something other than it does.

You have nearly rewritten revelation 20 entirely.

 

[tailgator]

That's a baseless belief. If this was true, then why did God have Paul write about half of the New Testament instead of John?

If you think Paul and even we here can't know what Christ knows, then why did He say this:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And why did Paul write this:

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

I see where God told John to write revelation but I have not seen where God told Paul to write anything.

I will show you where John was told to write the book.of revelation if you show me where God told Paul to write.

Revelation 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.


"What thou seest, write in a book"



Ok.,see how easy that was?
Now you do it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not interpreting revelation 20.

I'm stating it word for word.
You are the only one interpreting it to say it says something other than it does.

You have nearly rewritten revelation 20 entirely.

This is rich coming from you. You don't read the following word for word, so stop being hypocritical.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Taken literally word for word, Jesus said here that literally ALL who are in the graves (all of the dead) will be resurrected at generally the same time. But, you don't accept this. You have decided that a passage from the most highly symbolic book in scripture should be interpreted literally word for word. No spiritual discernment required somehow. But, then you don't do the same with passages like John 5:28-29 which are written very straightforwardly while not being contained in a very highly symbolic book that was purposely "signified" (Revelation 1:1). You just have a terrible approach to interpreting scripture that doesn't make any sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I see where God told John to write revelation but I have not seen where God told Paul to write anything.

I will show you where John was told to write the book.of revelation if you show me where God told Paul to write.

Revelation 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.


"What thou seest, write in a book"



Ok.,see how easy that was?
Now you do it.

What in the world are you saying here? Do you not believe that Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit of God when he wrote his letters? This discussion is getting to be more disturbing as it goes on. I'm starting to have very serious questions about you and the way you look at the word of God. I've heard of people who downplay Paul's writings and say they are not as trustworthy as the gospels and books like Revelation. Are you one of those people?

 

[tailgator]

This is rich coming from you. You don't read the following word for word, so stop being hypocritical.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Taken literally word for word, Jesus said here that literally ALL who are in the graves (all of the dead) will be resurrected at generally the same time. But, you don't accept this. You have decided that a passage from the most highly symbolic book in scripture should be interpreted literally word for word. No spiritual discernment required somehow. But, then you don't do the same with passages like John 5:28-29 which are written very straightforwardly while not being contained in a very highly symbolic book that was purposely "signified" (Revelation 1:1). You just have a terrible approach to interpreting scripture that doesn't make any sense.

We were talking about revelation 20
As for John 5:28,I read it word for word.

But I don't see where it disputes the two separate resurrections in revelation 20.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The word of God says what the beast is.

Does it now? Tell me exactly what the beast represents. Don't tell me its seven heads are seven mountains and things like that. I'm not asking that. I'm asking you to tell me exactly what you think the beast is.

The word of God also says what the thousand years are.

A thousand years.


Do you still not get the memo?

Did you not get the memo from the rest of the New Testament which says that Christ has been reigning since His resurrection? Is that not something you think is important to keep in mind when looking at Revelation 20? Does it not matter to you if you interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that lines up with the rest of scripture?

 

[tailgator]

What in the world are you saying here? Do you not believe that Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit of God when he wrote his letters? This discussion is getting to be more disturbing as it goes on. I'm starting to have very serious questions about you and the way you look at the word of God. I've heard of people who downplay Paul's writings and say they are not as trustworthy as the gospels and books like Revelation. Are you one of those people?

You said God had Paul write.

Can you provide a verse where God told Paul to write?


I provided a verse which showed John being told to write.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We were talking about revelation 20
As for John 5:28,I read it word for word.

But I don't see where it disputes the two separate resurrections in revelation 20.

You do not! Don't lie! Read word for word, it says that a singular hour is coming when ALL of the dead will be resurrected. You do NOT believe that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You said God had Paul write.

Can you provide a verse where God told Paul to write?


I provided a verse which showed John being told to write.

Answer my question, please. Do you believe that Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit of God when he wrote his letters? Yes or no?

 

[tailgator]

Does it now? Tell me exactly what the beast represents. Don't tell me its seven heads are seven mountains and things like that. I'm not asking that. I'm asking you to tell me exactly what you think the beast is.


Did you not get the memo from the rest of the New Testament which says that Christ has been reigning since His resurrection? Is that not something you think is important to keep in mind when looking at Revelation 20? Does it not matter to you if you interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that lines up with the rest of scripture?

The word of God says the beast is a kingdom.