How did Paganism get into the church?

[Hepzibah]

@Hobie

"There is not another church in the world so dedicated to teaching salvation by good works as the church of Rome. It is pagan. Salvation is by grace through faith. Eph. 2:8, 9 (Catholic translation)"

I have not read through 6 pages, but I don't believe that is true. A child enters the church at water baptism and is therefore saved, but must perform works to stay saved or spend some time in pugatory. I have had no contact whatsoever with the RCC.

 

[Pearl]

@Hobie

"There is not another church in the world so dedicated to teaching salvation by good works as the church of Rome. It is pagan. Salvation is by grace through faith. Eph. 2:8, 9 (Catholic translation)"

I have not read through 6 pages, but I don't believe that is true. A child enters the church at water baptism and is therefore saved, but must perform works to stay saved or spend some time in pugatory. I have had no contact whatsoever with the RCC.

When Jesus said 'You must be born again' he said it to an adult man. No mention of child 'baptism or purgatory. Forget the Catholic version of being born again and seek out what it really means, pray about it, dare to look at other sources and God will reveal it to you. @Hepzibah

John 3:1-3
Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.” Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

John 3:7
You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

 

[Hepzibah]

When Jesus said 'You must be born again' he said it to an adult man. No mention of child 'baptism or purgatory. Forget the Catholic version of being born again and seek out what it really means, pray about it, dare to look at other sources and God will reveal it to you. @Hepzibah

John 3:1-3
Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.” Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

John 3:7
You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

Hi l was not stating biblical truth but pointing out what the RCC teaches.

 

[Pearl]

Hi l was not stating biblical truth but pointing out what the RCC teaches.

Hi, yes I got that @Hepzibah The RCC teaches a lot of untruths that aren't biblical. Shame so many people think they are born again because of infant baptism. If there are any 'works' that Catholics need to do it is to seek God's truth over man's idea of it.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

How did Paganism get into the church?​

(Removed)

Hi my friend

Just a reminder that, as per the rules of the Forum, discussion on the topic of the Trinity is not allowed.

 

[Keiw]

Yes thanks for that! I would actually add to your idea though. The teaching people have of paganism corrupting Christianity back in the early days comes from one major source Alexander Hislop. Some of the reformers had vague notions of this but never really developed them the way Hislop did in his book "The Two Babylon's". Anyway Hislop's work has been exposed as being sloppy history, Conspiracy Theory for a good 160 years or so, but it is very popular in some circles since it plays to certain group's agendas etc.

The false God in the Chaldean rites of spring festival=Beltis the queen of heaven Called Astarte( 2nd t silent) (in another language--Ishtar on the Assyrian monuments pronounced-eastar-- The great apostasy named easter after the false god. The dyed eggs of pasch=pagan false god worship practice.
The saturnalia festival on or around dec 25--worship to the sun God. Feasting and the exchanging of gifts marked the pagan holiday.
Santa who steals 98% minimum of the Christmas holiday( day after thanksgiving all the way to dec 25th morning=santa first) unscrambled spells-satan.
This world is blind( 2 Cor 4:4)

 

[Pavel Mosko]

The false God in the Chaldean rites of spring festival=Beltis the queen of heaven Called Astarte( 2nd t silent) (in another language--Ishtar on the Assyrian monuments pronounced-eastar-- The great apostasy named easter after the false god. The dyed eggs of pasch=pagan false god worship practice.
The saturnalia festival on or around dec 25--worship to the sun God. Feasting and the exchanging of gifts marked the pagan holiday.
Santa who steals 98% minimum of the Christmas holiday( day after thanksgiving all the way to dec 25th morning=santa first) unscrambled spells-satan.
This world is blind( 2 Cor 4:4)

Thank you for illustrating my point.

Let's just take eggs for instance. I hear the Hislop nonsense from all areas of Primitivist sects: Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, various Pentecostals and Charismatics, and yes even Messianic Jews. The problem is people are not being objective about any of this stuff. In retrospect I really laugh at Messianics going on about Babylonian this and that. Colored Easter eggs do not really have much to do with Christianity. period. They appear for family gatherings and festivals but nothing deeply religious.

But you know who has Eggs in their worship? Most Messianic Jews on their actual Passover celebration. They have a "Passover Plate" that doesn't look much like what you see in the Torah concerning God's instructions to the Israelites on celebrating this Feast. And guess what is the only non-vegetarian item you get to eat during the Passover Seder? Is it a lamb rib or piece of lamb? Nope. It is a hardboiled egg!!! The lamb bone is on the plate, but it is just as a remembrance of the original Seder meal, you are not supposed to eat it, it is actually considered bad manners to try (Which I in fact did do 20 something years ago attending a Messianic Passover). So, my friends is this a nefarious Babylonian Pagan corruption of God's Passover?

 

[Lizbeth]

Nothing new under the sun. It is what the flesh is prone to unfortunately. True Christianity is a Way....it is a new Way of the Spirit, the Way of the cross....not the way of the flesh and world. But take the Holy Spirit out and you are left with a dead religion in the name of Christ and all kinds of false doctrines and practices. 'Protestant' believers need to guard against this encroaching as much as any one.

Israel of old fell into apostasy, not because she stopped believing in God but because she was trying to serve God and Baal both at the same time. Elijah called it "halting between two opinions". Like where Jesus said no man can serve two masters. So where you have mixture it is unclean and the Spirit of the Lord is not ruling it, but another spirit is.....hence dead religion. And since it is another spirit ruling which is not God's Spirit, it is therefore unequivocally "pagan".....and we are to touch not the unclean thing but come out from it!

 

[Lizbeth]

Thank you for illustrating my point.

Let's just take eggs for instance. I hear the Hislop nonsense from all areas of Primitivist sects: Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, various Pentecostals and Charismatics, and yes even Messianic Jews. The problem is people are not being objective about any of this stuff. In retrospect I really laugh at Messianics going on about Babylonian this and that. Colored Easter eggs do not really have much to do with Christianity. period. They appear for family gatherings and festivals but nothing deeply religious.

But you know who has Eggs in their worship? Most Messianic Jews on their actual Passover celebration. They have a "Passover Plate" that doesn't look much like what you see in the Torah concerning God's instructions to the Israelites on celebrating this Feast. And guess what is the only non-vegetarian item you get to eat during the Passover Seder? Is it a lamb rib or piece of lamb? Nope. It is a hardboiled egg!!! The lamb bone is on the plate, but it is just as a remembrance of the original Seder meal, you are not supposed to eat it, it is actually considered bad manners to try (Which I in fact did do 20 something years ago attending a Messianic Passover). So, my friends is this a nefarious Babylonian Pagan corruption of God's Passover?

Amen, it absolutely is. Talmudic Judaism unfortunately is not of God, but is a mixture/corruption from the Babylon captivity. That has serious implications for the new Temple they are going to build in Jerusalem. We as believers must TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING.....have nothing to do with that temple but consider it to be pagan....it's going to be highly deceptive for many. Remember the scripture.... Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers....and if ye have not the Son ye have not the Father either.

 

[Philip James]

Hi l was not stating biblical truth but pointing out what the RCC teaches.

Hello Hepzibah,

No, you were stating a twisted and false opinion of what the Catholic Church teaches..

But here's a little something to consider:

By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God,

who will repay everyone according to his works:

eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,

but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

Pax et Bonum

 

[Keiw]

Thank you for illustrating my point.

Let's just take eggs for instance. I hear the Hislop nonsense from all areas of Primitivist sects: Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, various Pentecostals and Charismatics, and yes even Messianic Jews. The problem is people are not being objective about any of this stuff. In retrospect I really laugh at Messianics going on about Babylonian this and that. Colored Easter eggs do not really have much to do with Christianity. period. They appear for family gatherings and festivals but nothing deeply religious.

But you know who has Eggs in their worship? Most Messianic Jews on their actual Passover celebration. They have a "Passover Plate" that doesn't look much like what you see in the Torah concerning God's instructions to the Israelites on celebrating this Feast. And guess what is the only non-vegetarian item you get to eat during the Passover Seder? Is it a lamb rib or piece of lamb? Nope. It is a hardboiled egg!!! The lamb bone is on the plate, but it is just as a remembrance of the original Seder meal, you are not supposed to eat it, it is actually considered bad manners to try (Which I in fact did do 20 something years ago attending a Messianic Passover). So, my friends is this a nefarious Babylonian Pagan corruption of God's Passover?

They weren't dyed eggs as practiced by the darkness to this day. Yes i know they arent religious now but they are a pagan false god worshipping rites of spring practice that lives to this day by satans will. One of his #1 tools all throughout = get parents to hand down wicked practices to their own children. By transforming into an angel of light associating wicked practices with the name Jesus.
In light of 1Cor 10:21, does one actually believe Jesus would accept anything that originated on the table of demons?

 

[Hepzibah]

Hello Hepzibah,

No, you were stating a twisted and false opinion of what the Catholic Church teaches..

But here's a little something to consider:

By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God,

who will repay everyone according to his works:

eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,

but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.

Pax et Bonum

Not sure if you understand what the problem was. It was said that the Catholic church is about works salvation but l was saying it isn't. Do you say water baptism puts someone into the church whereby they are saved?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

They weren't dyed eggs as practiced by the darkness to this day. Yes i know they arent religious now but they are a pagan false god worshipping rites of spring practice that lives to this day by satans will. One of his #1 tools all throughout = get parents to hand down wicked practices to their own children. By transforming into an angel of light associating wicked practices with the name Jesus.
In light of 1Cor 10:21, does one actually believe Jesus would accept anything that originated on the table of demons?

Ug I wrote a lengthy blog post on this basic silly topic years ago.

Introduction
In the last decade, Christmas, has come under attack. Most westerners are used to have such attacks coming from atheists, Muslims, and liberals, but what is truly, interesting is when CHRISTIANS object to Christmas displays. One of the anti-Christmas movements gaining some traction is the notion among certain Christian fundamentalists is that Christmas is a pagan corruption, and the Christmas tree itself is a form of pagan idolatry.
There are some grains of truth to this claim, but in this series, I will be putting forth some reasons why I believe the Crusade Against Christmas and Christmas trees is itself is a dangerous movement that has a few heretical implications for Christianity. Furthermore, in spite of whatever the origins of decorative trees, Christmas has been a way that Christians have celebrated some of the important truths of their faith for at least 1700 years (roughly speaking).

My Presentation of the case against the Christmas tree comes from a former Facebook Associate. He is a nondenominational Charismatic who claims to be a prophet. I will refer to him with the pseudo name, “Brother X”.


Brother X's Case against the Christmas tree in a Nutshell
1) Brother X, correctly notes the Early Church “used the Old Testament as its Bible” (Because the NT was still being written in the 1st century, and took a couple of centuries for copies to be made by hand to become widely available).
2) He then References Old Testament verses regarding Idolatry. Not only were the Jews of the OT not practice idolatry but they were supposed to avoid having a knowledge of it. They were to remove all traces of it from their land, avoid saying the names of pagan gods etc.
3) The Christmas tree is a practice that descends from paganism. (Not the exact custom, but pagans from various regions from Egypt, Rome, and Germany did decorate their homes during the winter months with greenery, like tree branches, vines, mistletoe etc. )

4) Brother X then references Jeremiah 10:3-4. Brother X “Doesn’t this sound like a Christmas tree?”
Jeremiah 10:3-4
“For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool. 4"They decorate it with silver and with gold; They fasten it with nails and with hammers So that it will not totter.”
5) Brother X notes Old Testament passages regarding contamination (i.e. leprosy, mold, other disease) says this is a prevalent theme in the Pentateuch because “of the spiritual implications from contamination”. People can be corrupted by coming into contact with things that are impure, corrupt and evil.
6) Therefore, according to Brother X, all Christians should stay away from all customs and practices that descend from paganism, even Christmas trees... L
PS – or point 7) Brother X, believes the reluctance of other Christians to see things the way he does is a result of “Their conscience being seared” (1 Timothy 4:2) and is further proof of their idolatry!



My Rebuttal point 1) Brother X view is contradicted by Jesus and the NT.
Mark 7:17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Our corruption is not a result of being exposed to things the Mosaic Law forbids but the sins we actually practice. I guarantee that 99.999% of people buy and decorate a Christmas tree not to worship it, or to celebrate pagan gods but because they think it is pretty and want to make their home a bit more festive and bright for the holidays. (This is especially true because the person most responsible for Christmas trees in our homes today is Martin Luther!)

Martin Luther's influence on Christmas traditions and atmospheric Christmas Markets - The Christian Index


Point 2) Bishop Elect Stan Smith reaction
My BFF is too busy to be blogging these days, but figured I would give his reaction which is very apt and on target. He cites: Colossians 2:21-23New International Version (NIV)
21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
“This is a way of being special without having to actually do anything, Like help someone.”
(This is actually jumping the gun a bit, but he actually is on to something here. One of my later points, I was going to make Brother X seem to be on the road to becoming a cult leader. He never seems to be able to be at a church for any length of time. He seems driven to nitpick and fault find with everyone around him. He has his own little group that he is happy with, but he pretty much sets the rules and expels anybody that contradicts him).

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Point 3) Inconsistencies and Myths about Culture
1) People who make these overly strict rules are usually not entirely consistent in their application of such principles (and thank God for that). What I’m saying is we have some aspects of the pagan heritage that are embed deep in our society that are hard to escape from. A few examples: The Months of the Year come from Roman pagan society, while the names of the days of the week come directly from Norse pagan society. Do such people protest these bits of paganism by refusing to use such terminology? Another example is our money, it is no secret that many of the Founding Fathers were Masons and used the symbols taken from Egyptian paganism. Do such people refuse to use US dollar bills because “The All-Seeing Eye of Ra” is printed on one side? I suspect the answer in most cases would be “No”, since that would extremely inconvenient.

2) A) Besides this there are some myths about culture. Many Charismatics have almost a Gnostic conception of a pure “Spiritual” belief or practice that is free of culture. The first time I recognized this was reading a Ken Hagin book, “Plans, Purposes, and Pursuits” when he spoke about “worship in the Spirit”. He chastised people who did “Square Dancing” during the Church service (dancing in the Spirit), and said “that was fleshly”. He however approved of the “Pentecostal hop”, which I guess seems more visceral and therefore more spiritual. This sort of reasoning is nonsense. Almost everything we do is culture related. The Pentecostal hop is just a product of a special sub culture. It is not something that is purely spiritual. Maybe the first people who did it, reacted that way, but once others see others do it. You get into “monkey see, monkey do”. And yes, even if you are against “the teaching of men”, you do end up develop your own unique cultural tradition.

B) One thing should also be said of Hebrew Culture before ending the post. Because Hebrew culture is the culture of the Bible, and the Jews are “God’s Chosen people” many people see Hebrew culture as something that is pure and Holy, spiritual etc. To those kinds of notions, I have to remind people that every culture beyond The Garden of Eden comes from somewhere else! Before Abraham left UR of the Chaldees he resided in a pagan land and had the culture of that land. You can see that in the Old Testament itself. Why do you think God is always appearing in the Pentateuch as a form of fire? That was a vestige of the Sumerian culture and religion that was part of the early Hebrew way of seeing the divine. Similarly, during the Captivity in Egypt the Hebrew culture adopted a number of things from the Egyptians: like the practice of stoning, they adopted their forms of poetry and wisdom literature (psalms, proverbs etc. is based on similar things the Egyptians did). Anyway, if paganism infects true religion and culture the Hebrews were infected 4 or 5 thousand years before the Christmas tree.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Point 4) Some Positive Preaching From aspects of the pagan heritage
Philippians 1:15-18New International Version (NIV)
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
It's interesting that saint Paul only cares about one thing, that Christ is preached! He doesn’t sweat the details or motivations. So based on that I will make a few points.
A) The Christmas tree has been a means of celebrating one of “the essential truths” of Christianity the Incarnation of Christ. The Christmas tree does not corrupt true religion but utilizes and engages contemporary culture for the message of the Gospel much like Paul preaching at Mars Hill in the book of Acts.

B) On the subject, of the pagan heritage It should be noted that the pagan heritage has given us a few good things. Without evangelism of the Germanic tribes there might not be any military chaplains. One of the conditions for evangelizing the Germanic tribes was they demanded clergy that would go into battle with them (to replace their priests of Odin and Thor that went with them into battle to have the favor of the gods). And from these we got the warrior priests of the crusades, that is the early ancestor of the modern military chaplain. Can anyone truly say that this is not a benefit? (Given how vulnerable young people are during peace time, let alone when fighting an actual war.)

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Not to beat a dead horse
There are many other points that could be made and scriptures that could be quoted.
Overall, I see the Crusade against the Christmas tree as a divisive issue that goes against the basic spirit of the original "Counsel of Jerusalem" in Acts 15, and flies in the face of much of the ministry of saint Paul.

 

[Keiw]

Ug I wrote a lengthy blog post on this basic silly topic years ago.

Introduction
In the last decade, Christmas, has come under attack. Most westerners are used to have such attacks coming from atheists, Muslims, and liberals, but what is truly, interesting is when CHRISTIANS object to Christmas displays. One of the anti-Christmas movements gaining some traction is the notion among certain Christian fundamentalists is that Christmas is a pagan corruption, and the Christmas tree itself is a form of pagan idolatry.
There are some grains of truth to this claim, but in this series, I will be putting forth some reasons why I believe the Crusade Against Christmas and Christmas trees is itself is a dangerous movement that has a few heretical implications for Christianity. Furthermore, in spite of whatever the origins of decorative trees, Christmas has been a way that Christians have celebrated some of the important truths of their faith for at least 1700 years (roughly speaking).

My Presentation of the case against the Christmas tree comes from a former Facebook Associate. He is a nondenominational Charismatic who claims to be a prophet. I will refer to him with the pseudo name, “Brother X”.


Brother X's Case against the Christmas tree in a Nutshell
1) Brother X, correctly notes the Early Church “used the Old Testament as its Bible” (Because the NT was still being written in the 1st century, and took a couple of centuries for copies to be made by hand to become widely available).
2) He then References Old Testament verses regarding Idolatry. Not only were the Jews of the OT not practice idolatry but they were supposed to avoid having a knowledge of it. They were to remove all traces of it from their land, avoid saying the names of pagan gods etc.
3) The Christmas tree is a practice that descends from paganism. (Not the exact custom, but pagans from various regions from Egypt, Rome, and Germany did decorate their homes during the winter months with greenery, like tree branches, vines, mistletoe etc. )

4) Brother X then references Jeremiah 10:3-4. Brother X “Doesn’t this sound like a Christmas tree?”
Jeremiah 10:3-4
“For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool. 4"They decorate it with silver and with gold; They fasten it with nails and with hammers So that it will not totter.”
5) Brother X notes Old Testament passages regarding contamination (i.e. leprosy, mold, other disease) says this is a prevalent theme in the Pentateuch because “of the spiritual implications from contamination”. People can be corrupted by coming into contact with things that are impure, corrupt and evil.
6) Therefore, according to Brother X, all Christians should stay away from all customs and practices that descend from paganism, even Christmas trees... L
PS – or point 7) Brother X, believes the reluctance of other Christians to see things the way he does is a result of “Their conscience being seared” (1 Timothy 4:2) and is further proof of their idolatry!



My Rebuttal point 1) Brother X view is contradicted by Jesus and the NT.
Mark 7:17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Our corruption is not a result of being exposed to things the Mosaic Law forbids but the sins we actually practice. I guarantee that 99.999% of people buy and decorate a Christmas tree not to worship it, or to celebrate pagan gods but because they think it is pretty and want to make their home a bit more festive and bright for the holidays. (This is especially true because the person most responsible for Christmas trees in our homes today is Martin Luther!)
Martin Luther's influence on Christmas traditions and atmospheric Christmas Markets - The Christian Index


Point 2) Bishop Elect Stan Smith reaction
My BFF is too busy to be blogging these days, but figured I would give his reaction which is very apt and on target. He cites: Colossians 2:21-23New International Version (NIV)
21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
“This is a way of being special without having to actually do anything, Like help someone.”
(This is actually jumping the gun a bit, but he actually is on to something here. One of my later points, I was going to make Brother X seem to be on the road to becoming a cult leader. He never seems to be able to be at a church for any length of time. He seems driven to nitpick and fault find with everyone around him. He has his own little group that he is happy with, but he pretty much sets the rules and expels anybody that contradicts him).

0 doubt in all creation-santa is satan.

 

[Philip James]

It was said that the Catholic church is about works salvation

Which is false if course,,

Do you say water baptism puts someone into the church whereby they are saved?

Water is an essential element of Baptism, but , of course, it Christ who baptizes and with the gift of the Spirit, one is born anew..

Pax et Bonum

 

[Ziggy]

How did paganism get into the church?
How did the church get itself wrapped up in paganism?

who infiltrated who's religion first?
I mean first there was Pharoah. This one didn't know God. Then Moses bursts in, takes most of the people and their gold and their livestock, and heads out to the wilderness to start a new way.
Then this new way we call Judaism began infiltrating other people's lands bringing in with them, what other's might say were damnable heresies. And after awhile they would give in and check out these other ways. And they would form other religions, hinduism, zionism, catholicism and communism or atheism.

Did Jesus infiltrate the religion of Judaism in his time? They called him the devil. He came to bring schism in the church. He came to divide.
And then came christinity.
And christianity like all other religions have simply gone looking for answers in all the wrong places.
And have allowed (opened the gates even) to damnable heresies no different than Isreal when it was having it's great divisions.

Why are there so many religions? Why do people believe what they believe?

I don't remember Jesus turning away any pagans. He changed their minds.
He proved it with signs and wonders. The Word was truth.
How do we know it's truth?
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

These are your choices: God or Money.
If money is the focus or the reason for it's mission then it's not God.
And if you go in and take other countries peoples and their elements, be it gold, silver, cobalt, oil, lithium, and take away their ability to have sovereignty, well, that's just the winning side isn't it?

I'm feeling cynical tonight LOL
Hugs

 

[Hepzibah]

Which is false if course,,

I know. It is widely believed.

Water is an essential element of Baptism, but , of course, it Christ who baptizes and with the gift of the Spirit, one is born anew..

That was not what I was asking.

Pax et Bonum