Perseverance of the Saints is different from Once Saved Always Saved

[Arthur81]

Many Christians who hold to Once Saved Always Saved understand it the same as Perseverance of the Saints. The title of this thread concerns the dangerous abuse of the OSAS where some think once you do that "decision for Christ" at one point of time, and you can later be living like the Devil and thinking you are a regenerate person, or a person who has been "born from above", or "born again".

From The Heidelberg Catechism (1563) as presented online by the Christian Reformed Church in North America, with Scripture Proofs

Q & A 1
Q. What is your only comfort
in life and in death?

A. That I am not my own,1
but belong—

body and soul,
in life and in death—2

to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ.3

He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood,4
and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil.5
He also watches over me in such a way6
that not a hair can fall from my head
without the will of my Father in heaven;7
in fact, all things must work together for my salvation.8

Because I belong to him,
Christ, by his Holy Spirit,
assures me of eternal life9
and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready
from now on to live for him.10

1 1 Cor. 6:19-20
2 Rom. 14:7-9
3 1 Cor. 3:23; Titus 2:14
4 1 Pet. 1:18-19; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:2
5 John 8:34-36; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 3:1-11
6 John 6:39-40; 10:27-30; 2 Thess. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:5
7 Matt. 10:29-31; Luke 21:16-18
8 Rom. 8:28
9 Rom. 8:15-16; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13-14
10 Rom. 8:1-17

"Translation © 2011, Faith Alive Christian Resources. This English translation approved by Synod 2011 of the Christian Reformed Church in North America and by General Synod 2011 of the Reformed Church in America."

Heidelberg Catechism

www.crcna.org

Notice that a Christian's eternal security is not a "once saved always saved" but one of perseverance as written clearly in that last paragraph in the answer to Q1 -

"Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him."

*There is a Baptist version of the Heidelberg Catechism by Hercules Collins -

https://www.thecalvinist.net/etc/1680%20Orthodox%20Catechism%20(Hercules%20Collins).pdf

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree

perseverance of the saints says that the saint must persevere.

Eternal security (what some call OSAS) is based on Gods promise. Gods omniscience, Gods ability, and Gods power to not only know who has real faith. His ability to finish what he started (which paul was confident he would do, as am I) and his integrity to keep his own promises.

Thats what our hope and faith is based on. Not that we are good people who have anything to offer God in payment for our sin.

 

[3 Resurrections]

perseverance of the saints says that the saint must persevere.

Perseverance. An unfortunate word choice for the "TULIP" acronym.

It should have been "PRESERVATION of the saints" instead. This puts the emphasis not upon us, but upon God's power to retain our salvation status.

"Once saved always saved". Another unfortunate word choice for the "OSAS" acronym.

It should be "Once a SON, always a son" instead. God's adoption of individuals as His children is never rescinded. We are not foster children to be shuttled from one house to another. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God" and as His children, we will receive all the promises which God has made regarding His children. Those promises also include chastisement - even scourging - for those of His children who become disobedient. The level of rewards for God's children in eternity at the judgment is directly related to our behavior in this life. For those children of God who build upon that foundation works of "wood, hay, and stubble", they will suffer a loss of rewards, yet still will be saved, "yet so as by fire".

 

[SavedInHim]

Perseverance of the Saints is different from Once Saved Always Saved

A distinction without a difference really.

 

[Nancy]

Many Christians who hold to Once Saved Always Saved understand it the same as Perseverance of the Saints. The title of this thread concerns the dangerous abuse of the OSAS where some think once you do that "decision for Christ" at one point of time, and you can later be living like the Devil and thinking you are a regenerate person, or a person who has been "born from above", or "born again".

From The Heidelberg Catechism (1563) as presented online by the Christian Reformed Church in North America, with Scripture Proofs

Q & A 1
Q. What is your only comfort
in life and in death?

A. That I am not my own,1
but belong—

body and soul,
in life and in death—2

to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ.3

He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood,4
and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil.5
He also watches over me in such a way6
that not a hair can fall from my head
without the will of my Father in heaven;7
in fact, all things must work together for my salvation.8

Because I belong to him,
Christ, by his Holy Spirit,
assures me of eternal life9
and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready
from now on to live for him.10

1 1 Cor. 6:19-20
2 Rom. 14:7-9
3 1 Cor. 3:23; Titus 2:14
4 1 Pet. 1:18-19; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:2
5 John 8:34-36; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 3:1-11
6 John 6:39-40; 10:27-30; 2 Thess. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:5
7 Matt. 10:29-31; Luke 21:16-18
8 Rom. 8:28
9 Rom. 8:15-16; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13-14
10 Rom. 8:1-17

"Translation © 2011, Faith Alive Christian Resources. This English translation approved by Synod 2011 of the Christian Reformed Church in North America and by General Synod 2011 of the Reformed Church in America."

Heidelberg Catechism

www.crcna.org

Notice that a Christian's eternal security is not a "once saved always saved" but one of perseverance as written clearly in that last paragraph in the answer to Q1 -

"Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him."

*There is a Baptist version of the Heidelberg Catechism by Hercules Collins -

https://www.thecalvinist.net/etc/1680%20Orthodox%20Catechism%20(Hercules%20Collins).pdf

I've been hearing/reading they want to change the P to preservation as, perseverance sounds too much like work.

 

[Scott Downey]

Both are our reality

God preserves your faith in Christ by His power
1 Peter 3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

And this also is true.
You cannot remain faithful unless God promises to bless and keep you and make His face shine on you, and grants to you, His peace.
Cannot have the one without the other.

Hebrews 6

9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and [d]labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 that you do not become [e]sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

God’s Infallible Purpose in Christ​

13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.” 15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. 16 For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute.

17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the [f]immutability of His counsel, [g]confirmed it by an oath, 18 that by two [h]immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we [i]might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.

19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, 20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Many Christians who hold to Once Saved Always Saved understand it the same as Perseverance of the Saints. The title of this thread concerns the dangerous abuse of the OSAS where some think once you do that "decision for Christ" at one point of time, and you can later be living like the Devil and thinking you are a regenerate person, or a person who has been "born from above", or "born again".

From The Heidelberg Catechism (1563) as presented online by the Christian Reformed Church in North America, with Scripture Proofs

Q & A 1
Q. What is your only comfort
in life and in death?

A. That I am not my own,1
but belong—

body and soul,
in life and in death—2

to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ.3

He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood,4
and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil.5
He also watches over me in such a way6
that not a hair can fall from my head
without the will of my Father in heaven;7
in fact, all things must work together for my salvation.8

Because I belong to him,
Christ, by his Holy Spirit,
assures me of eternal life9
and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready
from now on to live for him.10

1 1 Cor. 6:19-20
2 Rom. 14:7-9
3 1 Cor. 3:23; Titus 2:14
4 1 Pet. 1:18-19; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:2
5 John 8:34-36; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 3:1-11
6 John 6:39-40; 10:27-30; 2 Thess. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:5
7 Matt. 10:29-31; Luke 21:16-18
8 Rom. 8:28
9 Rom. 8:15-16; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13-14
10 Rom. 8:1-17

"Translation © 2011, Faith Alive Christian Resources. This English translation approved by Synod 2011 of the Christian Reformed Church in North America and by General Synod 2011 of the Reformed Church in America."

Heidelberg Catechism

www.crcna.org

Notice that a Christian's eternal security is not a "once saved always saved" but one of perseverance as written clearly in that last paragraph in the answer to Q1 -

"Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him."

*There is a Baptist version of the Heidelberg Catechism by Hercules Collins -

https://www.thecalvinist.net/etc/1680%20Orthodox%20Catechism%20(Hercules%20Collins).pdf

Seems to me you are hyper parsing between teh two. Because we are OSAS we will persevere because of HIm!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Seems to me you are hyper parsing between teh two. Because we are OSAS we will persevere because of HIm!

but we do not persevere, we never could.

He keeps us, we do not keep ourself

 

[Scott Downey]

And in other words, this is true.
Revelation 17:14
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

We must first be called and chosen by God, then we are enabled by God to be faithful.
Scripture uses the word grant, as in God grants us our belief in His Son, and grants us to come to Christ, he deals to us our faith in various measure, some have more, some less, but all have faith.

Romans 12
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

The disciples would ask Christ to increase their faith. Jesus in what He said implied all you need is a faith like the smallest mustard seed and God will do miracles according to His purpose and will.

Luke 17
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.”

6 So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Many Christians who hold to Once Saved Always Saved understand it the same as Perseverance of the Saints. The title of this thread concerns the dangerous abuse of the OSAS where some think once you do that "decision for Christ" at one point of time, and you can later be living like the Devil and thinking you are a regenerate person, or a person who has been "born from above", or "born again".

From The Heidelberg Catechism (1563) as presented online by the Christian Reformed Church in North America, with Scripture Proofs

Q & A 1
Q. What is your only comfort
in life and in death?

A. That I am not my own,1
but belong—

body and soul,
in life and in death—2

to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ.3

He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood,4
and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil.5
He also watches over me in such a way6
that not a hair can fall from my head
without the will of my Father in heaven;7
in fact, all things must work together for my salvation.8

Because I belong to him,
Christ, by his Holy Spirit,
assures me of eternal life9
and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready
from now on to live for him.10

1 1 Cor. 6:19-20
2 Rom. 14:7-9
3 1 Cor. 3:23; Titus 2:14
4 1 Pet. 1:18-19; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:2
5 John 8:34-36; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 3:1-11
6 John 6:39-40; 10:27-30; 2 Thess. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:5
7 Matt. 10:29-31; Luke 21:16-18
8 Rom. 8:28
9 Rom. 8:15-16; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13-14
10 Rom. 8:1-17

"Translation © 2011, Faith Alive Christian Resources. This English translation approved by Synod 2011 of the Christian Reformed Church in North America and by General Synod 2011 of the Reformed Church in America."

Heidelberg Catechism

www.crcna.org

Notice that a Christian's eternal security is not a "once saved always saved" but one of perseverance as written clearly in that last paragraph in the answer to Q1 -

"Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him."

*There is a Baptist version of the Heidelberg Catechism by Hercules Collins -

https://www.thecalvinist.net/etc/1680%20Orthodox%20Catechism%20(Hercules%20Collins).pdf

Arthur, you're 100% correct.
Perseverance of the saints means that those that God has chosen (which I don't agree with BTW) will necessarily persevere until the end of their life.
I could debunk this using Calvin's words in one minute BTW.

OSAS just means that a person "accepted" Jesus at some point and now they could live however they want to but they'll still be saved because Jesus will do all the work for them and forgive them no matter what.

You forgot Eternal Security which is my belief and that of most of the Christian churches.
We can be eternally secure as long as we remain IN CHRIST.
To remain in Christ means to live as He would want us to.

And there you have all three.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've been hearing/reading they want to change the P to preservation as, perseverance sounds too much like work.

Hi Nancy...
I think I'll stick around this time.
Nice to see that you're still here.

Works....right.
Some reformed persons believe that FAITH is a work...even though Paul preached heartily against it.
He said IF IT'S OF FAITH IT CANNOT BE OF WORKS....
Romans 11:6
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

But, we do like to make up our own bibles, don't we?

 

[Scott Downey]

Hi Nancy...
I think I'll stick around this time.
Nice to see that you're still here.

Works....right.
Some reformed persons believe that FAITH is a work...even though Paul preached heartily against it.
He said IF IT'S OF FAITH IT CANNOT BE OF WORKS....
Romans 11:6
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

But, we do like to make up our own bibles, don't we?

Our faith is given to us by God, we are granted to come to Christ, while some others are not granted to come to Christ.
So faith for a reformed person can never be a work of a man.

I look at it as the work of God in your life. Faith can be thought of as the good fruit of the Holy Spirit at work within us.
You do know that in this NC, God dwells within His people, a sure guarantee of our being saved, as He has given to us of His Spirit.

It can only come to us by the mercies of God towards us. It is not something we create in ourselves, as naturally minded men have no faith and are at enmity against God and Christ.

We must be changed, God gives to us the new heart, this is what being born again is. We become a new creation in Christ, we are then of God as God has created us ANEW. You must first be born again of God to see the kingdom of God and to enter there. Otherwise, the enmity remains.

That enmity is shown right here,
Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be

The statement is profound and a testament against the natural mind of a man, that it can not and indeed never can be subject to the law of God.
And that law of God in the New Covenant is God commanding all men to repent and believe in His Son.


5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Our faith is given to us by God, we are granted to come to Christ, while some others are not granted to come to Christ.
So faith for a reformed person can never be a work of a man.

I look at it as the work of God in your life. Faith can be thought of as the good fruit of the Holy Spirit at work within us.
You do know that in this NC, God dwells within His people, a sure guarantee of our being saved, as He has given to us of His Spirit.

It can only come to us by the mercies of God towards us. It is not something we create in ourselves, as naturally minded men have no faith and are at enmity against God and Christ.

We must be changed, God gives to us the new heart, this is what being born again is. We become a new creation in Christ, we are then of God as God has created us ANEW. You must first be born again of God to see the kingdom of God and to enter there. Otherwise, the enmity remains.

That enmity is shown right here,
Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be

The statement is profound and a testament against the natural mind of a man, that it can not and indeed never can be subject to the law of God.
And that law of God in the New Covenant is God commanding all men to repent and believe in His Son.


5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.

I can agree with all you've said if understood correctly.
Won't be going over your entire post.

The reason I disagree with reformed theology and I do believe you're reformed, is this very first sentence of yours:

Our faith is given to us by God, we are granted to come to Christ, while some others are not granted to come to Christ.

Where exactly does the NT state this?
I haven't found one verse to support this idea yet.

What does the following mean?

John 12:32
32“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

Not all men will accept...but God draws all men because:

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Please post a couple of verses that support your theology that God only calls some and not all.

The word ALL is mentioned twice, BTW,,,,I think we can assume that both JESUS and PAUL meant ALL.

 

[Scott Downey]

I can agree with all you've said if understood correctly.
Won't be going over your entire post.

The reason I disagree with reformed theology and I do believe you're reformed, is this very first sentence of yours:

Our faith is given to us by God, we are granted to come to Christ, while some others are not granted to come to Christ.

Where exactly does the NT state this?
I haven't found one verse to support this idea yet.

What does the following mean?

John 12:32
32“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

Not all men will accept...but God draws all men because:

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


Please post a couple of verses that support your theology that God only calls some and not all.

The word ALL is mentioned twice, BTW,,,,I think we can assume that both JESUS and PAUL meant ALL.

As one example, here is what you should read and there are more that Christ specifically says too.
Phillipians 1

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

 

[GodsGrace]

As one example, here is what you should read and there are more that Christ specifically says too.
Phillipians 1

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

Is 27 your signature line??

Philippians 1:29
29For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.


Please explain what you think the above means....

It has been granted to those that accept
John 3:16
Acts 16:31

NOT ONLY to believe in Him.....
belief comes when God gifts us salvation THROUGH FAITH, Ephesians 2:8-9
but also to SUFFER WITH HIM.

We must pick up our cross daily and follow Jesus...
Luke 9:23-25
23And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.


Romans 8:16-17
16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

I see that reformed believers always add to scripture or don't accept what it plainly says.

 

[Scott Downey]

Is 27 your signature line??

Philippians 1:29
29For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.


Please explain what you think the above means....

It has been granted to those that accept
John 3:16
Acts 16:31

NOT ONLY to believe in Him.....
belief comes when God gifts us salvation THROUGH FAITH, Ephesians 2:8-9
but also to SUFFER WITH HIM.

We must pick up our cross daily and follow Jesus...
Luke 9:23-25
23And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.


Romans 8:16-17
16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

I see that reformed believers always add to scripture or don't accept what it plainly says.

Actually it's you who are taking away from scripture, not me adding.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Many Christians who hold to Once Saved Always Saved understand it the same as Perseverance of the Saints. The title of this thread concerns the dangerous abuse of the OSAS where some think once you do that "decision for Christ" at one point of time, and you can later be living like the Devil and thinking you are a regenerate person, or a person who has been "born from above", or "born again".

From The Heidelberg Catechism (1563) as presented online by the Christian Reformed Church in North America, with Scripture Proofs

Q & A 1
Q. What is your only comfort
in life and in death?

A. That I am not my own,1
but belong—

body and soul,
in life and in death—2

to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ.3

He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood,4
and has set me free from the tyranny of the devil.5
He also watches over me in such a way6
that not a hair can fall from my head
without the will of my Father in heaven;7
in fact, all things must work together for my salvation.8

Because I belong to him,
Christ, by his Holy Spirit,
assures me of eternal life9
and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready
from now on to live for him.10

1 1 Cor. 6:19-20
2 Rom. 14:7-9
3 1 Cor. 3:23; Titus 2:14
4 1 Pet. 1:18-19; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:2
5 John 8:34-36; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 3:1-11
6 John 6:39-40; 10:27-30; 2 Thess. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:5
7 Matt. 10:29-31; Luke 21:16-18
8 Rom. 8:28
9 Rom. 8:15-16; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13-14
10 Rom. 8:1-17

"Translation © 2011, Faith Alive Christian Resources. This English translation approved by Synod 2011 of the Christian Reformed Church in North America and by General Synod 2011 of the Reformed Church in America."

Heidelberg Catechism

www.crcna.org

Notice that a Christian's eternal security is not a "once saved always saved" but one of perseverance as written clearly in that last paragraph in the answer to Q1 -

"Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him."

*There is a Baptist version of the Heidelberg Catechism by Hercules Collins -

https://www.thecalvinist.net/etc/1680%20Orthodox%20Catechism%20(Hercules%20Collins).pdf

The Holy Spirit indwelt reborn eternally irrevocably Saved through and by the free gift of God's grace Christian does not,cannot,believe they have a license to Sin.

Something the natural mind cannot grasp,and God tells us why.

No matter how many times the natural man or woman repeats the lie of Eternal Irrevocable Salvation,The Gospel,being a license to Sin, that lie shall never become truth.

While the Truth will never reach those who believe in the lie.


God tells us the truth. It's right there!

Yeshua,Jesus, affords the reminder. Some do not know that truth because the truth is not given to their understanding.

Matthew 13, Matthew 22

“I Speak in Parables So They WON’T Understand.”

We who are indwelt argue against these false people thinking to teach them.

That's God's choice. Not ours.

Fight the lies wherever we find them. Yet,don't think for a moment we can change the natural mind that by God's will does not understand. Nor shall they unless nor until God intercedes.

1 Corinthians 2
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually it's you who are taking away from scripture, not me adding.

Would you care to show how I'm TAKING AWAY from scripture when I posted the verses exactly?

Perhaps you could comment on them?

I had no problem commenting on yours...
in fact you could post any verse you care to and it could be explained easily...
because the NT does not teach irresistable grace.

God does not force us to become saved.
God wants every person to be saved because He's a loving God....
But it's up to us to reply YES when He calls us...
and He calls everyone,
but not everyone answers with a Yes.

I've yet to see a verse that supports Irresistable grace.

 

[Scott Downey]

Would you care to show how I'm TAKING AWAY from scripture when I posted the verses exactly?

Perhaps you could comment on them?

I had no problem commenting on yours...
in fact you could post any verse you care to and it could be explained easily...
because the NT does not teach irresistable grace.

God does not force us to become saved.
God wants every person to be saved because He's a loving God....
But it's up to us to reply YES when He calls us...
and He calls everyone,
but not everyone answers with a Yes.

I've yet to see a verse that supports Irresistable grace.

That single verse should have changed your heart, but since that did not happen, and you want to spar with me, I can see you are not being spiritually minded. What you are is indoctrinated into a set belief structure that you have setup in your heart to believe whatever you will about God's words, even when it is contrary to what God says.

 

[Scott Downey]

Just because God desires all men to be saved, does not mean God makes that happen.
God for example set up the circumstances for mankind to seek God and if perchance find Him.
But we also hear God's word saying that no one seeks for God and they are all unprofitable.

Acts 17 proves, as does Romans 1 the heart of the unregenerate is evil, as does God also testify of man the same exact thing.

Genesis 6:5
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 8:21
And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Even when God makes circumstances to allow men to seek after God, they refuse Him continually.
Yet those who believe in free grace to all deny the truth God has revealed to man about their own evil hearted natures,
that good exists in man to seek after the Lord and find Him.

When there is good in any man that has come from the Lord alone, as He is showing His mercy towards someone in particular.

Acts 17
26 And He has made from one [j]blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.