Q for JW- KIEW?

[hies]

Jesus words to those who believe and are told they are Christian will hear these words as judgement=Matt 7:21-23--no matter what they think they did for Jesus out of love for him--Where is their gift? Oh one who works iniquity= practices a sin or willfull sin)--Will NOT get grace--Heb 10:26 is clear on that-There is no sacrifice left for ANY who practice a sin( or willfull sin)

If your teachers are not teachings these truths= RUN FROM THEM. Ear ticklers for a tithe do not teach truth.

Also interesting that you mention Matthew 7:22-23, because in another thread I wrote this:

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ - Matthew 7:22-23

Who and what were they trusting in? Not in Jesus' grace or sacrifice. But in their works. They didn't trust in Christ, but in themselves, and what they had done.

Now you might say "but I have kept the law! I'm not a worker of lawlessness! I did this, and I did that..."

For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. - James 2:10

That is why you can be saved ONLY by what Jesus has done for you, and nothing else. Any amount of trust in yourself for your salvation is self-righteous, and will lead to your damnation.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9

Not by works. Not by anything YOU do. It is a gift. Also if you have to do something for a gift, it is not a gift. So that no one may boast, or in other words be self-righteous and proud of how great they are compared to everyone else.

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. - 1 John 4:10

It's not your love for God that saves you. But His love for you. His sacrifice. His grace.

 

[PS95]

Psalm 110:1-quoted at Matt 22:44= The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord( Jesus) sit at my right hand until i make your enemies your footstool= 2 beings there-1 is Jehovah= God, one is Jesus a totally separate being who is not Jehovah. One CANNOT sit at their own right hand.

Right hand means POWER, Keiw.
right hand is symbolic of ruler-ship, authority, sovereignty, blessing, and strength

 

[PS95]

Jesus words to those who believe and are told they are Christian will hear these words as judgement=Matt 7:21-23--no matter what they think they did for Jesus out of love for him--Where is their gift? Oh one who works iniquity= practices a sin or willfull sin)--Will NOT get grace--Heb 10:26 is clear on that-There is no sacrifice left for ANY who practice a sin( or willfull sin)

If your teachers are not teachings these truths= RUN FROM THEM. Ear ticklers for a tithe do not teach truth.

Have JWs prophecied in Jesus name? MANY TIMES! Has it come true? NO. Why? FALSE PROPHECIES- that's what Jesus is saying in Matt 7
Is it a sin to false prophecy? YES.
These people are called workers of lawlessness. all sin is lawlessness.
We do not teach sin is good. We not false prophecy. We do not cast out demons falsely. Stop accusing us of what the WT has done.
Read it again and see if I'm right.
and while you have a bible out- READ ROMANS 6

 

[Keiw]

Also interesting that you mention Matthew 7:22-23, because in another thread I wrote this:

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ - Matthew 7:22-23

Who and what were they trusting in? Not in Jesus' grace or sacrifice. But in their works. They didn't trust in Christ, but in themselves, and what they had done.

Now you might say "but I have kept the law! I'm not a worker of lawlessness! I did this, and I did that..."

For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. - James 2:10

That is why you can be saved ONLY by what Jesus has done for you, and nothing else. Any amount of trust in yourself for your salvation is self-righteous, and will lead to your damnation.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9

Not by works. Not by anything YOU do. It is a gift. Also if you have to do something for a gift, it is not a gift. So that no one may boast, or in other words be self-righteous and proud of how great they are compared to everyone else.

This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. - 1 John 4:10

It's not your love for God that saves you. But His love for you. His sacrifice. His grace.

Maybe trusting in their works, but some blind guide assured them they were saved and would get grace.

 

[Keiw]

Right hand means POWER, Keiw.
right hand is symbolic of ruler-ship, authority, sovereignty, blessing, and strength

No matter what it proves 100% Jesus is not Jehovah.

 

[Keiw]

Have JWs prophecied in Jesus name? MANY TIMES! Has it come true? NO. Why? FALSE PROPHECIES- that's what Jesus is saying in Matt 7
Is it a sin to false prophecy? YES.
These people are called workers of lawlessness. all sin is lawlessness.
We do not teach sin is good. We not false prophecy. We do not cast out demons falsely. Stop accusing us of what the WT has done.
Read it again and see if I'm right.
and while you have a bible out- READ ROMANS 6

Your trinity god does not exist. It is satan posing to get worship. He is posing as ALL false gods to get worship.

 

[hies]

Maybe trusting in their works, but some blind guide assured them they were saved and would get grace.

Nope. You just added that in. Nowhere does it mention they trusted in Christ. That's actually what's completely missing.

Why is faith enough? Because the object of our faith is enough. And who’s the object of our faith? As
in what is our faith in? Jesus Christ. And since he is a sufficient Saviour to pay the sins of all those
who would trust in Him, why would you need anything else? Was Jesus incomplete with His
sacrifice? You may say, “I’ve got to do this and offer my good deeds, and hopefully that’ll be an extra
thing that’ll lead to my salvation”. That is really to say that Christ is not enough to save you, and
that’s an insult to Him. If we could be saved by our works, then Christ died for nothing (Galatians
2:21).

Jesus came to fulfil the law for us (Matthew 5:17), so that we may inherit His righteousness through
faith (Romans 10:4). And He came to die for our sins, so that we wouldn’t have to (2 Corinthians
5:21). Therefore, the only thing you need to be saved is repentance and faith, which produces good
works. James 2:18 is simply saying that true faith results in good works. James 2:23 even affirms how
Abraham was justified purely by faith and not by works. Yes, his faith caused him to do good works,
but the works played no part in him being counted as righteous, or being called a friend of God.
Simply it was his faith that was counted to him as righteousness. Him being willing to sacrifice Isaac
was actually 30 years after he was declared righteous, because in Genesis 22, when he was willing to
sacrifice Isaac, it was 30 years after Genesis 15, when he was declared righteous by God.

So, do you have to go door-to-door in order to be saved? If you say yes, you are trusting in your own
works, and not in Jesus’ sacrifice. Don’t fear the congregation, but fear God. The Pharisees,
Catholics, and Jehovah’s Witnesses all have one thing in common: they have added endless amounts
of rules and laws to what God has said, and they trust in their ability to obey those laws for their
salvation. This is exactly what got Jesus Christ killed to begin with. Our righteousness is like filthy
rags to God (Isaiah 64:6). Trust in Christ alone for your salvation, and nothing else.

 

[PS95]

Your trinity god does not exist. It is satan posing to get worship. He is posing as ALL false gods to get worship.

Oh stop with the trinity blah blah blah will ya? I asked you to READ ROMANS 6
has nothing to do with trinity!! -----------------JUST READ IT

 

[Keiw]

Nope. You just added that in. Nowhere does it mention they trusted in Christ. That's actually what's completely missing.

Why is faith enough? Because the object of our faith is enough. And who’s the object of our faith? As
in what is our faith in? Jesus Christ. And since he is a sufficient Saviour to pay the sins of all those
who would trust in Him, why would you need anything else? Was Jesus incomplete with His
sacrifice? You may say, “I’ve got to do this and offer my good deeds, and hopefully that’ll be an extra
thing that’ll lead to my salvation”. That is really to say that Christ is not enough to save you, and
that’s an insult to Him. If we could be saved by our works, then Christ died for nothing (Galatians
2:21).

Jesus came to fulfil the law for us (Matthew 5:17), so that we may inherit His righteousness through
faith (Romans 10:4). And He came to die for our sins, so that we wouldn’t have to (2 Corinthians
5:21). Therefore, the only thing you need to be saved is repentance and faith, which produces good
works. James 2:18 is simply saying that true faith results in good works. James 2:23 even affirms how
Abraham was justified purely by faith and not by works. Yes, his faith caused him to do good works,
but the works played no part in him being counted as righteous, or being called a friend of God.
Simply it was his faith that was counted to him as righteousness. Him being willing to sacrifice Isaac
was actually 30 years after he was declared righteous, because in Genesis 22, when he was willing to
sacrifice Isaac, it was 30 years after Genesis 15, when he was declared righteous by God.

So, do you have to go door-to-door in order to be saved? If you say yes, you are trusting in your own
works, and not in Jesus’ sacrifice. Don’t fear the congregation, but fear God. The Pharisees,
Catholics, and Jehovah’s Witnesses all have one thing in common: they have added endless amounts
of rules and laws to what God has said, and they trust in their ability to obey those laws for their
salvation. This is exactly what got Jesus Christ killed to begin with. Our righteousness is like filthy
rags to God (Isaiah 64:6). Trust in Christ alone for your salvation, and nothing else.

No one doing all that in Jesus' name doesn't trust in Christ.
Jesus himself started the door to door work( Luke 10, Acts 20:20) It doesn't stop until the end( Matt 24:14)
If one asks a trinitarian--what is the good news of Gods kingdom-- one would get hardly any response even though the bible is filled with aspects of that good news. They are not taught the message the bible shows would be taught all the way until the end. Because those teachers do not listen to Jesus.

 

[Keiw]

Oh stop with the trinity blah blah blah will ya? I asked you to READ ROMANS 6
has nothing to do with trinity!! -----------------JUST READ IT

No. I wont listen to your twisting when you have no clue.

 

[hies]

No one doing all that in Jesus' name doesn't trust in Christ.
Jesus himself started the door to door work( Luke 10, Acts 20:20) It doesn't stop until the end( Matt 24:14)
If one asks a trinitarian--what is the good news of Gods kingdom-- one would get hardly any response even though the bible is filled with aspects of that good news. They are not taught the message the bible shows would be taught all the way until the end. Because those teachers do not listen to Jesus.

No one doing all that in Jesus' name doesn't trust in Christ? That's exactly what it means. They weren't trusting in Jesus' undeserved sacrifice for their salvation, but in their works.

And one would hardly get any response? Did you miss everything I just said to you?

Try actually reading what I said.

 

[PS95]

No. I wont listen to your twisting when you have no clue.

Keiw,
Thank you for saying you will not read Romans 6. It makes me terribly sad though. It's not me who twisted it. I just posted the verses so we could read them together. that's what you refused. It's plain to anyone who reads this. That's the saddest part Keiw. One day you may have to answer to Jesus for not reading it with me. I dont want that for you.
YOUR DEATH WONT GET YOU FORGIVENESS OF EVEN ONE SIN!
It is NOT about physical death and I think you know that by now.
I just hope that you come to grips with it and stop believing the men who say otherwise!
Again..

Please?
Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
10Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

I think that's enough to show the proper context, so JWs can see that Paul is not speaking about our physical deaths at all, but he is referring to our death to sin and rebirth to life in this present time!!!!

 

[PS95]

Try actually reading what I said.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Welcome to my nightmare. Not once yet.

 

[PS95]

Maybe trusting in their works, but some blind guide assured them they were saved and would get grace.

Keiw, DO YOU KNOW HIM? matt 7 Notice Jesus tells them he never knew them.
Do you know Him? Or know "about" HIM?

 

[Zao is life]

Faith is the human hand of the arm stretched out to receive from God's hand the gift that He has given us, i.e justification. Faith IN the One who justifies the ungodly, and in HIS work, will save us. If we do not believe, we are calling God a liar - which is the thing that condemns:

Christ paid the price, according to the scripture. The blood of Christ and the empty tomb proves it. Nothing we can do, nothing other than the blood of Christ and the empty tomb will ever prove that we belong to Him and that we are saved, if we believe. There is nothing more that we can add to it, because Christ died for us while we were sinners (Romans 5:8), and that is what saved us - Christ's death, and Christ's resurrection.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" -- John 5:4-5.

WHAT HUMAN EFFORT CANNOT DO

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, except it abide in the vine; no more can all of you, except all of you abide in me. I am the vine, all of you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me all of you can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." -- John 15:4-6.

|| But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, willful restrain: against such there is no law. || -- Galatians 5:22-23.

|| Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. || -- Romans 13:8-10.

Good works that are produced through faith in Christ alone are the fruit of the Spirit, the fruit of the Vine. Salvation is all of Christ, from start to finish (Philippians 1:6) and faith in Christ alone (John 3:18; 1 John 5:4-5) does not include faith in our own human effort.

Good works flow from faith in Christ and in His Word. Not the other way around. Our salvation and our justification does not depend upon us, but on Jesus the Messiah and upon His faithfulness to His Word and through our faith in His Word, because God's Word is truth.

To believe that it costs the believer something "to prove that we're saved" is adding human effort to Christ's finished work, and the one who does this is proving nothing except His lack of belief (faith) in the Word of God and the finished work of Christ.

The New Testament is teaching us that God has saved us. He has justified us by Christ's blood. Like in the case of Abraham, those who believe God are credited with Christ's righteousness. They are justified through their faith.

WHAT HUMAN EFFORT CAN DO

Peter wrote that God has "bestowed upon those who believe in Jesus precious and magnificent promises, so that by means of what was promised we may become partakers of the divine nature, after escaping the worldly corruption that is produced by evil desire."

Then he added:

2 Peter 1:4-8:
-- "For this very reason, make every effort to ADD to your faith:

Excellence, to excellence, knowledge; to knowledge, self-control; to self-control, perseverance; to perseverance, godliness; to godliness, brotherly affection; to brotherly affection, unselfish love."

Why add this?

"Because if these things are really yours and are continually increasing, they will keep you from becoming ineffective and unproductive in your pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately." -- 2 Peter 1:4-8

We cannot add our salvation or our justification through human effort, because it was all accomplished by Christ, but now, knowing that we are saved by Christ and justified by Christ through our faith (and not by human effort), for our own sake we should nevertheless make an effort to be diligent to add to our faith in Christ the list of things Peter mentioned above,

and we are doing so in order that we will kept from becoming ineffective and unproductive in our pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately.

Nevertheless when we bear fruit unto God we are not justified by our faith or by our works. We are justified through our faith IN Him and in the blood and resurrection which justified us - HIS blood and resurrection.

 

[Keiw]

No one doing all that in Jesus' name doesn't trust in Christ? That's exactly what it means. They weren't trusting in Jesus' undeserved sacrifice for their salvation, but in their works.

And one would hardly get any response? Did you miss everything I just said to you?

Try actually reading what I said.

Trusting in that sacrifice gets one no where without Obeying =gets one grace. One must have an accurate knowledge of truth= Every utterance( OT-NT) from God as Jesus said-Man MUST live by them( no pick and choose)--God only accepts worship in spirit and truth=John 4:22-24

 

[Keiw]

Keiw,
Thank you for saying you will not read Romans 6. It makes me terribly sad though. It's not me who twisted it. I just posted the verses so we could read them together. that's what you refused. It's plain to anyone who reads this. That's the saddest part Keiw. One day you may have to answer to Jesus for not reading it with me. I dont want that for you.
YOUR DEATH WONT GET YOU FORGIVENESS OF EVEN ONE SIN!
It is NOT about physical death and I think you know that by now.
I just hope that you come to grips with it and stop believing the men who say otherwise!
Again..

Please?
Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
10Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

I think that's enough to show the proper context, so JWs can see that Paul is not speaking about our physical deaths at all, but he is referring to our death to sin and rebirth to life in this present time!!!!

You seem to missed the facts. God has already passed judgement on sin= The wages of sin = death. He cannot or would not rejudge on those sins once the wages have been paid.

 

[Keiw]

Keiw, DO YOU KNOW HIM? matt 7 Notice Jesus tells them he never knew them.
Do you know Him? Or know "about" HIM?

I know the real Jesus. There are 4 different ones being taught on earth, 1 is real.

 

[Keiw]

Faith is the human hand of the arm stretched out to receive from God's hand the gift that He has given us, i.e justification. Faith IN the One who justifies the ungodly, and in HIS work, will save us. If we do not believe, we are calling God a liar - which is the thing that condemns:

Christ paid the price, according to the scripture. The blood of Christ and the empty tomb proves it. Nothing we can do, nothing other than the blood of Christ and the empty tomb will ever prove that we belong to Him and that we are saved, if we believe. There is nothing more that we can add to it, because Christ died for us while we were sinners (Romans 5:8), and that is what saved us - Christ's death, and Christ's resurrection.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" -- John 5:4-5.

WHAT HUMAN EFFORT CANNOT DO

"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF, except it abide in the vine; no more can all of you, except all of you abide in me. I am the vine, all of you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me all of you can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." -- John 15:4-6.

|| But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, willful restrain: against such there is no law. || -- Galatians 5:22-23.

|| Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. || -- Romans 13:8-10.

Good works that are produced through faith in Christ alone are the fruit of the Spirit, the fruit of the Vine. Salvation is all of Christ, from start to finish (Philippians 1:6) and faith in Christ alone (John 3:18; 1 John 5:4-5) does not include faith in our own human effort.

Good works flow from faith in Christ and in His Word. Not the other way around. Our salvation and our justification does not depend upon us, but on Jesus the Messiah and upon His faithfulness to His Word and through our faith in His Word, because God's Word is truth.

To believe that it costs the believer something "to prove that we're saved" is adding human effort to Christ's finished work, and the one who does this is proving nothing except His lack of belief (faith) in the Word of God and the finished work of Christ.

The New Testament is teaching us that God has saved us. He has justified us by Christ's blood. Like in the case of Abraham, those who believe God are credited with Christ's righteousness. They are justified through their faith.

WHAT HUMAN EFFORT CAN DO

Peter wrote that God has "bestowed upon those who believe in Jesus precious and magnificent promises, so that by means of what was promised we may become partakers of the divine nature, after escaping the worldly corruption that is produced by evil desire."

Then he added:

2 Peter 1:4-8:
-- "For this very reason, make every effort to ADD to your faith:

Excellence, to excellence, knowledge; to knowledge, self-control; to self-control, perseverance; to perseverance, godliness; to godliness, brotherly affection; to brotherly affection, unselfish love."

Why add this?

"Because if these things are really yours and are continually increasing, they will keep you from becoming ineffective and unproductive in your pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately." -- 2 Peter 1:4-8

We cannot add our salvation or our justification through human effort, because it was all accomplished by Christ, but now, knowing that we are saved by Christ and justified by Christ through our faith (and not by human effort), for our own sake we should nevertheless make an effort to be diligent to add to our faith in Christ the list of things Peter mentioned above,

and we are doing so in order that we will kept from becoming ineffective and unproductive in our pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately.

Nevertheless when we bear fruit unto God we are not justified by our faith or by our works. We are justified through our faith IN Him and in the blood and resurrection which justified us - HIS blood and resurrection.

The only ones that remain in Jesus' love and he calls friend=OBEY him-John 15:10-14. The same way Jesus remains in his Fathers love, he obeys him.

 

[PS95]

You seem to missed the facts. God has already passed judgement on sin= The wages of sin = death. He cannot or would not rejudge on those sins once the wages have been paid.

Yes, Keiw the wages of sin is death, but read the rest of the sentence!!!!!!!!!!! Now that you have skipped the WHOLE CHAPTER?!
okayyyyy talk about cherry picking. Ro 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, BUT the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sin wage = death. It is not you paying God.
It is God paying you your wages ( what you have earned) for sin. Do you see?!!!!! EVERLASTING DEATH is YOUR CHOICE if you reject HIS SON's SACRIFICE FOR YOUR SINS!!!
VS.
23b. the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You will be paid with death since you reject this ^^^^ HIS FREE GIFT!
He died for all of our sins <---- if you believe him. iF YOU WANT TO SAY IT'S NOT TRUE, THEN YOU CALL God a liar. --YOU CANT EARN THIS! IT'S FREE- A GIFT.. Jesus wanted to pay your debt!
IT'S SIMPLE. your CHOICE...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DEATH OR CHRIST. ~~~~~~~~~~~
Once you make that decision- GO THANK GOD FOR THE FREE GIFT OF HIS SON FOR YOUR SINS. be sure you have repented. Now ask GOD for His HOLY SPIRIT to help you.
( "even you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children-- how much more will God give the Holy Spirit to those who ASK?")