The social gospel?

[Episkopos]

Let me help you with your post.

@Episkopos .....You've posted many times now....that "The Cross is not About Forgiveness"..

The cross is about reconciling people to a holy God....by atonement, not forgiveness. Forgiveness means there is no available power to walk above sin. Those who are in UNBELIEF want forgiveness NOT holiness. Holiness requires faith.

And Today you told us that you do not believe the bible, because you said,

False. I believe the words of the bible. What I don't trust are commentaries and faulty translations of the bible.

Jesus didn't speak English
Paul didn't speak English

This might surprise you.

"English bibles are translations made by men with an agenda.""

All translators have an agenda. Human interpretation is inevitable where word choices are arbitrary. Anyone who has ever done a bible study knows that it is impossible to do a word study based on what translators decided to use. One must go back to the original text.

Now, you've stated that "english versions".. and you didn't omit even one.. so, this proves you trust NO English Bible. Not ONE.

MY trust is in God. You put your trust in men.

Cursed is he that trusts in men. Blessed is he that trusts in the Lord. (in the bible)

So, here is the issue you have... Once you do not hold the word of God, in Esteem, and do not trust it, then you only have "Greek" Texts, and "other Teachers"", who will inform your theology.

LOL. Those "Greek" texts ARE the bible. :)

This means that you are not using a Bible, when you are trying to teach... and Because you do not believe the Bible, as you feel its false "agenda" laden, that means that you would only receive Theology from people who also don't believe the bible....
So, now we have teachers who are not bible believers as your teachers, and thus you are their end product.

I teach the truth...I'm not a "bible" teacher...nor am I a bible salesman. I teach from the actual scriptures.

This explains why your Theology denies the Cross, insults it,

False You deny the cross and its purpose, instead, seeking to exploit what Jesus did for all mankind.

Because If God does not forgive them with Jesus's Blood and Death, then we die UNFORGIVEN, and then we have "died in our sins " as Jesus said, and then we will meet God as Judge, and not as Father.

There is a movie called "unforgiven". Again more Hollywood.

Dying in one's sins is not about being unforgiven. It means a person is NOT walking in resurrection power.

Sin is sin...no "forgiven" sin and "unforgiven" sin. Where is that in the bible?

 

[Behold]

…we long and are drawn to many things.

This is the Devil's work your are describing......, in the life of the Believer.

The Devil can't take you to hell, once you are born again... so, he'll work on what he can accomplish in your life, instead.

What is that, most of all?

FOCUS robbery.

He is after your FOCUS... as what you are focused on, is what you give your time to.. and what you give your time to, is your LIFE.

See, reader..

TIME is LIFE..........and what you spend your TIME DOING< is what you are Focused upon..... is what you are doing with your LIFE.

So, the Devil comes... to the believer, to ruin your faith with some Cross denying theology that causes your faith in Chris which is your walk of faith to be ruined, and he also wants to get your FOCUS off of God, off of Christ, off of the Bible, off of getting up everyday with a thankful heart toward God and a ready and willing desire to serve Him, all the time.

So, the Devil is the enemy of your FAITH, and then He's the "sidetrack" that is the WORLD, and He uses this to get your mind Focused on things of the world, and once you are then there goes your mind, your time, and your life.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The cross is about reconciling people to a holy God....by atonement, not forgiveness. Forgiveness means there is no available power to walk above sin. Those who are in UNBELIEF want forgiveness NOT holiness. Holiness requires faith.

Nonsensical

We are forgiven because of the price of atonement (the blood of christ)

Forgiveness is the power to walk above sin, if we are not forgiven, we have no power but in self. which is no power at all

Those who are in unbelief do not think they need forgiven, they think they are ok where they are.. and can walk worthy so that God will let them in.

 

[Episkopos]

The old man before regeneration…example Saul.

Yes! Saul was the Old Man and Paul was now called to win Christ...the New Man.

The New man fashioned in the likeness Of Christ.

Yes.

You said something we put on after we are crucified with Jesus to walk in Newness of Life…example Paul. Yes…take off the old and put on the New. Put these things far from you, put on the New man. I don’t think no one is disputing that.

Right. The difference is that it requires a supernatural miracle to "put off" the Old Man and a new miracle to "put on" the New Man.

How many are naked? Being clothed with NEITHER the Old Man or the New Man?

Go to Rev 3 and the church of the Laodiceans. Does Jesus accuse the believers there of being clothed or naked?

Think about it.

So we are in transition between putting off and putting on...as we seek the Lord to BUY the field that contains the treasure (New Man)

He referred to it as that old conversation. Saul. A waster. A destroyer. A blasphemer. In saying “they know how I was, what I did in persecution of the body of Christ”

Amen. The Old Man worked against Christ and His salvation.

But Paul still had another big step to take. The step INTO being covered by the New Man...which very few will do. Most remain naked, wretched, poor and blind.

How can Jesus see believers as naked? Not covered any longer by the Old Man...but also not yet being covered by the New Man. We are to PUT ON the New Man fashioned in the likeness of Christ. For that we need to go to the cross!!! For forgiveness? NO!!!! To be sanctified to partake of Christ's holiness. That we might be partakers of His holiness.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The he who is in you is God himself.. DO you believe this?

Yes. 2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes! Saul was the Old Man and Paul was now called to win Christ...the New Man.


Yes.


Right. The difference is that it requires a supernatural miracle to "put off" the Old Man" and a new miracle to "put on" the New Man.

How many are naked? Being clothed with NEITHER the Old Man or the New Man?

Go to Rev 3 and the church of the Laodiceans. Does Jesus accuse the believers there of being clothed or naked?

Think about it.

So we are in transition between outting off and putting on...as we seek the Lord to BUY the field that contains the treasure (New Man)

Amen. The Old Man worked against Christ and His salvation.

But Paul still had another big step to take. The step INTO being covered by the New Man...which very few will do. Most remain naked, wretched, poor and blind.

Paul believed God. and like abraham, it was accounted to him as righteousness.

This empowered paul to walk. and move,

It was based on the forgiveness of God as found on the cross..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. 2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Yes!

it is he at work in us that sanctifies us, as we allow him to work within us

 

[Behold]

The bible doesn't speak of the outer man?

"outer man" is your theology.. that is confusing the "old man of sin" with the death of the container that contains the spirit.

Whereas Paul speaking about the outward man, is this..

"The body is dead because of SIN"< and they are going to put it in the GRAVE or cremate it.

That is the "outward man".. that is perishing.

How do you know that this is what Paul is explaining?

Its because Paul told us that our "old man of sin, is crucified with Christ".

Its DEAD., and He told us to "reckon it dead", not to try to sanctify it or fight with it.. as you dont fight with a dead man., unless you dont understand that He's dead. @Episkopos.. and you certainly do not understand this at all..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But Paul still had another big step to take. The step INTO being covered by the New Man...which very few will do. Most remain naked, wretched, poor and blind.

Makes me think of: Luke 3:9-14 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [10] And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? [11] He answered and said unto them, He that has two coats, let him impart to him that has none; and he that has meat, let him do likewise. [12] Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? [13] And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. [14] And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Makes me think of: Luke 3:9-14 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [10] And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? [11] He answered and said unto them, He that has two coats, let him impart to him that has none; and he that has meat, let him do likewise. [12] Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? [13] And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. [14] And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Its interesting. when the jews Asked Jesus in John 6. what works may we do that we might do the work of God. What was jesus answer?

 

[Behold]

False. I believe the words of the bible. What I don't trust are commentaries and faulty translations of the bible.

That is not what you posted.

You posted that the english versions...ALL are man made "agenda'..

So, now you want to change your words, into "commentaries" and "faulty translations".

Yet that is your "damage control" re-do... commentary, and its : REJECTED as "FALSE"

 

[Episkopos]

That is not what you posted.

You posted that the english versions...ALL are man made "agenda'..

So, now you want to change your words, into "commentaries" and "faulty translations".

Yet that is your "damage control" re-do... commentary, and its : REJECTED as "FALSE"

More lies. All translations have a human agenda. You are as slippery as a snake but have no wisdom.

Instead of spreading falsehood upon falsehood...why don't you copy paste what I say...too honest?

 

[Episkopos]

Its interesting. when the jews Asked Jesus in John 6. what works may we do that we might do the work of God. What was jesus answer?

The work of God (not man) is to believe INTO Christ. No man can believe himself into Christ. That's the point of the verse.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe INTO him whom he has sent.

This verse is more deep than your understanding. It is the work of God that we believe INTO Christ. No man come to Christ unless the Father draw him.

If you think for one second that you can do the work of God for Him...you are under strong delusion.

 

[Episkopos]

"outer man" is your theology.. that is confusing the "old man of sin" with the death of the container that contains the spirit.

Whereas Paul speaking about the outward man, is this..

"The body is dead because of SIN"< and they are going to put it in the GRAVE or cremate it.

That is the "outward man".. that is perishing.

How do you know that this is what Paul is explaining?

Its because Paul told us that our "old man of sin, is crucified with Christ".

Its DEAD., and He told us to "reckon it dead", not to try to sanctify it or fight with it.. as you dont fight with a dead man., unless you dont understand that He's dead. @Episkopos.. and you certainly do not understand this at all..

Shallow indeed.

What do you make of this that Paul declares AFTER being liberated from the law at regeneration (in Romans 6)

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. Rom. 7:9

You are about to prove you have no idea what Paul is talking about.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The work of God (not man) is to believe INTO Christ. No man can believe himself into Christ. That's the point of the verse.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe INTO him whom he has sent.

Yes, and what was the context of these words. What did Jesus tell them that caused them to ask this question

This verse is more deep than your understanding.

Good God man, can you ever just respond to someone without acting like your the king? Is it to hard for you to actually hold a normal discussion with someone?

It is the work of God that we believe INTO Christ. No man come to Christ unless the Father draw him.

It is Gods work that we believ, plain and simple. what is that? is this not what Jesus mentioned first?

If you think for one second that you can do the work of God for Him...you are under strong delusion.

Well good thing I do not think this

But do you? Think about it for a minute, which one of us is trying to in self achieve salvation.

 

[Ritajanice]

The work of God (not man) is to believe INTO Christ. No man can believe himself into Christ. That's the point of the verse.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe INTO him whom he has sent.

This verse is more deep than your understanding. It is the work of God that we believe INTO Christ. No man come to Christ unless the Father draw him.

If you think for one second that you can do the work of God for Him...you are under strong delusion.

Excellent!!!...the whole post I understand!...Hallelujah and Amen!!

110% true, In Jesus Name...Amen!!

 

[Behold]

MY trust is in God. You put your trust in men.

I put my Faith in God and Christ and i only use Pauline Theology as my Teaching.
I also use Paul's life, His Ministry, as my lifestyle and spiritual example, as the NT Instructs.

Im a bible believer.
I would not be caught DEAD being anything else.

. Blessed is he that trusts in the Lord. (in the bible)

And which English Translation that you claim is " ALL man made agenda" do you trust?

So, as i said, you are in "damage control mode", because your own words, revealed you, once again.

Those "Greek" texts ARE the bible. :)

Actually its the Translations of very few of the 30 "extant" Koine Greek Texts, that are accepted , and are used to create Bibles.

I teach the truth...I'm not a "bible" teacher...nor am I a bible salesman. I teach from the actual scriptures.

The NT, of which you are not familiar, says...>>"Thy word is Truth". John 17

So, i am a NT teacher..... regarding strictly Pauline Theology. And i TEACH that the bible is the word of God, and "the word of God endures forever". 1 Peter 1

You're just a hyper bible critic who thought the K. Greek was the "originals" and in fact there are no Originals, other then the Apostles letters.

So, we see that you are also not informed regarding "manuscript evidence"..

False You deny the cross and its purpose,

Purpose of the The Cross, = Jesus The Christ shed His blood and died for the forgiveness of your sin, that you deny.

That's on you. @Episkopos , and hopefully one day you'll understand the value of the Cross of Christ, and then maybe you'll never again say that the Son of God is : "Whipping BOY".

There is a movie called "unforgiven". Again more Hollywood.

Clint Eastwood.
He won an Oscar

Dying in one's sins is not about being unforgiven.

One just has to believe that the staff here or some Mod that understands the Cross and the Sacrifice of Christ, is going to eventually read your Cross rejecting theology.... that insults Jesus and the Cross, and puts an end to it. @Episkopos

Sin is sin...no "forgiven" sin and "unforgiven" sin.

Jesus said, """"if you do not believe in me, you shall die in your sins". = so that is your sin never being Forgiven.

The Unpardonable sin, is the sin of dying "UNFORGIVEN"., never born again.

What is "unforgiven sin"? Its the person who was not saved by this....

A.) "Jesus came into the world to Save Sinners"..

And to save them, is to forgive all their sin, by His Death and Blood ON THE CROSS...., so that once their sin if forgiven, God can then join them as Spiritually born again, unto Himself.

Welcome to : Salvation
Its a "GIFT".

Remember.....Sin is the sickness, and Christ's death and Blood that forgives them all, is the CURE... for all eternity.

This is the "finished work of Jesus on the Cross"... He Shedding His blood and dying for the Sin of the world... ONE Believer at a time.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Excellent!!!...the whole post I understand!...Hallelujah and Amen!!

110% true, In Jesus Name...Amen!!

what was jesus comment which caused them to ask what they could do? ie the context?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So we are in transition between outting off and putting on...as we seek the Lord to BUY the field that contains the treasure (New Man)

I think your forgetting what is being put on is the Fruit of the Spirit. Christ walking in Paul…the Life Paul now lived in Christ was always toward others. The garments put on—the granted adornment of, He has given you power to become Sons, “we will gladly be weak, that you be made strong, and this we Hope, even your perfection.” If there is a higher calling in Christ …Pauls walk in Christ modeled the same steps as Christ who although He possessed all things He becomes poor so that many could be made rich toward God. So is higher, lower? Actually? In submission?

Those blind, naked and poor. Miserable. What I hear in His word is not to unclothe anything until He comes. I listen to proverbs at night and there is a lot in it about discretion and stealing away someone’s garment before it’s time. So much I think we may have attached a romantic notion to : Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Thinking it’s our digging for nuggets of gold. When we may have missed the beginning of “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter.”

And how men will come as “thieves” for sure and rob those in need and leave them naked and half-dead. But what I hear is the Love of Christ for the poor, blind and lost. The miserable. To prepare a way “so you be not caught unaware by the thief in the night” who comes indeed to steal, kill and destroy. I’ve thought a lot about why He said you know that day comes as a thief in the night. Personally, I think it’s robbery where it is said (claimed)to be God but comes to steal and unclothe so nakedness appears. (Steal no more) All the while God is moving to prepare to clothe …knowing we have need of clothing. I know no one probably sees it the same. But it’s like the verse where He is evil spoken of by some. And glorified by others. A thief comes to stare and laugh and mock at men, to look on their nakedness and shame. Who does that sound like? The accuser of the brethren? Loving to get men naked. But Christ said it Himself “I came so that they may have Life.” Personally I think it’s cruelty to unclothe any where Christ is not sown. But rather nourish the seed that grows into “Christ formed in you” and He will provide your clothing that no thief can steal away from you. Is God in opposition with Himself?

 

[Ritajanice]

This verse is more deep than your understanding. It is the work of God that we believe INTO Christ. No man come to Christ unless the Father draw him.

Sure is Epi, Praise God for that divine visitation, for without it we couldn’t believe in the Son.

We must be Born Of God’s seed...believing ain’t enough I’m afraid.

I won’t be answering those who don’t understand your post..pointless..we’re on different levels of spiritual understanding.

No good arguing it out, Im being led to ignore them...plus we had a warning from admin....it seems her warning hasn’t be adhered to..

Unfortunately there are a few who think we must believe as they do...not a chance....like you I can only go by the word of God...His divine Living word, who delivered me out of darkness into his magnificent light!