The social gospel?

[Behold]

The cross is not about forgiveness..it is about freedom from the bondage of sin, so that God doesn't have to keep forgiving us.

The Hebrew word for a release from debt is not the same word as for freedom. No, the release from debt is Shemitah. This is the sabbatical year where debt is forgiven. In Israel today that word means bankruptcy.

So when people think of being released from a debt, that is shemitah.


The word used to describe freedom (liberty) is not the same word. That word is "Deror" and is used to convey freedom from bondage...setting people free from jail. This is the word used by Jesus to proclaim the gospel. It is DEROR....not shemitah.

We know what a word means as it is used over many verses that give us a more accurate understanding.

Let's see how that word "deror" is used elsewhere.

Therefore thus saith the Lord; Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty (deror), every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbour: behold, I proclaim a liberty (deror) for you, saith the Lord, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. Jer. 34: 17

Now see how God sees liberty (deror)...God can set us free or He can proclaim a freedom of evil to do bad things to us.

How can anyone mistake the word liberty for forgiveness? God is using liberty as a vengeance. Does that sound like forgiveness to you?

And who confuses the "statue of Liberty" with a "statue of forgiveness"?

One must note the evil displayed in justifying sinful flesh.

Being bankrupt in the faith means a constant need for forgiveness. A person who is forgiven, who is not set free to walk in victory by grace through faith....becomes a transgressor.

For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. Gal. 2:18

How many times will we go bankrupt?

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. Gal. 2:17-18

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are ranting like a spoiled child instead of being mature enough to prove your assertion.

Here is the problem. silly comments like this. What kind of christian says things like this?

A discussion group doesn't include throwing tantrums when your favorite toy is taken away.

Then why do you continue to throw tantrums when it does not go your way?

If the class stopped shouting, I can PROVE that the gospel has been deviated away from the truth to serve the unruly flesh.

You have been trying to prove it for many years over many threads. you have failed miserably. why should we think you can do it now?

But for that one needs to pay close attention. Not just cry out heresy, blasphemy and whatever else a mob does.

Sorry my friend. trying to show the issues with what you believe is not wrong. As you said, that is what a chatroom discussion looks like.

The horrible and foolish behaviour witnessed here is a direct result of not understanding what grace does....or what the gospel is about.

Is that why you act the way you do. and others act the way they do?

 

[Behold]

The Hebrew word for

You do not read Hebrew, nor do you speak it. @Episkopos
So, when you try to correct the NT, with Hebrew, that you can't read or speak, then once again, the "FAKE", is being proven.
See, there is nothing more carnal then a person who is trying to correct the bible, or prove some strange theology, and you are trying to do it by presenting someone's definitions of a foreign language that you dont read or speak... And you certainly dont read or speak Hebrew Fluently.
So, this is "play acting" its "false" its "dishonest"... and its absolutely not related to real Christianity.

 

[Episkopos]

The Cross is where the Blood of Jesus meets the sin of Man, and the outcome is "Forgiveness" of sin".

As false as can be. Well the first part is correct. But the cross overcomes sin. The power of death applied to the part of us that sins....the outer man.

Have you read my post #686...which no honest person can disregard in content....just dishonestly disregard in responding in an honest way.

Who loves truth? Not many.

See, if your sin is not forgiven, you are not born again, and you will not go to heaven.

Valhalla? Go to heaven. When...in an afterlife? There was a movie called "All dogs go to heaven". Now Hollywood has a great influence on people....maybe you get the idea of "going to heaven" from them. Or I also think there is a heavy metal band record called "heaven and hell"...Maybe that influenced you. Or Islam that teaches heaven and hell.

It's hard to say where people get unbiblical ideas from.

Its interesting that you dont realize that what separates humanity from God, is unforgiven sin..

False. What separates us from God is sin. Period. Read the bible. There is no forgiven sin and unforgiven sin. There is just sin. God's mercy has ALWAYS been a factor in preserving mankind.

So, when you deny that Jesus's Cross is where this Forgiveness happens.. as...."Jesus is the one time Eternal Sacrifice for sin"... because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"...

A bad rendering. God did not make Jesus to be sin for us. We made Jesus to be sin for us. It was evil men. Are you calling God evil now?

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. God was NOT in Christ making Jesus sinful. You are confusing God with the schemes of the devil.. Hence your hostility to the gospel.

Then whatever it is you are trusting in, to forgive your lifetime of sin, has failed you... @Episkopos

I don't have a carnal agenda. And you can't assume others are as carnal as you are....at least not with any honesty.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

True dat Epi. It is a good thread and do not want to shut yet another thread down because of immature bickering, after getting the same ole same ole over and over again, it gets tiring and irritation so much that I don't want to spend my own time reading posts. I hope we will not have to shut it down.

is this not blasphemy?

The cross is not about forgiveness.

do we really believe the cross. the basis for eternal salvation, is not about forgiveness. and why would we want to support this thinking?

 

[Episkopos]

You do not read Hebrew, nor do you speak it. @Episkopos

A lie. I do both. All you can do is insult...no content...no truth...just insults and deviations. But can you engage the argument?

So, when you try to correct the NT, with Hebrew, that you can't read or speak, then once again, the "FAKE", is being proven.

False. You can read a Concordance can't you? It's in English. I challenge you to look up what I stated. Can you engage the argument and NOT insult?

See, there is nothing more carnal then a person who is trying to correct the bible, or prove some strange theology, and you are trying to do it by presenting someone's definitions of a foreign language that you dont read or speak... And you certainly dont read or speak Hebrew Fluently.
So, this is "play acting" its "false" its "dishonest"... and its absolutely not related to real Christianity.

I'm reading the bible. What's actually in it. Jesus condemned the lawyers, the scribes who made the word void by their traditions and interpretations.

And Jesus would do it again....and He is, through His servants. English bibles are translations made by men with an agenda. Even the Jews don't put targums (translations) on the same level as the "davar" word.

 

[Behold]

But the cross overcomes sin.

The Cross of Christ that you defined as "whipping boy"... is where the Sacrifice of Christ is offered as the forgiveness of Sin.

The "overcoming", is Jesus IN the born again believer, who is their power to overcome.

Its "Christ in YOU", in the Believer, that is the power to overcome.. .is this..

"CHRIST always gives me the Victory"............Paul says............and that is Christ "IN YOU" ..

The power of death applied to the part of us that sins....the outer man.

"Outer man" is some type of strange word play, that is your religious obsession.
That phrase is only found in your commentary set.
Its not found in a Bible.

It's hard to say where people get unbiblical ideas from.

You got yours from a few heretics.

See, thats the issue with man-made commentaries and books........ you'll end up just like you.

False. What separates us from God is sin.

Yes, as i said.
And that sin, has to be forgiven, and The Cross of Christ, is where God forgives the sin of everyone who will "believe".

How?

"Their FAITH, is counted by God as (Christ's Righteousness) and its at that moment that their sin is forgiven by the shed blood and death of Jesus on The Cross.

This is : Salvation 101, and you have denied it, quite a few times now. @Episkopos

We made Jesus to be sin for us.

That statement is incredibly theologically ignorant., as in fact its God who made Jesus to be sin for us., as this is Why God sent His only begotten.

"God hath made JESUS... to be SIN.. .for US".... "US"< is everyone, its "the World", its John 3:16, however, this Forgiveness is only applied, to one believer at a time.
\
Jesus told us that He laid His life down Freely, that no person took it from Him, and He has the power to raise Himself up from the Dead.

 

[Behold]

False. You can read a Concordance can't you? It's in English.

I'll instead study a NT, just the verses/... as that is Paul's requirement., and this way i can teach the scriptures, vs, trying to correct them with a concordance.

See, you play that game, and that is a slight part of your overall theological issue.

I'm reading the bible.

If you were reading the bible you would not be talking to me about your "concordance", and you would not be "cut and pasting" someone's Hebrew analysis.
Understand @Episkopos ???

English bibles are translations made by men with an agenda.

That is your reason to be a bible denying critic., as you just explained.
= Yes, i know.
You are not a "bible believer"., and im glad you explained to the Forum why you are not.
Maybe one of these staff/Mods will read what you've written and start connected the Dots, regarding you, and your reason to be on the Forum.
However, the worst issue, is that when you tell us that you have no faith in the word of God, as you just explained why,.. and then you try to constantly teach some odd theology..... = you've just shown us that you didn't get it from the Bible, and what is worse, is you are become the very one you use as your reason to not believe the Bible.
Your posts, your videos, your theology, is your AGENDA, and you just told us that you dont believe the Bible, because you believe its a man made agenda... Just LIKE YOURs.... @Episkopos

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yep! It's the kindness of God that draws us to repentance.

Much love!

Your post caught my attention this morning. Last night was a good night. Our daughter called and I could tell immediately she was crying. I’m thinking …oh no. As she started to talk she brought up thinking about all she’s been through and how there is no other way she can think of that she came through it without it being, God who got her through it. It’s too much to write. But she kept saying “I feel like I’m crazy…do you think I’m crazy?” She said there was no other way to describe it but she feels a strong draw …an pull…inside towards Him. Like a drawing she can’t resist or ignore. She voiced how life gets so busy she’s forgotten all that He’s done in her life. And how she sometimes grows weary and overwhelmed with sadness to not forget. It was an unusual call. We don’t often talk about it. Especially where she invites the conversation. But she kept voicing the same word you spoke of…drawn to Him. Now that I think about it as I’m typing this…we long and are drawn to many things. Drawn towards a crowd to be a part of that crowd. Drawn to things we’d like to have. Just thinking of when He turns our affection toward Him…drawing our eyes and longing toward Him. It makes me think of when He said “when you turn unto Me.”

 

[Episkopos]

The Cross of Christ that you defined as "whipping boy"... is where the Sacrifice of Christ is offered as the forgiveness of Sin.

The "overcoming", is Jesus IN the born again believer, who is their power to overcome.

Its "Christ in YOU", in the Believer, that is the power to overcome.. .is this..

"CHRIST always gives me the Victory"............Paul says............and that is Christ "IN YOU" ..



"Outer man" is some type of strange word play, that is your religious obsession.
That phrase is only found in your commentary set.
Its not found in a Bible.

The bible doesn't speak of the outer man? I write this for any honest people out there.

For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 2 Cor. 4

Then there is the reading comprehension, which you lack, and spiritual understanding which is totally absent.

Paul says...I delight in God's law in the inward man (inner man)...but there is still sin in him that overturns what he wants to do. Where is the sin? in the inner man? No. The outward, or outer man. After the outer man is crucified, the inner man is freed (deror) to walk in newness of life...by the Spirit.

Is the outward man the human body? As in if I cut off a few fingers my sins will disappear? No. The problem of sin is a spiritual one.

The inner man is regenerated by the Spirit. the outer is the husk that needs to fall to the ground and die to let out the life.

You got yours from a few heretics.

From the Holy Spirit you mean. I am taught by God.

See, thats the issue with man-made commentaries and books........ you'll end up just like you.

I don't follow humans...but Christ.

Yes, as i said.
And that sin, has to be forgiven, and The Cross of Christ, is where God forgives the sin of everyone who will "believe".

How?

You believe you are forgiven and therefore God is forced to grant you amnesty? See how that works out.

"Their FAITH, is counted by God as (Christ's Righteousness) and its at that moment that their sin is forgiven by the shed blood and death of Jesus on The Cross.

This is : Salvation 101, and you have denied it, quite a few times now. @Episkopos

Deception 101.

That statement is incredibly theologically ignorant., as in fact its God who made Jesus to be sin for us., as this is Why God sent His only begotten.

"God hath made JESUS... to be SIN.. .for US".... "US"< is everyone, its "the World", its John 3:16, however, this Forgiveness is only applied, to one believer at a time.
\
Jesus told us that He laid His life down Freely, that no person took it from Him, and He has the power to raise Himself up from the Dead.

All unbiblical opinions....and twisting of meanings...


It doesn't say "God made Jesus to be sin for us." That's from the nether regions. Rather, the bible says...

that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [a]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

That other verse doesn't have God making Jesus sin for us.

He was made to be sin by us, who knew no sin; that we might display the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21

 

[Episkopos]

I'll instead study a NT, just the verses/... as that is Paul's requirement., and this way i can teach the scriptures, vs, trying to correct them with a concordance.

See, you play that game, and that is a slight part of your overall theological issue.



If you were reading the bible you would not be talking to me about your "concordance", and you would not be "cut and pasting" someone's Hebrew analysis.
Understand @Episkopos ???



That is your reason to be a bible denying critic., as you just explained.
= Yes, i know.
You are not a "bible believer"., and im glad you explained to the Forum why you are not.
Maybe one of these staff/Mods will read what you've written and start connected the Dots, regarding you, and your reason to be on the Forum.
However, the worst issue, is that when you tell us that you have no faith in the word of God, as you just explained why,.. and then you try to constantly teach some odd theology..... = you've just shown us that you didn't get it from the Bible, and what is worse, is you are become the very one you use as your reason to not believe the Bible.
Your posts, your videos, your theology, is your AGENDA, and you just told us that you dont believe the Bible, because you believe its a man made agenda... Just LIKE YOURs.... @Episkopos

All insults NO content. No truth...therefore only attacks.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The bible doesn't speak of the outer man?

The outer man is the old man —that old conversation in and of the world, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, the pride of life which is not of the Father but of the world—the back biter, covenant of peace breaker, gossiper, strife, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness (not only getting drunk yourself but putting the bottle to our brothers mouth to get him drunk also so we can look on his shame) revilings, hatred, variance ….out of which comes all evil workings?
Galatians 5:22-26 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh (those above)with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Am I missing something? It’s straightforward…

 

[Episkopos]

The outer man is the old man —that old conversation in and of the world—-spoke of as the back biter, covenant of peace breaker, gossiper, strife, heresies envyings, murders, drunkenness (not only get drunk but putting the bottle to our brothers mouth to get him drunk so he can look on his shame) revilings, hatred, variance ….out of which comes all evil workings?
Galatians 5:22-26 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Am I missing something? It’s straightforward…

Actually not exactly. The bible compares like with like.

The Old Man is us BEFORE regeneration. Void of understanding of eternal things The NEW MAN is fashioned in the likeness of Christ. That is something we put on AFTER we are crucified to walk as Jesus walked. Most of us are in between these two poles. We are in a transition walk (wilderness).

The inner man is who we are in Christ....the regenerated part of us...the real us from the point of view of God and how we are created in HIS image. The outer man is the sinful covering that came into being AFTER the fall.

So then we compare. Old Man with New Man. And Outer Man with Inner Man

It's like people having the false comparison of heaven and hell. There is no such comparison in the bible. And these are not ultimate destinies. It is Heaven and Earth. Two realms.

 

[Behold]

All insults NO content. No truth...therefore only attacks.

Let me help you with your post.

@Episkopos .....You've posted many times now....that "The Cross is not About Forgiveness"..

And Today you told us that you do not believe the bible, because you said, "English bibles are translations made by men with an agenda.""

So....Now, you've stated that "english versions".. and you didn't omit even one.. so, this proves you trust NO English Bible. Not ONE.

So, here is the issue you have... Once you do not hold the word of God, in Esteem, and do not trust it, then you only have "Greek" Texts, and "other Teachers"", who will inform your theology.

This means that you are not using a Bible, when you are trying to teach... and Because you do not believe the Bible, as you feel its false "agenda" laden, that means that you would only receive Theology from people who also don't believe the bible....
So, now we have teachers who are not bible believers as your teachers, and thus you are their theological : end product.

This explains why your Theology denies the Cross, insults it, and this is why when you post comments about Jesus being "Whipping Boy", you have no sting of conscious at all when you insult Him this way, on a Public "christian" forum.
And because you have no faith or trust in the Bible... this would explain specifically why your negative concept regarding The Cross, informed your personal Salvation Testimony that has No Cross in it, and No forgiveness of your sin in it..

Always remember @Episkopos ,,, """"Christ died for our sins…was buried, and that He rose again the third day…” (1 Corinthians. 15:1-4)

See that?
That is Christ Forgiving all our sin, by" DYING FOR THEM".....

Why did He do that?
Because If God does not forgive them with Jesus's Blood and Death, then we die UNFORGIVEN, and then we have "died in our sins " as Jesus said, and then we will meet God as Judge, and not as Father.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Actually not exactly. The bible compares like with like.

The Old Man is us BEFORE regeneration. Void of understanding of eternal things The NEW MAN is fashioned in the likeness of Christ. That is something we put on AFTER we are crucified to walk as Jesus walked. Most of us are in between these two poles. We are in a transition walk (wilderness).

The inner man is who we are in Christ....the regenerated part of us...the real us from the point of view of God and how we are created in HIS image. The outer man is the sinful covering that came into being AFTER the fall.

So then we compare. Old Man with New Man. And Outer Man with Inner Man

It's like people having the false comparison of heaven and hell. There is no such comparison in the bible. And these are not ultimate destinies. It is Heaven and Earth. Two realms.

The old man before regeneration…example Saul.
The New man fashioned in the likeness Of Christ. You said something we put on after we are crucified with Jesus to walk in Newness of Life…example Paul. Yes…take off the old and put on the New. Put these things far from you, put on the New man. I don’t think no one is disputing that.

He referred to it as that old conversation. Saul. A waster. A destroyer. A blasphemer. In saying “they know how I was, what I did in persecution of the body of Christ”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your post caught my attention this morning. Last night was a good night. Our daughter called and I could tell immediately she was crying. I’m thinking …oh no. As she started to talk she brought up thinking about all she’s been through and how there is no other way she can think of that she came through it without it being, God who got her through it. It’s too much to write. But she kept saying “I feel like I’m crazy…do you think I’m crazy?” She said there was no other way to describe it but she feels a strong draw …an pull…inside towards Him. Like a drawing she can’t resist or ignore. She voiced how life gets so busy she’s forgotten all that He’s done in her life. And how she sometimes grows weary and overwhelmed with sadness to not forget. It was an unusual call. We don’t often talk about it. Especially where she invites the conversation. But she kept voicing the same word you spoke of…drawn to Him. Now that I think about it as I’m typing this…we long and are drawn to many things. Drawn towards a crowd to be a part of that crowd. Drawn to things we’d like to have. Just thinking of when He turns our affection toward Him…drawing our eyes and longing toward Him. It makes me think of when He said “when you turn unto Me.”

God is amazing!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All insults NO content. No truth...therefore only attacks.

You reading your posts again?

sorry. Why don;t you try practicing what you preach, instead of calling out people who talk to you like you talk to them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The old man before regeneration…example Saul.
The New man fashioned in the likeness Of Christ. You said something we put on after we are crucified with Jesus to walk in Newness of Life…example Paul. Yes…take off the old and put on the New. Put these things far from you, put on the New man. I don’t think no one is disputing that.

He referred to it as that old conversation. Saul. A waster. A destroyer. A blasphemer. In saying “they know how I was, what I did in persecution of the body of Christ”

Even fear not for He who is in you, is stronger than him who is in the world. I hear that to say …Fear not, for the New man is greater than that old man. Fear not, for He who is inward is greater than that which is outward and passing away.
Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The outer man is the old man —that old conversation in and of the world, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, the pride of life which is not of the Father but of the world—the back biter, covenant of peace breaker, gossiper, strife, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness (not only getting drunk yourself but putting the bottle to our brothers mouth to get him drunk also we can look on his shame) revilings, hatred, variance ….out of which comes all evil workings?
Galatians 5:22-26 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh (those above)with the affections and lusts. [25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Am I missing something? It’s straightforward…

Yes.

It is sometimes called the flesh.

You see when we left God through our sin, which separated us from God. the hole that was left, forced us to try to fill that hole. because it was part of our creation.

God created us because he wanted to serve us, to take care of our needs. But when that separation occurred. that could not happen.

So man spends a lifetime trying to fill that hole with anything he can in an attempt to find this peace. (sex, Drugs, Alcohol, Food. Money, Wealth, Fame anything we can) the problem is using those is like trying to fill you gas take with something other than gas. Your vehicle will nto run right, if at all. so you keep trying to find something to start it.

Like the drug addict who gets a momentary high, but then crashes, He needs to do that drug again, and he starts on a spiral downhill.. Which is the human condition.

Not unless that fellowship with God can be restored will we be able to fill that hole. Or our gas tank, with the proper fuel.

Thats what the cross is about. the forgives which comes via the cross restores that relationship. freeing God to fill that Hole. where he not only fill it, but fills it in excess. allowing us to take that love and share that love with others.

Which is the gospel. God loves us, and saves us

After we are saved, he empowers us to be like him (love others0 By loving us more than enough, in excess. so we can in turn love others as he loved us.

I hope this makes sense..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Even fear not for He who is in you, is stronger than him who is in the world. I hear that to say …Fear not, for the New man is greater than that old man. Fear not, for He who is inward is greater than that which is outward and passing away.
Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

The he who is in you is God himself.. DO you believe this?