No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?

[GracePeace]

Because not everyone who claims to be children are children.

The children are told to "remain"--they're there, but they're told to stay there.
The Galatians had already received the Spirit (Gal 3:1+).

God does not fail..

Who said God could fail?
If God says "if you do this, I will do this, but if you do that, I will do that" that is not God "failing".

 

[GracePeace]

Yet Christ said he would never leave nor forsake us.

Why do you deny the power and promises of God?

That is a directive to be satisfied with what you have, because you have what is greater--but that only pertains to righteous people, whereas the unrighteous will lose God's presence. If not, why did David cry out, after having sinned with Bathsheba, "Do not cast me away from Your Presence, and do not take Your Holy Spirit away from me!"?

 

[GracePeace]

Paul also said although the body is dead because of sin (right now) the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

I trust paul./ Will you?

LOL You don't trust Paul because you don't understand Paul.

 

[GracePeace]

I don't see 1 John 2:28 as a warning to genuine, born-again Christians, but a confirmation of who truly are God's children. How about a little context. In 1 John 2:24, we read - As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. That's a big IF which determines the outcome. Although the letter of 1 John is written to believers, this does not mean that EVERYONE in a group of professing believers must all be genuine believers.

Yeah, and we see the Galatians DID NOT "let that abide in [them] which you heard from the beginning", with the result they were "deserting God" (Gal 1:6) and were "cut off from Christ" after having received the Spirit (Gal 3:1+).

For example, in 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Did you see that? Another big IF that determines the outcome. IF they had been of us, they (not might have) but would have continued with us. In regard to 1 John 5:21, an idol can pertain to many things and can cause people to stumble, yet genuine believers have assurance of salvation. (1 John 5:11-13)

When God forgets someone's righteousness (in the NT, "faith is counted for righteousness"--He forgets they had faith), when He blots them out (Revelation 3), it becomes as though they were never saved at all.

In regard to Galatians 1:6, those who turn to a different gospel (and that is their final answer) demonstrate that their belief in the gospel was never firmly rooted and established from the start, just as we see in 1 Corinthians 15:2, in regard to those who believe in vain--without cause or without effect, to no purpose. Yet there are others who temporarily get sidetracked by legalistic teachers, as in Galatians 5:4. The present tense of the word "justified" here implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting sidetracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self-effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

1. They received the Spirit, so they were true believers.
2a. "The flesh" refers to righteous deeds produced by humans instead of ones produced by God.
2b. We know what Paul wants them to do instead of being under the Law, and it's not "Christ alone", it's "serve one another through love". That is "God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:17).

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, as for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

I didn't say they lost their salvation and it was a done deal. I said they are examples of the fact some people don't remain.

In regard to Romans 14:23 and Romans 8:1, I already explained to you that Romans 14:22-23 is not about God condemning born again Christians to hell. That is repulsive! Condemn here means condemns or judges themselves and other translations (vs 22) say - Blessed is the one who does not judge himself by what he approves/doesn’t feel guilty for what they do. In regard to Romans 8:1, there certainly is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, and not walking according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit is 'descriptive' of genuine born-again Christians who are in Christ. (Romans 8:9-10)

Your view on it was already debunked.

 

[GracePeace]

In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)

In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)

I will never understand these folks who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome.

You, Eternally Grateful, et al, and I have already had that discussion at length--at the end of it, after you all got debunked, you all just stopped interacting--and it is off topic.

Please remain on topic.

 

[GracePeace]

Everybody, let's stay on topic.

 

[mailmandan]

Yeah, and we see the Galatians DID NOT "let that abide in [them] which you heard from the beginning", with the result they were "deserting God" (Gal 1:6) and were "cut off from Christ" after having received the Spirit (Gal 3:1+).

When God forgets someone's righteousness (in the NT, "faith is counted for righteousness"--He forgets they had faith), when He blots them out (Revelation 3), it becomes as though they were never saved at all.

1. They received the Spirit, so they were true believers.
2a. "The flesh" refers to righteous deeds produced by humans instead of ones produced by God.
2b. We know what Paul wants them to do instead of being under the Law, and it's not "Christ alone", it's "serve one another through love". That is "God's righteousness revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:17).

I didn't say they lost their salvation and it was a done deal. I said they are examples of the fact some people don't remain.

Your view on it was already debunked.

It's your view that has already been debunked (multiple times) and there is just no getting through to you at all. It's impossible to convince people of anything whose minds are already made up.

 

[GracePeace]

It's your view that has already been debunked (multiple times) and there is just no getting through to you at all. It's impossible to convince people of anything whose minds are already made up.

We each have our view.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The children are told to "remain"--they're there, but they're told to stay there.
The Galatians had already received the Spirit (Gal 3:1+).

how could they have recieved the spirit if they were what Paul called fools. who believed a different gospel.

Who said God could fail?

You do

God said he will complete the job.. You claim he could fail

If God says "if you do this, I will do this, but if you do that, I will do that" that is not God "failing".

Well thats just it and proves my point

Salvation is not an if you do this I will do that

Salvation is a YOU CAN:T DO THIS, so I will do that (save you)

This most likely is your problem. you have not failed to come to an end of yourself yet. You still think you can save yourself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is a directive to be satisfied with what you have, because you have what is greater--but that only pertains to righteous people, whereas the unrighteous will lose God's presence. If not, why did David cry out, after having sinned with Bathsheba, "Do not cast me away from Your Presence, and do not take Your Holy Spirit away from me!"?

there are non righteous no not one

Continue to try to save yourself. But please do not try to take others with you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL You don't trust Paul because you don't understand Paul.

Oh I trust him, and God

Thats why I do not twist what he says to fit my belief system.

when will you trust God?

 

[Taken]

All I see is screaming, ranting, emotion, emptiness.
Why not just give a succinct answer?

All you reveal is you being steeped in things “OF” this world, wholly incapable or prepared to Receive Gods Spiritual Understanding…

But must admit, your most Juvenile worldly amusing thing… is whining about those BIG SCARY LETTERS, that the world told you is SCREAMING without sound. Ha, ha.

 

[GracePeace]

All you reveal is you being steeped in things “OF” this world, wholly incapable or prepared to Receive Gods Spiritual Understanding…

But must admit, your most Juvenile worldly amusing thing… is whining about those BIG SCARY LETTERS, that the world told you is SCREAMING without sound. Ha, ha.

Sounds nice.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You, Eternally Grateful, et al, and I have already had that discussion at length--at the end of it, after you all got debunked, you all just stopped interacting--and it is off topic.

Please remain on topic.

You have not debunked Anyone

You have just made yourself look bad again, so we have done our part. we will leave you be.

 

[GracePeace]

You have not debunked Anyone

You have just made yourself look bad again, so we have done our part. we will leave you be.

Sounds great, actually. LOL
You literally ask the same questions that have been answered year after year, whereas I keep finding more and more evidence against your views.

 

[GracePeace]

All you reveal is you being steeped in things “OF” this world, wholly incapable or prepared to Receive Gods Spiritual Understanding…

But must admit, your most Juvenile worldly amusing thing… is whining about those BIG SCARY LETTERS, that the world told you is SCREAMING without sound. Ha, ha.

Just respond to the topic.

 

[Taken]

The children are told to "remain"--they're there, but they're told to stay there.
The Galatians had already received the Spirit (Gal 3:1+).

Galatians were a GROUP of PEOPLE all INDIVIDUALLY Believing (as they with ANY GROUP )Individually Chose.

Some were LECTURED being FOOLS, making FOOLISH choices…Some were REMINDED Abraham IS their Father, “IF” they be “IN” Christ.

It matter NOT WHAT “GROUP” an individual is “associated” with…THEY “individually” must Freely make their “commitment” unto the Lord God.

Your pretense that ALL of the people of Galatian were “SAVED”, “BORN AGAIN”…is NOT Scriptural, is Laughable on it’s face, is as silly as “one who CLAIMS”, “all Christians” ARE “saved and born again”… they are NOT!

Gal 1.
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Obvious FOOLISH are NOT IN Christ)

[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(Obvious FOOLISH is believing, receiving Gods Spirit is by the Law, or because they HEARD scripture.)


[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

AND? BY DEFAULT, “they which ARE NOT” Believing IN GOD…
“ Are NOT INCLUDED, ARE EXCLUDED”.

 

[GracePeace]

Galatians were a GROUP of PEOPLE all INDIVIDUALLY Believing (as they with ANY GROUP )Individually Chose.

Some were LECTURED being FOOLS, making FOOLISH choices…Some were REMINDED Abraham IS their Father, “IF” they be “IN” Christ.

It matter NOT WHAT “GROUP” an individual is “associated” with…THEY “individually” must Freely make their “commitment” unto the Lord God.

Your pretense that ALL of the people of Galatian were “SAVED”, “BORN AGAIN”…is NOT Scriptural, is Laughable on it’s face, is as silly as “one who CLAIMS”, “all Christians” ARE “saved and born again”… they are NOT!

Gal 1.
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(Obvious FOOLISH are NOT IN Christ)

[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(Obvious FOOLISH is believing, receiving Gods Spirit is by the Law, or because they HEARD scripture.)


[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

AND? BY DEFAULT, “they which ARE NOT” Believing IN GOD…
“ Are NOT INCLUDED, ARE EXCLUDED”.

1. Your answer is "they weren't true believers", but Paul debunks that when he says "You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?" (Gal 5:7).
2. Please respond to the topic--Romans 8:1 and Romans 14:23.

 

[Taken]

Just respond to the topic.

Uh…you have no authority over me to dictate what I may or may not respond to.

 

[GracePeace]

Uh…you have no authority over me to dictate what I may or may not respond to.

Well, in a discussion, it is expected that the topic be discussed.
You can be a brute, and rampage all over the place.
I don't have the "authority" to stop that. You're right.
I would expect Christians to behave differently though.