No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
earning salvation is earning salvation. Having the right idea is nt earning salvation. Not sure where this even comes from
we earn a wage, By working
We earn a reward, by working hard, and doing what is required ot Recieve the reward.
A gift is freely given, it is nt paid for by the receiver, and it can not be used as a means to get something from the receiver, if so, it is not a gift, it is a reward (in the case of trying to get something from the recieve to keep it. We call that a down payment for work
The gospel is good news
1. We are sinners
2. Since we have sinned, we owe God a debt (the wage of sin is death)
3. but God in his infinate came to earth. Fulfilled the law by never sinning, (something the first adam failed to do) and in this, suffered the death if the cross. So he could redeem the world to himself
4. Based on this death, he is offering al mankind the gift of eternal life. Its a gift, it is by grace that we are saved (it cannot be earned)
5. Since it can never be earned not received, it can never be unearned or lost.
6. Jesus said he so loved all mankind he came, not to judge the world. But that the world might be saved, so he would be lifted n the cross. Anyone who recieves that gift in faith will never die, and they will recieve eternal life.
eternal life is eternal. If someone says it can be lost. It then becomes conditional.
It does not matter what we believe, what matters is who do we trust.
do you trust God. And are you confident that he who began a good work will complete It
or will you trust self. With no faith that the one who began a good work will complete it, but that you have to complete it yourself through works, through the way you obey, or the fact you do not fall back into sin. Or for any other reason
there is only one gospel. A legalist, a licentious and a grace based receiver are not all saved.. Only one of the three are saved. The other two have yet to repent fully and come to the cross. And allowed God to completely save them. Something he promised to do. As he said, it is finished. He did everything that was required. Thats his gift to you and me, will we recieve his gift. Or say yes, i will recieve it, but you have to let me do some work also (human reasoning) i can not believe you will just give it to me.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He should
God promised he would complete it
if you think God can fail. he is not a very good God then.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If sin can keep us from God as you claim, then the spirit could never be alive in Christ, while the body is dead in sin, the spirit and body would suffer the same fate
Paul says we are one spirit with Christ.
The body of sin was put to death, brought to nothing (Ro 6:6)--we literally died with Christ, or else the Jewish believer wouldn't have been set free from his obligation to keep Torah (Ro 7:1-6).
Taken
Well-Known Member
You are in ERROR..
You IGNORE the DIFFERENCE between:
Belief IN Jesus without a commitment…
(SHALL BE SAVED “IF” they continue belief to the day they mortally die.)
Belief IN Christ with a commitment to Him.
(ARE SAVED).
Act 20:
[32] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified..
Acts.26
[18] To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
1 Cor.1
[2] Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Cor.6
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Heb.2
[11] For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb.10
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Jude.1
[1] Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Them that “ARE Sanctified”….applies to ONLY THEM that “ARE (past tense) Sanctifi-ED (past tense)…
THEY “ARE” Crucified with Christ.
THEY “ARE” Accounted Bodily Dead.
THEY “ARE” “IN” Christ.
THEY “ARE” Forgiven.
THEY “ARE” Made perfected “IN” Christ.
THEY “ARE” Deliever-ED
THEY “ARE” Bodily cleansed.
THEY “ARE” Sanctified (set APART)
THEY “ARE” soul saved.
THEY “ARE” spirit quickened (born again)
THEY “ARE” a new creature.
THEY “ARE” Christ’s Church Members.
THEY “ARE” with the Lord God Forever.
THEY “SHALL” be Raised up WHEN the Lord signals HIS Angel to signal His Church to rise up to meet Him in the Clouds.
1 Thes. 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
THOSE, WHO ARE NOT THOSE ^^ Things, “ARE NOT COMMITTED”…
“HAVE NOT” been MADE WHOLE…
“ARE WARNED, to continue Believing UNTIL the day of “THEIR” bodily death….
“SO THEN” they may be SAVED…and THAT God will raise them…(ie bring with Him).
1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
*******
Matt 10:
[22] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Matt.24
[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark.13
[13] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark.16
[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Those “IN”Christ “DO” forever REMAIN, “WITH” Christ….They “IN”Christ ARE “KEPT IN”Christ….BY the Power of God…to which NO OTHER POWER IS GREATER THAN HE WHO IS “IN” A MAN.
Those WHO believe, and KEEP their BELIEF, by “their OWN POWER”… THEY have the greatest CHALLENGE…because THEY ARE the WEAKEST…and the easiest to influence…
AND
FYI…there ARE power seated wicked men who influence and threaten and fear monger the WEAK, there ARE ignorant famous entertainers who influence the WEAK, there ARE sports figure who influence the WEAK, and there ARE fallen angels who seek out to influence the ignorant and the WEAK…
The WEAK are EASY TARGETS to lead them into Temptations.
Glory to God,
Taken
If all without exception remain why are "children" warned to "remain" (1 Jn 2:28), and to abstain from idols (1 Jn 5:21)?
How were the Galatians "deserting God" (Gal 1:6) and "cut off from Christ" (Gal 5:4)?
How is the Christian who sins "condemned" (Ro 14:23) if there's "no condemnation" in Christ (Ro 8:1)?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Ritajanice
Born-Again
No idea, I just thought I would point that scripture out....are you aware of why he said that?
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I don't see 1 John 2:28 as a warning to genuine, born-again Christians, but a confirmation of who truly are God's children. How about a little context. In 1 John 2:24, we read - As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. That's a big IF which determines the outcome. Although the letter of 1 John is written to believers, this does not mean that EVERYONE in a group of professing believers must all be genuine believers.
For example, in 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. Did you see that? Another big IF that determines the outcome. IF they had been of us, they (not might have) but would have continued with us. In regard to 1 John 5:21, an idol can pertain to many things and can cause people to stumble, yet genuine believers have assurance of salvation. (1 John 5:11-13)
In regard to Galatians 1:6, those who turn to a different gospel (and that is their final answer) demonstrate that their belief in the gospel was never firmly rooted and established from the start, just as we see in 1 Corinthians 15:2, in regard to those who believe in vain--without cause or without effect, to no purpose. Yet there are others who temporarily get sidetracked by legalistic teachers, as in Galatians 5:4. The present tense of the word "justified" here implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting sidetracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self-effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.
If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, as for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
In regard to Romans 14:23 and Romans 8:1, I already explained to you that Romans 14:22-23 is not about God condemning born again Christians to hell. That is repulsive! Condemn here means condemns or judges themselves and other translations (vs 22) say - Blessed is the one who does not judge himself by what he approves/doesn’t feel guilty for what they do. In regard to Romans 8:1, there certainly is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, and not walking according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit is 'descriptive' of genuine born-again Christians who are in Christ. (Romans 8:9-10)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Paul also said although the body is dead because of sin (right now) the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
I trust paul./ Will you?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yet Christ said he would never leave nor forsake us.
Why do you deny the power and promises of God?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)
In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)
I will never understand these folks who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I think alot of it has to do with anti-calviunist syndrome. assuming eternal security is a calvinist doctrine, so it must be fought at all cost..In John 10:27-28, we read - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear His voice and some of them don't hear His voice) and I know them, (not some of them He knows and some of them He doesn't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow Him and some of them don't follow Him) And I give them eternal life, (not some of them He gives eternal life and some of them He doesn't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of His hand and some of them will be snatched out of His hand)
In CONTRAST with those do not believe and are not His sheep. (John 10:25-26)
I will never understand these folks who seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome.
it comes down to we are arguing against words of men, and stop discussing words of the bible, and when we do this, we are unable to even see what the others really believe..
Taken
Well-Known Member
I have said why.
To understand WHY, requires paying attention to WORDS and understanding of what WORDS mean and do not mean.
God IS Spirit.
God HAS a Body.
God HAS a Soul.
ALL Souls Belong to God.
Gods Spirit IS, invisible, Supreme Power, Supreme Knowledge, Supreme Wisdom, Absolute Truth.
God HAS A Spiritual MIND, (Knows ALL Knowledge, All Truths, All Lies.)
Mankind IS a body.
Mankind HAS a “natural” spirit.
Mankind HAS a soul.
All Body’s Shall, Must Die.
A “natural” spirit is a mans “natural” (learned and believed TRUTH IN the thoughts of. His Heart).
Mankind has a Carnal MIND.
A “Carnal Mind”, believes, truths and lies.
A “Carnal Mind”, CAN BE “easily convinced, fooled, tricked INTO believing “LIES” as “TRUTHS”.
* A “Carnal Mind”…”naturally” Tends to BELIEVE… the Words of AN OTHER, WHOM, the individual … TRUSTS
Briefly…
* WITH…..means associate
* IN………..means occupy
* TRUST…means absolute agreement
* BELIEF…means appears/seems
* OATH….means declaring by WORD absolute agreement.
* SURRENDER…means declaring by Physically Giving one’s BODY to an OTHERS absolute Control. (According TO the OTHERS, order, way, means, manner).
WHEN a man is WITH a female…they are associating.
WHEN God is WITH a human…they are associating.
WHEN a man is NOT WITH a female…they are NOT associating.
WHEN God is NOT WITH a human…they are NOT associating.
WHEN a man OATHS to WED, MARRY a female…he DECLARES by “his WORD” to BE “WITH” her FOREVER.
SUCH a man CONFIRMS his OATH, (his WORD), by entering “IN’ her, (copulation).
The female, also makes an Oath, by her WORD.
The female, Confirms her Oath, by SURRENDERING thus, Agreeing for the man to ENTER “IN” her.
God OFFERS all of mankind a SIMILAR CHOICE…
All of manKIND, has the FREEWILL, the LIBERTY, to ACCEPT Gods OFFERING…or REJECT Gods OFFERING. (According to:
Gods order, way, means, manner.)
God HAS Offered manKind…
An order, way, means, manner…
“TO Associate / BE WITH” God…
And in-turn, God “Be WITH” that individual.
Order, way, means, manner…
be “WITH” God today, He will be “WITH” you.
Ditto, the next day,
Be “without” God…ditto, He NOT, “with” you.
Repeat, Repeat, Repeat.
Same AS a man, WITH his Wife, (goes to job), not WITH Wife.
Regarding a MARRIED man (husband) and female (wife) physically, have an EXCLUSIVE
Confirmed, and Agreed (by both) … SEALED agreement, ONLY that man entered “IN” her.
Such a man (husband) and female (wife)…
CAN (by their own power), KEEP their Oath…
OR, cheat, lie, deceive one another, or AGREE to VOID their Oath, and Separate…
(Not be one WITH the other)…and (the Husband NOT be IN the Wife).
Regarding God…and a human…
So also can they be WITH…be WITH-OUT…be WITH…be WITH-OUT….
However….ONCE a human AND God make an Oath, an Agreement, FOR GOD’S (SPIRIT) to ENTER…. IN … that individual…
it IS A FOREVER SURRENDERING of that human
There is NO decree, option to VOID, divorce, leave, undo, THAT SURRENDERING…
THAT “oathed, vowed, freely agreed, SURRENDERING” of that individuals BODY, being SURRENDERED unto God…
THAT BODY, BECOMES Gods…
“Inheritance” …
No Different than when a human man IS given and receives his own lawful “Inheritance”… That “inheritance” IS Forever his.
Gods “inheritance”, is lawfully “established” ONCE Gods SPIRIT ENTERS “IN”…a human.
Learn the difference Between…..
“WITH”….and….”IN”.
Once Gods Spirit, enters “IN” a human…
Forever…God SHALL, be “WITH” that human.
That “human” has Lawfully Become Gods “inheritance”…
Gods “inheritance” IS His Alone, that NO OTHER has Claims to Gods “inheritance”.
No OTHER, has the Authority, Power, to Claim, Take, Receive, Gods “inheritance”.
God “claims”, takes, receives His “inheritance”…
(Similar as a man does…)
AFTER a Bodily has BEEN surrendered to Him…and a Death has Occurred!
* Crucified with Christ…ring a bell?
* Death bed confessions, surrenders…ring a bell?
* Mortals Confessing Belief, willingly bodily dying FOR their Belief…(during the Last days tribulations from Heaven)…ring a bell?
* Refusing Belief, denying, bodily dying, foretold, separated, condemned WITHOUT God forever…ring a bell?
Assured, Guaranteed, WITH God forever, ONLY occurs…
AFTER a man confesses Belief.
AFTER God forgives the man for HAVING HAD unbelief.
AFTER God restores (saves) that mans soul.
AFTER a bodily Death…
AFTER Gods Spirit enters IN that man.
AFTER God gives that man a New Heart (circumcision)
AFTER God Plants HIS SEED in that new Heart.
AFTER Gods SPIRIT Births that man A NEW SPIRIT…
THEN SHALL …Gods Spirit and that mans NEW SPIRIT BE TOGETHER FOREVER.
THEREAFTER…on a day, unknown to man…
SHALL God come to REDEEM, TAKE, CLAIM, RECEIVE unto Himself….His Inheritance.
So, YES…with, without, with, without…without, without, without…IS possible, IS a likelihood, IS A WARNING…
UNTIL SUCH TIME…
The SPIRIT of God……IS “IN” a man.
Glory to God,
Taken
All I see is screaming, ranting, emotion, emptiness.
Why not just give a succinct answer?
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